Fatsed Cardio vs PWO Cardio - thinking of changing routine to maximize lifts

[Live for the PUMP]

Your link says an average 150lb man (lmfao ) stores 1800cal glycogen. Your body will use the mist efficient fuel source available......period. With glycogen available it will not canabilize muscle tissue to any great extent. Look into gluconeogenesis and how inefficient it is at converting muscle tissue to glucose, it would only happen in extreme situations. I am familiar with this

People who are losing muscle tissue and blaming it on cardio are simply not eating enough.

Kind of random..but yes I agree.

[baseline_9]

I love how just because some members here have thousands of posts means they MUST be correct.

Your argument is that if I wake up after 8 hours of sleep and no food, and go for a 45 minutes run, I won't lose an ounce of muscle.

bull$#it.

Lol post count means nothing.

We cannot answer this question without knowing the detail..... It's not black and white......

Stats?
Intensity?
Level of glycogen stored?

And most importantly overall calorie intake.....

Lastly, I know there are MANY variables when it comes to losing muscle. Too many to count. However, when you burn calories, without consuming calories beforehand, then you will go into a CATABOLIC modelol this is ironic.... Are you aware that the process of freeing fatty acids from adipose tissue (fat mobilisation) is a CATABOLIC process....ie. if your cardio wasn't considered catabolic then that would mean you released no fatty acids to burn during it..... This is kind of beyond the point but a point worth making..... For those couple vets who shot down my statement as false, google catabolic and the definition. It goes hand in hand with fasted cardio.I am fully aware of the term catabolic and I think you need to understand that we cannot gauge the effects of a cardio session based on on what occurs during that cardio session (hence me saying 'see the bigger picture')......

Not trying to flame here, but everyone has their own opinion. We can't know certainly who is right but we can make educated guesses from experience and sports medicine.

A few last words: Fitness is NOT an exact science. So keep that in mind next time you say something is completely false.

With your last statement you really show your colours.... You were the one who made a bold and extreme statement..... And even closed it with 'There is no argument here'.....

I'm not being a Cvnt to anyone here.... Any time I challenge sum1 I'm not picking on them..... The issues stem form the bent fitness industry and we are all or have all been suckers at one point, playing into there hands....


When I see things that I know (or even think) are wrong I will challenge it..... And I tend to not challenge many topics but this is one I will have a good go at.....

[austinite]

When I see things that I know (or even think) are wrong I will challenge it..... And I tend to not challenge many topics but this is one I will have a good go at.....

That's what I like about you. Nothing wrong with that, it triggers a healthy debate. Unfortunately too many people take it personally.

[baseline_9]

That's what I like about you. Nothing wrong with that, it triggers a healthy debate. Unfortunately too many people take it personally.

Yeh I can see why people take it the wrong way.... I think I probably would have in the past if sum1 questioned some of the 'bro-shit' I used to recommend..... So I don't blame people for taking it personally, it's just human nature....

I don't care if people like me tho So if they take it personally, whatever.... I'm sure they will learn to know what I'm like over time.....

[Lunk1]

I look at it in simple terms. There are 3500 cals in a pound of fat. Believing that doing cardio one way or another burns up the pound better in some way is crazy. It's simple math. Create a deficite of 3500 cals and lose a pound...but again, even that is cumulative!

[MACKATTACK]

I know no one cares, but I have incorporated both into my routine and I think cycling the different cardio has actually made the morning fasted cardio more effective once again. I felt like my body was getting used to that same routine.

I am glad I can ask good questions that start good debates, thats how everyone learns.

[Brazensol]

This thread lasted longer than I thought . There is no evidence that what's in your stomach and/or what time you cardio has lesser or greater effect on fat loss. I'd love to see any studies.

I, too, have been looking for an answer to this and I may have found one a few days ago! It claimed ~20% more fat calories burned during fasted cardio. I need to find the article so I can quote the university that did the study. I'll try to find it and post it.

[AD]

https://www.inkling.com/read/textboo...84/figure-84-4

i cant copy the chart here, but if you follow the link, the chart shows that as exercise progresses, glycogen stores decrease, and the percentage of fat usage is increased.

it helps to explain why people believe that fasted and pwo cardio is better. the reasoning is not that glycogen stores are completely depleted at those times. as the glycogen stores decrease, fat usage increase. it does not need to be completely depleted for the statement to be true.

i am aware that there is a recent study done to show that fat usage during fasted cardio is more than fat usage during fed cardio only after 2 hrs of exercise. but i am not sure if that result has been repeated by other researchers or if the conclusion is correctly drawn from the study design. but it seems like that study and its conclusion has not made it into Physiology textbooks yet.

[Brazensol]

I, too, have been looking for an answer to this and I may have found one a few days ago! It claimed ~20% more fat calories burned during fasted cardio. I need to find the article so I can quote the university that did the study. I'll try to find it and post it.

Found it. The research was done by Northumbria University (New Castle, UK) and was published in the British Journal of Nurtrition. They also claim there was no increase in appetite or consumption.

[Sgt. Hartman]

I think the most important points are being missed, I guess I'm not explaining it clearly so let me try again.

Fat oxidation or total fat calories burned is higher in low intensity, post work out, or fasted cardio, no one will argue that. But placing any great degree of importance on this is overlooking the bigger picture of total energy metabolism over a 24hr or longer period.

Post exercise fat oxidation is higher for higher intensity and fed cardio sessions due to epoc (post exercise oxygen consumption).

According to this and many others Substrate oxidation difference... [Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI there is no difference in total 24hr fat oxidation between the different types of cardio.

Here's another one that shows no difference in total fat oxidation between carb fed and fasted cardio https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubme...381742/related

So the point is not to focus on what energy source your body is using for fuel during cardio sessions but rather on the total calories burned. Trying to manipulate where calories from during cardio sessions is futile at best and ignores the more important bigger picture of total energy expenditure over a longer period. Just do whatever type of cardio you prefer and have time for because assuming that the type of calories burned during a cardio session is relevant is misunderstanding the bigger physiology taking place the other 23.5 hours of the day.

[oatmeal69]

Fat oxidation or total fat calories burned is higher in low intensity, post work out, or fasted cardio, no one will argue that. But placing any great degree of importance on this is overlooking the bigger picture of total energy metabolism over a 24hr or longer period.
... ignores the more important bigger picture of total energy expenditure over a longer period. Just do whatever type of cardio you prefer and have time for because assuming that the type of calories burned during a cardio session is relevant is misunderstanding the bigger physiology taking place the other 23.5 hours of the day.

Yes. This is kinda what I'm coming to realize as well at least in my own experiences. And, that while we use 24-hours as a convenient measurement, it's entirely arbitrary where your body is concerned. Extended further, like over 48 hours, 72 hours, etc., it's even more about what you burn off vs. what you take in, and the contents of your macros.

[M302_Imola]

This thread lasted longer than I thought . There is no evidence that what's in your stomach and/or what time you cardio has lesser or greater effect on fat loss. I'd love to see any studies.

This is always a heated topic. Not to sound like an arrogant ass, but honestly I don't need to see the studies...proof is in the pudding! I know what has worked for me in terms of getting lean while holding onto muscle tissue (aas free, I like to cut naturally and then use aas to build lean muscle tissue at that point).

I love how just because some members here have thousands of posts means they MUST be correct.

Your argument is that if I wake up after 8 hours of sleep and no food, and go for a 45 minutes run, I won't lose an ounce of muscle.

bull$#it.

Hey everyone, lets go run around at 6am like a bunch of starving zombies. good idea right?

I don't really need to say anything here as you've done a pretty good job at making yourself look foolish. I've got an idea, quit hiding behind the racktastic chick in your avy pic and post up some pics of yourself!

[spywizard]

pwo cardio is fasted cardio...

the liver stores 300-400 calories of glycogen if during the workout you expend that much energy (easy to do really) then you are in a fasted state and risk low blood sugar.. that's why fasted cardio is always low intensity.. 110-125 max heart rate.. thus muscle sparing.

[oatmeal69]

Not to TOTALLY thread hijack but...
Austinite's ever-changing pix of the fitness model chick... While she has an absolutely INCREDIBLE, fit body, am I the only one who doesn't find her attractive in the least?

[oatmeal69]

P.S., I hope that's not his wife or something... *inserts foot and leg in mouth*

[cj111]

am I the only one who doesn't find her attractive in the least?

yep!

[baseline_9]

pwo cardio is fasted cardio...

the liver stores 300-400 calories of glycogen if during the workout you expend that much energy (easy to do really) then you are in a fasted state and risk low blood sugar.. that's why fasted cardio is always low intensity.. 110-125 max heart rate.. thus muscle sparing.

Well that doesn't take into account muscle glycogen....

[Live for the PUMP]

Not to TOTALLY thread hijack but...
Austinite's ever-changing pix of the fitness model chick... While she has an absolutely INCREDIBLE, fit body, am I the only one who doesn't find her attractive in the least?

Sir! You must have a hormonal imbalance. I suggest you get this checked out ASAP!

[3day]

Not to TOTALLY thread hijack but...
Austinite's ever-changing pix of the fitness model chick... While she has an absolutely INCREDIBLE, fit body, am I the only one who doesn't find her attractive in the least?

OMG but yea i'm gonna disagree

[basketballfan22]

There is so much I have to learn about cutting. In addition to the very fast metabolism I already have, I am always worried about putting on fat when I "bulk"; so I have never gone on a cutting diet and workout routine. Perhaps that is why it takes me so damn long to put on any weight, lol. It is very interesting reading about these conflicting ideas though. I love it.

[basketballfan22]

P.S., I hope that's not his wife or something... *inserts foot and leg in mouth*

That's his "mom." Ask him.

[austinite]

You bitches talking about my mom again? I'll crush you.

[basketballfan22]

You bitches talking about my mom again? I'll crush you.

Lol, oatmeal69 started it!

[M302_Imola]

You bitches talking about my mom again? I'll crush you.

and if he can't then his mom will!

[oatmeal69]

Oh, I completely agree, that woman would STOMP my ass.

[Brazensol]

I don't know who she is but I've seen her in a few of the magazines. Not sure I wouldn't mind her stomping my ass... She is certainly a looker!