The first "real" Havoc Thread.

[MFT81]

Ok, Despite the less than 1/2 active ingredient threads, and just the overall dislike about Havoc/epistane threads, Ive decided to go ahead and run it. Ive spent a good amount of time researching and just havent found anything bad on it.

I wont be able to keep a log but will update from time to time if anything good/bad happens.

heres what ive got so far.....

WEEK 1-4
Havoc: 30mgs/ED

Support During:
anabolic innovations Cycle Support: 2 scoops per day
Taurine: 2-3g/day
Potassium: 1g/day
Fish Oil/Policosanol

WEEK 5-8
Nolva 40/40/30/30
and
A trib product I can get cheap/free from work.


Now I do have a couple of questions??

1. How many of you guys run cortisol blockers during PCT when using PH's?

2. Anything else ive forgot?

Comment freely as you wish, even if you wanna bash Havoc/epi products.
Thanks for your Time!!!

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

when exactly are you starting?

[MFT81]

Um, hopefully first of July, I order Nolva from ar-r so well see when, Everything else is on order and on there way to.

I have to leave for like 5 days at the end of july and really dont want to start PCT at my moms house, dont think that would go over great.

[K.Biz]

its is a methylated so i would run milk thistle @ at least 1g a day. thats my only input. goodluck MF

[MFT81]

The Cycle support I ordered includes that, Here is the ingredients list.

What's In It?


Serving Size: 1 Scoop
Servings Per Container: 60

Amount Per Serving:

Red Yeast Rice 1200 mg
Silymarin (milk thistle extract) 1000 mg
NAC 1200 mg
Hawthorn Berry 1000 mg
Saw Palmetto 300 mg
Policosonol 20 mg
Celery Seed Extract 150 mg
Nettle Root 250 mg
Idebenone 100 mg

Other Ingredients:
Natural and artificial flavors, one or more of the following; acesulfame, maltodextrin, dextrose, sucralose.

Directions: Mix 1 scoop with a protein drink in the morning and again in the evening.

These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

[K.Biz]

wow. dope mix, thats got everything you need + more. Since RYR d e pletes coQ10 in the heart i recomend picking up coq10 and dosing it at anywhere from 100-300mg a day.

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

wow. dope mix, thats got everything you need + more. Since RYR d e pletes coQ10 in the heart i recomend picking up coq10 and dosing it at anywhere from 100-300mg a day.

I would say 100mg CoQ10 would be sufficent. And yes, very dope mix

[Property of Steroid.com]

Ok, Despite the less than 1/2 active ingredient threads, and just the overall dislike about Havoc/epistane threads, Ive decided to go ahead and run it. Ive spent a good amount of time researching and just havent found anything bad on it.

This is something I wanna talk about...where have you found all the good stuff about it?

[MFT81]

Good Question,

Honestly, Ive put my foot in my mouth with that last statement, I did read some of your thread, and also the similar thread on BB.com about being only 40% active on epistane back in feb of this year,

I guess in your eyes, and maybe you could say yeah, or nay, that havoc by rpn is also underdosed as well?

so why did I choose to run something that is clearly a rip off? It's because of the bottom line results people were getting, I wanted a product that could give me about 5-8 lbs of lean "dry" mass, with a reduction in bf% and some strength gains, people were getting this over and over on BB

so whatever or however much is in this was enough for me to part ways with 50 bucks,

if you know of a product that could promise this that is quality in your eyes let me know, its not to late.

[MFT81]

p.s. I was kinda stoked that my lowely havoc thread got your attention Anthony, kinda honored. Thanks.

[Property of Steroid.com]

Good Question,

Honestly, Ive put my foot in my mouth with that last statement, I did read some of your thread, and also the similar thread on BB.com about being only 40% active on epistane back in feb of this year,

I guess in your eyes, and maybe you could say yeah, or nay, that havoc by rpn is also underdosed as well?

so why did I choose to run something that is clearly a rip off? It's because of the bottom line results people were getting, I wanted a product that could give me about 5-8 lbs of lean "dry" mass, with a reduction in bf% and some strength gains, people were getting this over and over on BB

so whatever or however much is in this was enough for me to part ways with 50 bucks,

if you know of a product that could promise this that is quality in your eyes let me know, its not to late.

I don't actually think that the Havoc product is underdosed. I don't trust the company which put out those lab reports. I think that the Epi product by Inn0vative is crap...not the Havoc version by RPN.

The Inn0vative version, because I trust Mike, who tested their product and found it to be bunk, I believe to be garbage.

Bottom Line: If you see unsponsored logs, on sites not controlled by the people producing the product, where people report good results from the stuff, then it's worth a try. I haven't seen that personally, but if you have, and you are willing to part with $50 to try it out, then go for it, and let me know your results.

[MFT81]

For sure, thanks,

And yeah, Thats why I didnt buy any other brand as RPN seemed to have the strongest rep, Plus everyone's logs that they posted on other sites really impressed me. Im glad that you think that RPN is a decent brand.

Also, a question for anyone/everyone, im going to run 30 mgs per day, how would you dose each tablet, One idea is that they have about a 7 hour 1/2 life so would I do them at like 6 am 1pm and then 8pm or do 1 am and 2 preworkout (at around 5:30)? Or does it really matter?

[K.Biz]

For sure, thanks,

And yeah, Thats why I didnt buy any other brand as RPN seemed to have the strongest rep, Plus everyone's logs that they posted on other sites really impressed me. Im glad that you think that RPN is a decent brand.

Also, a question for anyone/everyone, im going to run 30 mgs per day, how would you dose each tablet, One idea is that they have about a 7 hour 1/2 life so would I do them at like 6 am 1pm and then 8pm or do 1 am and 2 preworkout (at around 5:30)? Or does it really matter?

dose double before your workout. so 1 at 6am and 1 at 1pm or somthing. theres no point in keeping the body anabolic durng sleep because sleep is the most anabolic state anyone can have. so double up before u workout.

[MFT81]

Cool, How long before workout? an hour? Less? Keep in mind I eat a small meal an hour to an hour and 1/2 before a workout? Should I take them, then?

[K.Biz]

yea take them with food. always with food if possible

[MFT81]

Just wanted to run this dosing schedule by some of you with sd/pp exp. Havoc is similar so i figured it would be about the same.

7:00 am Brkfst
- 1 Multi
- 1 scoop Cycle Support (BP/choles/Liver support)

10:0 am Snack
- 10 mg Havoc
- 1g Taurine
- 1 B-vit complex
- 100 mg DHEA

4-4:30 Pretrain meal
- 20 mg Havoc
- 1g Taurine
100 mg DHEA
- Joint support/Gluco-Chond.
- 1 fat burner/caffiene.

5:30 Preworkout supps
- 2 scoops protein
- 1/2 scoop gatorade

8:30 PWO
- 2 scoops protein
- 1 scoop cycle support.

[K.Biz]

Looks good to me. but your not eating frequently enough. wheres you pwo meal? and your not eating anything in between 10 and 4? why?

[embalmer]

I hope this is his dosages for just the supps and stuff not including meals. :P

[MFT81]

Yeah,

I spared everyone the pain of reading what I eat, so I just listed a few supps with meals.....

[MFT81]

Here is a quick list of my working max's on main lifts, ill try to update mid way and at the end to see if there are any big differences.

Prepare to be amazed (at my weakness)

Chest:
Flat Bench: 225x5
Incline Bench: 185x5
Incline DB: 75-80x5
Flat db fly: 35x8

Back:
Deads: 405x4-5
Rack Pulls: 425x5-7
Pullups: 6-8x**ywt
Pulldown: 190x5
DB Row: 110x5-7
Bar Row: 205x6-8

Legs:
Squat: 315x5
Leg Press: 7plates per sidex6
Lunge 65lbs
SLDL 225x7-10

Shoulders:
Seated Mil: 135x5
DB Mil: 60x5
upright row: 135x8
Laterals: 25x10

Arms:
Dips: w/ weight 1plate + 25lbsx7-9
Tri Ext: 120x8(?)
French Press: 85x8-10
Barbell Curl: 105x5-7
DB curl: 40x6-8

Like I said these are the poundages im comfortable with during my last sets, I can lift more but dont need to.

here are my current stats:

6ft
200-204
about 10%ish, This isnt exact, this is just what ive seen with myself compared to what others have told members who posted pics on here.

Ill try to MAYBE get some pics this weekend, Ill only be like 4 days into cycle so shouldnt be a big diff.

[dwaynewade]

Here is a quick list of my working max's on main lifts, ill try to update mid way and at the end to see if there are any big differences.

Prepare to be amazed (at my weakness)

Chest:
Flat Bench: 225x5
Incline Bench: 185x5
Incline DB: 75-80x5
Flat db fly: 35x8

Back:
Deads: 405x4-5
Rack Pulls: 425x5-7
Pullups: 6-8x**ywt
Pulldown: 190x5
DB Row: 110x5-7
Bar Row: 205x6-8

Legs:
Squat: 315x5
Leg Press: 7plates per sidex6
Lunge 65lbs
SLDL 225x7-10

Shoulders:
Seated Mil: 135x5
DB Mil: 60x5
upright row: 135x8
Laterals: 25x10

Arms:
Dips: w/ weight 1plate + 25lbsx7-9
Tri Ext: 120x8(?)
French Press: 85x8-10
Barbell Curl: 105x5-7
DB curl: 40x6-8

Like I said these are the poundages im comfortable with during my last sets, I can lift more but dont need to.

here are my current stats:

6ft
200-204
about 10%ish, This isnt exact, this is just what ive seen with myself compared to what others have told members who posted pics on here.

Ill try to MAYBE get some pics this weekend, Ill only be like 4 days into cycle so shouldnt be a big diff.

Yea i agree about your strength, from what i c in particular is that your push exercises are a little weak. I weigh 50 pds less than you and have close numbers to yours on all the pushing exercises. There are obviously other things that play a role but considering you're about %10 body fat I assume there's plenty muscle to move plenty weight.

"Like I said these are the poundages im comfortable with during my last sets, I can lift more but dont need to."

i was also wondering what you meant by..."don't need to" have you reached a goal already in physical appearance? or is that how your routine is mapped out?

[MFT81]

Meaning, I dont need to use more weight because I feel it more in my joints and cant get a good contraction. If I used more id feel the weight not the muscle contracting.

But no, im nowhere near where id like to be with my muscularity, I would love to bench 315 someday, but i dont give a shit about it if it ment looking the same as I do now to do it.

I guess more or less, i didnt write all that crap for review, but ill take it esp if I get good advice, it's more or less just a cyber bookmark so I can update later

BTW, thanks for taking the time for reviewing my thread.

[dwaynewade]

Meaning, I dont need to use more weight because I feel it more in my joints and cant get a good contraction. If I used more id feel the weight not the muscle contracting.

But no, im nowhere near where id like to be with my muscularity, I would love to bench 315 someday, but i dont give a shit about it if it ment looking the same as I do now to do it.

I guess more or less, i didnt write all that crap for review, but ill take it esp if I get good advice, it's more or less just a cyber bookmark so I can update later

BTW, thanks for taking the time for reviewing my thread.

Oh ok... I c... when do you start your cycle? have you got a workout program going yet?

I recently started my mass tab cycle (Sunday) to be exact... and i recommend the same routine. Yes I know everyone has their favorite program, and everyones results vary so i share with you my enthusiam because it just truly is great.

good luck... keep us updated

[MFT81]

I might start today, I called UPS yesterday, said theyd deliver my package which had the havoc today, so I could start today or I might wait till tomorrow.

as far as a program, I dont have anything revolutionary, just the basics that work for me, ill dig up your routine if its on here.

Good luck too on the Mass tabs!

[dwaynewade]

link to page with workout...

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/bulki...t%20levlel.php

the site itself is great though..

[K.Biz]

it honestly does not matter how much weight you push, obviously the more weight you push your going to be more happy, but just because u can push more weight does not mean you are bigger then the next guy.

like captian dominate... guys f*ckin massive!!!!! his back could be used as a table for table of 5 to eat on, and the rest of him his massive as well, but his max bench is like 250. its not all about the weight.

[dwaynewade]

it honestly does not matter how much weight you push, obviously the more weight you push your going to be more happy, but just because u can push more weight does not mean you are bigger then the next guy.

like captian dominate... guys f*ckin massive!!!!! his back could be used as a table for table of 5 to eat on, and the rest of him his massive as well, but his max bench is like 250. its not all about the weight.

hmmm... this is a very relative topic, I understand what you're saying.... not necessarily saying bigger than the next guy but maybe getting bigger than the next guy.... let me rephrase that- you make muscle-building progress by pushing your muscles to the limits of their ability, and they adapt by increasing in size and strength. Therefore, an identical workout will be less stressful the next time. If you are settling at a certain weight you must be settling with you body composition. You could also say that intensity, volume, technique, form can bring your muscles to their limits. This is relative to what your goals are... if you want big size though you got to lift big. IMO

[K.Biz]

hmmm... this is a very relative topic, I understand what you're saying.... not necessarily saying bigger than the next guy but maybe getting bigger than the next guy.... let me rephrase that- you make muscle-building progress by pushing your muscles to the limits of their ability, and they adapt by increasing in size and strength. Therefore, an identical workout will be less stressful the next time. If you are settling at a certain weight you must be settling with you body composition. You could also say that intensity, volume, technique, form can bring your muscles to their limits. This is relative to what your goals are... if you want big size though you got to lift big. IMO

Yes I agree... to a point. Muscles fibers break when you exaust the muscle to the last rep, so i can lift 325 3 or 4 times, but if i lift 250, 15-20times i feel im doing a better job. granted my form at 325 is not as great either. Yes when you get bigger your going to lift more, this is obvious. but small increases in weight such as 5 - 10 pounds can add a great amount of muscle. And just because for his size he doesnt lift as much as you, or me, does not mean hes not ready to cycle, just means his genetics for myostatin blocking are weaker then yours or mine, in theory.

[dwaynewade]

Yes I agree... to a point. Muscles fibers break when you exaust the muscle to the last rep, so i can lift 325 3 or 4 times, but if i lift 250, 15-20times i feel im doing a better job. granted my form at 325 is not as great either. Yes when you get bigger your going to lift more, this is obvious. but small increases in weight such as 5 - 10 pounds can add a great amount of muscle. And just because for his size he doesnt lift as much as you, or me, does not mean hes not ready to cycle, just means his genetics for myostatin blocking are weaker then yours or mine, in theory.

yea i agree... what threw me off a bit I guess is when he mentioned it was "enough" for him, I just figured/assumed he wasn't trying to lift heavier in progression to his workouts- small increases are ideal as long as there IS an increment. Again, this applying to mass.

[K.Biz]

yea i agree... what threw me off a bit I guess is when he mentioned it was "enough" for him, I just figured/assumed he wasn't trying to lift heavier in progression to his workouts- small increases are ideal as long as there IS an increment. Again, this applying to mass.

I also agree... mabye i interpreted wrong. either way, good convo haha

[domeyeahaigh]

havoc is very good stuff, I feel pain in my sides when I take it though. It works well. Is it not true that it was introduce in japan and is in fact an anti estrogen..this is what I found from research.

[Shane35aa]

MFT

Glad your running this thread. I'm currently looking for something and have though about Havoc. Good Luck man

Also gonna have to check out the S Supps mix man, be a helluva easier than the handfull of pills and all those damn bottles.

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Hey MFT, how is the Havoc going?

[dboy]

I have some epistane coming in within a day or so along w/some 11-oxo i'm gonna stack for cutting... will be starting within' 5 days will let you know how it goes --- funny how EVERY board says epistane is good but this one, and this is coming from a guy who really likes myo (except for the dodgy caps they came in) --- i'm really excited, i expect to cut in a serious way we shall see.....

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

bump for MFT.

[K.Biz]

bump for MFT.

He died from the under dosed havoc... lol

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

He died from the under dosed havoc... lol

lol...poor MFT...tisk tisk tisk

im about to shoot him a PM if he doesn't post up

[Bradly1234]

dboy let me know how the epi works, it is an interesting compound. theirs alot of good reviews but when i come to ar, i hear all bad.

[dboy]

dboy let me know how the epi works, it is an interesting compound. theirs alot of good reviews but when i come to ar, i hear all bad.

i will - starting on tuesday, stacking w/11-oxo

[Bradly1234]

start a new thread in supps and post a log