Shredded Vs jacked where to start

[Jonbana]

Currently recomping cause my last bulk went wrong...

Normally I cut down to 3-4%BF than slowly bulk and stay under 9%

does it make more sense maybe to bulk get some more size than cut to low levels or cut to low levels than bulk up ?

[Couchlock]

Currently recomping cause my last bulk went wrong...

Normally I cut down to 3-4%BF than slowly bulk and stay under 9%

does it make more sense maybe to bulk get some more size than cut to low levels or cut to low levels than bulk up ?

3 to 4%?

You'd be dead...

[Nephets]

Lol. Picks or bullshit.

[Back In Black]

Pics of 3% please. Of you in a hospital bed.

Seriously why do people always underestimate how fat they are? "Yeah, I'm about 12%", 'actually you aren't you are closer to 20% stop kidding yourself'

Makes people feel better about themselves I guess

[Jonbana]

I'd had many dexa and bodpod scans done and they all comfirmed I have no reason to lie or prove anything

I was just asking a question

[oldnsedentary]

Come on, anybody with body fat that low took some pictures. Post pics! I am not calling BS. I want to see what you looked like.

[tarmyg]

Never been at those levels myself so my advice is perhaps out of line. For maximum mass gain, it would seem to make sense to ignore fat gain for a while or you would be limiting your potential to gain lean mass.

[KINGKONG]

Clean bulk then cut..if you got the will power to get to near death bodyfat percentage it won't be a problem to drop the weight after a clean bulk,.ive never been below 10 percent so I don't know what that would be like ..I don't compete I bodybuild and strength train cause I love it and it relieves a lot of anxiety and the discipline keeps me outta trouble..

[Obs]

Clean bulk then cut..if you got the will power to get to near death bodyfat percentage it won't be a problem to drop the weight after a clean bulk,.ive never been below 10 percent so I don't know what that would be like ..I don't compete I bodybuild and strength train cause I love it and it relieves a lot of anxiety and the discipline keeps me outta trouble..

Its a full time job staying out of trouble. Its just so damn easy letting the beast run free and thats all it takes.

[Couchlock]

I'd had many dexa and bodpod scans done and they all comfirmed I have no reason to lie or prove anything

I was just asking a question

<img src="http://forums.steroid .com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166907"/>
<img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166908"/>

Ah your an Auschwitz graduate, huh. Lol
Jk

[Jonbana]

Just had bad experience with my last bulk , got bloated and wasn't fun ,

and when I was 3% BF I was natural 100%

My problem is I use to be fat so I cut cut cut got really lean tried to bulk and it went really wrong so now im cutting again but just seems like im wasting time up down up down ,

currently trying a recomp on dbol deca test , currently on a deficit and slowly increasing once im happy with my BF levels again , but don't think its possible to make gains while eating at a deficit so I need to figure out how to recomp correctly on this cycle

currently 16-8 fasting and carb backloading far from optimal specially while on cycle.. but I enjoy eating less meals but might have to throw in a breakfast and split up this fast maybe


as for low BF% picture I can post this one remember I went from 280 pounds to 150pounds in 7 months natural so I have some lose skin (this picture was at 6%Bf ) taken a while ago with my first 7 month transformation

[Jonbana]

I think my problem is im trying to stay lean or get lean I know what I want but I don't think its possible year round like a fitness model , they are all heavy on drugs and shit ,

so I think maybe im chasing something I can never reach , and im hurting myself everytime I cut cut cut cut

currently 14% BF on bodpod testing ,

I enjoy fasting and backloading and starving myself but its not working for gains obviously but I keep telling myself I can make fasting work other people do

[Cupid]

I can't give you too much advice on the cutting because I am still in process of perfecting it myself.....but what I can tell you for sure is that Bod Pod and DEXA are both total BS waste of money. Don't trust the results. I have done them, and had ridiculous range of results...I'm talking one reading at 12%....then when I was noticeably leaner a few weeks later I got a reading at 21%....next day I went to a different center which supposedly had brand new equipment....my reading was 17%....I went back 2 weeks later after losing 2 lbs and my reading was fucking 9%.
Again....total BS waste of money.

3% bodyfat is ridiculous. You would be dead.
At 4% bodyfat, the individual muscle fibers on your chest, delts, quads, and glutes would be visible and bulging even while under shitty lighting. Your veins would look like cobwebs all over your body - also under shitty lighting. Your face and neck would be so shriveled up that people will think you have end stage ALS....google "steve jobs last photo" to get an idea of what I am talking about.
Most Mr Olympia go on stage around 6% range.

[Back In Black]

Those results are flawed as stated. Less than 3% you would be dead. Besides there's no point having bodyfat that low with no muscle to show off imo.



I think this is fairly accurate for the lower bodyfat levels.

If you don't know what you want and you are all over the place with your dieting then you are wasting your cycles, like so many other people.

[--->>405<<---]

In my opinion, and from my experience, muscle building past newbie gains is a slow process. It takes years.

My biggest gains were made while cycling. Once I came off, 6 months later some of the gains left too.

I'm on TRT though and keep my test levels at the very top end of the range all the time so I can hang onto cycle gains longer and keep some of it.

Our bodies are only genetically able to hold so much muscle without drugs.

I've found getting lean and eating at maintenance or slightly over (like 200cals) to be best for me. I get stronger every year but the size doesn't come very fast unless I'm on 500mg + test per week.

If you're cutting natty down to single digit body fat you're losing a ton of LBM in my opinion. Cutting is when drugs do their best work from my experience.

[Mr.BB]

Bod pods can be off... Dexa scan doesnt leave much margin for error

[Back In Black]

I'd had many dexa and bodpod scans done and they all comfirmed I have no reason to lie or prove anything

I was just asking a question

Did you get 2 tests on the same day?

[Jonbana]

I can't give you too much advice on the cutting because I am still in process of perfecting it myself.....but what I can tell you for sure is that Bod Pod and DEXA are both total BS waste of money. Don't trust the results. I have done them, and had ridiculous range of results...I'm talking one reading at 12%....then when I was noticeably leaner a few weeks later I got a reading at 21%....next day I went to a different center which supposedly had brand new equipment....my reading was 17%....I went back 2 weeks later after losing 2 lbs and my reading was fucking 9%.
Again....total BS waste of money.

3% bodyfat is ridiculous. You would be dead.
At 4% bodyfat, the individual muscle fibers on your chest, delts, quads, and glutes would be visible and bulging even while under shitty lighting. Your veins would look like cobwebs all over your body - also under shitty lighting. Your face and neck would be so shriveled up that people will think you have end stage ALS....google "steve jobs last photo" to get an idea of what I am talking about.
Most Mr Olympia go on stage around 6% range.

Yes I agree with you I don't trust any bodpod or dexa that's why I dotn go around bragging , but remember I have lose skin and was keto in the picture so my muscles where flat with lose skin but yes I go by the mirror in that picture back than I say I sit around 8-9% BF

[Jonbana]

Did you get 2 tests on the same day?

I got 8 tests done using different methods the same day than came back again in a week

[Jonbana]

In my opinion, and from my experience, muscle building past newbie gains is a slow process. It takes years.

My biggest gains were made while cycling. Once I came off, 6 months later some of the gains left too.

I'm on TRT though and keep my test levels at the very top end of the range all the time so I can hang onto cycle gains longer and keep some of it.

Our bodies are only genetically able to hold so much muscle without drugs.

I've found getting lean and eating at maintenance or slightly over (like 200cals) to be best for me. I get stronger every year but the size doesn't come very fast unless I'm on 500mg + test per week.

If you're cutting natty down to single digit body fat you're losing a ton of LBM in my opinion. Cutting is when drugs do their best work from my experience.

that's why im currently cutting on this cycle than going to slowly increase to maintnace half way or near the end to hold . hopefully

I just see all these people walking around shredded and maybe its not possible to stay shredded like this year round everything is fake now of days and etc just sucks how we get brain washed ,

but my plan is to stay in this deficit slowly increase calories or not at all and come out same body weight but leaner , im not even hungry I 16/8 fast and im never hungry but know I should eat something ..

[Back In Black]

I got 8 tests done using different methods the same day than came back again in a week

Both those bod pod scans have the same date on them but differing results, that's all.

[KINGKONG]

that's why im currently cutting on this cycle than going to slowly increase to maintnace half way or near the end to hold . hopefully

I just see all these people walking around shredded and maybe its not possible to stay shredded like this year round everything is fake now of days and etc just sucks how we get brain washed ,

but my plan is to stay in this deficit slowly increase calories or not at all and come out same body weight but leaner , im not even hungry I 16/8 fast and im never hungry but know I should eat something ..

Genetics play a big part in everything you cannot try to live up to others looks or expectations..I just spent part of the morning watching some video's of some guy Bradley Martin or some such guy is built like a tank cut and strong buy gave no useful info in his vid's..they were entertaining but that's besides the point..the point is I then went to the gym looked at myself in the mirror and felt terrible about myself here's this guy eating like crap training like crap and he's nasty and I diet and pour my soul into my training..I have friends like that put in half the effort and get twice the results..you gotta just do the best you can do and be proud knowing you give it your all!!you look good man chill

[KINGKONG]

Bulk up,quit the fasting ,eat ,run a real bulk cycle and cut down to were you wanna be and maintain..recomps are getting you no were..you don't have to get fat bulking man..

[kelkel]

Bod pods can be off...

I did one once a few years ago. I had to laugh at the results. The two guys running the test did the same, said it was not even close. Last time I'll bother with one of them.

[Cupid]

that's why im currently cutting on this cycle than going to slowly increase to maintnace half way or near the end to hold . hopefully

I just see all these people walking around shredded and maybe its not possible to stay shredded like this year round everything is fake now of days and etc just sucks how we get brain washed ,

but my plan is to stay in this deficit slowly increase calories or not at all and come out same body weight but leaner , im not even hungry I 16/8 fast and im never hungry but know I should eat something ..

I may be wrong in my advice here, if so, someone please correct me.....but,

I like you have struggled with this issue for a while.
And the realization I have came to recently (which I already knew, I just had not swallowed it yet) is that "bulking", especially after a long and hard cut, is not a license to eat whatever the fuck you want, or for that matter to go 1000 calories over maintenance, even clean - this will just put on fat again.

To begin with, most people severely over estimate their TDEE and as such they also overestimate the amount of calories needed to maintain and/or bulk.
Remember that TDEE is a function of LEAN body mass.
When you consider your BMR and the additional energy expenditure of working out and just moving about around the day, picking up your kids, putting the trash out, brushing your teeth, wiping your ass etc....all of them are based on your LBM.
When your LBM is so low due to such a severe cut, obviously your TDEE is gonna be low too.
Anything above 500-750 over TDEE is gonna get stored as fat.

Then, you also need to take into account the fact that your metabolism is naturally slower due to long cut. Your thyroid output and leptin levels will be in the toilet.

So then you jump from a major cut immediately into a bulk. You feel relieved that you don't need to eat like a mouse anymore...because its time to build some fucking muscle, and you start to lift heavy again, load up on carbs and all.
You probably way overestimate your TDEE, and then decide to go 1000 over it to ensure you put on some serious mass (or worse yet start eating whatever you want and don't actually calculate anything).

You combine the above mentality with a lowered metabolism and the result is ---- get fat again, feel like shit....and then the real kicker, started binging on shitty food because you feel like shit.

Maybe what I described above is not even remotely what happened to you. I am only assuming this based on limited info from you and because this is what has happened to me, several times. (IDK why i keep making the same mistake). If this is not representative of your experience, please correct me. If this is, well then you know your problem.

I think the solution is to slowly increase the calories back up after a long cut....both for the purpose of physiological adaptation as well as mental adaptation. It has long been known that the consequences of yo-yo dieting are a result of having the mentality of a "diet" being a short term goal.....once the goal is achieved....now what? Hmmm....hagen daaz sounds good.

Well I think that people on this forum and those generally into bodybuilding do something like that, but in a slightly less shitty way....and it also stems from this cut/bulk mentality and the drastically huge range between them.


I know how you feel, I have friends that eat like shit, don't train as hard or as efficient as me, have never tracked macros in their life and they are still lean as fuck. Initially this pissed me off to no end. Until I looked a little deeper into it.
Take my room mate for example, he is exactly as I described above.
When he comes home from grocery shopping, generally he bought stuff along the lines of - pop tarts, gushers, fruit roll ups, hot chocolate, big jars of trail mix etc.
He never gets fat.
Before living with him, I would see the kind of food he eats, and it would blow my mind how he wasn't gaining fat.
After living with him, I noticed that yes he eats shitty....but he eats less often and also in smaller proportions. Maybe he will have one massive meal a day where he goes to chipotle and loads that burrito with guac and sour cream and triple meat and everything in between....but then the rest of the day he might have 2 fruit roll ups and a couple sushi rolls.
Prior to living with him, I would see him eating that massive burrito and think that he like me eats ever 3-4 hours and has this 5 times a day.
In addition.....the motherfucker DOES NOT SIT DOWN. He is always moving around like an energizer bunny. It's hard to get him to stand still in one place. He does pull ups every few hours just for the hell of it.
AND, he is a go-go dancer at a night club, so every other night he is dancing around lightly for a few hours.

So couple the fact that his energy expenditure is through the roof, and his overall caloric intake is not necessarily that high (even though its from really shitty sources), well OBVIOUSLY he is not going to get fat......the downside to this is that he is seriously compromising how much muscle he can and should be putting on. The only reason he has as much muscle as he does, which I found out recently, is because he runs Tren a couple times a year.

Now, if you were to ask him about his diet/workout etc - He would say something like "ya bro I eat whatever the fuck I want and I stay lean". - This is his perception, and people like us believe him because we are going based off seeing him during one meal every once in a while.....WE HAVE NO IDEA HOW THEY EAT/LIVE OR HOW ACTIVE THEY ARE on a normal basis because we are not following them around 24/7.
Then these same dumbfucks go on youtube/social media and spew out the same garbage and lead people to the general consensus that those people probably just won the genetic lottery and I am unlucky.
I believe that genetics plays a 10% role, the rest is consistent lifestyle.

I hope this answers your question.
Sorry for the long rant.