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Thread: wide grip for a wide back?

  1. #1
    chefjmo's Avatar
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    wide grip for a wide back?

    For years I heard this. But today at the gym an old timer said this was a myth . Well what do you guys (and gals) say?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefjmo
    For years I heard this. But today at the gym an old timer said this was a myth . Well what do you guys (and gals) say?
    Dorian Yates says that he never used very wide grip,and his back was one of the best in history!
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  3. #3
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    Close grip because of longer motion. U activate your back more basically. I do throw in some wide grip pulldowns as will
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    Quote Originally Posted by 73rr View Post
    Close grip because of longer motion. U activate your back more basically. I do throw in some wide grip pulldowns as will
    Pretty much this ^^^^.

    If you grip to wide you only serve to shorten your range of motion and limit how much of the target area you work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreshmaker View Post
    Dorian Yates says that he never used very wide grip,and his back was one of the best in history!



    Agreed but it - Was the best in history that's why you hear it's 'his back' is "Dorianesque"...


    Obviously, Colemans wasn't no slouch either

  6. #6
    Proximal is offline Banned
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    Not challenging, just saying - Google: variations in latissimus dorsi origins & insertions. Point being, it's conceivable that variations out there possibly can effect the way this muscle looks, particularly if developed to a high degree. So some exercises & grips can work better or not work as well. Food for thought.

  7. #7
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    Guess you've had some excellent answers to this. This has been a hot topic recently, appearing in several threads.

    General consensus is as 73rr said. Its the longest range of motion, and personally I feel I have stronger mind-muscle connection with a close grip variation.
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  8. #8
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    I really enjoy medium grip with tapered D-ring grips... not sure what the bar is called but I get great ROM and nice contraction at the bottom. I also notice better mind-muscle connection because I'm not worried about losing my grip at the bottom

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by krugerr View Post
    Guess you've had some excellent answers to this. This has been a hot topic recently, appearing in several threads.

    General consensus is as 73rr said. Its the longest range of motion, and personally I feel I have stronger mind-muscle connection with a close grip variation.
    Agree. I spend most of my time on this forum do to the massive amount of knowledge provided.

  10. #10
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    Last time someone had a thread like this I think they were demoted or banned.

    Either way, there is some variation in each of our lat insertions and origins in regard to the direction of muscle fibers from origin-insertion...but that being said, closer grip is superior for the simple reason of greater ROM. If, you KNOW that you have a more wide muscle striation in the lats, then a medium grip would help too, but its hard to KNOW that.

    Either way, a big part of lat development that I have learned is to perform exercises that exhaust the lats before the biceps or along with the biceps..not before the biceps. In other words, if your grip fails before your lats fail, you havent done enough damage.

    This is why Yates and other suggest overhead/straight arm lat pushdows first, to help exhaust the lats before biceps and grip strength are involved. Another way to mitigate the problem is by using a chin up hand position or a palms facing position to allow strength in the biceps to help exhaust the lats further before grip fails.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by novastepp View Post
    Last time someone had a thread like this I think they were demoted or banned.

    Either way, there is some variation in each of our lat insertions and origins in regard to the direction of muscle fibers from origin-insertion...but that being said, closer grip is superior for the simple reason of greater ROM. If, you KNOW that you have a more wide muscle striation in the lats, then a medium grip would help too, but its hard to KNOW that.

    .
    You might want to read some of the documentation out there, it does not have to do with the direction of the fibers (or striations) from origin-insertion, it has to do with different origins and different insertions all-together. This conceivably would make function different for different individuals, which means one cannot make blanket statements regarding exercises that apply for everyone.

  12. #12
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    I get great pump on my lats by making sure the elbow stays close to body on any row or pulldown movement.

    Example of workout:
    Pull over (DB or cable, like this for warmup)
    BB bent over row (under hand grip)
    T bar close grip (by now my lats have crazy pump)
    Hammer strength pulldown (close grip)
    Only then I do some wide grip pull down behind neck for example, if still have some energy. The row and pulldown movements try to keep elbow close to body. If my elbow is lose the lat activation and pump is not so great.

    ....Just my 2 cents
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  13. #13
    Proximal is offline Banned
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    And now that I am on TRT - my muscles are responding to the point that my back workout is my favorite due to me having so much fun with different exercises and how long it takes me in the gym. I personally love the Hammer machines because of their variety.

  14. #14
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    I think for a well developed back you should experiment with various hand width and see what works for you best.
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  15. #15
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    hey bb... i'm looking for ideas for my next back workout. could you elaborate on the exercises above...

    warmup set
    feeler
    double drop?

    rep ranges...
    rest
    etc?

    your elbows in is a good tip.

  16. #16
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    Actually just arrived from gym from chest and back workout, and did more or less those exercises:

    Cable pullover
    1 warmup about 15 reps
    1 feeler, double the weight, 10 reps
    1 working set, 12 reps, slow and proper form

    BB bent over row, under grip, my fav grip, im able to isolate lats and not activate biceps much
    1 warmup, 1 plate, 12 reps
    1 feller, 2 plates, 10 reps
    1 working 2,5 plates, think got 7 with proper form plus 2-3 partials

    Tbar row close grip facing hands
    Feeler, 3 plates, 10 reps
    Working set, 4 plates, 6-7, plus 2 dropset removing a plate for more 3-4 reps, ended with only 2 plates slow and proper form, run out of air had to sit on floor for few min lol

    Hammer pulldown, close grip facing hands
    2 feelers, 2 plates then added half, 12-10 reps concentrate on form, slow, elbows tucked in
    1 working, 3 plates, 6-7 reps, dropset 4-5 more reps

    Was already dead but did 2 sets of behind neck pulldown wide grip while waited for gf. If it was a back only workout would add lower back exercise.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    I get great pump on my lats by making sure the elbow stays close to body on any row or pulldown movement.

    Example of workout:
    Pull over (DB or cable, like this for warmup)
    BB bent over row (under hand grip)
    T bar close grip (by now my lats have crazy pump)
    Hammer strength pulldown (close grip)
    Only then I do some wide grip pull down behind neck for example, if still have some energy. The row and pulldown movements try to keep elbow close to body. If my elbow is lose the lat activation and pump is not so great.

    ....Just my 2 cents
    Agreed!

    I definitely get a better back w/o w/thickness movements(rows upon rows) w/some accessory lifts... But I too, like my elbows in - it's the best way to isolate your lats(arch and chest up at peak contraction)

    If you do mainly thickness movements - your lats will have no other option but to go outwards(said/& backed by Marcus) and I listened and it works very well
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by novastepp View Post
    Last time someone had a thread like this I think they were demoted or banned.

    Either way, there is some variation in each of our lat insertions and origins in regard to the direction of muscle fibers from origin-insertion...but that being said, closer grip is superior for the simple reason of greater ROM. If, you KNOW that you have a more wide muscle striation in the lats, then a medium grip would help too, but its hard to KNOW that.

    Either way, a big part of lat development that I have learned is to perform exercises that exhaust the lats before the biceps or along with the biceps..not before the biceps. In other words, if your grip fails before your lats fail, you havent done enough damage.

    This is why Yates and other suggest overhead/straight arm lat pushdows first, to help exhaust the lats before biceps and grip strength are involved. Another way to mitigate the problem is by using a chin up hand position or a palms facing position to allow strength in the biceps to help exhaust the lats further before grip fails.
    Boy I'm glad I didn't get banned for this! Or demoted? I'm also glad there is no karma. This makes it better than that, due to the fact that I can ask a question and not get worried about getting flamed! I ask so I can learn , isn't that what it's about, always learning/growing? Once.i again.even in this "stupid" thread I learned a lot . And I appreciate that!
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefjmo View Post
    Boy I'm glad I didn't get banned for this! Or demoted? I'm also glad there is no karma. This makes it better than that, due to the fact that I can ask a question and not get worried about getting flamed! I ask so I can learn , isn't that what it's about, always learning/growing? Once.i again.even in this "stupid" thread I learned a lot . And I appreciate that!
    No bro, he was probably (though can't say for sure) referring to me. On that thread I had the audacity to suggest that a far more senior forum member was not completely correct on their information. Also (similar to this thread) regarding back training (latissimus dorsi in particular) that due to my knowledge and background (please note here I am NOT saying I am smarter than anyone, just that I have a strong background on this subject) I wanted to introduce another perspective. Nice thread!
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proximal View Post
    On that thread I had the audacity to suggest that a far more senior forum member was not completely correct on their information. !
    Nothing wrong with having a different opinion when the topic is subjective. How things are worded can be crucial though. That being said, I enjoy what you put forth here Proximal.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Nothing wrong with having a different opinion when the topic is subjective. How things are worded can be crucial though. That being said, I enjoy what you put forth here Proximal.
    VERY greatly appreciated kelkel. Will certainly be careful with my wording and sincerely hope I have not offended anyone, NEVER my intent. This forum and the information/assistance that you all provide, means the world to me!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proximal View Post
    VERY greatly appreciated kelkel. Will certainly be careful with my wording and sincerely hope I have not offended anyone, NEVER my intent. This forum and the information/assistance that you all provide, means the world to me!
    What thread are we talking about? Wanna go bash you as well LOL
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    What thread are we talking about? Wanna go bash you as well LOL
    Thanks Mr. BB.
    Last edited by Proximal; 03-04-2016 at 04:00 PM.

  24. #24
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    I tried the closer grip today with 3 variations and wow! Couldn't I'll as much weight but definitely felt it in my whole lats top to bottom. Perfect example of why I'm on this forum.! Thanks guys!
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefjmo View Post
    I tried the closer grip today with 3 variations and wow! Couldn't I'll as much weight but definitely felt it in my whole lats top to bottom. Perfect example of why I'm on this forum.! Thanks guys!
    Nice to here u liked it!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proximal View Post
    You might want to read some of the documentation out there, it does not have to do with the direction of the fibers (or striations) from origin-insertion, it has to do with different origins and different insertions all-together. This conceivably would make function different for different individuals, which means one cannot make blanket statements regarding exercises that apply for everyone.
    The muscles originate and insert in the same place, with some variation. Also, the direction of the fibers is the same but also includes some variation.

    That's all I was saying. I thought my post agreed with your point, that blanket statements did not work entirely, but that greater range of motion was something an individual could control. If I didn't make that point, I apologize for the confusion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proximal View Post
    No bro, he was probably (though can't say for sure) referring to me. On that thread I had the audacity to suggest that a far more senior forum member was not completely correct on their information. Also (similar to this thread) regarding back training (latissimus dorsi in particular) that due to my knowledge and background (please note here I am NOT saying I am smarter than anyone, just that I have a strong background on this subject) I wanted to introduce another perspective. Nice thread!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    What thread are we talking about? Wanna go bash you as well LOL
    I wasn't bashing Proximal and the thread I was referring to has been locked, and may have been removed, not sure.

  28. #28
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    I have a fuking huge wide thick back

    When I started it was a weak point but now its pretty impressive

    want to know how I did it?
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by novastepp View Post
    I wasn't bashing Proximal and the thread I was referring to has been locked, and may have been removed, not sure.
    Its not removed, just locked. Proximal needs to checks his E2 levels
    The issue was not with his posts.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post
    I have a fuking huge wide thick back

    When I started it was a weak point but now its pretty impressive

    want to know how I did it?
    Yessss

    As long as I dont have to wear any leather mask with pipe...
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB
    Yessss As long as I dont have to wear any leather mask with pipe...
    He cheated, it's all synthol and padding.

    Sent from my iPhone using App
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    Its not removed, just locked. Proximal needs to checks his E2 levels
    The issue was not with his posts.
    You're probably right - just finishing my first "mini-blast", might not have my arimidex dosage dialed in correctly - let's see, blood test results are due any time now
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  33. #33
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    I've always heard this but I use a close grip. Wide grip is uncomfortable on my shoulders

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