Lets stir things up

[inheritmylife]

I love the 2.5 lb plates, I even tape them to the sides of dumbells. My gym only has ten lb increments after 100lbs.

[Royal_Mako_Rumble]

Iv done 4 weeks of D/C training with nothing too noticable gains wise, but i wanted to know how do i go about with the 2 week easy training part. Or can some1 tell what page number its on on his 99 page document. thanx

[saboudian]

My biceps are surprisingly fine inherit...My triceps really died though...Died on decline bench, started quitting on db shoulder press, and collasped on tricep pushdown. Forearms were killing me throughout the workout...Especially doing pulldowns, I went straight set here, and finally doing partial/rack deads my forearm and grip just quit on me...Kinda glad b/c my mid back and lower traps are deeply sore today, cant imagine how much sorer they'd be if the grip didnt fail and I pumped more reps out...Pecs slightly sore/tight while shoulder and tricep nothing...

As for Tri's, If you use freeweight movements(especially DB's), then by time u get done with your chest and shoulders you will have nothing left for your tri's. I typically do all my chest and shoulders exercises on machines so my tri's don't get worn out before i get to them, I also feel for the most part, chest and shoulders are done much better on machines for this style of workout.

Not sure why your forearms would be killing you on first 3 exercises (assuming u don't have tendonitis,etc), but there is absolutely nothing wrong with using wraps on this type of workout.

[saboudian]

I found that my biceps became very overtrained doing this split. The back work, then two days later the biceps work...too much. It is on the right track though, reminds me of Stuart Macroberts Beyond Brawn: Low volume, slow reps, compound movements only. I think that an A and B day is sufficient to mix it up. An A,B, and C day is too long to go without repeating a movement even if you worked the muscle four days ago. Dropping biceps from the leg day and adding to the upper body day would work better IMO.

If you're using the 3 workouts/week split and you find your bi's do not recover enough from workout to workout, your either not getting enough protein in and/or you're not doing the extreme stretches either at all or not correct/properly.

[saboudian]

Iv done 4 weeks of D/C training with nothing too noticable gains wise, but i wanted to know how do i go about with the 2 week easy training part. Or can some1 tell what page number its on on his 99 page document. thanx

This is extremely rare that a person doesn't notice immediate gains, so this leads me to believe that you're doing something incredibly wrong/don't understand the system.

For the 2 week cruise period, after forcing yourself through intense works for 4 weeks and cramming ****loads of protein down, there is a 2 week cruise period where DC drops the protein down a lil bit, drops a meal possibly, and relaxes a lil bit, also drops the test dosage if you're 'on'. As far as the workouts go, instead of doing the normal rest-pause sets, it would just be 1 straight set with a static and thats it.

[Royal_Mako_Rumble]

This is extremely rare that a person doesn't notice immediate gains, so this leads me to believe that you're doing something incredibly wrong/don't understand the system.

For the 2 week cruise period, after forcing yourself through intense works for 4 weeks and cramming ****loads of protein down, there is a 2 week cruise period where DC drops the protein down a lil bit, drops a meal possibly, and relaxes a lil bit, also drops the test dosage if you're 'on'. As far as the workouts go, instead of doing the normal rest-pause sets, it would just be 1 straight set with a static and thats it.

Saboudian ur right i think... because i have a problem that nobody can seem to shed a light on.. its this;

-Iv been following DC trainin VERY STRICTLY 4 weeks, heavy weights, xtreme the lot with zero deviation. Im not juiceing. After my work outs i can never get that Ripped feeling the next day that takes days to recover, you's all know that feeling, especially cant get it in my bies thats why they're like tooth picks !!!!

I think this is the reason why im not progressing, what do u think Saboudian, and is this common if so what can i do to GET THE PAIN??


Thanx for ur help bro

[AbsolutelyLethal]

Its not really killing me...Its that I get like intense pumps going through my upper forearm...Like a huge vein pops up and I can feel the blood rushing through!!! Ill try machines today on Chest and shoulder...

Just curious if you get soreness in all muscle groups? When I was on the old prototypical workout style (3 or 4 sets of like 6-12 reps) I never got sore unless I tried a new exercise....

So far Ive been through two workouts, one of each split or whatever...My soreness impression are the following...I worked out on Tuesday and Thursday...
Weds (Day after w-out1): Mid back/lower traps felt sore and shoulders felt tired to lift up.
Thurs(w-out 2 & Day after w-out 1) Chest felt sore/tight, triceps a litte tender
Friday(Day after) - Hammies and glutes tired as hell...Calves slightly but only because I couldnt blast them because I was limited in weight to a sprained ankle ligament in my arch...No bicep sorness
Saturday(Day 2) - Slight soreness in hammies and glute...Increased soreness in calves. Slight tenderness in my upper forearm near elbow insertion, not tendinitis...No bicep soreness...Ready to hit Workout 1 again!!

Answer me this though...I always have problems in forearm workouts. Usually limited by my wrist though...When it back like its a horrible feeling that I cant stand...Same problem for me on close grip bench...My wrist bends back and it limits me...Anything I can do beyond wrist wraps...The wrist raps on my gloves dont do jack for support on close grips. I have just eliminated them from my tricep work?

Also DC does reverse grip bench...Isnt that a shoulder intensive vs tricep intensive exercise? Not that I could do it because my wrists are so **** unflexible!!! Apparently searching through google for "Reverse grip bench" brings up an old flex article by Ronnie coleman who says he doesnt advocate them...Too much wrist/thumb strain and too much emphasis/stress on the front delt as opposed all 3 heads, triceps, and chest on normal bench...I guess I was right!

Not sure why your forearms would be killing you on first 3 exercises (assuming u don't have tendonitis,etc), but there is absolutely nothing wrong with using wraps on this type of workout.

[saboudian]

Saboudian ur right i think... because i have a problem that nobody can seem to shed a light on.. its this;

-Iv been following DC trainin VERY STRICTLY 4 weeks, heavy weights, xtreme the lot with zero deviation. Im not juiceing. After my work outs i can never get that Ripped feeling the next day that takes days to recover, you's all know that feeling, especially cant get it in my bies thats why they're like tooth picks !!!!

I think this is the reason why im not progressing, what do u think Saboudian, and is this common if so what can i do to GET THE PAIN??


Thanx for ur help bro

Well, my guess from your response is that you need to read the article at the beginning of this thread another 2-3 times, and eventually read the big one at animalkits. Although I tend to become very sore immediately after the workout, or at least by the end of the day, this is not the point. The whole concept is not in soreness but in strength gains, get that frickin journal out and see what kinda gains you've been making now that its been a few weeks.

As for what you could be doing wrong, well here's a few common mistakes.

-not using 6-10 second negative on every rep
-end every set on the negative (except for the last set of the rest pause, where you do a static after your last negative, this usually doesn't apply to calves and quads)
-as far as 'not getting the pain', if you're not getting it, then you're not working your quads and calves correctly and you're doing the streches improperly, those are the 3 things which should have you in pain
-you're not getting enough protein in, you should be at a minimum of 2g/lb of bodyweight
-you're choosing 'bad' exercises

[saboudian]

Its not really killing me...Its that I get like intense pumps going through my upper forearm...Like a huge vein pops up and I can feel the blood rushing through!!! Ill try machines today on Chest and shoulder...

Just curious if you get soreness in all muscle groups? When I was on the old prototypical workout style (3 or 4 sets of like 6-12 reps) I never got sore unless I tried a new exercise....

So far Ive been through two workouts, one of each split or whatever...My soreness impression are the following...I worked out on Tuesday and Thursday...
Weds (Day after w-out1): Mid back/lower traps felt sore and shoulders felt tired to lift up.
Thurs(w-out 2 & Day after w-out 1) Chest felt sore/tight, triceps a litte tender
Friday(Day after) - Hammies and glutes tired as hell...Calves slightly but only because I couldnt blast them because I was limited in weight to a sprained ankle ligament in my arch...No bicep sorness
Saturday(Day 2) - Slight soreness in hammies and glute...Increased soreness in calves. Slight tenderness in my upper forearm near elbow insertion, not tendinitis...No bicep soreness...Ready to hit Workout 1 again!!

Answer me this though...I always have problems in forearm workouts. Usually limited by my wrist though...When it back like its a horrible feeling that I cant stand...Same problem for me on close grip bench...My wrist bends back and it limits me...Anything I can do beyond wrist wraps...The wrist raps on my gloves dont do jack for support on close grips. I have just eliminated them from my tricep work?

Also DC does reverse grip bench...Isnt that a shoulder intensive vs tricep intensive exercise? Not that I could do it because my wrists are so **** unflexible!!! Apparently searching through google for "Reverse grip bench" brings up an old flex article by Ronnie coleman who says he doesnt advocate them...Too much wrist/thumb strain and too much emphasis/stress on the front delt as opposed all 3 heads, triceps, and chest on normal bench...I guess I was right!

Off a first glance, working out 2 days a row in this split is generally a bad idea. I would stick to the 3 workouts/week for now.

cg bp- Your wrists shouldn't bend back at all and in fact, the way DC does them, this can't be a problem at all. Look in the big thread for a detailed explanation of how he does it.

[Royal_Mako_Rumble]

mm ok Saboudian, i'll concentrate on those points u set, see how clean i am on those, but i think my faults are the protien and/or not get a good enuf stretch..

Thanx bro wish me LUCK!!!

[AbsolutelyLethal]

I must have typed something wrong...I workout Tues,Thurs, Saturday....

Tell me sab,

What are your 3 exercises you do for each muscle group?
Im doing:
Chest : Barbell Decline, Machine Incline, Flat Smith
Shoulders : DB press, Machine Press, Standing Military - Curious if I need Anterior or Posterior specific exercises....
Triceps: Bent bar Pushdown, Skull Crushers, Frenchpress
Back Width: Pulldowns, Pullups, Pulldowns using wide grip bar with palms facing each other
Back Thickness - Partial Deads, Smith Rows, T-Bar

Bicep - Preacher, Seated alternating Db Curls, Standing barbell curls
Forearm - Reverse Curls, hammer curls, standing wrist curls
Calves - Seated Raises, Standing Raises, Hack squat raises
Hamstrings - Romanian Deads, seated leg curls, lying leg curl
Quad - Leg press, Squat, hack squat machine

[saboudian]

Im doing:
Chest : Barbell Decline, Machine Incline, Flat Smith
Shoulders : DB press, Machine Press, Standing Military - Curious if I need Anterior or Posterior specific exercises....
Triceps: Bent bar Pushdown, Skull Crushers, Frenchpress
Back Width: Pulldowns, Pullups, Pulldowns using wide grip bar with palms facing each other
Back Thickness - Partial Deads, Smith Rows, T-Bar

Bicep - Preacher, Seated alternating Db Curls, Standing barbell curls
Forearm - Reverse Curls, hammer curls, standing wrist curls
Calves - Seated Raises, Standing Raises, Hack squat raises
Hamstrings - Romanian Deads, seated leg curls, lying leg curl
Quad - Leg press, Squat, hack squat machine

Chest: I would avoid using free wts on chest, I would do your presses on a smith or on a machine. My exercises are smith incline, smith with a very slight incline, and a machine type of incline press thats hard to explain

Shoulders: Same thing as chest, e.g I would do your military press in the smith. As long as you're doing big compound exercises here, I wouldn't worry too much about whether or not the front or medial head is getting enough work. As for the posterior head, there is no direct work for them. The reason would be that doing DL with 500 lbs will work better than doing direct work with bent over raises with 25lbs DB's. For shoulders I have been doing rope upright rows, smith military press, and a machine type of shoulder press.

Tri's- Ok, now if you're wondering why you used so much machines for shoulders/chest, this is why you did it. If you utilize free weight movements on chest/shoulders, by time you get to tri work, they'll already be dead. DC's CG bench is a great one here, dips, and jm presses and cg presses on pretty much any angle. I wouldn't be afraid to use free wt movements for tri's being its the last work tri's get in the workout.

Back width- You nailed this one, anything done in the vertical plane. I seem to prefer machine assisted pullups vs the pulldowns, but its not really a big deal. Just experiment with different grips/handles.

Back thickness- You got it on this one. Usually what I do is for 2 of the 3 exercises in my rotation i will use partial deads, GM's, and/or back extensions and then the 3rd exercise will be a row. Thats personally just what I do, but the way you have yours set up is fine.

Biceps and forearms- You're good except for the alternating curls, I would do them both simultaneously. Cable curls work well in here also.

hams- 2 great exercises for hams are GHR and the other is putting your feet high and a bit wide on the cybex leg press, I'm not a big fan of leg curls myself.

calves- Yours is fine. One of my fav exercises here is donkey calf raises. Frickin hack squat raises hurt my shoulders so much. The one thing I would recommend is having a clock or watch nearby so you don't cheat yourself.

quads- You got the idea. The only problem with free wt squats, is that my hams fail before my quads do because i just worked them, so i usually don't do them. Usually for quads, I do a hvy set of 6-8 reps, rest for a few min, then go for the 20 repper.

abs-go with what you wish here. Some ppl don't do them at all and are fine. I'll just put a DB on my chest and do decline sit ups, try to move up in wt every workout. You can either rest pause em or just do a straight set, just make sure you stretch em at the end. ABs really aren't set in stone, plenty of experimenting to do here, but if you do decide to work them, I would use wt.


For the most part, it seems like you got some good exercises picked out, its just tough to get away from some of those free wt exercises, it just takes some experimenting to find out what works well with this split. Hope this helps.

[AbsolutelyLethal]

Sorry Im drawing a blank on the following...
-JM presses for tris?
-GHR - Glute ham?

Some questions/comments
-Why 3 incline presses for chest?
-hyperExtensions for thickness in back? I do them on ab day....
-Good mornings, isnt that really hammie intensive?
-Not sure what a cybex leg press machine(horizontal leg press?) is, but when I do leg press(incline hip sled) my feet ARE like on the upper edges of the platform
-I like the machine pullups too(tried normal pullups last time and just about died!! ) but what about the other two exercises? Thats why I did pull downs in two different ways...I guess I could experiment with different grips in pullups? Like close grip facing each other or chinup, but that seems like it would take away emphasis from the lats and move it to the bis...
-The only calf raise I like is seated...The standing machine hurts my shoulders, its a calf/quad machine, and hack squats feel like my knees will pop any sec....Leg press raises I feel nothing except that Im going to lose control and have weight fall on me...
-Quads...So you do one heavy set RP negative slow and then do a 20 rep set RP slow negative with that same weight??? I use to warmup with 3 plates on leg press....Last time I did DC workout on legs I did 3 plates and my legs were quivering on every rep down...I got 12-4-3 or something like that...So painful!! I dont think I could have pumped 6 then 20...HAHA

Thanks man!!!

[saboudian]

Sorry Im drawing a blank on the following...
-JM presses for tris?
-GHR - Glute ham?

Some questions/comments
-Why 3 incline presses for chest?
-hyperExtensions for thickness in back? I do them on ab day....
-Good mornings, isnt that really hammie intensive?
-Not sure what a cybex leg press machine(horizontal leg press?) is, but when I do leg press(incline hip sled) my feet ARE like on the upper edges of the platform
-I like the machine pullups too(tried normal pullups last time and just about died!! ) but what about the other two exercises? Thats why I did pull downs in two different ways...I guess I could experiment with different grips in pullups? Like close grip facing each other or chinup, but that seems like it would take away emphasis from the lats and move it to the bis...
-The only calf raise I like is seated...The standing machine hurts my shoulders, its a calf/quad machine, and hack squats feel like my knees will pop any sec....Leg press raises I feel nothing except that Im going to lose control and have weight fall on me...
-Quads...So you do one heavy set RP negative slow and then do a 20 rep set RP slow negative with that same weight??? I use to warmup with 3 plates on leg press....Last time I did DC workout on legs I did 3 plates and my legs were quivering on every rep down...I got 12-4-3 or something like that...So painful!! I dont think I could have pumped 6 then 20...HAHA

Thanks man!!!

Yup, u're right on the JM's and GHR.

3 inclines for chest- Well my chest is one of my weak body parts, and the way I've brought it up is by focusing on Incline which has helped it quite a bit. Its not as if my upper chest is the only thing sore, my entire chest, outside, inside, lower, upper will all get sore so I don't feel i'm neglecting anything, as long as you use a press here, you're alright.

back extensions- Well, say 2 of my back thickness exercises are DL's and GM's and I stop gaining on one of those. I really don't want to replace one of em with a row, so i replace it with back extensions. Now a back extension might not be an equally great exercise as a DL or GM but it gives me a lil bit of a break and gets me over the hump, something a row wouldn't do.

GM's hammie intensive?- sure but so are DL's.

Leg press for hams- sounds like you got the idea.

back width- As long as its in the vertical plane, don't worry about it.

calves- I don't know what to say, hack squat raises really hurt my frickin shoulders too. I really love donkey's here. My answer i guess would be to mess around with em a lil bit again. My knees used to hurt also when i used tons of wt, but with this type of training my knees don't hurt anymore cuz i use much less wt. If your knees still bother you, my only suggestion would be to bend your knees slightly in some of the exercises.


quads- actually DC doesn't recommend rest pausing here. I do a heavy set of 6-8 reps, give myself a 4-5 minute break and go for a 20 rep set. If you're not familiar with the 20 rep set, you take a wt where you can only get 8-12 reps with and go for 20 reps, take as much time as needed but keep your knees bent and don't put your hands on your quads. Some ppl will do just the 20 rep set and thats fine. If you want more info on which one to do, read the CFP thread as various ppl have stated their opinion on which one to do.

[AbsolutelyLethal]

Ok I figured out the JM Press...Combination of skullkrusher and close grip bench...I like...

GHR = Glute Ham Raises...Dont have one of those machine or donkey calf machine...JESUS!!!
All we got is 45 degree hyper extension, which really blows my lower back and not hammies unless I really push forward when I go down...Ill try the GM's when one my leg curl boosheets stall out....

Been stalled out on chest for ages...How do I figure out if its the decline, flat, or incline that needs more work? I thought that decline was most chest intensive....How'd you go about choosing all incline?

Dont have a Cybex leg press...Only have incline sled and horizontal machine sled...Ill try horizontal sled, high and wide and see if I feel it in the hammies...I stay away from SLDL's, as when I go down with my knees locked out, they bow back and feel like they are hyperextending...Im gonna try them with a slight bend, Im afraid with Im gonna do them too much like Romandian DL's though...Ive read to start the SLDL from the ground and go to mid thigh...Ill try that for a change...

Let me make sure I got the quad thing down...You do one set heavy 6-8 reps with slow(6-8 second) negatives...5 minute break and then you bust out 20 reps with slow negatives with the same weight...Jesus, now I see why you do machines/sleds....I think Ill try and bust out 20 reps first...

[saboudian]

All we got is 45 degree hyper extension, which really blows my lower back and not hammies unless I really push forward when I go down...Ill try the GM's when one my leg curl boosheets stall out....

Been stalled out on chest for ages...How do I figure out if its the decline, flat, or incline that needs more work? I thought that decline was most chest intensive....How'd you go about choosing all incline?

Dont have a Cybex leg press...Only have incline sled and horizontal machine sled...Ill try horizontal sled, high and wide and see if I feel it in the hammies...I stay away from SLDL's, as when I go down with my knees locked out, they bow back and feel like they are hyperextending...Im gonna try them with a slight bend, Im afraid with Im gonna do them too much like Romandian DL's though...Ive read to start the SLDL from the ground and go to mid thigh...Ill try that for a change...

Let me make sure I got the quad thing down...You do one set heavy 6-8 reps with slow(6-8 second) negatives...5 minute break and then you bust out 20 reps with slow negatives with the same weight...Jesus, now I see why you do machines/sleds....I think Ill try and bust out 20 reps first...

I use GM's as a back thickness exercise.

chest- I guess its just experience, I think DC uses wide grip bench as one of his exercises because he feels his chest isn't quite as wide. What you have for your chest exercises is a fine starting point and you can go from there.

hammy leg press- seems like u got it.

SLDL- Actually when i do these, i have my knees slightly bent, and i only lower the bar to the bottom of my knees.

quads- Its a hvy set of 6-8 reps, give yourself a 5 min break and then do the 20 rep set which isn't gonna be the same wt as your hvy set more than likely. Remember for the 20 rep set, you're picking a wt that you can only get 8-12 reps with, so its gonna be lighter than that first hvy set. If you wanna just skip the hvy set and just do the 20 rep set, than thats fine, alot of ppl will throw the hvy set in at the beginning once they run into a plateau or start having trouble putting mass on their legs.

[yooo]

bizzump

[bitta]

I really am trying to do this routine but, I will do a set where I fail on rep 8 and my partner has to help it off my chest than I wait 15 breathes and get 8 more then wait 15 breathes I get like 7 reps I can never get to where the same weight will limit me to 1 unless I do like 15 sets,wtf? I squated 405 8 times then 405 7 times then 405 6 times and so on should I then squat 415 6 times etc? with legs it works o.k. for me but arms I can do dmn bicep curls all day long,I will fail then wait a miniute and go again,and Im not growing all that much,what am I doing wrong?

[saboudian]

I really am trying to do this routine but, I will do a set where I fail on rep 8 and my partner has to help it off my chest than I wait 15 breathes and get 8 more then wait 15 breathes I get like 7 reps I can never get to where the same weight will limit me to 1 unless I do like 15 sets,wtf? I squated 405 8 times then 405 7 times then 405 6 times and so on should I then squat 415 6 times etc? with legs it works o.k. for me but arms I can do dmn bicep curls all day long,I will fail then wait a miniute and go again,and Im not growing all that much,what am I doing wrong?

My guess at whats wrong:

-You're not doing 6-10 second negatives on every rep
-You don't end every time on the negative
-After the negative on the last part of the rest-pause set, have a partner quickly lift it up for you and do a static
-For quads I would suggest changing to a hvy 4-8 rep set followed by a 20 rep set
-Maybe your 15 breaths make it a very long rest period, it should be around 23 seconds or so
-the last option would be that you have an extremely good recovery ability, and can consider going to the 4 workout/week split.

[Naturallyfunny]

As a natural kid (21) Will it work for me as I know juicing will help you recover..
Im gettin in about 400gm pro and 400gm Carbs (@ 217lbs)
Was in a car wreck and lost a **** load of weight so really wanna pack on the pounds...
What dya think?

[hugesunglasses]

excellent post. thank you

[saboudian]

As a natural kid (21) Will it work for me as I know juicing will help you recover..
Im gettin in about 400gm pro and 400gm Carbs (@ 217lbs)
Was in a car wreck and lost a **** load of weight so really wanna pack on the pounds...
What dya think?

Absolutely. You should recover faster on this split than a typical split where u're doing 10 sets per body part and it takes a week for that part to recover. I would suggest upping the protein to 450g, and if you get stuck, up it to 500g.

I am natural and you will be fine as long as you keep your protein high and do the stretches. Even then if recovery is still a problem, than instead of doing Rest Pause sets you could just do a straight set.

[AbsolutelyLethal]

I find straight sets more mentally exhausting then Rest pause sets...With straight sets you have to keep pushing it, mind over matter...With Rest pausing you can "quit", wait 20 seconds, and continue on with the next mini-set...

Have only really compared straight vs RP on legs, both sucked...HAHA...Both make you feel like you want to kill yourself afterwards, glad that quads are last on those workouts...

My workout partners love the 3 workouts of 5 exercise a week plan but the 4 workouts of 3-4 exercises split Doggcrap mentions as an alternative in the animal kit thread, sounds so much more enticing...By the end of my workouts Im always so dead, especially doing Chest, Shoulders, Triceps, and then the two different back exercises balls to the wall!!!

[bitta]

sab, I see what you mean about those negatives bro it is working really well for me so far, but my only problem seems to be my biceps again I can recover very quickly after say preacher curls, I did them yesterday....1st squats warm-up then three sets first set 470 for 9 reps 470 for 6 reps then 470 for 2 untill my partner had to help me back up to rack,then I did stiff legged deads 500 for 6 500 for 5 500 for 1 again almost dropping to the ground, so I move to the preacher bench warm up a bit then smack on 100lbs I do 8 with 8sec negatives then 5with 8 sec negatives then barely 2 more the same way holding static at the last negative,just for fun I waited like 5 miniuts and busted out 8 more WTF is wrong with me? I havent seen any bicep growth in a while and I cant really understand what Im doing wrong, i am liking this routine a lot though any suggestions on my bicep work?

[jrock34]

i'm having trouble with the biceps stretch because of an old elbow injury. it makes my elbow feel hyperextended which is very painful. is there another stretch i can try?

I'm really liking the program though. i like being able to lift each muscle group more often.

[saboudian]

sab, I see what you mean about those negatives bro it is working really well for me so far, but my only problem seems to be my biceps again I can recover very quickly after say preacher curls, I did them yesterday....1st squats warm-up then three sets first set 470 for 9 reps 470 for 6 reps then 470 for 2 untill my partner had to help me back up to rack,then I did stiff legged deads 500 for 6 500 for 5 500 for 1 again almost dropping to the ground, so I move to the preacher bench warm up a bit then smack on 100lbs I do 8 with 8sec negatives then 5with 8 sec negatives then barely 2 more the same way holding static at the last negative,just for fun I waited like 5 miniuts and busted out 8 more WTF is wrong with me? I havent seen any bicep growth in a while and I cant really understand what Im doing wrong, i am liking this routine a lot though any suggestions on my bicep work?

I'm not sure how u have your workout set up, as you look like you have rearranged it, well I would rearrange it back if i were you. I would definitely have quads last, as this is easily the most taxing part of the whole workout. I also wouldn't rp quads.

Ok, Bi's, I can make a couple more educated guesses at what is going on.

-Do 3-4 warm up sets before u hit your RP set.
-You are shortening the negative as the reps get harder
-If your partner helps u with 1 finger, or you have to cheat to get that rep up, that rep does not count.
-The other guesses I have, would be pretty much the same as the ones I have listed previously

Now you might not like my other 2 suggestions, but here they are. Read the first 3 posts of thread 3 more times, then read the CFP thread, the link to that thread has been posted on the first page. Because I see what you are doing with quads, my guess is that you lack a complete understanding of the system, I don't think there's any reason you would change the split if you did those 2 things. My guess is that maybe you just skimmed over some minor detail, but even if you didn't, I would still recommend doing those 2 things.

Ok, here is the bottom line, take the things i said above with a grain of salt and do it. So lets say you read all of that stuff, and now you have everything figured out to a tee, there is one thing that remains constant, you must beat that log every single time. Now if you're beating that log every time, and you're not gaining wt, then its a nutritional problem.

Hope this helps.

[saboudian]

i'm having trouble with the biceps stretch because of an old elbow injury. it makes my elbow feel hyperextended which is very painful. is there another stretch i can try?

I'm really liking the program though. i like being able to lift each muscle group more often.

Try kinda moving your shoulder around, I don't know how to explain it, but if you move your shoulder around, this stretch can either focus on your bi's or your shoulder.

If its still a problem, try doing the stretch side ways.

If its still a problem, do incline DB curl, without the curl

[bitta]

man believe me doing my quads first untill I cant walk doesnt seem to have any effect on my bi's at all. I would rather get in a huge squat set then a bicep set because I want more mass and by doing this I am able to exhaust my quads totaly and then I can sit down on a bench and work my arms. If I kill my biceps and forearms I would then seem to think that going to squat I would have trouble with grip and/or balance and therefore not get enough blast out of my squat rp. Are we pissing you off by trying this routine or are we really all mis-interpreting this?

[saboudian]

man believe me doing my quads first untill I cant walk doesnt seem to have any effect on my bi's at all. I would rather get in a huge squat set then a bicep set because I want more mass and by doing this I am able to exhaust my quads totaly and then I can sit down on a bench and work my arms. If I kill my biceps and forearms I would then seem to think that going to squat I would have trouble with grip and/or balance and therefore not get enough blast out of my squat rp. Are we pissing you off by trying this routine or are we really all mis-interpreting this?

It doesn't make me mad, because after a while i just stop caring what others do to it, because they seem to **** around with it regardless of whatever you tell them. So if ppl wanna **** it up, i don't really care that much. Now on the other hand, I know DC has stated several times that he gets mad when ppl mess with it, which is why you see him on so many boards now, because ppl just keep ****ing it up and he wants to make sure they know what his system is.

Misinterpret? Well for me to say that you misinterpreted the system would imply that I think you understand it and have read through it all, you just might not have completely understood a statement or two. I know you haven't read through it all, so I know you haven't misinterpreted it, because if you read it all, there is no way to misinterpret it, it is very clear, there is nothing ambiguous.

[bitta]

bro I dont think ambiguity is the issue I believe I just printed out and read the wrong thing four times this week alone, I will be happy to give you my phone # in pm if you can explain what I am missing b/c I really do respect the knowledge and indeed am thirsty to aquire it as well. I read the post on this thread and then several posts on other power lifting forums and the link that was provided,and let me say I really appreciate all of your help on this issue,you have responded to everyone's questions and that is admirable, brother I just want to fully understand this.

[saboudian]

bro I dont think ambiguity is the issue I believe I just printed out and read the wrong thing four times this week alone, I will be happy to give you my phone # in pm if you can explain what I am missing b/c I really do respect the knowledge and indeed am thirsty to aquire it as well. I read the post on this thread and then several posts on other power lifting forums and the link that was provided,and let me say I really appreciate all of your help on this issue,you have responded to everyone's questions and that is admirable, brother I just want to fully understand this.

I'm not trying to come off as being mean or mad, but you cannot control tone when typing, i'm really not upset, but it does get frustrating when ppl tell you they understand the system but then they move things around, and change things a lil bit. This is why i did get a lil upset, because u're rest pausing quads and you moved them, and if you don't understand why this is wrong, then next workout do a 20 rep squat set at the beginning of your next workout, or on the other day, why not start off with DL's instead?

[tiny20]

could someone tell me if im doing this right?
chest: 2 warmup sets 1 set of 8, take 12 deep breaths then a set of 4, take breaths then a set of 2 (failure) stretching
shoulders: same as chest
triceps: same as chest and shoulders
back: 2 warmup sets pulldowns behind the head then same as above.
back again: 2 warmup sets deadlifts then same as above.

[Animal Cracker]

good read!

[bitta]

o.k. I think im starting to feel like Im getting it,please explain your statement,ur rest pausing quads and you moved them. does that mean not let my partner help me up to rack ,just pause mid lift(static) and when my legs give out leave the bar where it is and crawl out from under it? I donrt get that statement,please tell me what to do on my last rep,how should my last squat rep look?

[saboudian]

o.k. I think im starting to feel like Im getting it,please explain your statement,ur rest pausing quads and you moved them. does that mean not let my partner help me up to rack ,just pause mid lift(static) and when my legs give out leave the bar where it is and crawl out from under it? I donrt get that statement,please tell me what to do on my last rep,how should my last squat rep look?

Quads are last in the workout, you'll see why in a second.

Quads are not rest paused. Do 3-4 warm up sets, and then go for the 20 rep set. Lemme define the 20 rep set, you pick a wt you can get 12 reps with(*8 if you're a man) and you go for 20 reps. Keep all the negatives controlled, don't bounce up and down, make sure you go deep on every rep, don't put your hands on your knees, and never lock out your knees. After that 12th rep, you are dead, so you kinda rest there,take a couple breaths, with your knees just slightly bent, and then go for that next rep, and keep repeating that till you get to 20. The entire set, even when you're in the rest position, there is constant tension on your quads, cuz you never lock out your knees and you're not bouncing up and down. This set might take 5-10 min, so be it.

Here is a quote from from the beginning of the thread from DC:

"Personally, if I do a 20 rep hack squat with slag iron heavy weights....at 10 reps I am seriously doubting I am going to make it---at 14 reps IM seeing colors---at 17 reps IM asking God for help--and the last 3 reps are life, death, or rigor mortis---I know for a fact that there is no way in hell I could do another 4-5 sets of hacks like that. I gave everything I had right there on that set. If I can do another 4-5 sets like that I'm cruising at 70% at the most. If all you get out of my articles is the mindset of heavy weights, low volume, stretching, and frequency of body parts trained-I would be very happy because then I would have you on the right path to get you where you want to be."


Now, I would stick to that 20 rep set and thats it for quads, especially if you're new to them. If after a while, you seem to hit a plateau, then you cad add in a hvy 4-8 rep set before the 20 rep set.

[tiny20]

bump

[PrairieDawg]

should you do the 6-10 sec negative on all your sets? I noticed that'll get me alittle tired for my working set.

also i have trouble doing wide grip pull-ups because of my shoulder. what other back width exercises are good besides lat pulldowns.

[saboudian]

should you do the 6-10 sec negative on all your sets? I noticed that'll get me alittle tired for my working set.

Only on your rest pause set. Warmup sets are just for warming up and shouldn't take anything away from your working set.

also i have trouble doing wide grip pull-ups because of my shoulder. what other back width exercises are good besides lat pulldowns.

Anything in the vertical plane.

[hybrid]

Great post. Glad I found it. I am going to incorporate these principles in my upcoming cycle. Good discussion as well here.

[BDTR]

I'd just like to say i'm now being trained by doggcrapp, we start in may, he says he can get me to 300+ with no problems at all. Great guy.