time in between sets?

[musclestack]

What is the general rule of thumb for the amount of time in between sets? My goals right now are solely to add mass and strength; not cutting, if that makes a difference.

[Dukkit]

I change my rest periods with my training goals.

For mass and strength - I take as long as I need until I catch my breath. Cant go 100% on a lift, if you cant breathe; is my thought process.

For leaning out/cutting - I barely rest. I keep moving. Ill do another exericise. Ill superset, dropset, etc.
Keeps the heart rate up and the calories/fat burning.

Mass - 2-3 mins

Cutting - 30-45 seconds

[Swifto]

I change my rest periods with my training goals.

For mass and strength - I take as long as I need until I catch my breath. Cant go 100% on a lift, if you cant breathe; is my thought process.

For leaning out/cutting - I barely rest. I keep moving. Ill do another exericise. Ill superset, dropset, etc.
Keeps the heart rate up and the calories/fat burning.

Mass - 2-3 mins

Cutting - 30-45 seconds

I tend to keep it at 1-2mins no matter what I'm doing.

If I'm cutting, I rely on diet and cardio, not resistance exercises, unless I'm doing some sort of circuit.

[devildog1967]

In a ideal world its around 3 mins for mass and too be honest each rep should be 8 seconds (SLOW AND CONTROLLED ) so you would be a long time in the gym..lol.
Cutting should be 30 seconds to 1 min

I tend to work on enough rest for someone else to do there set .. so it would be around 2 min mark.(FOR MASS)

[BigBuck6]

All sounds like good advice in my opinion but I will say from time to time exercises will take their toll on you and you may be forced to up your rest times to compensate. Squats and Deadlifts for me are two key exercises that no matter how much cardio I do still leave me short of breath and almost vomiting. My point is listen to your body if need be. Personally, I like being short of breath and just before vomiting but I have issues.

[pebble]

All sounds like good advice in my opinion but I will say from time to time exercises will take their toll on you and you may be forced to up your rest times to compensate. Squats and Deadlifts for me are two key exercises that no matter how much cardio I do still leave me short of breath and almost vomiting. My point is listen to your body if need be. Personally, I like being short of breath and just before vomiting but I have issues.

The lifts an anaerobic. You need train your body to be able to handle the by products of anaerobic training better so that you recovery faster. Cardiovascular training can help, but you need to put some focus on anaerobic threshold training.

Devlidog - 8 seconds? General tempo protocol is 202. And even that is silly. Why should someone spend 4 seconds on the concentric portion of the lift (assuming you are suggesting the 8 seconds is split evenly for concentric and eccentric)? Lift explosively, lower under control.

General ACSM guidelines for rest are based off the energy system/ fiber type used.
1-5 reps 3-5 mins allows for 95-97% of ATP to be restored
5-12 reps 1-2 mins.

But if you are not worried about strength gains do what rest works for you. But I would try to keep it consistent to ensure progress is a result of adaption rather than just having a little more rest (and therefore more energy) to lift heavier weight or more reps.

[spywizard]

depends on if you want to train anaerobicly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_exercise

if you are going for strength and size
3-6 reps recovery hrt rate 90

endurence
8-12 reps 110 hrt rate

stamina
12-24 reps 125 hrt rate..


it also depends on if you want to improve mitochondria, or mytofiberal development..

just sayin

[spywizard]

if you want to be a real experience

8-12 reps with recovered heart rate is 125 5 sets all working sets..

This is what i do and it takes time to get to this level of performance..

Time is typically 30 seconds between sets 1 and 2 but gets longer between 3/4 and 5...

the trick is i want to improve mitochondria function..

[baseline_9]

Depends....

I go by feel.

If immleg pressing to and beyond failure then I'm gona be left on the machine for 60 seconds... Then after rolling off I will spend another 4-5 mins just coming back down to earth.

I I was doing barbell curls the rest would be much shorter. Along the lines of 45-75 seconds.


And I agree with Swifto, I would keep your weigh training as weight training and your cardio just that.

[BigBuck6]

The lifts an anaerobic. You need train your body to be able to handle the by products of anaerobic training better so that you recovery faster. Cardiovascular training can help, but you need to put some focus on anaerobic threshold training.

Devlidog - 8 seconds? General tempo protocol is 202. And even that is silly. Why should someone spend 4 seconds on the concentric portion of the lift (assuming you are suggesting the 8 seconds is split evenly for concentric and eccentric)? Lift explosively, lower under control.

General ACSM guidelines for rest are based off the energy system/ fiber type used.
1-5 reps 3-5 mins allows for 95-97% of ATP to be restored
5-12 reps 1-2 mins.

But if you are not worried about strength gains do what rest works for you. But I would try to keep it consistent to ensure progress is a result of adaption rather than just having a little more rest (and therefore more energy) to lift heavier weight or more reps.

If you read my post than you would see that I am putting quite a big of emphasis on anaerobic threshold training hence the shortness of breathe and the nausea. As far as handling byproducts your body can only be so efficient and able to process so much at a time. Certain conditions can help with byproduct dispersant but then again the more cross sectional area you incorporate or the more muscle you recruit the greater amount of byproduct. The squat and the deadlift are are both closed chain kinematic compound movements that are full body exercises. If someone were not fatigued by either of these movements throughout their whole body then by definition they are not doing the exercise properly.

There are certain reasons to spend more time under tension depending on your specific goals. Generally the body does respond better to explosive concentric and slow and controlled eccentric but I am sure this month's issue of "Muscle and Fitness" did not mention that this also would depend of specific muscle fiber distribution which is unique to every individual. The aforementioned would more benefit a person or specific muscle group with fast twitch type 2 fibers the most. If you were to use this method on say a "generally" slow twitch muscle such as the soleus that time under tension would be more beneficial.

[pebble]

If you read my post than you would see that I am putting quite a big of emphasis on anaerobic threshold training hence the shortness of breathe and the nausea. As far as handling byproducts your body can only be so efficient and able to process so much at a time. Certain conditions can help with byproduct dispersant but then again the more cross sectional area you incorporate or the more muscle you recruit the greater amount of byproduct. The squat and the deadlift are are both closed chain kinematic compound movements that are full body exercises. If someone were not fatigued by either of these movements throughout their whole body then by definition they are not doing the exercise properly.

There are certain reasons to spend more time under tension depending on your specific goals. Generally the body does respond better to explosive concentric and slow and controlled eccentric but I am sure this month's issue of "Muscle and Fitness" did not mention that this also would depend of specific muscle fiber distribution which is unique to every individual. The aforementioned would more benefit a person or specific muscle group with fast twitch type 2 fibers the most. If you were to use this method on say a "generally" slow twitch muscle such as the soleus that time under tension would be more beneficial.

First off I want to say it’s nice to see someone else that clearly has background in exercise physiology.
I was specifically referring to handling by product during exercise. This means increasing enzymatic function/concentration of enzymes responsible for dissipation of lactate and other strong acid ions that alter the strong ion difference (one of three variables that determine acid base status) or learning to better tolerate the results of an acid base shift that results in instantaneous dissociation of h2o into H+ and HO-.
Furthermore you point about fatigue is moot. Everyone fatigues, but it is relative. I fatigue at 5, you fatigue at 1, but we are both fatigued. It doesn’t matter the weight lifted or the amount of muscles used, because it all comes down to enzymatic function which is altered by pH levels. When we have metabolic acidosis ( low pH levels) enzymes responsible for glycolysis and glycogenolysis are inhibited and thus the rate of ATP resynthesis lowers (as a result of diminished glycolytic ATP contributions) and we become “fatigued” – them muscles stop being able to perform work . What we are concerned with is amount of work prior to fatigue and this be can be altered with training.
You can train your body to better tolerate these conditions and increase rate of strong ion disposal by working at and/or near ones lactate or anaerobic threshold. Your body becomes better able to maintain acid base control and thus enzymes continue to work, thus delaying fatigue.

Do not try to tell me fiber variation varies largely among people. It is relatively static among most populations. It runs a standard bell curve just like every other variable in nature. Yes it is well known postural muscles have primarily slow twitch heavily oxidative fibres, but that does not mean that they grow as easily as type 2. You still want to place attention to the fibers that have the most potential to grow.
Moreover, it has been shown that fiber types can flip flop between types (because it is determined by the motor unit, not the fiber). Because the body adapts we can encourage muscles fibers to shift towards fast twitch (which will allow for more growth potential).
I am not saying using higher volumes does not work, but slowing the reps down, does not do anything more than fatigue the muscle prematurely (not as many reps through full range of motion).

[BigBuck6]

First off I want to say it’s nice to see someone else that clearly has background in exercise physiology.
I was specifically referring to handling by product during exercise. This means increasing enzymatic function/concentration of enzymes responsible for dissipation of lactate and other strong acid ions that alter the strong ion difference (one of three variables that determine acid base status) or learning to better tolerate the results of an acid base shift that results in instantaneous dissociation of h2o into H+ and HO-.
Furthermore you point about fatigue is moot. Everyone fatigues, but it is relative. I fatigue at 5, you fatigue at 1, but we are both fatigued. It doesn’t matter the weight lifted or the amount of muscles used, because it all comes down to enzymatic function which is altered by pH levels. When we have metabolic acidosis ( low pH levels) enzymes responsible for glycolysis and glycogenolysis are inhibited and thus the rate of ATP resynthesis lowers (as a result of diminished glycolytic ATP contributions) and we become “fatigued” – them muscles stop being able to perform work . What we are concerned with is amount of work prior to fatigue and this be can be altered with training.
You can train your body to better tolerate these conditions and increase rate of strong ion disposal by working at and/or near ones lactate or anaerobic threshold. Your body becomes better able to maintain acid base control and thus enzymes continue to work, thus delaying fatigue.

Do not try to tell me fiber variation varies largely among people. It is relatively static among most populations. It runs a standard bell curve just like every other variable in nature. Yes it is well known postural muscles have primarily slow twitch heavily oxidative fibres, but that does not mean that they grow as easily as type 2. You still want to place attention to the fibers that have the most potential to grow.
Moreover, it has been shown that fiber types can flip flop between types (because it is determined by the motor unit, not the fiber). Because the body adapts we can encourage muscles fibers to shift towards fast twitch (which will allow for more growth potential).
I am not saying using higher volumes does not work, but slowing the reps down, does not do anything more than fatigue the muscle prematurely (not as many reps through full range of motion).

While I do agree with some of the biochemistry aspects of your argument, I still complete disagree that pH levels are changed the same no matter how much muscle is recruited. With that logic in mind, one could argue that your claiming a small muscle such as the mylohyoid could fatiguing could have the same change in pH as the rectus femoris, semitendinosis, and latissimus dorsi. Now if you are implying that the change in pH within the cell/fiber/motor unit etcetera is the same I may have to lean towards your argument.

As far as fiber types "flip flopping" I would assume you are referring to a study done by Ohio University and published which was most recently updated in 2008. The study was not entirely conclusive and was not peer reviewed.

Mammalian skeletal muscle fiber type transitions
(1997) International Review of Cytology, 170, pp. 143-223.

The study was looked at numerous times after that and what the scientists originally thought happened was a bit different than what actually did. The most recent look at the transition of muscle fibers directly blames a specific type of slow twitch "transition fiber" that do not undergo continuous transition.

Neunhäuserer, D., Zebedin, M., Obermoser, M., Moser, G., Tauber, M., Niebauer, J., & ... Galler, S. (2011). Human skeletal muscle: transition between fast and slow fibre types. Pflugers Archiv European Journal of Physiology, 461(5), 537-543. doi:10.1007/s00424-011-0943-4

Human skeletal muscles consist of different fibre types: slow fibres (slow twitch or type I) containing the myosin heavy chain isoform (MHC)-I and fast fibres (fast twitch or type II) containing MHC-IIa (type IIA) or MHC-IId (type IID). The following order of decreasing kinetics is known: type IID > type IIA >> type I. This order is especially based on the kinetics of stretch activation, which is the most discriminative property among fibre types. In this study we tested if hybrid fibres containing both MHC-IIa and MHC-I (type C fibres) provide a transition in kinetics between fast (type IIA) and slow fibres (type I). Our data of stretch activation kinetics suggest that type C fibres, with different ratios of MHC-IIa and MHC-I, do not provide a continuous transition. Instead, a specialized group of slow fibres, which we called 'transition fibres', seems to provide a transition. Apart of their kinetics of stretch activation, which is most close to that of type IIA, the transition fibres are characterized by large cross-sectional areas and low maximal tensions. The molecular cause for the mechanical properties of the transition fibres is unknown. It is possible that the transition fibres contain an unknown slow MHC isoform, which cannot be separated by biochemical methods. Alternatively, or in addition, isoforms of myofibrillar proteins, other than MHC, and posttranslational modifications of myofibrillar proteins could play a role regarding the characteristics of the transition fibres.

[BigBuck6]

The second article was published and peer-reviewed.