bis/tris workout Q

[LILG]

i train Bis wit Back and my tris with chest/shoulders
for bis i do3 sets of HAMMERS curls 3 sets of STRAIGHT BAR curls, 3 sets on incline supinating curls
for tris i do 3 sets oftricep pushdown,close grip,skullscrusher and overheaad ext
can u guys critique it and can tell me wat r the best 1's for gainin mass on arms and not for cutting and how many sets wit reps i shud do
thnx in advance -

[diamonds]

If you train bis with back you shouldn't need to do more than 6 sets. Stick with the major compound movements. straight bar curls are great, I don't like preacher curls, Hammer curls are great. I tend to stay away from dumbell curls unless I'm doing incline alternating curls. Your tricep routine should really be 6-9 sets. Try to pick an exercise that will hit the mujscle from different angles. A pushing movement, a pulling movement,and a stretching movement.
As far as reps go, it really depends on what feels best. Many people suggest low reps for bis and high reps for tris. Personally, I like to switch it up based on how the first set goes. You might want to incorporate some of the HIT methods which involve hitting all three of the Type B muscle fibers.

[Flexor]

If you train bis with back you shouldn't need to do more than 6 sets.

This isn't true. It would only be the case if he is deliberately working his bis hard with the compound back exercises.

Stick with the major compound movements. straight bar curls are great. I don't like preacher curls, Hammer curls are great. I tend to stay away from dumbell curls unless I'm doing incline alternating curls.

You say stick to the major compound movements and then you suggest three isolations? No, straight bar curls aren't great. They give poor leverage for the bieps to work with, you can't get a good peak contraction because of this and it can cause bad forearm problems. I agree with you on preacher curls, they aren't a good bicep exercise because they target the brachialis more since the medial bicep has insufficiency and is unable to complete contraction due to a lack of actin/myosin (because the biceps are triarticulate and shoulder flexion has taken place). Db curls of any type of useful, but the supinating variety is far more effective, especially if done on an incline because of the prestretch due to hyperextension of the shoulder.

Your tricep routine should really be 6-9 sets. Try to pick an exercise that will hit the mujscle from different angles. A pushing movement, a pulling movement,and a stretching movement.
As far as reps go, it really depends on what feels best. Many people suggest low reps for bis and high reps for tris. Personally, I like to switch it up based on how the first set goes. You might want to incorporate some of the HIT methods which involve hitting all three of the Type B muscle fibers.

You can't hit the tricep from different angles because it has a common origin on the olecranon process. The long head is attached to the scapula so this can be stretched with overhead exercises, but this is not recruited it more. It is merely pre-stretching it, which leads to development of more force and therefore more damage. You cannot favour one head over the other. The best thing to do with the triceps is to hit them hard with compound exercises then with one isolation such as skullcrushers. I would say 8-12 reps as usual for the triceps, same for biceps. They have similar fast/slow twitch ratios so they behave the same, also they are fusiform muscles so they are very similar in construction.

[S.P.G]

I agree....^^Good post as usual Flexor.

[diamonds]

This isn't true. It would only be the case if he is deliberately working his bis hard with the compound back exercises. You say stick to the major compound movements and then you suggest three isolations? No, straight bar curls aren't great. They give poor leverage for the bieps to work with...

Well then, Flexor.....I must show a quote that you posted in another thread that stated the following:

"You want 4 sets after back if you worked your bis hard during back. If you didn't work your bis hard, then I suggest 6-8 sets. Something including incline supinating curls, hammer curls and barbell curls. I would personally drop the barbell curls if I did underhand close grip chins."

Sounds kinda like a contradiction on your part to tell you the truth.

[LILG]

so you guys sayin that after back workout i do 6-8 sets of bis( 3sets hammer curls,3 incline supinating curls, and so 3 of straight barbell curls)
and as far as the tris go(3 sets skullcrushers,and wat others shoud i do? wit that

[Flexor]

Well then, Flexor.....I must show a quote that you posted in another thread that stated the following:



Sounds kinda like a contradiction on your part to tell you the truth.

WTF?

If you read my original quote from another thread that you posted, I say that you don't need more than 4 sets if you deliberately worked your bis hard during the back workout. I also say that 6-8 sets may be necessary if you haven't worked your bis hard during the back routine.

Now in this thread I alluded to this same fact. You said you don't need more than 6 sets if you work bis with back. I responded by saying that you may need more than 6 sets if you didn't work bis hard with back.

So originally I said 6-8 sets may be needed if the bis weren't worked hard by back, and now I have confirmed that again here.

Can you see that you have found nothing here? Read it again and you will see that I haven't contradicted myself

[Flexor]

so you guys sayin that after back workout i do 6-8 sets of bis( 3sets hammer curls,3 incline supinating curls, and so 3 of straight barbell curls)
and as far as the tris go(3 sets skullcrushers,and wat others shoud i do? wit that

well diamonds seems to be confused so I'm not sure what he is trying to say...

It depends how you do your back workout. If you are taking a wide pullup grip to reduce recruitment of the biceps, this for example will mean your back workout is not working your bis particularly hard so 6-8 sets may be necessary. I personally work bis very hard with my back routine so I only do 3 sets of actual bicep work afterwards.

If you are working your tris after chest, you can do dips, close grip bench and skulls. They are the best three exercises.

[S.P.G]

Well then, Flexor.....I must show a quote that you posted in another thread that stated the following:

Sounds kinda like a contradiction on your part to tell you the truth.

WTF?

If you read my original quote from another thread that you posted, I say that you don't need more than 4 sets if you deliberately worked your bis hard during the back workout. I also say that 6-8 sets may be necessary if you haven't worked your bis hard during the back routine.

Now in this thread I alluded to this same fact. You said you don't need more than 6 sets if you work bis with back. I responded by saying that you may need more than 6 sets if you didn't work bis hard with back.

So originally I said 6-8 sets may be needed if the bis weren't worked hard by back, and now I have confirmed that again here.

Can you see that you have found nothing here? Read it again and you will see that I haven't contradicted myself

[diamonds]

WHOA.....hold on a second! I said in my original reply that if he was doing bis with back that he shouldn't need more than six sets. Then Flexor, you come in trying to bust my balls about saying the exact same thing you had told me. I didn't say he should do exactly 6 sets for bis. I said he shouldn't need more than six sets. I say 6....you say 6-8!! What's the F'n difference? You contradict yourself for bustin my balls for tellin him 6 sets!!!
Then you proceed to talk shit on Barbell curls when, in another post, you recommend them??????

You can't avoid working the Biceps if you train back properly IMO.

[Flexor]

WHOA.....hold on a second! I said in my original reply that if he was doing bis with back that he shouldn't need more than six sets. Then Flexor, you come in trying to bust my balls about saying the exact same thing you had told me. I didn't say he should do exactly 6 sets for bis. I said he shouldn't need more than six sets. I say 6....you say 6-8!! What's the F'n difference? You contradict yourself for bustin my balls for tellin him 6 sets!!!
Then you proceed to talk shit on Barbell curls when, in another post, you recommend them??????

You can't avoid working the Biceps if you train back properly IMO.

In my quote you kindly provided, I said 4 sets for bis if they have been trained hard. I would say that was pretty different to 8, wouldn't you? You can perform certain back exercises in a way that all they do is fatigue the biceps slightly without causing damage, for example wide grip bent over rows will not be hitting the biceps particularly hard. There is a difference between a back workout biased towards biceps and a back workout totally in favour of the back. I've never recommended barbell curls from a scientific standpoint, technically they are a poor exercise. Still you've got to recommend them to closed minded people that will never be willing to drop them. If people find something is working for them, then it is working for them.

This, discussion, is a waste of time. Different people are recommended different things based on their different circumstances and preferences. Unlike you, I change my opinion based on the individual. Also I'm not going to degrade my arguments further by continuing this middle finger thing...

[diamonds]

In my quote you kindly provided, I said 4 sets for bis if they have been trained hard. I would say that was pretty different to 8, wouldn't you? You can perform certain back exercises in a way that all they do is fatigue the biceps slightly without causing damage, for example wide grip bent over rows will not be hitting the biceps particularly hard. There is a difference between a back workout biased towards biceps and a back workout totally in favour of the back. I've never recommended barbell curls from a scientific standpoint, technically they are a poor exercise. Still you've got to recommend them to closed minded people that will never be willing to drop them. If people find something is working for them, then it is working for them.

Obviously we are missing each other's point as far as I see it. Seems we are just approaching it from two different viewpoints. Not gonna argue with you because we all know you are very knowledgeable. I just don't appreciate getting my balls busted for merely repeating WHAT I BELIEVE to be something you yourself has said before, that's it!

[Flexor]

Obviously we are missing each other's point as far as I see it. Seems we are just approaching it from two different viewpoints. Not gonna argue with you because we all know you are very knowledgeable. I just don't appreciate getting my balls busted for merely repeating WHAT I BELIEVE to be something you yourself has said before, that's it!

Sorry bro, I wasn't trying to bust your balls. I say slightly different things in different posts because I see every situation as different. Someone that has included barbell curls first on their list of bicep exercises clearly loves them, some people don't do them at all so I would make a different recommendation. Anyway, I think the main point is our philosophy is the same when it comes to working arms

[cherokee6]

aw....see ...now that's nice