Drop in HDL due to arimidex, Any alternative?

[belva]

5 years in to my competitive bodybuilding Journey and my good cholesterol HDL has never been higher than 36mg/dl. Normally fluctuating between 13 mg/dl to 26mg/dl.

Based on my bloodwork, average every 4 months, I know its the arimidex that drop it down, I tried novadex but still the results stays around 25 mg/dl. I tried not to use ancillary (the cholesterol problem is solved, HDL 44-49mg/dl )but the 17-estradiol rise so much that it screw with brain and I cant cope with that.

My total cholesterol is not hight around 160mg/dl normally, LDL 130mg/dl triglycerides 60 to 80 mg/dl

so normally my T col/HDL is around 7

I have always used Extra Virgin olive oil (I'm italian, I make it), Avocado, nuts (Fat consumption around 100g a day) with 5g of EPA/DHA a day.

DOES anyone knows any way out there to use any ancilliary that can allow my good colesterol HDL to stay higher?

Thank you for taking the time to read it and advise.

[belva]

I forgot to mention the dose of arimidex I am taking variate from is 0,5 mg E3D in off season on a basic test cyp 400*w to 1mg EOD on a pre contest cycle of test/tren /mas and Winstrol .

Still on 0,5 mg E3D or even E4D my good HDL still down betwwen 13mg/dl to 25mg/dl.

[beanpo1e]

High dose Niacin can substantially raise HDL cholesterol. The protocol I saw said take 1.5g three times per day. It causes you to flush red and heat up when you first take it, but over time you tolerate it better.

[Test Monsterone]

I have also heard something about the niacin, but I heard that it takes months to see results.

I would suggest some oats with each meal, as they tend to absorb fats in the digestive system.

Also, cardio seems to help HDL a bit, according to some doctors.

[kelkel]

Certain Niacin's like the guys mentioned above. I use either Slo-Niacin or Endur-Acin. Lately I prefer the latter which I'll take at least twice daily with lunch and at bedtime. It will help.

[JohnnyBreeze]

Certain Niacin's like the guys mentioned above. I use either Slo-Niacin or Endur-Acin. Lately I prefer the latter which I'll take at least twice daily with lunch and at bedtime. It will help.

I don’t want to hijack this thread, but the study I’ve read (and I’ve only read one) specifically says not to use “long acting forms of niacin”. Since I know there are always conflicting studies, and I have been wanting to start Niacin for my LDL (low normal) and triglycerides, I have three questions.

1. How much improvement have you seen using the long acting forms that you take (in LDL, HDL, or Triglycerides)?

2. What is the total dose (mg) for the day that you take?

3. Have you run into any side effects other than flushing? I’ve been reading about some that are pretty serious, such as worsening blood sugar or insulin resistance to the point of type 2 diabetes.

Thanks.

[AR's King Silabolin]

5 years in to my competitive bodybuilding Journey and my good cholesterol HDL has never been higher than 36mg/dl. Normally fluctuating between 13 mg/dl to 26mg/dl.

Based on my bloodwork, average every 4 months, I know its the arimidex that drop it down, I tried novadex but still the results stays around 25 mg/dl. I tried not to use ancillary (the cholesterol problem is solved, HDL 44-49mg/dl )but the 17-estradiol rise so much that it screw with brain and I cant cope with that.

My total cholesterol is not hight around 160mg/dl normally, LDL 130mg/dl triglycerides 60 to 80 mg/dl

so normally my T col/HDL is around 7

I have always used Extra Virgin olive oil (I'm italian, I make it), Avocado, nuts (Fat consumption around 100g a day) with 5g of EPA/DHA a day.

DOES anyone knows any way out there to use any ancilliary that can allow my good colesterol HDL to stay higher?

Thank you for taking the time to read it and advise.

There is no such thing as good and bad cholestrol.

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[Mr. Small]

There is no such thing as good and bad cholestrol.

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Huh? Bad cholesterol clogs your veins

[DustMan]

LDL (specifically VLDL or any form less than 70nm) is the primary causal factor in the development of CVD. HDL doesn't pass through the endothelial barrier and participate in CVD, it helps to transport cholesterol back to the liver and lowers total LDL levels.

Too much LDL, and more specifically VLDL, LDL fragments, and small electronegative LDL are the driving forces of CVD. If you don't control your LDL you're rolling the dice on having godlike genetics, because if you don't.... you're gonna end up with CVD.

Here's some really long but interesting reading on LDL and CVD: https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/a...4/2313/5735221

Belva, have you looked into PCSK9 inhibitors or Bile Acid Resins? PCSK9's are the new statin.... so far they look to have way less side effects than statins and are highly tolerable. They might have long term negative effects that we haven't seen yet, but so far so good, really expensive right now though and not covered by many medical plans.

Bile acid resins on the other hand have 0 systematic side effects, ask your Doctor about them, I'm trying to find where I can buy some here in Germany at the moment without a prescription. They lower LDL and raise HDL, only problem is you can't take them around food / other supplements because they will bind to them and waste them.

Edited in: LDL and HDL are both really important in determining your risk of further CVD development, but there are lots of things you can do which can slow and even reverse CVD, I'll list a couple of them here for you.

Omega3: Supplementation reduces sterile inflammation of the arterial wall preventing further development of CVD. Supplementation leads to reduced triglyceride and c reactive protein levels. Very important.

CoQ10: Promotes NO dependent vasodialation and protects LDL from oxidization(LDL is the primary carrier of Ubiquinol, the good version of CoQ10). Oxidized LDL merges with the arterial wall and begins the process of necrosis, eventually leading to a thrombus, and becoming a clot.

Vitamin K2: Reduces arterial calcification and increases vascular flexibility, reducing rate of cardio vascular incidence.

[kelkel]

I don’t want to hijack this thread, but the study I’ve read (and I’ve only read one) specifically says not to use “long acting forms of niacin”. Since I know there are always conflicting studies, and I have been wanting to start Niacin for my LDL (low normal) and triglycerides, I have three questions.

1. How much improvement have you seen using the long acting forms that you take (in LDL, HDL, or Triglycerides)?

2. What is the total dose (mg) for the day that you take?

3. Have you run into any side effects other than flushing? I’ve been reading about some that are pretty serious, such as worsening blood sugar or insulin resistance to the point of type 2 diabetes.

Thanks.

https://forums.steroid.com/hormone-r...xperiment.html

[AR's King Silabolin]

Huh? Bad cholesterol clogs your veins

Nope. We all have lots of ldl. If it was bad, there would be clogs all over. But it isnt so.
Too much water, doesnt sink your boat.

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[AR's King Silabolin]

LDL (specifically VLDL or any form less than 70nm) is the primary causal factor in the development of CVD. HDL doesn't pass through the endothelial barrier and participate in CVD, it helps to transport cholesterol back to the liver and lowers total LDL levels.

Too much LDL, and more specifically VLDL, LDL fragments, and small electronegative LDL are the driving forces of CVD. If you don't control your LDL you're rolling the dice on having godlike genetics, because if you don't.... you're gonna end up with CVD.

Here's some really long but interesting reading on LDL and CVD: https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/a...4/2313/5735221

Belva, have you looked into PCSK9 inhibitors or Bile Acid Resins? PCSK9's are the new statin.... so far they look to have way less side effects than statins and are highly tolerable. They might have long term negative effects that we haven't seen yet, but so far so good, really expensive right now though and not covered by many medical plans.

Bile acid resins on the other hand have 0 systematic side effects, ask your Doctor about them, I'm trying to find where I can buy some here in Germany at the moment without a prescription. They lower LDL and raise HDL, only problem is you can't take them around food / other supplements because they will bind to them and waste them.

Edited in: LDL and HDL are both really important in determining your risk of further CVD development, but there are lots of things you can do which can slow and even reverse CVD, I'll list a couple of them here for you.

Omega3: Supplementation reduces sterile inflammation of the arterial wall preventing further development of CVD. Supplementation leads to reduced triglyceride and c reactive protein levels. Very important.

CoQ10: Promotes NO dependent vasodialation and protects LDL from oxidization(LDL is the primary carrier of Ubiquinol, the good version of CoQ10). Oxidized LDL merges with the arterial wall and begins the process of necrosis, eventually leading to a thrombus, and becoming a clot.

Vitamin K2: Reduces arterial calcification and increases vascular flexibility, reducing rate of cardio vascular incidence.

Totally wrong. Best jap scientists, say those with high ldl, live longer.
So do the best denish experts. And others who are not from the same mainstream old school.
Yeah many who die, have high ldl. But the things which caused high ldl also killed them.
High BP f. i. When high BP causes damage to the veins, cracks are filled with cholesterol and other things making bulps. Thats rigth.
But cholestrol would also contribute to these bulps, even if the amount of cholestrol was textbook to begin with.

If your cup has a crack in the bottom . It will fill first, then the cup itself, when u put water in it.
The crack would fill, no matter how much water u got . 1 dl. 10 dl. Doesnt mean shit.

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[DustMan]

Totally wrong. Best jap scientists, say those with high ldl, live longer.
So do the best denish experts. And others who are not from the same mainstream old school.
Yeah many who die, have high ldl. But the things which caused high ldl also killed them.
High BP f. i. When high BP causes damage to the veins, cracks are filled with cholesterol and other things making bulps. Thats rigth.
But cholestrol would also contribute to these bulps, even if the amount of cholestrol was textbook to begin with.

If your cup has a crack in the bottom . It will fill first, then the cup itself, when u put water in it.
The crack would fill, no matter how much water u got . 1 dl. 10 dl. Doesnt mean shit.

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Looks like the scientific community disagrees with the claims of the experts who performed the narrative summary you are alluding to:
https://www.nhs.uk/news/heart-and-lu...heart-disease/

I read the study before I went looking for how the scientific community feels about it and I was very unimpressed with it, they don't account for any additional variables like medication(statins) or dietary/lifestyle interventions. Here is the original study: https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/6/e010401.full

High blood pressure is a major concern with CVD, but LDL(specifically smaller LDL) can pass through the endothelial barrier without it being damaged. I'm not going to roll the dice on a blood clot.

[belva]

I've not looked at PCSK9 and yes I am taking oats, Omega 3 5 g EPA/DHA A day, Gla 300mg, Ubiquinol 200mg day, and K vitamin.

so far I am trying something suggested to me by Stan efferdine, which is shooting test more often, same weekly dose. will do blood work by the end of the month and keep you updated

[DustMan]

I've not looked at PCSK9 and yes I am taking oats, Omega 3 5 g EPA/DHA A day, Gla 300mg, Ubiquinol 200mg day, and K vitamin.

so far I am trying something suggested to me by Stan efferdine, which is shooting test more often, same weekly dose. will do blood work by the end of the month and keep you updated

I actually added in Rutin recently thanks to a suggestion from Kelkel. I haven't changed much about my supplements since starting TRT other than the Rutin, however my 8 week bloodwork came back better than my pre TRT bloodwork in terms of cholesteral. I can't say FOR SURE it was the Rutin.... but my Doctor and I are both pretty confused how this is possible, and the only change I can think of is the Rutin.