05-04-2005, 07:27 PM #1
Compound verses isolation for mass
If my goal is to gain mass for right now, is there any sense in doing any isolation movements? They seem like they would be a waste for a mass building workout.
I just changed my routine recently and have some isolation excersises for arms and shoulders and wonder if I should pull them out for now and just do all compound excersises until I get to the size I want to.
05-04-2005, 07:29 PM #2
isolation movements COMPLIMENT compound movements.
05-04-2005, 07:47 PM #3Originally Posted by colossus1
05-04-2005, 07:52 PM #4Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD
I think of it like this...........
With compound movements you arent really going for high reps (10-12) for the most part. So hypertrophy isnt going to be awesome, this is where isolation movements come into play. Compound movements support the release of hormones and isolation movements allow proper stimuli that you cant necessarily get out of compound movements.
05-04-2005, 07:58 PM #5Originally Posted by colossus1
05-04-2005, 08:06 PM #6Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD
I didnt say compound movements arent responsible for most of your growth. You need to go back and read my posts. What im trying to get across is.....
If you us deadlifts as a back exercise..........how the hell do you isolate individual back muscles after? By isolation movements of course. And you dont "carve" muscles my friend. They stay the same shape....only get smaller or bigger.
05-04-2005, 08:16 PM #7Originally Posted by colossus1
and yes carve wasnt the best word to describe "isolation movements" but to help bring out lagging areas in a muscle would be a better description.
05-04-2005, 08:20 PM #8Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD
And isolation does not mean "one joint movement".it means the isolation of a particular muscle and doing an movemnt that does such.
Lat pulldowns is an isolation movement, single dumbell rows, shrugs, good mornings etc...
Compound movements for back...bent over barbell rows, deadlift, chins etc...
05-04-2005, 08:22 PM #9
Compound movements support the release of hormones and isolation movements allow proper stimuli that you cant necessarily get out of compound movements (you say right here!) ".
you said that compound exercises arent done in the "hypertrophy range"and i dont understand why they couldnt be, and that hypertrophy will not be awesome with compound exercises, and "isolation exercises" allow for proper stimuli that you can get out of compound exercises!
05-04-2005, 08:25 PM #10Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD
Fine. You go and do deadlifts using 10-15 rep range and ill go 5-8 rep range. You do bent over rows in the 10-15 rep range and ill go 5-8 and we'll see who gets bigger....lol. I didnt say you cant use compound movements for hypertrophy.......you can if you like. And yes...sometimes it can be more beneficial.
Use some common sense when you read my posts please............
05-05-2005, 12:03 PM #11
What's with these ridiculous arguments?
05-05-2005, 12:05 PM #12Originally Posted by Narkissos
05-05-2005, 12:15 PM #13
lol...it's cool in the lounge but outside it's a
05-05-2005, 12:23 PM #14Originally Posted by Narkissos
05-05-2005, 12:25 PM #15
alot of growth from my experience has been using both... see I find that the all you need to break past the barrier into new growth is through more stimulation be it one more rep, one more set, more weight etc, sometimes you get stale at something and one more of whatever is not possible thats where these two different principales come into compliment each other.
Yes squats build more mass because more fibers (from other groups) come into play, Isolation can be just as intense if not more and stimluate just as much if not MORE per muscle group.
and YES you can "carve" a muscle group...like doing hammer curls all your life is not going to give you quite the peak that concerntration curls will, nence carving.. .directing a muscle where to go and how it will look.
05-05-2005, 12:54 PM #16
i use only compound movements in the 5-8 rep range. i find it best for mass, and find isolation a waste of time. go heavy or dont bother.
05-05-2005, 01:41 PM #17Originally Posted by Billy_Bathgate
helluva a scrapper that dude in your avatar there man, I guess you saw that video huh?
05-05-2005, 02:03 PM #18Originally Posted by Billy_Bathgate
05-05-2005, 02:13 PM #19
Compound for mass, isolation for shape. No point in watching yourself do one arm reverse cable pulldowns if you do not have some mass on your arm IMO.
I think that part of the argument above was caused by a difference in semantics.
Compound: Any excersize that involves one or more muscle group or joint.
Isolation: Any excersize that involves only the muslce being trained, no joints.
That said, I think you CAN perform an excersize like Bent-over Barbell Rows with a lighter weight and really focus and "isolate" the muscle. That said, I would not call these isolation movements. Nor would I call a wide grip chin and isolation movement...I do not think there are many (if any) back isolation movements, maybe pullovers.
05-05-2005, 02:38 PM #20Originally Posted by Billy_Bathgate
How many PL lifters do you see that do not weigh 160 pounds yet still manage to lift a crap load of weight? Do they look massive? Hell no. The size of a muscle dosen't denote strength. Same goes for the BB'ers that have massive muscles, I know plenty of guys larger than me yet they never lift heavy....that's not what they are after, to them it's all about size, period.
You want strength with some muscle size gains then go the PL route.....you want more muscles than what PL lifts will give then you need to do some hytrophy training, you just won't gain lots of strength from it. You have to decide what your goal is: do you want to be strong or do you want mass?
Of course you can have the best of both worlds if you alternate throughout the year PL routines and hytrophy routines. Which is what I like to do.
05-05-2005, 02:48 PM #21Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD
Leg extetions: load on enough weight that you can do 10 clean reps. Once you get to number 10, and with the help of a partner go for another eight. He's not allowed to lift the weight, he's only to keep you moving. When you get into a static hold state and can't move the weight he's not allowed to offer assistance until he sees you sliding backward...not before that. When you finish the 8th rep reduce the weight by 30% and do another 8 reps...after that 8th rep reduce the weight another 30% and bang out another 8.
Do two sets like that then go do squats....and only do two sets of sqauts but try and force out three to four extra reps...yes you'll have to lighten up the weight. Your legs will be so pumped you think you have tree trunks......for three days after.
05-05-2005, 03:16 PM #22Anabolic Member
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To answer your original the answer is compound for mass. However, having said that does not mean that isolation is useless .
05-05-2005, 03:16 PM #23
Ive trained with that philosphy for over 5 years. In that time I have put on over 100lbs. Less than 10-20% of that time has involved gear. This is coming from someone would have sworn up and down till he was blue in the face that he was a "hardgainer"
Yet when i started, i was the guy doing lots of cable crossovers, flies, isolation curls, etc.
I wouldnt at all call it a PL routine, as Ive done that too and its still night and day.
05-05-2005, 03:41 PM #24
I follow what you're saying Billy......I don't mess with cable crossovers, flies, isolation curls, etc myself.
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