serious serious issue

**KGBnine** · 01-20-2005, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by IntensityX

By the way I see The Butt Pirate in your future

Do it, and suffer my wrath again!!!

**IntensityX** · 01-20-2005, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by aXe

Do it, and suffer my wrath again!!!

What wrath

**BDTR** · 01-20-2005, 05:50 AM

Great post MMA, agree 100%

**BDTR** · 01-20-2005, 06:10 AM

I know all too well.

Originally Posted by MMA

thanks BDTR. by the way, you're in that state.

**Bigen12** · 01-20-2005, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by aXe

In all honesty, I feel very sad for a person with a mindset like yours. Maybe this worked for you, but I wouldn't encourage anyone else to do this.And child support is based largely upon your current financial situation (I work for a divorce attorney). Maybe you hang out with deadbeat dads who skip out on child support (in response to claiming that a judge ordered a man to work two jobs)

Brother, I think you have been seeing this situation from just one side. I’ve been divorced for 3 years, and have been paying child support on my 3 children for that time and I can tell you that it isn’t fair. I adopted my children, they were my ex’s from a pervious marriage, this is a decision that I do not regret. However the child support laws in Georgia are not fair.

My ex, with the exaggerated amount of child support that I pay, sits at home and doesn’t work, but is able to buy new cars, horses and maintain them. While I work two jobs and barely scrape by, however I have never been late with child support.

Foster parents in Georgia receive $14.25 a day to for the care of foster children. This equates to $427.5 per child per month. I pay $1400 a month in child support for 3 children. The state would pay $1282.5 per month if they were foster children.

You may think this is close, and that I am only paying a little over what it really takes to raise a child, but when you consider that I should only be paying my half, with my ex paying the other half of what it takes to raise a child, it becomes a different story.

You may not be familiar with the child support laws in Georgia, they are based on percentages of the non custodial parent's gross income, which were derived from a study that was done in Wisconsin's which was based on the needs of welfare mothers. The study was compiled with the following factors, the mothers could not work and had no income and the father was completely absent. Per the Georgia Child Support law as it is written in 1989, the state was to perform its own study in the state of Georgia, with in 5 years, to date it has not.

In addition to this the custodial parent does not have to show the child support that they receive as income on their taxes but the non custodial parent can not claim the child support that they pay as a deduction. This equates to at least a $1500 dollar a year per child savings for the custodial parent and additional cost for the non custodial parent.

The custodial parent is able to list the children as dependents on their taxes, even though, in many cases the non custodial parent is paying for all, as in my case, of the child rearing expenses.

I have my children for 20% of the year, every other weekend, holidays, one week in summer and one week at Christmas. This time when my children are with me is not even considered, when setting the amount of child support that I pay.

I understand your concern for “deadbeat dads” but you are missing the point that the laws are not fair.

**FCECC2** · 01-20-2005, 07:06 AM

a bit off topic but anyway... if i get my tubes cut will it mess with my testosterone level??? reading all those story makes me freak out seriously...

***xxx*** · 01-20-2005, 08:10 AM

wow, I d be pissed off if my ex wife would live such a life on my behalf....

***SV-1*** · 01-20-2005, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by TRLS63

a bit off topic but anyway... if i get my tubes cut will it mess with my testosterone level??? reading all those story makes me freak out seriously...

No it wont. I had this done several years ago, and it's soooooo nice to not have to worry about any unexpected babies (failure rate is only 0.02-0.1%).

**Bigen12** · 01-20-2005, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by MMA

also, in my state, they absolutely will not reduce payments because you have more children. they always say "you should have planned that b4 you had more children". they conveniently ignore the fact that families normally adjust what they spend on their children based on how many kids you have. you can have a child for 10 years and give him everything. but if you end up having twins later, obviously you're going to adjust the amount you spend per child.

if bens state has a similar law, he may never be able to afford to have children of his own, because he will have to give a disproportionate amount of his income to his ex and her kids.

In Georgia, the judge can reduce child support due to the non custodial parent having additional children, but it is a very small reduction, and not even worth the cost of taking it to court. I am about to remarry and if I have another child, it will be very difficult.

I am fortunate in one way though, my oldest is 18 this month, and the other two are 16 and 13, so I won’t have to pay for too many more years.

**FCECC2** · 01-20-2005, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by SV-1

No it wont. I had this done several years ago, and it's soooooo nice to not have to worry about any unexpected babies (failure rate is only 0.02-0.1%).

greeeeeeat

thanks!

**jonnytour** · 01-20-2005, 09:26 AM

My biological father left when I was 5 months old. He left my mom with me and my older brother who has cerebral palsy, for another woman. He never paid a cent. I am not saying that the child support laws are fair either. I worked with a guy who loved his childere dearly. His wife left him for another man. She was awarded custody and he had to pay support. This guy broke down and cried several times at work because his X used the kids as bargining chips when ever he would want to get things better for himself. The laws are biased towards men; favouring women. I hope everything turns out well for you Bigen and Angel. I wish my father had lived up to his responsibilities. Make sure you do.

**Bigen12** · 01-20-2005, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by jonnytour

My biological father left when I was 5 months old. He left my mom with me and my older brother who has cerebral palsy, for another woman. He never paid a cent. I am not saying that the child support laws are fair either. I worked with a guy who loved his childere dearly. His wife left him for another man. She was awarded custody and he had to pay support. This guy broke down and cried several times at work because his X used the kids as bargining chips when ever he would want to get things better for himself. The laws are biased towards men; favouring women. I hope everything turns out well for you Bigen and Angel. I wish my father had lived up to his responsibilities. Make sure you do.

I do and will continue to, we have a blast when ever I have them, we go and do constantly, they are a lot of fun.

It’s the fathers who don’t live up to their responsibilities that have caused the laws to be written with such an extreme bias against the father.

**jonnytour** · 01-20-2005, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Bigen12

I do and will continue to, we have a blast when ever I have them, we go and do constantly, they are a lot of fun.

It’s the fathers who don’t live up to their responsibilities that have caused the laws to be written with such an extreme bias against the father.

I agree. You are a good man Bigen, and a good father! Hope all goes well with the second marriage. Congrats man!

**Bigen12** · 01-20-2005, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by jonnytour

I agree. You are a good man Bigen, and a good father! Hope all goes well with the second marriage. Congrats man!

Thanks

**palme** · 01-20-2005, 10:25 AM

She lied about her age so no worries for you there.

She's probly lying about being pregnant too and if not you wore a condom so its probly some other fools baby.

If it is yours...then i think you should talk to her and make an abortion. Its best for the baby imo.

**KGBnine** · 01-20-2005, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by MMA

where did that come from? i never advocated abandoning a child. i have a child that i have taken very good care of under very difficult circumstances.

you work for a divorce attorney...they are not payed to get fair and equitable settlements, their job is it TAKE as much as they possibly can. it may say differently on their canon of ethics, but that is the reality.

you haven't even asked what state i live in, so it would be very difficult for you to comment on my states laws. often, a particular lobby, special interest, or politically correct group will push very hard and twist something that was created for a good purpose into something for their own agenda.

child support payments are often inflated to create "hidden alimony". you work 2 jobs so she doesn't have to work 1.

you're right, the judge can't "order" you to work 90 hours a week. but he can set your support payments higher than your income from 1 job, and throw you in prison if you don't make them.

support payments higher than your income are not not theoretical, they have happened quite frequently. in my state, your payments are base off of "potential" income: how many jobs/hours your some judge sitting at a desk thinks you could possibly work. and if you have ever done 80 hours a week in the past, he can expect you to do it again...for 21 years.

b4 anyone thinks i'm exagerating the power of these lobbies and the injustices they can create, in my state, they will force you to pay even AFTER the blood test proves it's not your child. if she is able to swindle you for more than 2 years, then you have to continue to pay until they're 21. and the payments will not be reduced if you later have childen of your own, and they are going without becauase you have to make massive payments to some strangers child. BTW - in my state, support for a single child (maybe not even yours) is a quarter million dollars for a man with a $50,000 a year income. or a man who can have a $50,000 income if forced to work enough overtime.

effectively denying the father visitation, by forcing him to work 90 hours a week DOES NOT benefit a child. a child is better off having the support of both parents.

The main reason I addressed your "advice" was because it seemed really immature to persuade a person who just found out he might have a kid(s) to go through with an abortion. And your main reasoning was that he'll get screwed over with child support payments. I'm sorry, but that last time i checked a child is more important than the amount of money he.she is going to cost you. But thanks for sharing your "patented clinic talk", I'll be sure to never use it. I think what should be stressed is the importance of understanding consequences. But I'm in no position to persuade for or against an abortion, I just think it was in bad taste for you to.But to each his own.

My second issue was with your claim of a judge ordering a man to work two job (I can quote you if you like). I live in california and Child Support is based upon wages, and if you are unemployed it is based on minimum wage. I'd like to learn more about your state since you claim the law allows a judge to order a man to pay more than he makes.

I do agree with you that some guys do get screwed in court, but In my experiences @ a family law firm it has mainly been with visitation. And please don't try to claim there are no deadbeat dads, passing it off as a politically correct/incorrect statement, because it happens all the time. You wouldn't believe how many dads I've talked to who bitch about the money they have to pay. My answer to them is to make better decisions, accept the consequences or get a better lawyer. I'm just not sure how a baby that is unexpected = a lifetime of misery.

**KGBnine** · 01-20-2005, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Bigen12

Brother, I think you have been seeing this situation from just one side. I’ve been divorced for 3 years, and have been paying child support on my 3 children for that time and I can tell you that it isn’t fair. I adopted my children, they were my ex’s from a pervious marriage, this is a decision that I do not regret. However the child support laws in Georgia are not fair.

My ex, with the exaggerated amount of child support that I pay, sits at home and doesn’t work, but is able to buy new cars, horses and maintain them. While I work two jobs and barely scrape by, however I have never been late with child support.

I feel your pain bro, seriously. I think my post was misunderstood. I realize that there are some honest hearted guys that get screwed over by some scantless women. I just had a major problem with MMA's advice regarding telling a girl whatever it takes for her to get an abortion and not feeling an ounce of shame.Especially since angelX just found all thit out. I guess I'm not that heartless though.

Good luck with everything Angel, keep us updated brutha.

**Commando_Barbi** · 01-20-2005, 02:21 PM

I have to agree.....I didn't much appreciate MMA's tactics on getting her to get an abortion....but didn't agree with the attack either.

Hope it all works out for Angel and the women/babies involved.

Originally Posted by aXe

I feel your pain bro, seriously. I think my post was misunderstood. I realize that there are some honest hearted guys that get screwed over by some scantless women. I just had a major problem with MMA's advice regarding telling a girl whatever it takes for her to get an abortion and not feeling an ounce of shame.Especially since angelX just found all thit out. I guess I'm not that heartless though.

Good luck with everything Angel, keep us updated brutha.

**KGBnine** · 01-20-2005, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Commando_Barbi

I have to agree.....I didn't much appreciate MMA's tactics on getting her to get an abortion....but didn't agree with the attack either.

Hope it all works out for Angel and the women/babies involved.

Thanks CB, I knew I wasn't the only one that disagreed. And to MMA, I respect everyone's opinion and I'm not attacking you. I just didn't agree with it, that's all. But to each his own.

**KGBnine** · 01-20-2005, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by MMA

so if bigben walked into your office, and complained about the payments being unfair, you would immediately label him as a "deadbeat dad"? be honest. b4 u labeled him would even ask to find out that he has never been late with a payment, and they aren't even his kids. would you ask to find out why he has to work 2 jobs, so she doesn't have to work at all. would you ask about her horses and her cars? would you ask how hard these payments were making it for him to be able to start a family and have children of his own? of course not! like you said, if they complain, they're a deadbeat dad.

No, I most certainly do not think every guy who questions his CS or SS payment is a deadbeat dad. Some guys do get screwed.I guess what it boils down to is that there are consequences to the choices we make, such as a one-night stand. I think if you're willing to make decisions that can burn you in the end, you need to Man up and take the consequences, not brush it off and act shady like your "patented idea"

**KGBnine** · 01-20-2005, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by MMA

. it doesn't use any kind of threat or violence, but it may involve lying. however, the person you're using it on usually had to lie to you to create the situation in the first place "i'm on the pill, don't worry about it". .

lol...well here's your first mistake. Never assume a girl you just met is telling the truth when she says she's on the pill. Better to be safe then sorry. And if you do believe, man up and take the consequences like I said before.If you choose to go thru with an abortion, so be it. Who am I to judge? But this is not the situation Angel is in, so I don't knwo why you are using it as an argument.

**Anteros** · 01-20-2005, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by MMA

so if bigben walked into your office, and complained about the payments being unfair, you would immediately label him as a "deadbeat dad"? be honest. b4 u labeled him would even ask to find out that he has never been late with a payment, and they aren't even his kids. would you ask to find out why he has to work 2 jobs, so she doesn't have to work at all. would you ask about her horses and her cars? would you ask how hard these payments were making it for him to be able to start a family and have children of his own? of course not! like you said, if they complain, they're a deadbeat dad.

I agree with you 100% on everything uve said thus far MMA...many dont bother looking at an issue from all angles and just focus on the first thing that pops out ,then generalize that notion to mask the whole situation. Not that im undermining anyone's opinions regarding what MMA has said, just the way I see it.

**KGBnine** · 01-20-2005, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by Anteros

I agree with you 100% on everything uve said thus far MMA...many dont bother looking at an issue from all angles and just focus on the first thing that pops out ,then generalize that notion to mask the whole situation. Not that im undermining anyone's opinions regarding what MMA has said, just the way I see it.

I'm not sure if you're talking about my posts, but I'd like to see where I generalized AngelX? I never said he was any of these people. I understand some guys get screwed by ex-wives/GF's, but I also understand there are fathers who feel sorry for themselves and expect others too also.

**Commando_Barbi** · 01-20-2005, 09:00 PM

My thing is that abortion is a personal decision between the two of them and should be arrived at after honest discussion. Not lying, badgering, and tricking. There are many options out there ... adoption being one of them.

I've told my daughter many times.......and it stands here. If you make adult decisions (i.e. sex, sex with a stranger, etc) YOU better be ready for adult consequences. PERIOD.

She didn't drug him and drag him to bed. He made a choice to have a one night with a young woman (child). Did she lie........sure she did and it was wrong. But how smart is having sex with a person you met a few hours ago?

Now she's possibly pregnant and it might or might not be his. And now he has to wait and see. And if she is, and if she decides to keep it and if it's his......he has to deal with it. Not just his life is affected here.....so is her's. She's a kid facing being a mother, or taking a life to avoid being a mother or carrying this child for 9 months, growing attached to it and giving it up. You talk like this is just such an easy thing. Oh just kill it. You don't KNOW what that does to a person.

Everyone wants the quick fix solution.......but there is no quick fix here. Any decision made will affect one or both of them for the REST of their lives.

Originally Posted by MMA

i think you may have misread my post. i clearly stated that i believed this was best for all parties concerned. the child support issues (which DO strongly affect families) were added as an afterthought.

"Tell her ANYTHING that it takes to get her to agree, and do not feel an ounce of shame about it, because you're saving 3 people from a lifetime of misery - yourself, her, and your unborn child. DO NOT let her sleep a wink, and then go to the clinic. don't tell her where you're going, and hold her hand as you go in. if possible, have a couple of friends on hand to run interference from the protesters - they're BRUTAL! maintain contact for several weeks after, to make sure she actually did it. then run like hell! she'll hate you forever, but you've done her the biggest favor of her life."

and i didn't advise him to just abort any child he has, just the one that seemed to lead to a lot of heartache and misery for everyone involved. the second pregnancy, with a quality girl, with values, that he loved, i advised "follow your heart"

"My second issue was with your claim of a judge ordering a man to work two job (I can quote you if you like). I live in california and Child Support is based upon wages, and if you are unemployed it is based on minimum wage. I'd like to learn more about your state since you claim the law allows a judge to order a man to pay more than he makes."

i can PM you my state and you can look it up if you want.

"I do agree with you that some guys do get screwed in court, but In my experiences @ a family law firm it has mainly been with visitation. And please don't try to claim there are no deadbeat dads, passing it off as a politically correct/incorrect statement, because it happens all the time. You wouldn't believe how many dads I've talked to who bitch about the money they have to pay. My answer to them is to make better decisions, accept the consequences or get a better lawyer. "

i NEVER stated that there were no such thing as deadbeat dads. i just stated that when good fathers attempted to discuss injustices in the system, they were immediately labeled deadbeat dads by the politically correct. in your own post above, you immediately labeled every father who thought the payment amount was injust as a deadbeat dad. did you investigate to diascover whether it was fair or not b4 you labeled them? what if they have other children, that are suffering horribly because they are forced to give a ridiculous and unfair amount of money to their ex wife? THAT is what i was addressing. if i posted ANYWHERE that there were no such thing as deadbeat dads, please post it, i'd like to see it.

"I'm just not sure how a baby that is unexpected = a lifetime of misery."

it usually doesn't, but sometimes it does. angels first scenario had a lot of the hallmarks. maybe i'm wrong, and the skank from the one night stand is actually angelxreminators true soulmate, and he will ditch his ex girlfriend and live happily ever after with his one night stand. but this is not likely, and you have to deal with the realities of the situation.

**KGBnine** · 01-21-2005, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by Commando_Barbi

My thing is that abortion is a personal decision between the two of them and should be arrived at after honest discussion. Not lying, badgering, and tricking. There are many options out there ... adoption being one of them.

I've told my daughter many times.......and it stands here. If you make adult decisions (i.e. sex, sex with a stranger, etc) YOU better be ready for adult consequences. PERIOD.

She didn't drug him and drag him to bed. He made a choice to have a one night with a young woman (child). Did she lie........sure she did and it was wrong. But how smart is having sex with a person you met a few hours ago?

Now she's possibly pregnant and it might or might not be his. And now he has to wait and see. And if she is, and if she decides to keep it and if it's his......he has to deal with it. Not just his life is affected here.....so is her's. She's a kid facing being a mother, or taking a life to avoid being a mother or carrying this child for 9 months, growing attached to it and giving it up. You talk like this is just such an easy thing. Oh just kill it. You don't KNOW what that does to a person.

Everyone wants the quick fix solution.......but there is no quick fix here. Any decision made will affect one or both of them for the REST of their lives.

You just stated what I was thinking, but I had a hard time putting it into words. lol

**Bigen12** · 01-21-2005, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by aXe

No, I most certainly do not think every guy who questions his CS or SS payment is a deadbeat dad. Some guys do get screwed.

At least, in the state of Georgia, I can tell you that the majority of guys get screwed, it is the way the laws were written.

**angelxterminator** · 01-21-2005, 11:18 PM

UPDATE (for those who haven't hijacked god ****it

)

well, the 17 year old girl went to the clinic on thursday to get a blood test for HCG (the hormone that is present during pregnancy)....
she IS indeed pregnant, her parents know now as well about the whole issue, so statutory issues no longer exist (thank god)

I'm back in mass now, went to a local "planned parenthood" clinic in the area with my ex girlfriend so she could, as well, have a blood test....
and she, as well....IS pregnant

Paternity is another issue. The 17 year old and her family have been very logical, and they are level headed people. She is getting a medical abortion, which consists of administration of 2 different hormones, both orally.

As far as my ex girlfriend, i'm not sure what the course of action is yet, but if there is any chance of keeping this child, I am ABSOLUTELY forcing her into agreement of a prenatal paternity test. I want to know if i am the father before this child is born, as if I am, i will need to make changes accordingly in my life...If i am not, well she can lick the sweat off my balls after swoles leg workout

I'll post back on this in a few days/a week or so when the situation is coming to a resolve for both women

**BeerBaron** · 01-21-2005, 11:32 PM

Good news bro, in Jersey the age of concent is 16 so you would be off the hook here anyways, but I don't know NY laws. Abortions are the way to go, and I have used planned parent hood as well, although I find appointments are usually backed up for a month or so.

**Commando_Barbi** · 01-22-2005, 11:33 AM

How nice for you there's such an easy way to clean up your messes. Its just so easy for you isn't it.....you knock a girl up and she just get's rid of it. Do you ever stop to think what it does to a woman emotionally when she gets an abortion? I'm all for a womans choice and for doing what's right for all concerned........I just don't appreciate the cavalier attitude about something so serious and life altering.

I have personally escorted two of my young female sailors to get abortions because their "boyfriends" insisted on abortions, denied that they were responsible, etc etc..... The women made the choice that was best for them, but after the procedure was over I sat with both of them as they cried because of what they had done. They both have perm. scars from this while the two boys that had 50% of the responsibility for the situation are running around screwing other women thinking to themselves how lucky they are they didnt get stuck with some unwanted kid and the responsiblity.

I'm not saying that's how you feel or act.....it's just bothers me a bit how some men think this is such a SIMPLE decision. It's just a procedure after all. Easy.....quick and then YOUR life returns to normal.

Not that easy......for MOST women.

Sorry to hijack your thread .... just needed to put out the other side of the story.

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

Good news bro, in Jersey the age of concent is 16 so you would be off the hook here anyways, but I don't know NY laws. Abortions are the way to go, and I have used planned parent hood as well, although I find appointments are usually backed up for a month or so.

**Commando_Barbi** · 01-22-2005, 11:38 AM

Angel -

Sounds like things are working out. I'm happy for you that the parents of this teenager are being so level headed about it and you sound like you have been taking a very mature stance.

I think the prenatal test is a good idea....I don't know....do they do that through amnio? IF that's the case ewwww. That is some scarey shyte. Big needle down through the stomach.....if she's willing that is great for both of you. I couldn't do it. I'd just have to agree to be on my own until the baby was born and then sort it out later. I don't like needles at all! Ewwwww.

Good luck with it all.

C.B.

Originally Posted by angelxterminator

UPDATE (for those who haven't hijacked god ****it

)

well, the 17 year old girl went to the clinic on thursday to get a blood test for HCG (the hormone that is present during pregnancy)....
she IS indeed pregnant, her parents know now as well about the whole issue, so statutory issues no longer exist (thank god)

I'm back in mass now, went to a local "planned parenthood" clinic in the area with my ex girlfriend so she could, as well, have a blood test....
and she, as well....IS pregnant

Paternity is another issue. The 17 year old and her family have been very logical, and they are level headed people. She is getting a medical abortion, which consists of administration of 2 different hormones, both orally.

As far as my ex girlfriend, i'm not sure what the course of action is yet, but if there is any chance of keeping this child, I am ABSOLUTELY forcing her into agreement of a prenatal paternity test. I want to know if i am the father before this child is born, as if I am, i will need to make changes accordingly in my life...If i am not, well she can lick the sweat off my balls after swoles leg workout

I'll post back on this in a few days/a week or so when the situation is coming to a resolve for both women