training frequency?

**HOLLYWOOD** · 04-19-2005, 08:29 PM

anybody think that once a week is a little long for a muscle to recover? would some degree of atrophy take place within 7days?

**SwoleCat** · 04-19-2005, 08:36 PM

Nope.

I've also found that the bigger you get, the more time you need to recover.

~SC~

**Devourer** · 04-19-2005, 08:50 PM

your work volume and intensity are going to determine your recovery time...

**HOLLYWOOD** · 04-19-2005, 09:03 PM

how many training days in a row would be considered too long?

**Jantzen4k** · 04-19-2005, 10:09 PM

2 on
1 off

remember

with chest your also using tris and shoulders
with back, biceps traps
etc

**HOLLYWOOD** · 04-19-2005, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by Jantzen4k

2 on
1 off

remember

with chest your also using tris and shoulders
with back, biceps traps
etc

hows this look for a split;
day1: chest/tris
day2: back/bis
day3: off
day4: shoulders/traps
day5: legs
day6: off
day7: repeat

**Jantzen4k** · 04-19-2005, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD

hows this look for a split;
day1: chest/tris
day2: back/bis
day3: off
day4: shoulders/traps
day5: legs
day6: off
day7: repeat

id either start off with legs or do legs day 2 to throw in a rest between chest & back.

hit legs hard, they are half your body.

**Warrior** · 04-19-2005, 11:38 PM

Totally depends on the individual, current conditioning, genetics and workout volume/intensity. Normally 7 days is not long enough to notice any serious signs of detraining - which really sets in after 3 weeks of nothing.

You have a curve you ride after training a muscle group. Your goal is to hit that curve on the top of super compensation to keep prgoressing, its a sweet spot that is somthing you have to find - and can vary between muscle groups. Hitting the curve to early can result in less gains and symptoms of overtraining... waiting too long will result in diminished results and inadequate stimulis for a larger workout capacity (hypertrophy/strength)...

**HOLLYWOOD** · 04-20-2005, 09:39 AM

warrior, im curious as to what your training is like, can you post your routine???

also is there any way to gauge level of recovery beside overtraining symptoms felt over the course of weeks or months??? for example for specific muscle groups is there a general chart or info of some sort that will give an example of full recovery time needed by a specific muscle???

**BigJames** · 04-20-2005, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by SwoleCat

Nope.

I've also found that the bigger you get, the more time you need to recover.

~SC~

And look at him...he knows.

**HOLLYWOOD** · 04-20-2005, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by BigJames

And look at him...he knows.

very true!

ok ive come up with 3 training splits tell me with one in your opinion would be more effective...

day1: chest/tris
day2: back/bis
day3: off
day4: shoulders/traps
day5: legs
day6: off
day7: off

or...

day1: chest/tris
day2: back/bis
day3: off
day4: shoulders/traps
day5: legs
day6: off
day7: repeat

or...

day1: chest
day2: back
day3: off
day4: shoulders/traps
day5: arms
day6: legs
day7: off

which one in your opinion???

**Puffader** · 04-20-2005, 11:55 AM

Mine is close to yours

day1: back/bi
day2: chest/tri
day3: off
day4: legs/Calves
day5: shoulders/traps
day6: off
day7: Repeat

**getbig888** · 04-20-2005, 01:29 PM

I don't like doing chest/tri and back/bi 2 days in a row but thats just me.

**HOLLYWOOD** · 04-20-2005, 02:43 PM

well i just got home from the back and bis workout and to tell you the truth, im not a big fan of it! after doing 9-12 sets heavy as hell and balls to the wall it's just too hard to focus on bis after all that and i think it will lead to overtraining! i think it's because i train with extreme intensity and this is why, i even have a hard time doing 4 exersices of 3 sets each becasue by the time im done with first 3 exercise im just too cooked! so i think ill have to stay with this...

day1: chest
day2: back
day3: off
day4: shoulders/traps
day5: arms
day6: legs
day7: off

**bluethunder** · 04-20-2005, 03:54 PM

I will echo what SC said in addition to it could be evan longer than 7 days because nutrition plays a role as well as ones age.

**HOLLYWOOD** · 04-20-2005, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by bluethunder

I will echo what SC said in addition to it could be evan longer than 7 days because nutrition plays a role as well as ones age.

well im only 22years old! it's the way i train, when i train a muscle it's sore for about 3 days but the third day is pretty much the last bit of soreness! which i dont think is slow recovery i just train very, very heavy and intense

**Hypertrophy** · 04-21-2005, 09:17 AM

Read this:
The purpose of this series of studies was to use a practical measure to examine the course of muscular endurance recovery after 3 sets to failure in 10 men (ages 18 to 30 years) and then compare those results with 10 men (ages 18 to 30 years) who performed 7 sets and 10 older men (ages 50 to 65 years) who performed 3 sets. Recovery as indicated by number of repetitions performed was observed at 24, 48, 72, and 96 hours. Repeated-measures ANOVA was used to investigate differences in recovery over time. For group means, performance was significantly lower in all 3 groups after 24 hours (p < 0.05). At 48 hours, performance of the groups was not significantly different from baseline (p > 0.05). Number of repetitions performed at 72 hours was significantly higher than that in session 1 (10.2 +/- 1.4 reps in session 1 vs. 11.2 +/- 2.3 at 72 hours, p = 0.022) in the young 3-sets group, but not in the other groups. After 96 hours, only the young 7-sets group was found to be performing at a level approaching significance (10.3 +/- 1.2 reps in session 1 vs. 11.1 +/- 2.0 at 96 hours, p = 0.051). No significant difference was found between the young 3-sets and 7-sets groups at any time (p > 0.05). The young 3-sets group was found to be performing at a significantly higher level than the older group at 72 hours (11.2 +/- 2.3 reps in the younger vs. 9.9 +/- 1.7 in the older group, p = 0.008), a difference that also approached significance at 96 hours (p = 0.06). Large intersubject variability was observed at all time points. The results suggest that individual recovery testing before exercise prescription is practical, and this protocol may be sensitive to differences in training volume and subject age.

now, replicate this study with your own intensity and volume and set your optimal recovery times or training frequency. . .

**HOLLYWOOD** · 04-21-2005, 10:33 AM

so tell me if im reading this right...the group with age 18-30 who performed sets were strongest at the 72 hour mark???

**Hypertrophy** · 04-21-2005, 10:43 AM

Yeah, 72 hours was optimal in this "one" study. Remember, your volume will significantly differ from this study, so do not infer these results to your training. We know that high volume training causes longer recovery periods. . .

**HOLLYWOOD** · 04-21-2005, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Hypertrophy

Yeah, 72 hours was optimal in this "one" study. Remember, your volume will significantly differ from this study, so do not infer these results to your training. We know that high volume training causes longer recovery periods. . .

ok so is this study implying that 3 sets is optimal but hit that muscle more frequent like every 3 days for the quickest gains???? when you think about it, the doggcrapp training has a point, if you can stimulate the muscle enough within a super low volume, and cause jsut as much growth as doing 9-12 sets then you'd be able to train more ofter, which in return will deliever almost 2wice as quick gains??? but in your opinion is it possible to stimulate a muscle enough within 3 sets???

**bluethunder** · 04-21-2005, 11:35 AM

Yes, it is possible to stimulate muscle in three set's provided intensity is there. D. Yates and M. Menzer did it after a few working sets. But we all know some are a bit more genetically "gifted" so to speak. Most cannot attain that level of intensity which comes from years of CNS involvement.

**Warrior** · 04-21-2005, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Hypertrophy

Yeah, 72 hours was optimal in this "one" study. Remember, your volume will significantly differ from this study, so do not infer these results to your training. We know that high volume training causes longer recovery periods. . .

Read: a person doing 5 sets of 10 reps using 225lbs is taxing his body less than a person who can do 5 sets of 10 reps using 315lbs. Your muscles hypertrophy and adapt but things like your connective tissue and internal filtering organs do not.

Also - if you use an advanced type routine (versus a basic POF-type) with short rests, or none at all, you may still be sore after 72 hours. And you should not keep hitting a sore muscle - it needs to be recovered.

**Hypertrophy** · 04-21-2005, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD

ok so is this study implying that 3 sets is optimal but hit that muscle more frequent like every 3 days for the quickest gains???? when you think about it, the doggcrapp training has a point, if you can stimulate the muscle enough within a super low volume, and cause jsut as much growth as doing 9-12 sets then you'd be able to train more ofter, which in return will deliever almost 2wice as quick gains??? but in your opinion is it possible to stimulate a muscle enough within 3 sets???

No, this was a mucle recovery study. It does not imply that 3 sets per muscle with increased frequency produces optimal gains. Where did you derive that from??

**HOLLYWOOD** · 04-21-2005, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Hypertrophy

No, this was a mucle recovery study. It does not imply that 3 sets per muscle with increased frequency produces optimal gains. Where did you derive that from??

??? i guess i pulled it out of my a$$