over training

[MR-FQ320]

Over training is definitely real. Scientifically proven to exist. Anyone who says different is wrong. It happens when periods of over reaching are taken to far for to long and proper recovery protocol is not adhered to (proper sleep, nutrition, supplementation, and hydration) most people never actually get to the point of legitimate "overtraining", once your at that point it takes some time and work to recover. It takes a very long time to actually reach "overtraining" 1 workout won't do it. A couple weeks of treating yourself like crap probably could but more often it happens after months.

I agree with this. It's real, but it takes time and consistently over working muscles so that they just cannot recover. My workout schedule was crazy pre comp, after a couple of weeks of the fasted am workout I would have been better to drop this for at least a week to recover. Don't get me wrong I think I built muscle or at least hardened it but my performance tapered off slowly week by week. Sometimes less is more.

[btothefman]

Some good points in here but have a question around training twice a day for short periods.

Started doing some HIIT in the mornings on an empty stomach and I'm really responding to it, now I want to get back strength training for muscle gains.

What are your thoughts on doing first thing in the morning 30minutes of HIIT functional cardio training three mornings a weeks, and 30minutes of HIIT resistance training on the other three mornings, complimented by hitting a muscle group (chest/back, arms/shoulders, legs/lower back) each twice a week at night?

Would this be over training, or would you just start to back off if you weren't recovering?

On test/deca cycle so I want to make use of it and go hard while on.

Also would you consider swapping heavy low reps with low weight / high reps after a few weeks for a week or two to change things up a bit?

[lovbyts]

There has been several studies done on cardio training before eating and after with no significant differences.

No since you are only hitting each muscle group 2x a week you should be fine. You just need to make sure you are recovering enough and if you feel you arent just give another day or two in-between each muscle group to recover. Listen to your body.

[Mr.BB]

In my opinion most ppl overtrain, specially small muscles like biceps.

First let me say what I think its overtraining, overtraining is when your training volume do not promote anabolism or growth, in fact it can reach a point of promoting catabolism ending up with smaller muscles. Of course if you dont train enough volume you can also end up not promoting anabolism.

People that think overtraining doesnt exist ussually dont have enough experience imo.

If you know that resistance sports/exercises dont promote anabolism, think of running for example, marathon runners would have huge calves if resistance exercises would promote anabolism, they all have skinny legs, no doubt very resistant but very small. If you know this, you can easily understand why overtraining, ie too much volume is not benefitial to growing muscles.
If you make 20 sets for bicep how can you finish the workout if you put max effort into every set??? Either you rest a long time, or you hold back on most sets, ussually people do a combination of both. This will make a lifting effort which should be short, explosive, till failure into a resistance type of training.
IMO you only need 2-3 sets for bicep, ok if you count warmup/feel sets if can reach 6 sets, but if you do 2 sets, diff exercises, properly till failure why on earth would you need to do more?? Only if you want to improve your muscle resistance.

Using steroids will make your muscles stronger, shifting the failure point further away and improving the recovery, but still same logic aplies.

[btothefman]

There has been several studies done on cardio training before eating and after with no significant differences. No since you are only hitting each muscle group 2x a week you should be fine. You just need to make sure you are recovering enough and if you feel you arent just give another day or two in-between each muscle group to recover. Listen to your body.

thanks dude

[btoma32]

good thread!

[SonofBragi25]

There has been several studies done on cardio training before eating and after with no significant differences.

Well that's bitter sweet news lol. I always seem to feel "better" when I do fasted cardio.

[lovbyts]

Well that's bitter sweet news lol. I always seem to feel "better" when I do fasted cardio.

Simple then, if you feel better stick with it.

[SonofBragi25]

Simple then, if you feel better stick with it.

Yeah I won't stop doing it, just figured it was helping more than just psychologically. Oh well, I guess psychological is half the battle right? :P