Belted or unbelted squatting

[javerton]

Here was my response after reading many poeples answers.

Damn I hate all these black and white reponses to non black and white questions. But, I am guilty of them too at times so I shouldn't be disappointed when others I respect do. Here are some thoughts on the "belt Vs. no belt squatting. I will let you sort out the conclusions.

I squat xxx hundred lbs and never use a belt.

****ing great, can a borrow YOUR bodies bio-mechanics, femur to shin ratio, femur to torso ratio, overall torso length, fast twitch to slow twitch fiber distribution, and neural recruitment patterns?

Before I had trained a lot of people I would always bark a response about "what I did/do" Know what? When you train 70+ people at a time you quickly discover that whatever the **** "I do" is totally irrelevant for a large percentage of the lifters. Whoever said God created all mean equally sure as hell didn't train a varying segment of the lifting populace. I know lifters that have a femur torso ratio that makes upright squatting with big weights without a belt seem easy. I know other lifters that have a WAY stronger core, but due to structural and likely neural differences absolutely need the belt to perform maximally with big weight with any degree of safety.

You will always have a weak core if you use the belt when lifting heavy.

Hey, I know a bunch of guys that bought into the same logic about using straps when deadlifting. WOW, what an earth shattering concept. Lets see, we can not use the straps and help build a stronger grip.......at the expense of work that could have been done if using straps for the:

Quads
Hams
Glutes
Spinal erectors
lats
mid-back
Traps
Abs

WOW, what a deal, we worked our grip at the expense of working almost the whole ****ing body. Damn that is some powerful reasoning at work.

I can do grip work as accessory lifts. Who'da thunkit??

If your squat is 50-75 lbs less when unbelted and you are at more risk for injury than if you had the belt on (and BTW, those numbers are how much less many lifters use without the belt) I would suggest that you start training the hell out of the core while squatting with the belt.

Kimbo made a very good point that inter and intra muscular coordination can be thrown off when wearing the belt, which brings up the next common sense point that some have already made. Use the belt only when you have to. I only put on the belt when the weight gets reasonably heavy. How much is relative to YOUR capacity and body type. If I don't have at LEAST 405 on the bar, I don't wear the belt. But I will wear it doing a warm-up single with 405 or a set of 15 with 405.

If your bodies mechanics suggest belt use on heavy squats, I suggest it is used on all sets at 80% max.

I also suggest that if you don't need to wear the best you keep it off. This is where confusion and finger pointing arises. Lifter X squats 600 no belt or wraps, Lifter Y risks injury, and has a squat resembling a piss poor good morning with anything over 450 without the belt. So lifter X simply states that lifter Y has a weak core and is belt dependent without ever taking in the other lifters proportions/bio-mechanics and fiber/neural , genetics and state of development/conditioning.

You need to work the core muscles with accessory lifts.

DUH! You need bulletproof abs/spinal erectors/hip flexors, and hams if you are to squat heavy let alone heavy without a belt.

Many competitive lifters don't use a belt and they don't need too because their core is strong. Well maybe in wonderland, but in the real world almost all powerlifters use a belt, 95% probably, and the VAST majority of Olympic lifters too.

After lots of rambling, here is my opinion.

Whether you wear a belt or not heavy core work other than squats or deads are a requirement.

Some people simply do not need a belt to perform at extremely high levels. They are NOT the average lifter in my experience. Your experience may vary. If it truly doesn't help your lifts much and doesn't add to overall "tightness" and sense increased stability and performance don't use it, but to argue that it doesn't add tp performance, stability, and safety for most users is lunacy and ignores the facts.

We are all very different in our physical a well as mental makeup and to believe that "this is how I do it so it must be best/correct for everyone is very limited thinking.

Iron Addict

http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7968

[Kibble]

I don't use a bealt because it pinches the shit out of me when I bend over. I was deadlifting 375lbs and I had to drop it after 1 rep because the belt cut my stomach(it pinched it enough to cause bleeding)

[stevey_6t9]

i dont even know why theres an argument for wearing a belt or not. at the end of the day no one cares.

[javerton]

I don't use a bealt because it pinches the shit out of me when I bend over. I was deadlifting 375lbs and I had to drop it after 1 rep because the belt cut my stomach(it pinched it enough to cause bleeding)

That's not normal bro, what kind of belt were you using? It would of been the belt, not your body makesup, I use this one, it's perfect:

http://www.prowriststraps.com/inc/sdetail/87153

Except in leather. Your belt needs to be at LEAST 4 inches wide.

i dont even know why theres an argument for wearing a belt or not. at the end of the day no one cares.

I'm sure people would care if they're exposing themselves to the unnecessary risk of injury and slower gains..

[LeroyB]

If you are not hurt you should not wear anything that will weaken you - belt.

[javerton]

If you are not hurt you should not wear anything that will weaken you - belt.

Please don't post anything without at least a basis for your statement.

[Mr.Rose]

using a belt to help lift the weight IMHO means you dont have any core strength. I Dead lift 250kg with no belt, i think thats around 550lbs and i dont need a belt.

Leave the belts for the power-lifter deadlifitng 1000lbs and fix your own core strength.

Same goes with squats, same goes with anything. You dont have a back problem, so dont make yourself get one. WIth proper technique there should be NO reason to wear a belt unless your nursing and injured back or your deadlifint 800+ pounds.

Find me any scientific article that shows that belts are good for you. You will see barley professionals, if any where them.

However since belts have become the 'cliche' of bodybuilding you wont see my point of view because you have always worn one. I believe belts are an ego thing, i laugh at people who wear them and are deadlifitng 100kgs or 220lbs
Its liek alcohol, it is one of the WORST drugs on the planet yet because it is socially acceptable it is still not illegal, but something as good for you as steroids are classified in the same category as narcotics.

Like i said, please find me a scientific study on the use of belts WITH references.

[LeroyB]

Please don't post anything without at least a basis for your statement.

The Basis (should be pretty easy to understand if you know how muscles and supports work).

A belt supports your muscles AKA makes them do less work and or keeps them from doing work all together.

For people with no back problems this will help you create them by weakening the muscles.

Simple.
BUT incase you are dense (and by you flaming me I am guessing you are):
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/david9.htm
From the above

As stated earlier, many people use this equipment for the wrong reason, and use it incorrectly also. The downfall to using these items is that you weaken the muscles that you are aiding. For example, using a belt weakens your lower back strength, and using wrist straps decreases your grip strength. This is the main reason why you want to use aids only when absolutely necessary.

I can link you some more if you are still in flame mode.

[DarnGoodLookin]

The Basis (should be pretty easy to understand if you know how muscles and supports work).

A belt supports your muscles AKA makes them do less work and or keeps them from doing work all together.

For people with no back problems this will help you create them by weakening the muscles.

Simple.
BUT incase you are dense (and by you flaming me I am guessing you are):
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/david9.htm
From the above


I can link you some more if you are still in flame mode.

I highly doubt that doing squats/deadlift while using a belt will decrease your lower back strength, same goes for wrist straps... I doubt they decrease your grip strength. They may however allow you to develope your muscles to the point at which, your weight on the exercise is more than the support muscles can handle.

[LeroyB]

This thread is going to read a bit odd since your re-wrote your entire first post Javerton.
Good work.

[Mr.Rose]

^^,

that is wrong my friend. Your wrist strength is governed by the strength of sever muscle groups but most importantly your flexor digitorum heads, flexor carpi heads, palmaris and flexor pollicis heads. The strength of these muscles, or wrist extensors are what determine how strong your grip is, if you use a wrist strap you completely take all load of your wrist extensor's. Over prolonged use, the neglect your wrist extensors face will ensure that they begin to weaken. This is scientific fact, move it or loose it as they say. For example, if i gave you a machine to help do your bicept curls, yes you can how lift 2x the weight, but your bicepts are being used 50% less, and hence over time they will weaken. This is just a fictional example, but one that supports my point. Constant use of wrist straps and belts will weaken all muscle stabilizer's including dynamic and antagonist stabilizer's. Without these stabilizers being at a level where they can support you, your movement will be compromised and injury will be sure to follow. For example, over a long time you have always used a belt. Your stabilizers are now weakened because they are not used, they are muscles, just like any other, like if you stopped training your biceps, they will weaken. Now if you tried to lift the weight without your belt you will surely fail, and most likely injure yourself.

Please don't begin an argument with nothing but your personal opinions, this is science, and if you want to prove me wrong, then bring to the table some scientific studies that prove your point.

If not... then be quite.

[Mr.Rose]

My above post was targeted at darngoodlookin, I'm with you LeroyB, .

[javerton]

This thread is going to read a bit odd since your re-wrote your entire first post Javerton.
Good work.

The post was not even written by me, that's pretty clear. I just like to repost things that are good reads. I didn't change it at all, it was written years and years ago, I'm sure he wrote that bit because he knew the silly guys would come in with the no belt talk.

The fact of the matter is all the knowledgeable trainees use them, as well as bodybuilders (it's just for the looks though I swear!). Also, refer to the second part of the 1st post to answer ALL of your questions against wearing a belt, why would you sacrifice working basically your whole damn body for a bit of a core workout? Sounds totally idiotic to me.

[LeroyB]

Your the man Javerton - you win ok.
Riddle me this simple question.

Will wearing a belt when your are not injured weaken core muscles or no?
Yes or No answer would we brilliant.

[javerton]

My god, ok I'm done here. The answer to your question - no it will NOT weaken your core muscles. Of course you'll rage at that so I'll answer further. It won't strengthen relative to wearing a belt.

I will repost this part of the post again and if people are too stupid to follow it, so be it.

"Hey, I know a bunch of guys that bought into the same logic about using straps when deadlifting. WOW, what an earth shattering concept. Lets see, we can not use the straps and help build a stronger grip.......at the expense of work that could have been done if using straps for the:

Quads
Hams
Glutes
Spinal erectors
lats
mid-back
Traps
Abs

WOW, what a deal, we worked our grip at the expense of working almost the whole ****ing body. Damn that is some powerful reasoning at work.

I can do grip work as accessory lifts. Who'da thunkit??"

Apply that to wearing a belt for squatting. They reduce the risk of injury greatly and guess what, you can work your core out another time, without wasting working out more than half your damn body (to an extent). My god it's like people here don't know, more weight used = more muscle. Silly silly.

[LeroyB]

Firstly this is not about straps so please save all that for some other rant.
Secondly if you use do not understand that wearing a support belt at any time the muscles that are being supported DO NOT CARRY THE INTENDED LOAD - THUS WEAKEN.
Its simple Kinesiology buddy.
The reason squats and deadlifts are such epic movements is because of all of the muscle recruitment.
Keep telling yourself whatever you want to but wearing a belt will weaken your supporting muscles and help you get injured as you progress.

[javerton]

Firstly this is not about straps so please save all that for some other rant.
Secondly if you use do not understand that wearing a support belt at any time the muscles that are being supported DO NOT CARRY THE INTENDED LOAD - THUS WEAKEN.
Its simple Kinesiology buddy.
The reason squats and deadlifts are such epic movements is because of all of the muscle recruitment.
Keep telling yourself whatever you want to but wearing a belt will weaken your supporting muscles and help you get injured as you progress.

Firstly, if you can not even fathom a simple analogy, I suggest you are too stupid to be on the internet. It applies perfectly to this situation - so good job on the strawman.

Your core will not weaken, it still gets worked, just to a lesser extent, as well as in other exercises. It just won't strengthen at the same rate as if you weren't wearing one (but maybe you could do some core work whodathunk?!?!). If you can't stomach this simple post, then I suggest you go about doing what you want. Here's another good post:

"I will assume responsibilty for not emphasizing enough to my trainees to WEAR A BELT when doing low rep work. My fualt for making the assumption that everyone knows a belt is needed when doing heavy 5's, 3's, and singles. Yes, you will get some guys that will state that not wearing a belt helps build your core. THAT IS WHAT CORE WORK IS FOR! When you are doing heavy low rep work you need the intra-abdominal stability the belt provides. You will be MUCH less likely to get injured, and in the BIG lifts for 95 % of trainees, moreweiht willbe used. Often MUCH more.

Every sports doctor, physiologist, and sports research expert like Siff, Zatsiorsky, etc, will state that the belt is a benefit when using high loads. Go to a powerlifting meet and see how many guys are taking a max without a belt on.

WEAR THE BELT!!!

Iron Addict"

Fact of the matter is all the most knowledgeable trainers recommend the belt, it's pretty basic stuff. If your ego is getting in the way and you won't admit to being wrong, that's fine. Just go about doing what you're doing. Just informing others, that it's a good thing to have, it prevents injury and allows higher loads. Win/win.

[javerton]

Another good post:

"THAT is what core work is for! I fail to see any benefit of raising injury potential every session, AND using 30-100 lbs LESS on heavy sets to give a bit of additional stimulus to your core when doing heavy squats, deads, good-mornings.

You NEED intra-abdominal pressure to keep the spine in correct alignment and posistion to reduce the risk of injury and increase the load capacity of the core.

In Science and Practice of Strength Training by Zatsiorsky, a chart is shown with a belt on, and belt off. With the belt IAP is approximatly 5.5, without 3.5. THAT is the kind of benefit the belt gives.

Less injury risk, more weight moved. Pretty simple.


IA"

Thread here, all your objections have been refuted in there.
http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/sh...ight=wear+belt

[LeroyB]

Ok I see your logic - wear the belt then do core work later.
But why would you need to do core work later unless your muscles are lagging.
And furthermore this proves the point that wearing a support items does something to restrain those muscles from working wouldn't you say?

The forum post you are linking never address the fact that using a belt weakens your core, they simply advise "Thats what core work is for". By implication they might even agree with me, they certainly do not DISAGREE. Simply ignoring the fact doesn't make it go away.

Here is the article from bb.com I posted before in case you missed it, see the part in bold.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/david9.htm

As stated earlier, many people use this equipment for the wrong reason, and use it incorrectly also. The downfall to using these items is that you weaken the muscles that you are aiding. For example, using a belt weakens your lower back strength, and using wrist straps decreases your grip strength. This is the main reason why you want to use aids only when absolutely necessary.

MORE ------------------------------------------
Wikipedia deadlifts article:

Some weightlifters use special belts to keep their lower back stabilized. Whether or not these belts actually prevent injuries is debated but evidence shows using the belt moves the concentration of pressure within the abdomen towards the anterior, taking pressure off of the spine. Conversely, one school of thought suggests that the use of belts should be minimized, as it does not allow for the development of stabilizer muscles, thereby increasing the potential of serious injury.


MORE--------------------------------------
From your forum post:
http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/sh...1&postcount=41

Belts help anyone squat more, it gives your abs something so stabilize against.

In terms of necessity outside of powerlifting, I don't see it. Like people have posted before, OLY lifters never use belts and they go HEAVY. Their cores are strong and thats the bottom line. If you have an injury that a belt or other supportive gear helps, then by all means, use it.

This kind of gear become a crutch to those who compete as well as those who don't. I've noticed squatting without a belt helped my overall lifts increase faster, because my stabilizers were stronger and better conditioned.

You can't max without a belt if you train one and safely get away with it, but if you never use one, there's no real worries IMO. Just don't do anything stupid and get cocky.

A good example of a guy who's strong without a belt is ED Coan. For a guy who's 44, he's recently
pulled 800 off a platform with NO BELT and he's about 230-240 right now I believe. You CAN go heavy without a belt, you just have to be smart about it.

As well, I've seen people go heavy with GMs w/ a belt, but these appear to be elite guys using 600 lbs or more. I've done seated GMs of about 350 or so (not impressive, i know) with no assistance gear and its never given me a problem, even when I have to squat the damn thing back up to rack it.

It has its place, but if you're not a powerlifter or strongman competitor or protecting an injured area, its going to become crutch, even with heavy weight. The point is just be smart and don't load 500 if you're having time tripling 400 for one set.


LASTLY
Save the personal insults for the playground kid. No one here wants to see read that childish stuff.

[javerton]

Ok, I am not even going to dignify your wikipedia and bb.com references with a response. They are totally null and void. Moving on. Your last post was already responded to and refuted - if you had read the thread further.

"Guess what synthet, for every guy that makes the Olympic team 100,000 can't make the grade. These guys are born to Oly lift. Trying to use them as examples is like trying to state that pro bodybuilders almost all train 5-7 days a week using volume work so everyone else should.

IA"

"Go to any powerlifting meet and I dare you to find a lifter that squats belt-less.

IA"

"Wrong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAuS0...ronglifts.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5Vdt...ronglifts.com/"

"Yes, some Oly lifters do use belts.

Those box jumps were insane!!

IA"

[javerton]

"If it doesn't work for you, don't use it. Andrew is a very small fraction that doesn't use the belt. 99.9% will have a belt on.

IA"

[LeroyB]

Here are some more:

http://kali-yuga.org/?p=468

By using a heavy lifter’s belt whilst lifting heavy objects you are actually weakening your back because your core, being artificially supported, doesn’t have to exert as much effort. Outwardly this seems safer, but in reality you may be setting yourself up for further injuries and retarding your progress.

In reply to:

Ok, I am not even going to dignify your wikipedia and bb.com references with a response. They are totally null and void. Moving on. Your last post was already responded to and refuted - if you had read the thread further.

Just because you choose not to "dignify" some of my information doesn't mean its not there and or inaccurate.

All you have to admit is that wearing a belt will weaken your core.
Its really really simple.

You are wearing a supporting instrument, like a sling, or a cast, or anything else that takes the WORK off of a muscles or group of muscles.


Lets try to simplify.

1) Wearing a belt makes your core muscles do less work than not wearing a belt:
True or False?

2) When you force a muslce to do less work than its meant to do it weakens.
True or False?

[javerton]

1) Wearing a belt makes your core muscles do less work than not wearing a belt:
True or False?

2) When you force a muslce to do less work than its meant to do it weakens.
True or False?

True of course.

It does not weaken, just strengthens at a slower weight relative to not wearing one - well guess what? Half your body will, in your argument "weaken" if you DON'T wear the belt as it;s not getting the proper load it can handle. Solution? Wear the belt!! Rocket science, I think not.

Just reread my post, if you don't want to wear your belt, more power to you. It took you like 5 posts to realise I was advising core work along with wearing a belt so it may take another few posts for you to understand the other basic principles. I'm done here, people can use this info if they wish, or not. Up to the individual.

[LeroyB]

Originally Posted by LeroyB View Post
1) Wearing a belt makes your core muscles do less work than not wearing a belt:
True or False?

2) When you force a muscle to do less work than its meant to do it weakens.
True or False?

True of course.

Should have just agreed way back here @ post 5 bud, and saved us some time.

If you are not hurt you should not wear anything
that will weaken you - belt.

Cheers.

[javerton]

Should have just agreed way back here @ post 5 bud, and saved us some time.



Cheers.

I meant True to the first one, and elaborated on the second part. You could have implored that quite easily. To each their own though, I would of thought it pretty clear which side to take - but I'm sure others will take the other way.

[Mr.Rose]

There was a full fledged debate without me...

[FireGuy]

I love debates like this one. Two interesting points of views and keeping things pretty respectful at the same time. For what it's worth I agree with Javerton 100%.

[dec11]

The Basis (should be pretty easy to understand if you know how muscles and supports work).

A belt supports your muscles AKA makes them do less work and or keeps them from doing work all together.

For people with no back problems this will help you create them by weakening the muscles.

Simple.
BUT incase you are dense (and by you flaming me I am guessing you are):
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/david9.htm
From the above


I can link you some more if you are still in flame mode.

yeah but your training your legs when squatting, thts what its for, so what about your core?! sure you will train that seperately anyway, so hows it being 'cheated'?, belts are designed to protect your spine, discs etc. ive plifted for 16yrs and wouldnt squat or deadlift without one. common sense guys

[Mr.Rose]

Ok, enough of this gay time old debate.

This video answers everything!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nppzGV1U8y8

As for the belt, honestly, i personally think they do more bad then good unless you have a back injury. BUT, everyone has their own opinion, and until some legitimate source provides a scientific experiment, it will always be as it has always been, personal preference.

The only thing i don't agree with is that when an belted lifter thinks he can lift more than an unbelted lifter. If you think your stronger than an unbelted lifter, then take your belt of and lets prove it.... RAW!. Otherwise, shutup, wear your belt and keep lifting, no one cares, go wine to your wife, but i doubt she even cares.

That is all. .

[DangerDave]

excellent info both sides. Great debate. I'm unbelted all the way, but would never lift so heavy that I'd need a belt. And I have a life long back injury. Keep it safe fellas and keep that core strong. Via unbelted or through supplementary work

[soulstealer]

OMG how complicated is this.... If your core can handle the weight safely let it do so and get stronger... if not use a belt so you dont get injured.... its entirely dependent on feel!!! argument over.... have a nice day

[javerton]

excellent info both sides. Great debate. I'm unbelted all the way, but would never lift so heavy that I'd need a belt. And I have a life long back injury. Keep it safe fellas and keep that core strong. Via unbelted or through supplementary work

No offence mate that's great it works for you for NOW, but with all due respect, don't be such a ****ing tard. I don't mean to be offensive but you've got a life long back injury and you're not wearing one. Come on..

OMG how complicated is this.... If your core can handle the weight safely let it do so and get stronger... if not use a belt so you dont get injured.... its entirely dependent on feel!!! argument over.... have a nice day

Pretty much.. Though those who truly do not need belts will be less than 1% of the population.

It's not dependent on "feel," most people do not and will not know enough about reading their body to realise. I just don't see why you wouldn't wear the belt tbh.

Ok, enough of this gay time old debate.

This video answers everything!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nppzGV1U8y8

As for the belt, honestly, i personally think they do more bad then good unless you have a back injury. BUT, everyone has their own opinion, and until some legitimate source provides a scientific experiment, it will always be as it has always been, personal preference.

The only thing i don't agree with is that when an belted lifter thinks he can lift more than an unbelted lifter. If you think your stronger than an unbelted lifter, then take your belt of and lets prove it.... RAW!. Otherwise, shutup, wear your belt and keep lifting, no one cares, go wine to your wife, but i doubt she even cares.

That is all. .

That video had nothing on wearing belts as far as I can see. Go to a powerlifting meet and see how many of them don't wear belts. Go watch the guys at westside and elitefts train also, and get back to me:P.

[soulstealer]

no offence mate that's great it works for you for now, but with all due respect, don't be such a ****ing tard. I don't mean to be offensive but you've got a life long back injury and you're not wearing one. Come on..

Pretty much.. Though those who truly do not need belts will be less than 1% of the population.

It's not dependent on "feel," most people do not and will not know enough about reading their body to realise. I just don't see why you wouldn't wear the belt tbh.

http://journals.lww.com/ajpmr/abstra..._muscle.8.aspx well now you see... It removes the force from the trunk decreasing overall trunk mass when used for a prolonged period... It also stands to reason that the trunk would develop more slowly from constant lifting belt use... In other words only use it for really heave lifts when you need it to prevent injury as i stated in my other post.....


That video had nothing on wearing belts as far as i can see:d. Go to a powerlifting meet and see how many of them don't wear belts. Go watch the guys at westside and elitefts train also, and get back to me.

[LeroyB]

Though those who truly do not need belts will be less than 1% of the population.

What is your source for this information?

[javerton]

Again, those studies are scientifically ambiguous as to the definition of "trained individuals" and the details of the conducting of the study. It matters little if you find one study, real life experience from the best trainers in the world, along with the best athletes yield wearing belts for almost everyone, for those with average genetics and those with pro genes alike.

Go ahead and read what I've put fourth, if you still wish to do your own thing more power to you, it just screams idiocy to me, but more power to you I guess. Just trying to help fellas, hope some people take it on board and benefit from it.

[soulstealer]

Again, those studies are scientifically ambiguous as to the definition of "trained individuals" and the details of the conducting of the study. It matters little if you find one study, real life experience from the best trainers in the world, along with the best athletes yield wearing belts for almost everyone, for those with average genetics and those with pro genes alike.

Go ahead and read what I've put fourth, if you still wish to do your own thing more power to you, it just screams idiocy to me, but more power to you I guess. Just trying to help fellas, hope some people take it on board and benefit from it.

Your rebutle for my post about only using a belt if your core cant handle the weight safely was "look at guys squatting 800lbs" well...... obviously its too much weight for their spine to handle safely without a belt!!!! and now your saying your beliefs are based your own personal science and its my burden to prove you wrong... you know what, I'm done giving a damn... believe what you want...

[stevey_6t9]

What is your source for this information?

I think he is exaggerating. My gym I see about 50% of people who squat wear a belt. Including myself.

[Kratos]

I highly doubt that doing squats/deadlift while using a belt will decrease your lower back strength, same goes for wrist straps... I doubt they decrease your grip strength. They may however allow you to develope your muscles to the point at which, your weight on the exercise is more than the support muscles can handle.

^this^

we aren't talking about normal physiologic loads here people
men weren't designed to walk around with 500 pounds on their back

as for cheating by being about to lift more with a belt
I don't know how anybody can be against having a greater overload stimulus on the legs when training legs. If your back is limiting you, then you aren't maxing out your legs, duh.

The assistance and/or protection provided by a support belt during exercise may be a result of increased abdominal pressure (IAP), feedback to the exerciser on body position, reduced compressive and shear forces on the spine, and restricted torso movement (Smith et al., 1996).

Those who lift heavy without a belt will get injured eventually. For me squats up to and including 315 are fine unbelted and I'll do them to work the core and then do my heavy sets belted. I have back problems and will get injured if I don't use.

[Kratos]

re-post