Warrior's short cycle feedback

[marcus300]

This is Warriors feedback on his short cycle and prime he recently finished, he gave his permission to post it in here for everyone to see, ive took out the dosages, ive also got pics before and after which are amazing will try and get them posted up in here for you,

His conculsion of the whole concept is at the bottem of the page but please take you time in reading it all its very intresting-



Here is my final feedback on heavy/short cycles... (cycle log)

... I was skeptical at first, but now I think this is a great way to arrange periods of AAS use...

I went from 228 down to a depleted 220 during a precycle prime using a Cyclic Keto Diet with depletion training during the week and a power routine after a carb load. Fat decreased and strnegth managed to improve a bit.

The cycle was ??? of testosterone enanthate every other day (??mg/wk); a frontload of ??mg of Sustanon on day one and ?mg on day two started it off to peak blood hormone levels right away. Insulin (10 IU) was used post workout during the final 2 weeks.

First shot (beginning the frontload) was on 2 Nov and the last shot was on 8 Dec....

Then, beginning the heavy cycle, I switched up to a doggcrapp-based training split and started pounding food... lots of whole foods, chicken, beef, veggies, rice - I ate at least 4 whole meals per day with snacks in between. Postworkout was dextrose and creatine... I flooded myself with incoming nutrition for maximal gains while peaking androgen levels.

I liked this cycle pattern due to these reasons:

4-5 weeks to make a big difference - 4-5 weeks, that’s a lot of pressure to give every workout 110% max effort. I went in ready to move weights, and to move much more than the last workout.
Training on all cylinders - I don't normally go this high with exogenous T. In fact, this is 4 times the amount I used in my cycle earlier this year (250mg E4D simply to support a cutting diet). It certainly took me out of a training rut, physically and mentally - I felt pumped and recover better than ever. Almost like a first cycle experience. Something magical does happen at this dose... mentally and from a physically-pumped stand point.
One movement each day - A doggcrapp style routine is perfect with this because that one rest-pause movement is my make or break moment. I don't remember dumbbell triceps extensions ever leaving my arms sore for a few days - especially as the only movement for triceps that day! I used a two-days-on and one-day-off split based on the DC theory.
Minimal impact on HPTA and blood work – I found coming off this heavy cycle to be very easy. I had some elevated aggression to deal with but that was about it. For the several weeks following the last shot, here were no major swings in sex drive, general disposition remained positive and training remained focused and intense. PCT should be brief and painless.

Blood test were on 25 November - 23 days into the short cycle (from 2 Nov to 8 Dec)...

My complete blood count was good. Everything normal. The only issue I could bring up is Platelet count: 170. Average is 150-450... so it's in the norm - but in the low end. This could lead to slower blood clotting. Here are some other values:

White blood cell count: 5.05
Red blood cell count:: 4.65
Haemoglobin: 144
Haematocrit: .424

Fasting blood glucose was good - certainly far from a diabetes concern. Creatinine levels are high, placing stress on the kidneys. But since Uric Acid levels are okay and BUN is only slightly elevated - I am not too concerned for my kidney's health; other than I need to drink more water. Liver/muscle enzymes were also elevated but these are not concerning me either - the values are conclusive to the fact that the liver receives extra stress from strength training via injury and the micro trauma to the muscles. This is obviously also due to the high calorie/protein diet while bulking up. Alkaline Phosphatase showed very healthy liver values.

Glucose is 82.87
BUN: 20.4
Creatinine: 1.41
Uric Acid: 5.75
SGPT (ALT): 47
SGOT (AST): 67
Alkaline Phosphatase: 51

Moving on to Cholesterol... the big winner here is that almost 2 grams of testosterone per week and I still have healthy values. LDL may be a little elevated but according to the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute, I have healthy cholesterol levels. LDL level is not bad - its just that the ratio is to HDL is poor. The big surprise here was blood triglycerides - that are only 34.54 - this is very low. I guess I should exercise less and eat more McDonalds!

Cholesterol: 172.08
HDL: 80.43
LDL: 88.55
Triglycerides: 34.54
LDL-C/HDL-C: 1.1

The real winner was estrogen! I am not sure if this should concern me at all. I have been taking 20mg of Nolvadex everyday - and I don't think I will change it. But coming off this cycle, I will need to be sure to address the high estrogen levels quickly, so as to not delay recovery of the HPTA. Honestly, considering all the testosterone reacting with aromatase - I don't think it is that bad.

Estradiol: 244.51

Strength:

Obviously strength went up. Going into the prime I was benching 335 for 5 reps and 5 sets... after the prime, I was squeezing out 365 for 5 reps and 5 sets. Then, after the cycle - actually 3 weeks after - I am benching 415 for 5 reps, 5 sets. Squats also went up... everything went up, significantly. Grip strength (static holding 100-pound plates) increased by an impressive 22 seconds.

I did notice that I was able to get 100 percent focus and effort for morning training sessions by making sure I ate late - right before bed. I was chasing a psychological high that was amplified as long as I kept focused on consistent food intake.

Cardio:

My cardio output improved, despite the greater body mass... which was interesting. Going into the priming phase, I peaked at 1011 calories burned within 60 minutes on a LifeCycle on 16 September, weighing 228 pounds. After the cycle I was up to 1210 calories on 24 December, weighing 250 pounds... which was some major energy output - especially considering the heavier bodyweight (which the LifeCycle does not figure in as a factor for generating the calories burned - apparently it works off the intensity levels used only).

Bodycomposition:

I yielded growth in every measurement. Calves too showed little the first two weeks - then sprouted up. These changes reflect 2 November until 06 Dec.

Neck: 19 1/4 +2
Chest: 45 1/2 +3
Arms: 18 3/4 +1 1/4
Waist: 39 +3
Thigh: 27 1/2 +1 1/4
Calve: 18 1/4 +1 1/4

My weight gains came early, and then slowly increased after the initial increase. Nov 1, I was 220 pounds entering a carb load; Nov 7, I was 240… 20 pounds in 6 days!

I started at 228 pounds... primed to 220 and then hit the cycle and peaked at 254.4 (I believe that day was a lot of water). I found that pounding Juniper Berries was very helpful for combating water retention. I started to hold 250 at the end of the cycle and continue to hold it nearly 3 weeks since the last shot of TE.

My waistline went up with everything else. Meaning I had to have gained some fat with this. I felt like I was getting too soft during the cycle... but after I came off the heavy dose of T, vascularity became evident again. However, at 250 pounds - I need to lean down. I think I could cut this down to about 230 and be very pleased... of course, while maintaining muscle a strength.

After a holiday breather (and a maintenance diet/training routine), I am going to move back into an intense CKD cutter to dial myself in. Right now, I don't want anything delaying cues for full recovery of the HPTA and endogenous testosterone production. I figure another 2 weeks or so should be plenty.
Attached Thumbnails

My future intentions are to use this short/heavy run for adding muscle - period. Coming off is very easy and the quick results continue to surprise me. Next time I might add something to the test (like nandrolone ) or try and increase it a bit further... but as always, I'll keep a running journal and let you know what my feedback is...

I will continue to use lower doses for a bit longer duration simply for retaining muscle and pumps while cutting. 2007 will be bulk with the short/heavy cycles and cut with the convential cycling methods.

[perfectbeast2001]

interesting post.

[marcus300]

warriors before and after photos

[G-1000]

This is Warriors feedback on his short cycle and prime he recently finished, he gave his permission to post it in here for everyone to see, ive took out the dosages, ive also got pics before and after which are amazing will try and get them posted up in here for you,

His conculsion of the whole concept is at the bottem of the page but please take you time in reading it all its very intresting-



Here is my final feedback on heavy/short cycles... (cycle log)

... I was skeptical at first, but now I think this is a great way to arrange periods of AAS use...

I went from 228 down to a depleted 220 during a precycle prime using a Cyclic Keto Diet with depletion training during the week and a power routine after a carb load. Fat decreased and strnegth managed to improve a bit.

The cycle was ??? of testosterone enanthate every other day (??mg/wk); a frontload of ??mg of Sustanon on day one and ?mg on day two started it off to peak blood hormone levels right away. Insulin (10 IU) was used post workout during the final 2 weeks.

First shot (beginning the frontload) was on 2 Nov and the last shot was on 8 Dec....

Then, beginning the heavy cycle, I switched up to a doggcrapp-based training split and started pounding food... lots of whole foods, chicken, beef, veggies, rice - I ate at least 4 whole meals per day with snacks in between. Postworkout was dextrose and creatine... I flooded myself with incoming nutrition for maximal gains while peaking androgen levels.

I liked this cycle pattern due to these reasons:

4-5 weeks to make a big difference - 4-5 weeks, that’s a lot of pressure to give every workout 110% max effort. I went in ready to move weights, and to move much more than the last workout.
Training on all cylinders - I don't normally go this high with exogenous T. In fact, this is 4 times the amount I used in my cycle earlier this year (250mg E4D simply to support a cutting diet). It certainly took me out of a training rut, physically and mentally - I felt pumped and recover better than ever. Almost like a first cycle experience. Something magical does happen at this dose... mentally and from a physically-pumped stand point.
One movement each day - A doggcrapp style routine is perfect with this because that one rest-pause movement is my make or break moment. I don't remember dumbbell triceps extensions ever leaving my arms sore for a few days - especially as the only movement for triceps that day! I used a two-days-on and one-day-off split based on the DC theory.
Minimal impact on HPTA and blood work – I found coming off this heavy cycle to be very easy. I had some elevated aggression to deal with but that was about it. For the several weeks following the last shot, here were no major swings in sex drive, general disposition remained positive and training remained focused and intense. PCT should be brief and painless.

Blood test were on 25 November - 23 days into the short cycle (from 2 Nov to 8 Dec)...

My complete blood count was good. Everything normal. The only issue I could bring up is Platelet count: 170. Average is 150-450... so it's in the norm - but in the low end. This could lead to slower blood clotting. Here are some other values:

White blood cell count: 5.05
Red blood cell count:: 4.65
Haemoglobin: 144
Haematocrit: .424

Fasting blood glucose was good - certainly far from a diabetes concern. Creatinine levels are high, placing stress on the kidneys. But since Uric Acid levels are okay and BUN is only slightly elevated - I am not too concerned for my kidney's health; other than I need to drink more water. Liver/muscle enzymes were also elevated but these are not concerning me either - the values are conclusive to the fact that the liver receives extra stress from strength training via injury and the micro trauma to the muscles. This is obviously also due to the high calorie/protein diet while bulking up. Alkaline Phosphatase showed very healthy liver values.

Glucose is 82.87
BUN: 20.4
Creatinine: 1.41
Uric Acid: 5.75
SGPT (ALT): 47
SGOT (AST): 67
Alkaline Phosphatase: 51

Moving on to Cholesterol... the big winner here is that almost 2 grams of testosterone per week and I still have healthy values. LDL may be a little elevated but according to the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute, I have healthy cholesterol levels. LDL level is not bad - its just that the ratio is to HDL is poor. The big surprise here was blood triglycerides - that are only 34.54 - this is very low. I guess I should exercise less and eat more McDonalds!

Cholesterol: 172.08
HDL: 80.43
LDL: 88.55
Triglycerides: 34.54
LDL-C/HDL-C: 1.1

The real winner was estrogen! I am not sure if this should concern me at all. I have been taking 20mg of Nolvadex everyday - and I don't think I will change it. But coming off this cycle, I will need to be sure to address the high estrogen levels quickly, so as to not delay recovery of the HPTA. Honestly, considering all the testosterone reacting with aromatase - I don't think it is that bad.

Estradiol: 244.51

Strength:

Obviously strength went up. Going into the prime I was benching 335 for 5 reps and 5 sets... after the prime, I was squeezing out 365 for 5 reps and 5 sets. Then, after the cycle - actually 3 weeks after - I am benching 415 for 5 reps, 5 sets. Squats also went up... everything went up, significantly. Grip strength (static holding 100-pound plates) increased by an impressive 22 seconds.

I did notice that I was able to get 100 percent focus and effort for morning training sessions by making sure I ate late - right before bed. I was chasing a psychological high that was amplified as long as I kept focused on consistent food intake.

Cardio:

My cardio output improved, despite the greater body mass... which was interesting. Going into the priming phase, I peaked at 1011 calories burned within 60 minutes on a LifeCycle on 16 September, weighing 228 pounds. After the cycle I was up to 1210 calories on 24 December, weighing 250 pounds... which was some major energy output - especially considering the heavier bodyweight (which the LifeCycle does not figure in as a factor for generating the calories burned - apparently it works off the intensity levels used only).

Bodycomposition:

I yielded growth in every measurement. Calves too showed little the first two weeks - then sprouted up. These changes reflect 2 November until 06 Dec.

Neck: 19 1/4 +2
Chest: 45 1/2 +3
Arms: 18 3/4 +1 1/4
Waist: 39 +3
Thigh: 27 1/2 +1 1/4
Calve: 18 1/4 +1 1/4

My weight gains came early, and then slowly increased after the initial increase. Nov 1, I was 220 pounds entering a carb load; Nov 7, I was 240… 20 pounds in 6 days!

I started at 228 pounds... primed to 220 and then hit the cycle and peaked at 254.4 (I believe that day was a lot of water). I found that pounding Juniper Berries was very helpful for combating water retention. I started to hold 250 at the end of the cycle and continue to hold it nearly 3 weeks since the last shot of TE.

My waistline went up with everything else. Meaning I had to have gained some fat with this. I felt like I was getting too soft during the cycle... but after I came off the heavy dose of T, vascularity became evident again. However, at 250 pounds - I need to lean down. I think I could cut this down to about 230 and be very pleased... of course, while maintaining muscle a strength.

After a holiday breather (and a maintenance diet/training routine), I am going to move back into an intense CKD cutter to dial myself in. Right now, I don't want anything delaying cues for full recovery of the HPTA and endogenous testosterone production. I figure another 2 weeks or so should be plenty.
Attached Thumbnails

My future intentions are to use this short/heavy run for adding muscle - period. Coming off is very easy and the quick results continue to surprise me. Next time I might add something to the test (like nandrolone ) or try and increase it a bit further... but as always, I'll keep a running journal and let you know what my feedback is...

I will continue to use lower doses for a bit longer duration simply for retaining muscle and pumps while cutting. 2007 will be bulk with the short/heavy cycles and cut with the convential cycling methods.

Key.

[marcus300]

Key.

I started at 228 pounds... primed to 220 and then hit the cycle and peaked at 254.4 (I believe that day was a lot of water). I found that pounding Juniper Berries was very helpful for combating water retention. I started to hold 250 at the end of the cycle and continue to hold it nearly 3 weeks since the last shot of TE.

[MotoLifter]

very interesting, thanks for he time and effort that went into that. somthing to consider

[BigMaus]

Marcus helped me with a simulair cycle.
Prime was good, but not long enough......my mistake.

However, i did gain 16 lbs and it was the best cycle i ever did!

Sure i gained in a longer cycle more, but i feal its much better to limit the weeks youre on.
Recovery was very fast also.

[G-1000]

I started at 228 pounds... primed to 220 and then hit the cycle and peaked at 254.4 (I believe that day was a lot of water). I found that pounding Juniper Berries was very helpful for combating water retention. I started to hold 250 at the end of the cycle and continue to hold it nearly 3 weeks since the last shot of TE.

I did not say i dont belive him. I just pointed out all the facters i feel played the largest rolls.

[G-1000]

Nov 1, I was 220 pounds entering a carb load; Nov 7, I was 240… 20 pounds in 6 days! Damn brotha!

he went into this carb depleted. depending on his build he could have Been down 5-15 pounds right there. That also means that he was dehydrated as well.

Marcus i have read he post.

[marcus300]

The prime is not as harsh as a comp diet, prime for short cycling is to open the growth window by carb cycling, if done correctly it should be just body fat what is lost and no muscle or water,

warrior was a firm believer that this system would not work, but he designed it to suit his body and results are amazing, its well worth trying it may just change your way of cycling and produce more tissue and less sides,

[G-1000]

The prime is not as harsh as a comp diet, prime for short cycling is to open the growth window by carb cycling, if done correctly it should be just body fat what is lost and no muscle or water,

warrior was a firm believer that this system would not work, but he designed it to suit his body and results are amazing, its well worth trying it may just change your way of cycling and produce more tissue and less sides,

I would liek to see it done a little diffrent. mor like this.


1-6 test susp
1-6 winny
1-4 igf
4-6 slin

I bet you can get a good 15 max 20 pounds out of that. At the same time keeping bf low. You would not need to have such a crazt frt load. I also feel ythis would give much less water bloat.

[G-1000]

Now that im looking at this. I might wont to hold off on my big cycle and run that.

[marcus300]

Now that im looking at this. I might wont to hold off on my big cycle and run that.

dosages would depend on the BB's history, also priming is the key to opening the window for growth spurt, good luck either way you go

[G-1000]

dosages would depend on the BB's history, also priming is the key to opening the window for growth spurt, good luck either way you go

Well we will see. That means i would have to get teh test susp and make it. I dont know i just wont to start a cycle. I have so much work into the other one not sure if i would give that up just yet.

[Swifto]

The BW shows nothing about how HPTA recovery went? No BW for endogenous T before cycle or after the cycle?

[marcus300]

The BW shows nothing about how HPTA recovery went? No BW for endogenous T before cycle or after the cycle?

quote from the report-

Minimal impact on HPTA and blood work – I found coming off this heavy cycle to be very easy. I had some elevated aggression to deal with but that was about it. For the several weeks following the last shot, here were no major swings in sex drive, general disposition remained positive and training remained focused and intense. PCT should be brief and painless.

[Swifto]

quote from the report-

Minimal impact on HPTA and blood work – I found coming off this heavy cycle to be very easy. I had some elevated aggression to deal with but that was about it. For the several weeks following the last shot, here were no major swings in sex drive, general disposition remained positive and training remained focused and intense. PCT should be brief and painless.

Very well. But its doesnt show actual numbers and they would have been very intresting.

[RA]

Im going to go out on a limb ross and say that the one who has much much much more experience (marcus) is the one to listen too. Your theories change faster then African dictators.

[Hackamaniac]

Im going to go out on a limb ross and say that the one who has much much much more experience (marcus) is the one to listen too. Your theories change faster then African dictators.

[MartyMcFly]

I should have known it was Ross.

what gear to use for the first time

[G-1000]

Yes it was Ross but it does not make him wrong.


He is not dum just an ass.

[evil pepsi]

hmmm, did i miss something? wasnt there a few posts from someone else in this thread?

[perfectbeast2001]

a guy who was banned made some posts and they got removed.

[evil pepsi]

ahhh, ok, that answers my next question then, hehe. was about to ask who/what ross was.
i tried to follow the links posted to see what was up and it just created a really big blonde moment for me, hehe...

[marcus300]

What a shame Ross i would of loved a debate with you and prove you wrong,

[BG]

Was there bf% measurement before and after. Seems like his BF went up CONSIDERABLY.

[marcus300]

Was there bf% measurement before and after. Seems like his BF went up CONSIDERABLY.

Your bf would go up slightly while bulking but this is due to the amount of food your put in while the growth window is open, timing is everything but as you do more and more of these cycles you get to know when to pull back and reduce the bf, check out the photos he didnt put that much on at all and he reported that after he came off the heavy dose of T, vascularity became evident again.

If BB's are still gaining with the way they cycle and have little sides keep with it but if muscle tissue is getting harder and harder to build try this system is really works, to many report good quality gains with little sides to say it doesnt,

[scriptfactory]

Was there bf% measurement before and after. Seems like his BF went up CONSIDERABLY.

Bump on this. It's hard to tell from those small pics but just judging from his abs it looked like his BF% increased quite a bit.

[Swifto]

What a shame Ross i would of loved a debate with you and prove you wrong,

Whats your response to his posts?

He talked about changes in liver, kidney, heart etc...

You ever seen or witnessed these changes? Does blood pressure become an issue when using these massive dosed cycles?

Liver problems or values increased?

Do you get BW done before and after cycling? Test, Free Test etc..?

Have you BW done to prove these short burst are minimally suppressive? If so, numbers?

[marcus300]

Whats your response to his posts?

He talked about changes in liver, kidney, heart etc...

You ever seen or witnessed these changes? Does blood pressure become an issue when using these massive dosed cycles?

Liver problems or values increased?

Do you get BW done before and after cycling? Test, Free Test etc..?

Have you BW done to prove these short burst are minimally suppressive? If so, numbers?

Well you really think Ross needs a response?? come on the man is a fool, this theory is tried and tested so many times even with the pro's, like ive said in previous post if you still gaining thats fine but this is worth a try when you stopp or slow down building muscle,

If everyone is honest with themselves just how much muscle tissue are you left with after a normal cycle and pct?? this system opens a growth spurt and its build fast and it stays, bloodwork in some is harsh the ones who use tren high dose but the rest have more or less all come back good nothing more than normal cycling gives,

blood pressure is a problem with some but if you know how to combatt it there are no more problems than normal cycles,

People should be honest with themsleves this system knocks the hell out of long cycles for growth and maintance of muscle tissue, this is just 1 study ive got loads more,

its worth a try if you are not gaining or slowed down, this jumpstarts your body into growth,

[Random]

Marcus300:

I used a longer cycle method this year to do a test run with primo, and while it worked well, im sure it will work better in burst cycle fashion...

due to lack of cycle experience i prolonged the burst cycle in an effort to get a better judge of which compounds suit me best...later on im sure Burst cycles will have their place....who knows, maybe after my 2007 show ill include some primo ace in a Rebound Burst...?

thanks for the help and advice Marcus

CD

[Warrior]

Gentleman, I just want to qualify Marcus real quick. He has nothing to gain by soliciting this information - he is offering it to you based on his personal feedback - as well as those who he have offered him theirs... in real life and on the Internet. Marcus, as well as myself and several other members on this board, are information farmers... we dig, we offer, we provide, we apply... we seek to cultivate as much info we can in a lifestyle that the mainstream has come to abandon...

Bodybuilding is about building your musculature - period. If you want the safest way to do this - than I would suggest not using AAS at all. Many successful bodybuilders have goals that lie in a cross section betweeen maximizing gains over the 12 month calendar year, as well as staying healthy from the inside. If you are trying to rise to the top of the competition scene - you may choose to live with potential internal side effects (or use concurrent medication to combat any rising issues) to favor more gains in the training year. But thats were your comfort zone is in the whole benefit:risk ratio thing...

Me? I just want to build muscle, safely and effectively, without putting my health at risk. And keep my wife's support. I have pretty average genetics - just a lot of research, application and consitency... and learning... if Thomas Edison never looked outsde the box - you'd all be training by candlelight. I called Marcus reckless and thought the idea was ludicrous, but I dug deep and got the motivation to research it further - and then apply it. Now, I think I am qualified to critique it a little better.

If you are looking for the most effective and way to employ these little anabolic hormones without too much negative feedback... staying on for months on end probably isn't the best route. So, would staying on for 4 weeks be bad? Prolly not. But what about increasing the steroid burden for this short period? The blood work the Marcus posted is 3 weeks into administering 1,750mg per week of testosterone per week (with a heavy frontload to get blood levels up quickly)... and I think the blood work results were very favorable, considering. I challenge any of you to run a longer cycle (with a lower androgen burden) and try and mimick the same blood chemistry at the end of your cycle.

So is it effective? It was for me. And I had little side effects, good blood chemistry, basically no acne, ... water retention was combatable with OTC herbal diuretics... and - quality gains! I was maintaining 228 prior to starting the prime. Today, several weeks after finishing this, I am maintaining 250 - but starting to increase my cardio and move into a cutting phase. I was depleted on a CKD diet before starting the cycle portion - so that explains a lot of the initial weight increase... when I gained like 20 pounds in 6 days. But the facts are - I started at a maintenance weight of 228 and in the end, I am probably the same bodyfat but now 250. My strength has maintained post cycle and I have no indicators that I have been hypogonadal at all... sex drive is good, training motivation is high.... and my only PCT was 100mg of Clomid for 5 days... I have also been using 50mg of Proviron for good measure...

I will continue to use this method after cutting, or priming to a low bodyfat. It works well and I don't see going on for 3 months as necessary anymore. Lower doses for longer than 4-5 weeks would still serve benefit in helping a cutting routine, but for gaining mass... a prime and then short and heavy cycle seems to be very effective - and reasonably safe.

I'm sold. Any of you guinea piggers out there want to try this - post your feedback or send it to Marcus. We can all learn from each other. But IMHO, you should have several cycles under you weight belt - as well as several years of hard, successful training...

Starting the prime at 228........... hit 220 depleted...........ended up with 250 solid.

Bodyfat was lower after the prime - but returned to the orginal level after the cycle...
same bodyweight, yet 22 pounds heavier - as well as much stronger lifts...
and greater cardio capacity, greater grip strength...

Peace...

[marcus300]

Gentleman, I just want to qualify Marcus real quick. He has nothing to gain by soliciting this information - he is offering it to you based on his personal feedback - as well as those who he have offered him theirs... in real life and on the Internet. Marcus, as well as myself and several other members on this board, are information farmers... we dig, we offer, we provide, we apply... we seek to cultivate as much info we can in a lifestyle that the mainstream has come to abandon...

Bodybuilding is about building your musculature - period. If you want the safest way to do this - than I would suggest not using AAS at all. Many successful bodybuilders have goals that lie in a cross section betweeen maximizing gains over the 12 month calendar year, as well as staying healthy from the inside. If you are trying to rise to the top of the competition scene - you may choose to live with potential internal side effects (or use concurrent medication to combat any rising issues) to favor more gains in the training year. But thats were your comfort zone is in the whole benefit:risk ratio thing...

Me? I just want to build muscle, safely and effectively, without putting my health at risk. And keep my wife's support. I have pretty average genetics - just a lot of research, application and consitency... and learning... if Thomas Edison never looked outsde the box - you'd all be training by candlelight. I called Marcus reckless and thought the idea was ludicrous, but I dug deep and got the motivation to research it further - and then apply it. Now, I think I am qualified to critique it a little better.

If you are looking for the most effective and way to employ these little anabolic hormones without too much negative feedback... staying on for months on end probably isn't the best route. So, would staying on for 4 weeks be bad? Prolly not. But what about increasing the steroid burden for this short period? The blood work the Marcus posted is 3 weeks into administering 1,750mg per week of testosterone per week (with a heavy frontload to get blood levels up quickly)... and I think the blood work results were very favorable, considering. I challenge any of you to run a longer cycle (with a lower androgen burden) and try and mimick the same blood chemistry at the end of your cycle.

So is it effective? It was for me. And I had little side effects, good blood chemistry, basically no acne, ... water retention was combatable with OTC herbal diuretics... and - quality gains! I was maintaining 228 prior to starting the prime. Today, several weeks after finishing this, I am maintaining 250 - but starting to increase my cardio and move into a cutting phase. I was depleted on a CKD diet before starting the cycle portion - so that explains a lot of the initial weight increase... when I gained like 20 pounds in 6 days. But the facts are - I started at a maintenance weight of 228 and in the end, I am probably the same bodyfat but now 250. My strength has maintained post cycle and I have no indicators that I have been hypogonadal at all... sex drive is good, training motivation is high.... and my only PCT was 100mg of Clomid for 5 days... I have also been using 50mg of Proviron for good measure...

I will continue to use this method after cutting, or priming to a low bodyfat. It works well and I don't see going on for 3 months as necessary anymore. Lower doses for longer than 4-5 weeks would still serve benefit in helping a cutting routine, but for gaining mass... a prime and then short and heavy cycle seems to be very effective - and reasonably safe.

I'm sold. Any of you guinea piggers out there want to try this - post your feedback or send it to Marcus. We can all learn from each other. But IMHO, you should have several cycles under you weight belt - as well as several years of hard, successful training...

Starting the prime at 228........... hit 220 depleted...........ended up with 250 solid.

Bodyfat was lower after the prime - but returned to the orginal level after the cycle...
same bodyweight, yet 22 pounds heavier - as well as much stronger lifts...
and greater cardio capacity, greater grip strength...

Peace...

What a reply Warrior Thankyou

If everybody is honest with themselves with how much muscle tissue they gain and hold several wks later after their long cycle this system produces more gains and is far more maintainable than most out there,

Its not just the cycle its everything Warrior mentioned the training,priming designing the cycle to suit, the whole aspect is to open the growth window and warrior as just shown what this can do, this guy is holding 250lbs several wks later that amazing in anyones standards,

Me and Warrior have had many debate regarding this whole process and i must admit at the begining he wasnt impressed at all but just read his report and reply now, he was educated enough to look further into it and try it, how can anyone comment without trying it, he did and the resuts speak for themselves,

If your not convinced stick with what works for you but remember when deca and dbol was the bread and butter of cycling and everyone shrugged off pct and other cycles.

Thankyou Warrior for the reply

[scriptfactory]

I will continue to use this method after cutting, or priming to a low bodyfat. It works well and I don't see going on for 3 months as necessary anymore. Lower doses for longer than 4-5 weeks would still serve benefit in helping a cutting routine, but for gaining mass... a prime and then short and heavy cycle seems to be very effective - and reasonably safe.

Sounds awesome, man! I think it was great that this worked for you.

I started to hold 250 at the end of the cycle and continue to hold it nearly 3 weeks since the last shot of TE.

Depending on your starting and ending BF% you gained around 19lbs of potential lean mass, which is awesome! The only problem I could see is that you will potentially drop more weight now that the Test E is (mostly) out of your system. Keep us updated as to how much you weigh after another couple weeks. Definitely interesting! Thanks for this!

[marcus300]

Sounds awesome, man! I think it was great that this worked for you.



Depending on your starting and ending BF% you gained around 19lbs of potential lean mass, which is awesome! The only problem I could see is that you will potentially drop more weight now that the Test E is (mostly) out of your system. Keep us updated as to how much you weigh after another couple weeks. Definitely interesting! Thanks for this!

several wks later still holding 250lbs which he stated in his last post

[scriptfactory]

several wks later still holding 250lbs which he stated in his last post

He's only been off for 3 weeks, I thought. Test E has an active life of around 16-19 days. He was still benefiting from it well into his third week. I wanted to know if it was still holding after like 5.

That reminds me. Wouldn't a shorter ester be MUCH better for a short cycle like this? Or no?

Edit: I was only talking about the potential weight loss because I know a couple guys that start losing weight more than a month off a high dose Test E cycle. They are competitive bodybuilders that run mainly Test E and perhaps one other compound for 3-4 months at a time when bulking.

[marcus300]

He's only been off for 3 weeks, I thought. Test E has an active life of around 16-19 days. He was still benefiting from it well into his third week. I wanted to know if it was still holding after like 5.

That reminds me. Wouldn't a shorter ester be MUCH better for a short cycle like this? Or no?

Today he is several wks finishing the cycle and still holding which is more or less what everybody reports, just 3-5lb loss then maintanance,

Warrior cycle is design for him and how he reacts and knowing his own body and cycle history, many do short esters with the same results, some do long esters for the first 15 days then swapped to short esters so its clear for the end,

Its all about knowing your own body and whats the best way for it to react in building muscle, warrior knew this and went with it, but yes short esters are good to go.

[scriptfactory]

Today he is several wks finishing the cycle and still holding which is more or less what everybody reports, just 3-5lb loss then maintanance,

Warrior cycle is design for him and how he reacts and knowing his own body and cycle history, many do short esters with the same results, some do long esters for the first 15 days then swapped to short esters so its clear for the end,

Its all about knowing your own body and whats the best way for it to react in building muscle, warrior knew this and went with it, but yes short esters are good to go.

Another question. Why is the weight loss for these short cycles much less than the normal weight lost after a longer (3-4 month) cycle. If you gain just as much and lose less why shouldn't EVERYONE run this kind of cycle, experienced or otherwise? It obviously shouldn't be ran by beginners but it sounds like it is potentially just as safe, gives just as much weight gain and less weight loss in a shorter period of time. Wouldn't a guy with a couple Test only cycles under his belt perform well with it?

[marcus300]

Another question. Why is the weight loss for these short cycles much less than the normal weight lost after a longer (3-4 month) cycle. If you gain just as much and lose less why shouldn't EVERYONE run this kind of cycle, experienced or otherwise? It obviously shouldn't be ran by beginners but it sounds like it is potentially just as safe, gives just as much weight gain and less weight loss in a shorter period of time. Wouldn't a guy with a couple Test only cycles under his belt perform well with it?

Reason why you hold more and build more is because you recover your own system fatser than you would for shutting it down for 4months, after a long cycle you may have built some good muscle but maintaining it is hard work becasue you cant recover fast so to hold the new muscle tissue, with short cycles you open the growth window for muscle tissue to gain quickly just like it does naturally we grow in spurts, when we prime we open this window and then you hit the system with short burst cycle and change the training to very intense training, you then have a growth spurt and it stops, no point in running longer cycles you wont gain anymore if that was true we would all be 500lbs+,

Many BB's run this system many pro's and lots of Europeans, heavy burst cycle are not for the beginner but something similar can be designed for them just the amount of gear is not needed but priming would be of great advantage and a standard short cycle

[Random]

Go Away Ross.