Am I overtraining? (Newbie)

**-Jaybird-** · 08-18-2006, 06:31 AM

Just starting my 2nd year of weight training, I’m a newbie. I’m 21yrs old, 5’8-185lbs @ maybe 25%ish bf (im not real lean), I started at 155. Anyway I plan on cutting but right now I’m trying to bulk up more, I’m getting gains but they’ve been getting a lot slower. I’ve always had a pretty good frame, but here is where I am now going on 14 months

Neck 16”
Arms 15” (solid)
Chest 42” (solid)
Quads 25” (solid)
Calf 18” (solid)
Waist 35” (sooo not solid)

Anyway I started off doing a basic routine it which looked like this. This is my OLD split.

Mon: Chest/Bis/Abs
Flat Dumbbell Press 3/8
Incline Dumbbell Press 3/8
Incline Dumbbell Fly 3/8
Barbell Curls 3/8
Hammer Curls 3/8
Crunches 4/Failure

Tues: Off

Wed: Shoulders/Traps/Tris
Side Lat Raise 3/8
Forward Lat Raise 3/8
Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3/8
Shrugs 3/8
Skull Crusher 3/8
Triceps Pushdown 3/8

Thurs: Off

Fri: Back/Legs/Abs
One Arm Row 3/8
Barbell Row 3/8
Pulldowns 3/8
Leg Press 3/8
Leg Curls 3/8
Calf Raise 3/8
Crunches 4/Failure

Sat: Off
Sun: Off

Having never seriously lifted before I saw phenomenal gains off this routine. I packed on 20lbs in the first 3 months. Gains slowed down a lot and I stopped for a couple months to cut. I started up my bulking routine again and my gains were still progressing but very slowly and my lifts were only slightly increasing. Also, my muscles didn’t feel like they were getting hit very hard even when I increased the weight. I figured it was time for a more advanced routine so I reworked it to this one…

Mon: Chest/Bis
Bench Press 4/10
Incline Bench Press 4/10
Incline Fly 4/12
Barbell Curl 4/12
Hammer Curl: 4/10

Tues: Shoulders/Tris
Dumbbell Shoulder Press 4/10
Side Lat Raise 4/12
Forward Raise 4/12
Skull Crusher 4/10
Triceps Pushdown 4/10

Weds: Off

Thurs: Back/Traps
Deadlift 4/12
One Arm Row 4/12
Pulldowns 4/12
Dumbbell Shrugs 4/12
Behind Barbell Shrugs 4/12

Friday: Legs/Abs
Squats 4/12
Leg Press 4/12
Leg Curls 4/12
Calf Raise 4/12
Crunches 4/Failure
Reverse Crunches 4/Failure

Sat: Cheat Day
Sun: Off

I really like this split, but its been rough. I switch out exercises every 2 weeks, but they stay similar. I only switch it up to use dumbbells, machines, or cables doing the same type of exercize.

My diet pretty good, I’m eating balanced and every 2 hours and I’m definitely getting enough protein and I never eat crap. With this new routine I can feel my muscles getting worked again and I like it. However I struggle to get through each day and I sometimes feel soreness for up to 2 days. I’m worried that I might be overtraining a little. Gains seem to be good; I'm lifting more but I get tired faster. Sometimes I need overly long rests between sets which I don’t like and by the time I finish the last set of each exercise I feel drained as hell. It still seems like I’m getting better gains as far as lifting goes but it’s hard to tell cause I’ve only been at it for a month. So what do you guys think, which split is better? I think my new one is but I’m concerned I might have added too much volume. I figured I’m a little more advanced now and I should be able to handle increased volume though. I need input from you experienced guys, I’m still fairly new to this and I need to know what should “feel right”, I’ve read books on weight training but they just tell me what I should be doing and are pretty vague about how I should be feeling. I thought about lowering the weights so I wouldn’t feel so drained, but isn’t going for the max weight I can lift for as many reps as I can manage what I should be doing? I’ve always done that and I’ve always thought lowering weight is a step backwards unless I’m trying to cut.

**FullMoonHowlingWolf** · 08-20-2006, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by -Jaybird-

Just starting my 2nd year of weight training, I’m a newbie. I’m 21yrs old, 5’8-185lbs @ maybe 25%ish bf (im not real lean), I started at 155. Anyway I plan on cutting but right now I’m trying to bulk up more, I’m getting gains but they’ve been getting a lot slower. I’ve always had a pretty good frame, but here is where I am now going on 14 months

Neck 16”
Arms 15” (solid)
Chest 42” (solid)
Quads 25” (solid)
Calf 18” (solid)
Waist 35” (sooo not solid)

Mon: Chest/Bis
Bench Press 4/10
Incline Bench Press 4/10
Incline Fly 4/12
Barbell Curl 4/12
Hammer Curl: 4/10

Tues: Shoulders/Tris
Dumbbell Shoulder Press 4/10
Side Lat Raise 4/12
Forward Raise 4/12
Skull Crusher 4/10
Triceps Pushdown 4/10

Weds: Off

Thurs: Back/Traps
Deadlift 4/12
One Arm Row 4/12
Pulldowns 4/12
Dumbbell Shrugs 4/12
Behind Barbell Shrugs 4/12

Friday: Legs/Abs
Squats 4/12
Leg Press 4/12
Leg Curls 4/12
Calf Raise 4/12
Crunches 4/Failure
Reverse Crunches 4/Failure

Sat: Cheat Day
Sun: Off

I really like this split, but its been rough. I switch out exercises every 2 weeks, but they stay similar. I only switch it up to use dumbbells, machines, or cables doing the same type of exercize.

My diet pretty good, I’m eating balanced and every 2 hours and I’m definitely getting enough protein and I never eat crap. With this new routine I can feel my muscles getting worked again and I like it. However I struggle to get through each day and I sometimes feel soreness for up to 2 days. I’m worried that I might be overtraining a little. Gains seem to be good; I'm lifting more but I get tired faster. Sometimes I need overly long rests between sets which I don’t like and by the time I finish the last set of each exercise I feel drained as hell. It still seems like I’m getting better gains as far as lifting goes but it’s hard to tell cause I’ve only been at it for a month. So what do you guys think, which split is better? I think my new one is but I’m concerned I might have added too much volume. I figured I’m a little more advanced now and I should be able to handle increased volume though. I need input from you experienced guys, I’m still fairly new to this and I need to know what should “feel right”, I’ve read books on weight training but they just tell me what I should be doing and are pretty vague about how I should be feeling. I thought about lowering the weights so I wouldn’t feel so drained, but isn’t going for the max weight I can lift for as many reps as I can manage what I should be doing? I’ve always done that and I’ve always thought lowering weight is a step backwards unless I’m trying to cut.

Forget your 1st split and stick with the 2nd, only switch the days I highlighted in red, so that your shoulders and tris will get enough rest. You shouldn’t do shoulders and tris the day after your chest because these are secondary muscles that get worked while training your chest and vise versa. IMO with approximately 25% BF you shouldn't be bulking up. You should cut, until you get the BF% in the lower teens and then consider bulking. Your sets and reps should be fine, but I'd suggest upping your reps a few on each exercise and shortening your rest period each workout until you are about 30 seconds between sets. When are you doing cardio? Try doing cardio on your days off in the AM on an empty stomach for optimal fat burning. Also, you can do abs more than once a week. I hope that this helps you.

**-Jaybird-** · 08-21-2006, 03:50 AM

Thanks, the BF percentage was a guess but I looked at some pictures of other members and it made me think I guessed too high. I had it done at my gym and I came back at 18%, I don't look fat I'm just not cut up. I still think you're right though, I'm going to shoot for 12% and start bulking up using the revised 2nd split. Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.

**Kale** · 08-21-2006, 03:59 AM

Originally Posted by FullMoonHowlingWolf

Forget your 1st split and stick with the 2nd, only switch the days I highlighted in red, so that your shoulders and tris will get enough rest. You shouldn’t do shoulders and tris the day after your chest because these are secondary muscles that get worked while training your chest and vise versa. IMO with approximately 25% BF you shouldn't be bulking up. You should cut, until you get the BF% in the lower teens and then consider bulking. Your sets and reps should be fine, but I'd suggest upping your reps a few on each exercise and shortening your rest period each workout until you are about 30 seconds between sets. When are you doing cardio? Try doing cardio on your days off in the AM on an empty stomach for optimal fat burning. Also, you can do abs more than once a week. I hope that this helps you.

I agree, mainly becaise the second split is exactly what I do

Man you have got fvcking huge calves compared to the rest of you !!!!

***perfectbeast2001*** · 08-21-2006, 04:29 AM

split looks fine. 99% of problems stem from diet. If you are not happy with gains then post your diet for critique. What you call a good diet may not be good for your goals.

**-Jaybird-** · 08-21-2006, 01:39 PM

Man you have got fvcking huge calves compared to the rest of you !!!!

I hear this all the time, biggest muscles I have and they look the most toned too

Its just something I was born with. My upper body sucks in comparison, its actually pretty frustrating. People see me doing 500lb leg presses and 400lb calf raises, then see me hit the bench and struggle with 205 they look at me like "WTF?"

**FullMoonHowlingWolf** · 08-21-2006, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by -Jaybird-

Thanks, the BF percentage was a guess but I looked at some pictures of other members and it made me think I guessed too high. I had it done at my gym and I came back at 18%, I don't look fat I'm just not cut up. I still think you're right though, I'm going to shoot for 12% and start bulking up using the revised 2nd split. Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.

You're welcome Jaybird. Keep working hard and you'll reach all your goals.

**DSM4Life** · 08-21-2006, 10:04 PM

What you have :

Mon: Chest/Bis
Tues: Shoulders/Tris
Weds: Off
Thurs: Back/Traps
Friday: Legs/Abs
Sat: Cheat Day
Sun: Off

Try a better split to help hit the bigger muscles harder.
Mon chest
Tues back
Wed: off
Thur shoulders
fri arms
sat: legs/abs
sun Off

This way you can pound each muscle 100% and not just "get through" the second. This setup also gives a decent recovery time for each muscle.

**FullMoonHowlingWolf** · 08-21-2006, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by DSM4Life

Try a better split to help hit the bigger muscles harder.
Mon chest
Tues back
Wed: off
Thur shoulders
fri arms
sat: legs/abs
sun Off

This way you can pound each muscle 100% and not just "get through" the second. This setup also gives a decent recovery time for each muscle.

I agree. This is a good split DSM4Life.

**Warrior** · 08-22-2006, 01:40 AM

Are you progressing? Everyone is different as far as what leads to maximizing training gains. Are you able to come back week after week and make gains? If not, then you are doing something wrong. But it could just as easily be your diet or sleeping patterns instead of your training split.

**FullMoonHowlingWolf** · 08-22-2006, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by -Jaybird-

I hear this all the time, biggest muscles I have and they look the most toned too

Its just something I was born with. My upper body sucks in comparison, its actually pretty frustrating. People see me doing 500lb leg presses and 400lb calf raises, then see me hit the bench and struggle with 205 they look at me like "WTF?"

It's just genetics. Wishful thinking would have you be able to swap your calves for your chest! But don't fret, you just have to work harder to build up that chest.