Originally Posted by
Dtrain17
Originally Posted by Dtrain17
I know it depends but a lot of people say you absolutely need nolva or clomid to get back to normal even with hcg after a cycle , just wanna know for sure because i'm starting maybe in a month or two. No you do not need nolva and clomid! Only hcg is needed unless you have been running an anti-es like masteron or aromasin during your cycle then you need an anti-es like nolvadex during pct. There are a few people who don't use anything for pct and bounce back fairly fast while most do not. I always recommend pct! Nothing concerning the human body can be interpreted in absolutes. It's okay to add nolva and clomid after a long cycle to ensure faster restoration but HCG is the main drug needed and I have seen full restoration of the testis time and time again with hcg alone. However, anytime anti-es are included in the cycle you need anti-es pct as well.
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Sorry it wouldn't let me quote, it loaded forever. So if I know nothing is set in stone but i'm getting ready for my first cycle, no Eq in this one b/c I wanna see how I react to test alone, and masteron for now isn't available, I think i'll take proviron though. Proviron is a very mild anti-es and nolvadex will be needed along with hcg pct if proviron is used! Id like to know if I did the hcg during cycle, assuming no anti-e is needed, how much after cycle (keeping it less than you normally recommend)? 500-1000 eod of hcg for 2 weeks and keep nolvadex in for 4 weeks. I think I would use nolva also with the lower hcg (clomid I know isn't needed).
Do I need proviron after also (50mgs per day)? You can use nolvadex and/or proviron pct. You could also run just 25mgs of proviron to help with your sex drive when coming off the androgens. Only 25 mgs of proviron per day will not have enough anabolic effect to counteract the hcg. Run either or both for 4 weeks.
pct. It's really just left up to you at this point because both ways will work. How much nolva? 40 daily If you could at least say what would work for the avg guy, I know there's no definite answer. hcg is what works for the average guy. I think adding in some nolvadex at 40 daily is a good plan and 25 of proviron daily is okay as well for those wanting a litle extra boost in libido.
Your help is appreciated, thanks Ron. If I took hcg during cycle, could I stop it after and use nolva/clomid only? You could use that approach. I still prefer using some hcg post cycle for maximum results. Why don't you just continue using HCG at lower dosages for 2-3 weeks post cycle? That protocol would make it more affordable! I wanna do just hcg if I can but after the cycle when the dosages are way higher it gets really pricey, it would cost 115$/5000 iu's hcg for me which ends up being a lot when you use over 2000 iu's per day or around there plus on cycle. Thanks I really appreciate it! Study explaining why it's okay to continune using proviron during pct: Int J Gynaecol Obstet. 1988 Feb;26(1):121-8.
The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.
Varma TR, Patel RH.
Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.
Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assa 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - ) luteinizing hormone (lh - leutenizing hormone - ) and plasma testosterone were assa once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - , lh - leutenizing hormone - and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - , lh - leutenizing hormone - and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - and lh - leutenizing hormone - levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.
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