How do you think i could best shock the hell out of my chest?

**k_dogg** · 08-09-2004, 01:37 AM

the rest of the body is coming along nicely its just the chest wich i feel is not gaining as much as it should be. im currently bulking on a 2 on 1 off prog. its a new prog for me and has been working great for the past 3 months or so. my chest is slowly getting stronger but i feel its lagging behind. every 2 weeks (2 workouts) or so i throw an extra 5-10lbs. slow gains when compared to the rest of the body. eg squat going up about near 20lbs every week. im on wk 5 of sust250 btw.

day 1 legs
day 2 chest
day 3 rest
day 4 back and traps
day 5 shoulders and arms
day 6 rest

i have cut cardio away almost completely.

chest day looks like this....

flat bench 3x6-8
incline bench 3x6-8
flat db press 3x6-8
incline db flies 3x6-8

i dont feel my workout needs that much of a shake up... just chest. in the past 7 or so weeks i have gone from 177 to 197lbs.

i hope this is enough for you guys???
cheers for any advice.

**znak** · 08-09-2004, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by k_dogg

chest day looks like this....

flat bench 3x6-8
incline bench 3x6-8
flat db press 3x6-8
incline db flies 3x6-8

i dont feel my workout needs that much of a shake up... just chest. in the past 7 or so weeks i have gone from 177 to 197lbs.

i hope this is enough for you guys???
cheers for any advice.

When I plateau, I do NEGATIVES. They work. Add 10-20 pounds to you max weight and lower it to your chest for 3 sets of six. Your partner lifts it up. You lower it down. Take 5 pounds off each set, but keep it HEAVY.

You really need to have a good partner, 'cause failure can happen quickly.

There is an article in Muscle and Fitness showing that negatives are in fact the most effective means to build strength, which is mass.

You will be happy (and very sore.)

**partyboynyc** · 08-09-2004, 07:03 AM

take a car battery and hook those jumper cables up to you nipples. if that doesn't do it, **** it, i have no idea

**IronReload04** · 08-09-2004, 10:47 AM

how are drop sets for strength? I mean wicked drop sets?

**bluethunder** · 08-09-2004, 11:17 AM

Okay, you are currently for the most part doing low reps. You need to shock the other muscle fibers. What I suggest is doing perhaps 7-10 sets of cable crossovers. Really squeeze the contraction. Do not use heavy but start low & paramid up. Rep range from 12-20. The key is getting massive blood flow & pump. Just try this a few times.. Make sure the day you do it that your chest is fully recovered from a previous workout. If you do it right I bet you will be sore the next 2 days which proves it worked. Good luck PS do not perform any benching only the cables with perhaps light db flys as a warmup.

**Soldier of Misfortune** · 08-09-2004, 01:29 PM

I like znak's idea of negatives. I did those for a cupple weeks on chest day and it got my strength up alot.

**ImmmtheIceman** · 08-09-2004, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by partyboynyc

take a car battery and hook those jumper cables up to you nipples. if that doesn't do it, **** it, i have no idea

**bluethunder** · 08-09-2004, 01:49 PM

Negatives are very good but advanced, & should not be done everyworkout. They are good for hitting a plateau. Although strength will increase it does not guarantee mass. There are lifters only 165lbs that lift 315lbs thats strength not mass. You need more volume of blood flow, IMO but you could try negs

**cokdiesl** · 08-09-2004, 03:59 PM

i personally like negatives...like thunder said i usually only use them tho if my weight hasn't gone up in over a week or so...but i do like to take a set to failure and then rack the weight get a couple deep breaths in and hit again for one or two maybe a forced rep or two..again you need a good partner

**usualsuspect** · 08-09-2004, 04:19 PM

Progressive training. Lift more weight and bang out more reps than your last training session. I'll guarantee you'll grow and continually break through plateau's. However, diet and rest must be at top notch to perform at that level.

**DevilsDeity** · 08-09-2004, 04:29 PM

i find that running my routine backwards helps
you do
flat bench 3x6-8
incline bench 3x6-8
flat db press 3x6-8
incline db flies 3x6-8
try
incline db flies 3x6-8
flat db press 3x6-8
incline bench 3x6-8
flat bench 3x6-8

**k_dogg** · 08-09-2004, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by znak

When I plateau, I do NEGATIVES. They work. Add 10-20 pounds to you max weight and lower it to your chest for 3 sets of six. Your partner lifts it up. You lower it down. Take 5 pounds off each set, but keep it HEAVY.

You really need to have a good partner, 'cause failure can happen quickly.

There is an article in Muscle and Fitness showing that negatives are in fact the most effective means to build strength, which is mass.

You will be happy (and very sore.)

im definately going to give negatives a go. i have been curious about them for a while and i guess there is no better time to try than now. but how should i incorporate them? should i just remove incline and flat bench and have inlcine and flat negatives?

**itsallmental** · 08-09-2004, 08:21 PM

negatives are a bad idea if your not experienced. first try upping your sets but lowering your rep range. my benchpress halted at around 305 when i kept my rep range about 6 reps. a few years back i started doing lower reps with more sets, and i can bench 4 plates clean now. do your own routine bro, different people need different routines.

tips;
put your chest workout on mondays now. on mondays, you have the most energy. you rested up well the day before. so change around your legs and chest day.

up your sets, lower your reps. this is more of a powerlifting style of training, but it will work definitly.

pyramid your weight on each set. my first set starts out with 315 for 6, then 335 for 5, then 355 for 4, then 375 for 3, i burnout with around 20 pounds less than my starting weight for no more than 10 reps.

stick with a routine that works.that routine i typed in the paragraph above, has worked wonders for me, it might or might not work for you but it wouldnt hurt to try. ive gotten alot of my buddys to copy my routine and they see changes.

your spotter should only be there incase of emergency. remember now, YOUR doing the work. i can understand if your aiming for 3 reps, and you only get 2 and a half, thats fine. but if your aiming for 3 sets, and you can only press 1, that bar that your moving has less weight on now, due to the fact that your spotter is released some pressure so hes now doing some of the work too.

do dips. a few years back i started doing dips. i saw how arnold did his routine, and he did heavy dips as well so i started doing them. they worked **** well for me.

ALWAYS PLACE YOUR HEAVIEST EXCERCISE FIRST. its a very ignorant idea to place your benchpress last. this leaves you energy depleated, and your gonna end up struggling with your first and last set instead of doing it comfortably. also most likely, your bench will go down about 20 maybe 30% due to the pump and again, tiredness your gonna feel.

good luck.

**znak** · 08-11-2004, 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by itsallmental

negatives are a bad idea if your not experienced. first try upping your sets but lowering your rep range. my benchpress halted at around 305 when i kept my rep range about 6 reps. a few years back i started doing lower reps with more sets, and i can bench 4 plates clean now. do your own routine bro, different people need different routines.

tips;

good luck.

I agree with you on every item (read "this is exactly what I do myself").

I do weighted dips, pyramiding up and down in weight (none-10kg-20kg-30kg-40kg-10kg) and they also really helped my bench.

But negative are the best tool I know for bench.

First exercise of chest day. After you have done a good bench warm up:

Put the bench flat.

Put 110% of your 1RM on the bar.

Partner helps with lift off (optional, depends on your rack)

Take 3-5 seconds to lower to your chest.

Repeat 5 more times.

Your partner should have his hands on the bar, feeling all the way down.

Failure can happen suddenly, so he should be in position.

Make sure he is in position to SAFELY rerack the weight with you pushing if you fail.

THIS IS NOT AN EVERYDAY OR REALLY EVERY WEEK EXERCISE. I do it for about a month or so when I am stuck.

I use it when I am stuck and cannot add 2.5 kg to the weight I am doing.

**co2boi** · 08-11-2004, 05:41 AM

I like drop sets, but only if you have a partner. Another "fun" thing to do is 10-15 push-ups after each set of flat bench. That may sound easy, but it'll work the fvuck out of your chest. You should also try changing up the excercises, like subsitute weighted chest dips for something, do seated presses, etc. JMHO

**itsallmental** · 08-11-2004, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by co2boi

I like drop sets, but only if you have a partner. Another "fun" thing to do is 10-15 push-ups after each set of flat bench. That may sound easy, but it'll work the fvuck out of your chest. You should also try changing up the excercises, like subsitute weighted chest dips for something, do seated presses, etc. JMHO

if you want a strong bench, its hiding behind the diprack. ive experienced those words in the past few years.never drop your dips. doing pushups after EVERY single set is a bad idea, will only leave your chest pumped with so much lactic acid that your gonna feel pumped and tired by your 3rd and 4th set. i do pushups sometimes, but only AFTER ive went through my whole routine and im ready to leave the gym. 1 set to failure gets good blood flow throughout your chest.

**co2boi** · 08-11-2004, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by itsallmental

if you want a strong bench, its hiding behind the diprack. ive experienced those words in the past few years.never drop your dips. doing pushups after EVERY single set is a bad idea, will only leave your chest pumped with so much lactic acid that your gonna feel pumped and tired by your 3rd and 4th set. i do pushups sometimes, but only AFTER ive went through my whole routine and im ready to leave the gym. 1 set to failure gets good blood flow throughout your chest.

True, it does cause a build up of lactic acid, but the same principles apply to doing set's back to back, or with relatively short rests in between. They don't make you stronger, they help muscles build a tolerance to lactic acid so future workouts will benefit. I'm not sure what you mean by dropping dips, I didn't recommend doing dropsets of dips.

**Soup** · 08-11-2004, 09:27 AM

Being sore doesn't mean it worked just a build up of lactic acid, so you didn't stretcch after or didn't recuporate completely. If you train to soreness every time you hit the gym chances are you are over training.

**itsallmental** · 08-11-2004, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by co2boi

True, it does cause a build up of lactic acid, but the same principles apply to doing set's back to back, or with relatively short rests in between. They don't make you stronger, they help muscles build a tolerance to lactic acid so future workouts will benefit. I'm not sure what you mean by dropping dips, I didn't recommend doing dropsets of dips.

you told him to drop his dips, meaning stop doing dips. thats a bad idea bro. ive never wasted time with dropsets or back to back sets, i take around 2 to 4 minute rests in between heavy sets. its hard to train with full intensity, throwing around hundreds of pounds with only 1 minute for your sh!t to recooperate.

**Hypertrophy** · 08-11-2004, 10:04 AM

Manipulate a Variable. Sets, Reps, Exercises, Frequency, Rest Periods, Rep Speed, etc, etc.

**co2boi** · 08-11-2004, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by itsallmental

you told him to drop his dips, meaning stop doing dips. thats a bad idea bro. ive never wasted time with dropsets or back to back sets, i take around 2 to 4 minute rests in between heavy sets. its hard to train with full intensity, throwing around hundreds of pounds with only 1 minute for your sh!t to recooperate.

me? I never said drop dips. Not drop as in quitting or drop as in drop sets. I said use dips (or something else) as a substitute for an excercise he is currently doing, or do drop sets of the current excercises. All I am trying to do is get him to mix it up a bit.

"You should also try changing up the excercises, like subsitute weighted chest dips for something, do seated presses, etc. JMHO"

**co2boi** · 08-11-2004, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Hypertrophy

Manipulate a Variable. Sets, Reps, Exercises, Frequency, Rest Periods, Rep Speed, etc, etc.

Exactly. That's all I was trying to get at...

**Hugh-Hefner's-Son** · 08-11-2004, 12:12 PM

Hmm , surprized no one mentioned 1 arm presses. These have been effective for me and they work great.

For any dumbell chest excersize, (decline bench / flat bench...) hold both weights, but only preform the lift with one arm. This will allow you to focus stricktly on one side of your chest and work it harder.

**co2boi** · 08-11-2004, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Hugh-Hefner's-Son

Hmm , surprized no one mentioned 1 arm presses. These have been effective for me and they work great.

For any dumbell chest excersize, (decline bench / flat bench...) hold both weights, but only preform the lift with one arm. This will allow you to focus stricktly on one side of your chest and work it harder.

Dam, what a simple but great idea. I never even considered doing one arm presses. So you are just basically doing slow punches in whatever position? (flat, angle, ...)

**bluethunder** · 08-11-2004, 02:01 PM

The problem with performing one arm db presses is you are much more prone to injury. Synergistic/aux supporting muscles may be weak or stressed and you are trying to compensate by shifting your body. Like some is doing seated leg presses with one leg and has tons of weight bad idea... some exercises however can be done single,for example leg extention. I never tell inexperience people to do single arm presses.IMO

**DBarcelo** · 08-11-2004, 10:15 PM

A defibrilator would do the trick.

All you have to do is increase reps, increase sets, decrease reps, decrease sets, change up excercises a couple times and then go back to your normal rutine. A person normally starts to grow again after that. Your body doesn't know what to expect and figures it has to grow to compensate.

**Hugh-Hefner's-Son** · 08-12-2004, 08:24 AM

Correct c02boi , they can be preformed for any chest excersize utilizing dumbells , smith machine , hammer machine ...

But, as Bluethunder said, with any physical lifting , you must be careful. You don't want to stran or hurt yourself. These one arm chest presses will spur new growth real quickly. Make sure you hold both dumbells at the same time but only press one, it will trick your mind and level your body.

I'd also reccomend taking a lat pulldown bar and using it on a sit down chest press (the machine where you sit down and push out ) This will kill your inner pecs and work chest great IMO !

**carbs-rule** · 08-12-2004, 12:31 PM

I finish up a chestworkout with drop sets on a hammer press machine. It's amazing how heavy 15 lbs. feels at the end.

**bor** · 08-16-2004, 03:02 AM

1. try the preaxhust tehnicque....do a set of flies and then a set of bench, isoliation and then the real thing

2. also when you're done with the whole training session do 2 wery light sets of sa 30 reps

3. change the order of your workouts

4. shorten your session

**bor** · 08-16-2004, 03:03 AM

also try taking a rest day b4 andafter your chest day

**co2boi** · 08-16-2004, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by Hugh-Hefner's-Son

Correct c02boi , they can be preformed for any chest excersize utilizing dumbells , smith machine , hammer machine ...

But, as Bluethunder said, with any physical lifting , you must be careful. You don't want to stran or hurt yourself. These one arm chest presses will spur new growth real quickly. Make sure you hold both dumbells at the same time but only press one, it will trick your mind and level your body.

I'd also reccomend taking a lat pulldown bar and using it on a sit down chest press (the machine where you sit down and push out ) This will kill your inner pecs and work chest great IMO !

What width grip do you use? I like the idea...