Doggcrapp

[IronReload04]

and i will tell you what. after dcing for about a year and making mind boggling gains, i cant even comprehend how my old ways of training wasnt overtraiining me just like you cant believe that dc ways are more efficient at growing muscle than yours.

But in the grand scheme of things, dc is not the only system that works, their are many wise and logical options. I love dorians methods by the way also. At the end of the day, all that matters is progress and not changing a working thing

so if what you are doing is getting you larger month after month, by all means keep doing what your doing

[diamonds]

1. Are you really so sure of to what extent muscels need to be broken down for the stimulus to over compensate during recovery?

2. Just because you are worn out doesnt mean that your muscles have been taxed sufficienty to overcompensate during recovery? Perhaps you curled a soup can 1000 times?

No one REALLY knows to what extent a muscle must be broken down to stimulate optimum growth. I must say that I don't have the slightest clue. One can be worn out or tired from too high intensity. What I mean by this is that if you don't rest long enough between sets or you use all your energy using bad form or cheat sets, you will not necessarily have taxed your muscles in the correct manner. You are over-exerted physically and cardiovascularly by unloading a moving truck, but by no means have you taxed your muscles.

[IronReload04]

Dc really opened up my mind to how taxed a muscle REALLY needs to be for the message

[mitch911]

you get some weird looks in the gym when ur on a machine for only like 1 full out set lol...i gave it a shot a little less than a year ago..i like how ur in the gym for little time i was in there 50 mins done everything 3 days a week..threw on the weight pretty fast..i had to stop when i cut seriously b/c theres no way to beat ur logbook on low cals/carbs.

[Warrior]

No one REALLY knows to what extent a muscle must be broken down to stimulate optimum growth. I must say that I don't have the slightest clue. One can be worn out or tired from too high intensity. What I mean by this is that if you don't rest long enough between sets or you use all your energy using bad form or cheat sets, you will not necessarily have taxed your muscles in the correct manner. You are over-exerted physically and cardiovascularly by unloading a moving truck, but by no means have you taxed your muscles.

It can vary a lot between different people... but there exist a peak that you must always retrain, at the height of, to get the most gains. And you must have an appropriate stimulus to get a high enough peak...

The Bompa Supercompensation curve is probably the best way to illustrate this...

Here is one I made a few years back for this Web site after reading his Periodization book:

Stage I: You go to the gym and balls out on biceps. This creates a stimulus followed by a fatique effect that drops your performance ability... if you went back a couple hours and tried to work them again you would feel sluggish and motivation would be low... and the muscle would not be recovered.

Stage II: At this point, your body bgeins to repair and return to normal homeostatis. It begins recovery. If you lift hard and heavy everyday with full intensity but not enough rest, you will continuely be stuck at this stage... AKA, no progress.

Stage III: This is where the difference happens. The system will overcompensate to allow more ATP/CP stores for greater energy and increased performance. Hitting the highest peak of this supercompensation is the goal.

Stage IV: But, if you decide to take some time off and no longer give your system the stimulus to keep the gains - it will return to normal levels and detraining begins.

[IronReload04]

The only thing i hope you get from dc is that - make sure what ever you are doing is giving you dramatic results month after month be it high volume or your own hybrid methods or what ever

[majorpecs]

I did my first workout yesterday utilizing the dogcrapp method. That workout KILLS! I think what puts it over the top is adding in the extreme stretching, those stretches, if done properly totally wipe out what's left of the muscle group. I will be adding in the burst cycling method with the doggcrapp training routine and see where i'm at in 4 weeks. I have a feeling i'm going to love the results.

[Warrior]

I did my first workout yesterday utilizing the dogcrapp method. That workout KILLS! I think what puts it over the top is adding in the extreme stretching, those stretches, if done properly totally wipe out what's left of the muscle group. I will be adding in the burst cycling method with the doggcrapp training routine and see where i'm at in 4 weeks. I have a feeling i'm going to love the results.

I'll be interested in your results with this fo sho... are you using AAS as well?

[majorpecs]

I'll be interested in your results with this fo sho... are you using AAS as well?

Right now I'm cruising on some test e, and I'm priming for a short burst cycle that will consist of:

1-4 Prop 300mg ed
1-4 decca 150mg ed
104 tren 100mg ed
slin 10IU pwo

then 6 weeks of pct with proviron , nolva, slin, and maybe some clomid.

[Jimmya73]

1-4 decca 150mg ed

deca as in nandrolone deconate or nandrolone pp?

[majorpecs]

deca as in nandrolone deconate or nandrolone pp?

nandrolone pp

[Doggcrapp]

Here is my main issue with the program. It focuses on being able to grow more over the course of a year than the typical once a week routine. You break the muscle down just enough to get it to recover fast so you can train that muscle again in 4 days.

So i could do a little damage to my muscle and train it twice in 8 days, or I could do extreme damage to it and just train it once a week. Which one will net you better gains? I mean isn't the goal of BB to break down your muscle as good as possible, wait for it to recover and grow, then do it all again.

Less damage to muscle fibers = less gains.....more damage = more gains (as long as you allow adequate recovery time!)

Just as he uses the guy stranded on the Island example. If you only have a 135 lb. barbell, you aren't going to grow into a monster no matter what you do. You aren't doing enough damage to your muscles to get them to grow. If you break down your muscle just enough to get it to grow, how much growth do you actually think you will get? I just don't see the advantage of this program.

IMO, I think you will get better gains by really breaking down the muscle tissue in 1 session with adequate recovery time, than just breaking it down a little but with multiple sessions. The only thing I see as an advantage with the DC program is that it doesn't tax you CNS nearly as bad as a 4 exercise- 20 set routine would.

I'm not saying the DC program isn't good, I just don't see why it is better than training each muscle group only once a week.

Mentzer did one set, Yates did low sets, and Michalik and Defendis did up to 80 sets per bodypart. All were on drugs. Michalik was on scary amounts of drugs for that matter. And after 5-6 hours in the gym for years on years he ended up only as a second or third tier pro bodybuilder. Was it worth it? Losing all that valuable time in his life? Once a growth response is met in a workout, pretty much everything you do after that is burning up glycogen stores (and maybe even catabolizing muscle mass which would be akin to taking one step forward and 1/2 a step back).
So with your way of thinking Diamonds why stop there? Why not do 1000 sets per bodyparts? Why not 500? Why not 100? Well Michalik was using every drug under the sun and would of looked lanky next to Yates so I dont agree with the "obsessive compulsive" hammer myself into oblivion thought mentality. Ever see some of those huge superheavy powerlifters (who do limited movements in their training)? Did Ronnie Coleman and Johnny Jackson look like they were lacking huge gobs of muscle mass doing limited powerlifting movements before venturing into bodybuilding? No they both looked like smaller versions of themselves today.
Thats the whole problem with this sport--its based on peoples "oh my god I wont grow if I dont do this and that and that over there"....its all about obsessive compulsiveness.
Ill tell you what I think is sad. I got guys gaining 20-50lbs in a year repeatedly, from pro's down to top amateurs down to gymrats. Im pretty sure that Ive proven my body of work many times over. I feel sorry for guys who are doing 20 sets per bodypart and spending 3 plus hours in the gym "because they feel if they dont, they wont grow"........and they end up 6-10lbs larger in a years time. What a waste of time for what comes out to less gains than for people who grasped that this is all about progression.

[SwoleCat]

You definitely see a lot more people as a whole OVERTRAINING than you see UNDERTRAINING.

~SC~

[diamonds]

DC, you are very reputable among many people (not just limited to those on this forum). By no means am I bagging on you or your program. I have seen many people attest to your program. I am just trying to fully understand the concept of the program before I just jump in an do it. Personally, I don't believe that most people are capable of training the way this program is designed. Sure, if you were there coaching them and pushing them through the whole workout they could, but not on their own. I think all of us are capable of stepping it up a few notches no matter how hadr we think we are training. I'm sure if you took one day and watched most people do a workout based on your program, you would laugh and say "no wonder you're not making any gains, you aren't working close to hard enough".
One could get away with doing just one set to complete failure and combining it with extreme stretching. However, most people do not push themselves even close to what their max potential is. Therefore they are not benefiting from the program as it is intended. For example, a guy could go through your workout and really feel like he pushed himself on one good all-out set with rest pause and stretching. Now if he did the next workout with [b] you [b] training him, he would be pushed way beyond his imagination. Way beyond what he thought was complete failure
I have ben lifting for about 10 years and have a pretty good understanding of bodybuilding and muscle mechanics. I am just now starting to figure out how to push myself to the max with the least amount of work. I am currently doing the HIT routine and the other day I did 3 sets of over-head DB presses. Set 1: 110 X 10 Set 2: 125 X 5 Set 3: 100 X 13
This is all I did for Triceps and my sh*t was sore for 4 days! I never thought it was possible but I clearly proved myself wrong. I used to kick the crap out of my arms but not anymore. My arms are currently 18 1/2 inches cold and my triceps are very impressive

[majorpecs]

You definitely see a lot more people as a whole OVERTRAINING than you see UNDERTRAINING.

~SC~

AMEN...i don't know how many of my friends I've tried to get this through to. They start working out and go 6 days a week and never give their body a chance to recover. Then they end up getting burnt out and stop working out totally. I think a very important part of the whole process is RECOVERY, and the DC method along with several others, totally maximize the recovery process and that's why people see such good gains on it.

[NotSmall]

You definitely see a lot more people as a whole OVERTRAINING than you see UNDERTRAINING.

~SC~

My chest is still lagging because for the first few years I trained I kicked the shit out of it constantly, and the best part is as I noticed it falling behind I just kept adding exercises and sets!
I have since adopted a training routine influenced heavily by DC and my chest is finally catching up some.

[Jonnycatz]

Hey Doggcrap? Would u consider it beneficial to perform additional extreme stretching on non-workout days? Perhaps it would help with recovery or possibly enhance gains? or not? Thanx