How to avoid insulin's permanent side-effects!!

**bogdan84uzy** · 08-27-2008, 03:11 AM

Hy!i have read some many exemples about how to use insulin right without going hipoglicemic and die..but i have never heard about anywhone who was telling about the permanent side-effects of insulin and how to avoid them...i am talking about the permanent increase on blood pressure or the permanent shut down of insulin's production...
I know when you use a exogenous hormone,your's body will stop it's endogenous production of that hormone..with test you can bring back your's levels back with hcg &clomid...but with insulin???and i know that insulin that you must use it is a fast acting one...but still...if you use test suspension,which it is the fastest acting test...still you will need some agressive pct...how about insulin?????

PT · 08-27-2008, 03:32 AM

thats why we usually do 4 weeks on 2-4 weeks off. of course slin is dangerous but if you use it safely you will see great gains and no permanant damage to you pancreas or anything else

**bogdan84uzy** · 08-27-2008, 03:36 AM

I understand..but the way you are telling me it is something like no problem you use test 4weeks and after if you will stop it for 2-4weeks you will be fine...still it will be a crash in your's sistem..i have asnwered how can you avoid that?

**Gear** · 08-27-2008, 04:16 AM

There are no clinical studies carried out which state insulin use can lead to dependancy or any other major side effects as such. Having said this, it doesn't mean you can cycle insulin for as long as you want without a break because we simply do not know the potential dangers we could run into in the future.

The reason why the 4 week ON/OFF protocol is recomended is because that way of using insulin has been proven to work very well delivering maximum benefits and minimum side effects. It's not a 100% safe way of using insulin, but it is believed it's one of the better ways of using insulin since it has been put to the test so many times by so many users.

Testosterone and insulin is like black and white, two totally different things with different duties.

Be advised that everyone reacts differently, so if something works well for me it doesn't necessaraly mean it will work well for you, but still it would be wise to follow the safest pattern available meaning follow the protocol which has worked well for most.

-Gear

**bogdan84uzy** · 08-27-2008, 04:20 AM

Yes..but you don't have to use something like actos?to stimulating again the production of insuLin ?

**Gear** · 08-27-2008, 04:22 AM

Actos is for people who have type II diabetes, and I can see where you're going with that but it is not necessary.

-Gear

**bogdan84uzy** · 08-27-2008, 04:53 AM

i understand..i see the best way to use it,it is on PCT...4weeks..as an anabolic /anticatabolic agent

**gr8TEST1** · 08-31-2008, 10:05 PM

i always thought that insulin shud be used post wo/during a bulking cycle, and igf-1 shud be used during pct, not slin..since igf-1 wud cut u up more..

**Gear** · 09-01-2008, 12:24 AM

Insulin and IGF are both beneficial throughout cycle and PCT, and they can both be taken PWO.

-Gear

**bogdan84uzy** · 09-06-2008, 09:46 AM

i have get in contact with a guy from russia-a profesional trainer he says...Alexandr Miroshnikov ..and he told me that-"proffesiomal sportsmen also use 40 till 100 Unit of insulin . When I prepered for championship, for myself I used 60 UI of insulin."!!!
i think this it is absurd!!can't be possible..40ui maybe,but 100??

**bogdan84uzy** · 09-06-2008, 09:52 AM

he says that even the sprinter use 20-40ui of insulin ...TELL ME YOUR'S OPINIONS ABOUT THAT...

**unoigo** · 09-06-2008, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by bogdan84uzy

he says that even the sprinter use 20-40ui of insulin...TELL ME YOUR'S OPINIONS ABOUT THAT...

All in one dose, I think not, over a course of a day, yes it's possible. I've see protocols that call for 30iu over the course of a day.

However, for 99.9% of the people on this board, that much is totally unnecessary and quite dangerous.

**bogdan84uzy** · 09-06-2008, 11:28 AM

read what i have post before,20-40ui he says for sprinters...for bodybuilding-till 100 ui....how much HGH you must inject then on those kind of megadoses of insulin ?WHAT CORELATIONS & LINKS ARE BETWEEN THE DOSES OF INSULIN AND HGH ONE??

**binder** · 09-06-2008, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by gr8TEST1

i always thought that insulin shud be used post wo/during a bulking cycle, and igf-1 shud be used during pct, not slin..since igf-1 wud cut u up more..

SHOULD
WOULD

wtf is wrong with the youth. this better be a mobile post.

**Gear** · 09-06-2008, 01:41 PM

Wether you are a bodybuilder or a track and field athelete, there is no need to take anymore than 10IU of insulin p/day, and the best time to take it would be immidietly after training.

-Gear

**jg42058p** · 09-06-2008, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by bogdan84uzy

read what i have post before,20-40ui he says for sprinters...for bodybuilding-till 100 ui....how much HGH you must inject then on those kind of megadoses of insulin?WHAT CORELATIONS & LINKS ARE BETWEEN THE DOSES OF INSULIN AND HGH ONE??

maybe you meant 2-4iu's and 10iu's as a max?

20-40iu's of insulin could kill you

the stuff is too dangerous and theres too much risk of fat gain.

The benefits really aren't worth the risk IMO

**bogdan84uzy** · 09-07-2008, 04:17 AM

yes i don't understand how can anybody can pretend that he use such HUGE doses...100ui of insulin -think only how much carbo you need for this dose!!!1000carbo or the lowest-700carbo????this is insane

**Gear** · 09-07-2008, 04:25 AM

Bogdan, nobody uses that much insulin .

-Gear

**bogdan84uzy** · 09-07-2008, 04:29 AM

yes,just a crazy guy that was talking sh.. i think no doubt from the first time i hve read it...
gear,maybe you will have tio answer my message if you want..

**Gear** · 09-07-2008, 04:32 AM

Sorry I will answer your PM tonight. I have been very buzy.

-Gear

**bogdan84uzy** · 09-07-2008, 04:33 AM

No problem..thank you very much for the time spend

**Gear** · 09-07-2008, 07:22 AM

Anytime Bogdan.

-Gear

**bogdan84uzy** · 09-08-2008, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Gear

Actos is for people who have type II diabetes, and I can see where you're going with that but it is not necessary.

-Gear

I HAVE READ ON CHEMICAL MUSCLE ENCHACEMENT about METFORMIN and the reason why athletes use it.one of the reason was that:

During pancreatic regeneration or protocols that included Glipizide, Glyburide, or
other pancreatic/insulin stimulation, Glucophage increased the effectiveness and
amplified results. 500 MG 2 x daily was the common Glucophage dosage for this
purpose.

this is what i have asking..and a kind of PCT for insulin...and i think it is a good ideea!

**DEVLDOG** · 09-10-2008, 03:53 PM

Gear will vouch for me here... a few yrs ago I ran slin at 12iu everyday for 17months straight,yes 17 months straight and came to the conclusion it is worthless,good for maybe 5lbs and thats it..I do not suggest slin to anyone,unless your walking on stage at the Olympia and that 5lbs could make or brake you

btw,its been almost 3 yrs since i touched slin,theres nothing wrong with me.

theres your answer

**bogdan84uzy** · 09-11-2008, 02:00 AM

k...so!!FIRST...what you say here i am not agree with 17months straight use of insulin ,even if you say that you have no problem..and also i know that insulin it is realy good for bulk,if you raise your's uptake of carbo up till 12 carbo/1ui...WHAT ARE YOUR'S RESULTS WITH INSULIN IN PCT???many users i have heard that had help them to retain theirs gains and even to gain extra pounds more..

**DEVLDOG** · 09-11-2008, 08:31 AM

Bro,believe me or dont,I dont care either way,I have been at this for over 21yrs now,im 38yrs old,started gear in 1987.I know what im talking about...Slin is over hyped.slin wont help you retain anything IMO. In My Avitar I am 292 lbs with a 36" waist...no slin!
12g of carbe per iu is too high if you ask me,you want the minimum you can get away with without going hypo,for me it was 7g per iu anything more then what you need will be stored as fat,sure that means more bulk if you you dont care about putting on fat but most ppl arent trying to get fat.I never used any meters or anything,always go by feel and know what kind and how much of the nutrition you are getting,I had diet down to a science when i was using slin.everybody is different but you only know through trial and error what works for you and 7g of carbs was my ideal amount...

if your trying to bulk,you dont need anything more then TEST and food..500mg a week isnt gonna get you anywhere im talkin 2-3 grams a week if you want real size and as you progress you can add more to that,there were times i was poutting 5gr a week of shit in my body...now,I maintain at 285 with 600mg of test and 400mg of deca a week...theres no secrets,cycles arent the answer,if you want to be big you need to think big.I dont believe in cycles either.waste of time,when you go off your body is in turmoil,no matter how good your pct is.I havent been off in over 3yrs now,get routine checks and im as healthy as a horse and as strrong as one...hahah

dont believe everything you read,only experienbce will tell you the truth and i have a ton of experience,personal experience

**bogdan84uzy** · 09-11-2008, 08:37 AM

My friend i don't know who have learned you to this way but i think that many can tell you that you are very wrong!!!i am curious how strong and healthy you will be when you will go off the steroids

....after a 3years non-stop administration

**DEVLDOG** · 09-11-2008, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by bogdan84uzy

My friend i don't know who have learned you to this way but i think that many can tell you that you are very wrong!!!i am curious how strong and healthy you will be when you will go off the steroids

....after a 3years non-stop administration

haha....ok kid,you keep trying to figure it out for yourself then.I spent alot of time,$$ and energy at this,I have trained over the yrs with guys who have competed in the Olympia,guys who have won contests like overall Mr USA, overal at the Nationals....I know what it takes kid.if your not serious about it then be content to be average.

goodluck to you but you dont need it since you have it all figured out..

**bogdan84uzy** · 09-11-2008, 08:59 AM

it is your's business what you are doing...but maybe some kids will read and they will thing it is no problem to take 3years nonstop steroids and insulin 17months straight ed...good think you learned them

**Narkissos** · 09-11-2008, 10:39 AM

^^You've come to a discussion forum requesting information and opinions.

You are in no position, knowing nothing, to tell another member that he is 'wrong'.

Each of us makes a personal decision based on what risks are deemed acceptable.

Personally i've run slin longer than most... though not as long as DD.

I've run 10-12 IUs for an extended period... using a very low 4gr of carbohydrates per IU of insulin .

As gear said, there are no studies showing down-regulation of the pancreatic cells from extended use.

And, some have hypothesized that the exogenous application of insulin actually preserves the pancreatic cells due to the reduced workload on said cells.

-CNS

**DEVLDOG** · 09-11-2008, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by bogdan84uzy

it is your's business what you are doing...but maybe some kids will read and they will thing it is no problem to take 3years nonstop steroids and insulin 17months straight ed...good think you learned them

If ppl want to be BIG i can tell them how to make it happen,what the risk part is on you.

you asked the question and I gave you the answer,I cant help you because you want to think these little doese are what makes BB huge,your just fouling yourselves,im given it straight,I dont come on this board looking for answers,I have all the answers I need,I come here to help others who want to be huge achieve that goal

and as for kids reading what I write,well you have to be 18 I believe to belong to this board and by then I would hope you were mature enough to make your own decisions,

in the future,dont ask the question you dont want the answer to.you just may not like what you here.

when I die,whenever that may be,its gonna be a big damn box

**Narkissos** · 09-11-2008, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by binder

SHOULD
WOULD

wtf is wrong with the youth. this better be a mobile post.

Agreed.

-CNS

**bogdan84uzy** · 09-11-2008, 10:43 AM

when you die....i have heard it before...good menthality you have..but i don't think that way,soory

**DEVLDOG** · 09-11-2008, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by *Narkissos*

^^You've come to a discussion forum requesting information and opinions.

You are in no position, knowing nothing, to tell another member that he is 'wrong'.

Each of us makes a personal decision based on what risks are deemed acceptable.

Personally i've run slin longer than most... though not as long as DD.

I've run 10-12 IUs for an extended period... using a very low 4gr of carbohydrates per IU of insulin .

As gear said, there are no studies showing down-regulation of the pancreatic cells from extended use.

And, some have hypothesized that the exogenous application of insulin actually preserves the pancreatic cells due to the reduced workload on said cells.

-CNS

some never get it!! ha

how you been bro,I havent been around in a while but back now ,theres alot of misguided information i see around here

**Narkissos** · 09-11-2008, 11:20 AM

I've been cool DD

Good to see you're still alive and kicking

**DEVLDOG** · 09-11-2008, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by *Narkissos*

I've been cool DD

Good to see you're still alive and kicking

ha,"alive and kicking"...thought maybe the slin got to me...hahaha

**jstraw428** · 09-11-2008, 12:59 PM

I run insulin all the time with very little time off between on and off......I use anywhere from 20-30ius daily of Novolog, which is a fast acting insulin......

I take 5iu upon waking up and consume first meal.....Then i have 10iu pwo....then another 10iu after my second workout.....on non workout days i use he same amount of insulin, but i space it more throughout the day....I am very educated on insulin, as my mom is insulin dependent....i know this poses many risks with me taking it, but i take all the precautions i can.....

**jstraw428** · 09-11-2008, 01:00 PM

I can also go very low on my carb to slin ratio.....I only take in about 4-5g of carb per iu.... and i have never had a problem with going hypo.....

**DEVLDOG** · 09-11-2008, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by bogdan84uzy

when you die....i have heard it before...good menthality you have..but i don't think that way,soory

So your never gonna die??/

everybody dies!!

you know something the rest of us dont,please share!!!!

**Narkissos** · 09-11-2008, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by jstraw428

and i have never had a problem with going hypo.....

Ditto.

I can count the number of times I've gone hypo...

Each time has been self-induced in a controlled environment when i was doing research for articles i wrote for the community in the past.

I realized in the course of my research that the placebo effect is powerfully debilitating.

Oftentimes the symptoms which manifest are the ones we expect... and these in no way reflect what's going on with our bodies at the time.

I'd advise anyone new to insulin to use a BG meter to establish baseline.

That way it's easy to distinguish between actual hypo and hysteria.

The latter is one of the reasons people get fat on insulin.

Their minds tell 'em "dude, you're gonna go hypo and fall into a coma"... they start to feel that way immediately.. despite no change in the blood glucose levels.

They cram a shitload of carbs down their throats.. and voila, a fat-ass is born.

-CNS