loose all my gains after pct cycle

**judoguy** · 05-27-2017, 11:26 AM

hi guys, its been a while , i turn 50 next month, just came off lets say 3rd cycle, went from 180 pds back down to my misserable 168 pds, i cant even go on the scale or look in the mirror without feeling like crying, i was looking great feeling strong, was on about 4 months , and my busy work shedule started so i figure 4 months is about it so i did the whole hcg thing and clomid ect ect, i realize that i was probably retaining a bit of water, but mass is way down, now one of my pals at the gym , stays on test peranently, just at low dosages, but im not sure i want to shut the balls down permanenly and have to pin for the rest of my life, another one of my friends is a long time ibbf pro and he told me once every cycle can produce 2-5 pounds mass that you may be able to retain, but the way its seems to be going is i gain then i loose, so how the hell do you still keep the size without coming off cycle or is this not possible, how is for the pro,s do they ever come off, or cruize for a bit, is it not supposed to be 3 months on and 3 months of, if so i cant see getting to a decent size ever at this point, appreciate any advise, thanks ,loosing my mind here !!

**kelkel** · 05-27-2017, 12:15 PM

Hey Judo!

First, I'd suggest getting full blood work done. Use the list in the Finding A Doc sticky in the HRT Forum. You probably are a TRT candidate already and if so, optimizing your hormones with a solid protocol will make a tremendous difference in making gains and keeping them. PCT is bad enough on young guys but if you already have lower T levels it's even worse. If you have BW, post it up please.

Step two is nutrition and training. For every pound of newly built muscle you have to eat sufficient calories to maintain it. It's common for guys when going through pct and after to lose some interest in training and nutrition. Lost motivation then means losing gains. An old adage used around here frequently is that if you're a 180 lbs man and want to be a 200 lb man then you have to eat like a 200 lb man. Otherwise, gains are lost.

When it comes to "shutting your balls down" if you initiate a TRT protocol (if needed) then you implement HCG along with it. This maintains testicular function.

**judoguy** · 05-27-2017, 12:54 PM

kool , thanks ! let me digest this, you are correct i went from 6 days a week at the gym to about 3 days, could not get into it the same, plus i lost my training buddy, food slacked as well, i get blood work done occasionally ,my dr says my test levels are normal ,that was the last go however, the thing i have with that is ,you would have to know what the original number was b4 even using test, or that of when i was 20 years old, i went to a trt dr, and the guy was a total dbag and would not help me as my rbc count was still too high, i figured rather than dealing with that BS ,i would just get hooked up with my friends supply and do my own trt therapy, the question that comes to mind is with every cycle does your natural t level continuously go down or does it just maintain a low level, i have wondered about that for a while now

**Obs** · 05-27-2017, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Hey Judo!

First, I'd suggest getting full blood work done. Use the list in the Finding A Doc sticky in the HRT Forum. You probably are a TRT candidate already and if so, optimizing your hormones with a solid protocol will make a tremendous difference in making gains and keeping them. PCT is bad enough on young guys but if you already have lower T levels it's even worse. If you have BW, post it up please.

Step two is nutrition and training. For every pound of newly built muscle you have to eat sufficient calories to maintain it. It's common for guys when going through pct and after to lose some interest in training and nutrition. Lost motivation then means losing gains. An old adage used around here frequently is that if you're a 180 lbs man and want to be a 200 lb man then you have to eat like a 200 lb man. Otherwise, gains are lost.

When it comes to "shutting your balls down" if you initiate a TRT protocol (if needed) then you implement HCG along with it. This maintains testicular function.

I thought about replying to this post earlier. I enjoy watching you do it more.
Solid advice as always.

By the way judoguy, that ised to be my avatar on another forum ten years ago. Solid choice, welcome to the forum.

**kelkel** · 05-27-2017, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by judoguy

kool , thanks ! let me digest this, you are correct i went from 6 days a week at the gym to about 3 days, could not get into it the same, plus i lost my training buddy, food slacked as well, i get blood work done occasionally ,my dr says my test levels are normal ,that was the last go however, the thing i have with that is ,you would have to know what the original number was b4 even using test, or that of when i was 20 years old, i went to a trt dr, and the guy was a total dbag and would not help me as my rbc count was still too high, i figured rather than dealing with that BS ,i would just get hooked up with my friends supply and do my own trt therapy, the question that comes to mind is with every cycle does your natural t level continuously go down or does it just maintain a low level, i have wondered about that for a while now

Well, to many docs just being in range makes you normal. Even if you're at the bottom of the range and honestly, who wants to be there? Labcorps range is 348-1197. You may be sitting at 350 and you're doc calls that normal. That's BS. It may be normal but it's definitely not optimal. It would be prudent to maintain your own copies of BW from this point forward. I would also stop by your doctors office and obtain a copy of your most current BW.

Knowing your T level when you were twenty is kinda irrelevent at this point. We need to worry about what it is now when post pct and off cycle for a couple months. If possible request BW with your doc and be sure to include LH and FSH which show pituitary function. Cortisol, prolactin and a thyroid panel would be great as well as they can impact T levels.

Know that your T levels can begin to slowly drop in your 30's. Then add in many other issues that can impact endogenous T production as well. Even head or testicular trauma. It's why blood work is so important. The doctor who would not put you on T due to your RBC's actually did you a favor. Adding test to already elevated RBC is not prudent either for you or his medical license. Hopefully you've donated blood since then as polycythemia can be quite dangerous.

And yes, cycling can eventually lower T levels over time. You're shutting down your HPTA which is not meant to be shut down, then restarting it over and over again. Some can cycle for decades with minimal impact. Others can severely impact their endogenous T production with one cycle. It's always a crap-shoot.

**judoguy** · 05-27-2017, 10:29 PM

i got polcythemia first go ,it was not good ,dr sent me to cancer clinique 2 days in a row to dump blood ,i was at danger level, now i donate every couple months to prevent that from getting out of hand, i will definitely heed your advise, i go see my dr in a couple weeks , will get a copy of previous bloodwork, and will arrange for another bloodwork, then i will post ,and see where we are at, i will ask you guys for advise on that for sure , i thought i had a handle on things but getting answers for this stuff is limited except on this site, as always,i am grateful for all the great help,hopefully talk soon

**judoguy** · 05-28-2017, 07:12 AM

thanks man, i probably stole avatar from you ! LOl ! i have yet to find a better one to use, any advise is appreciated , i still have alot to learn, should have taken off cycle more seriously , i have a really cool old dr, he will always help me , but what he wont do is moniter a cycle he will only deal with the aftermath , there is a line he will not cross , we will get this right yet, im not giving up ,thanks talk soon

**kelkel** · 05-28-2017, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by judoguy

i got polcythemia first go ,it was not good ,dr sent me to cancer clinique 2 days in a row to dump blood ,i was at danger level, now i donate every couple months to prevent that from getting out of hand, i will definitely heed your advise, i go see my dr in a couple weeks , will get a copy of previous bloodwork, and will arrange for another bloodwork, then i will post ,and see where we are at, i will ask you guys for advise on that for sure , i thought i had a handle on things but getting answers for this stuff is limited except on this site, as always,i am grateful for all the great help,hopefully talk soon

Stay on top of your RBC's but always keep in the back of your mind your Iron levels. As we age frequent donations can effect them and lead to anemia.

**Obs** · 05-28-2017, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by judoguy

thanks man, i probably stole avatar from you ! LOl ! i have yet to find a better one to use, any advise is appreciated , i still have alot to learn, should have taken off cycle more seriously , i have a really cool old dr, he will always help me , but what he wont do is moniter a cycle he will only deal with the aftermath , there is a line he will not cross , we will get this right yet, im not giving up ,thanks talk soon

If you are past your genetic potential you would lose any gains you earned with aas, eventually, anyway.
Trt will probably (it will) help you hold gains. I cannot hack post pct anymore so I am officially on trt. I will blast and cruise here on out and I am thirty. At 50 I know I wouldnt have given it a second thought. My yest was low 400's and that just doesn't suit me. Before yesterday my test was so low (post pct) that I was falling apart and losing mass.
I have fully decided to marry the self administration and control of my hormones because for my goals, the pros outweigh the cons.

Good luck sir.

**judoguy** · 05-30-2017, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke

If you are past your genetic potential you would lose any gains you earned with aas, eventually, anyway.
Trt will probably (it will) help you hold gains. I cannot hack post pct anymore so I am officially on trt. I will blast and cruise here on out and I am thirty. At 50 I know I wouldnt have given it a second thought. My yest was low 400's and that just doesn't suit me. Before yesterday my test was so low (post pct) that I was falling apart and losing mass.
I have fully decided to marry the self administration and control of my hormones because for my goals, the pros outweigh the cons.

Good luck sir.

thanks Obspowerstroke ,im starting to think the same, i was for sure past my genetic potential, im thinking i should get back on cycle, and do my own trt , how long would you blast then cruise for ? being max time on blast 3 months ???