"God abhors a naked singulartiy"

[Phreak101]

For all you yogi's....Johan per usual, your input would be appreciated, I know the tagline got your attention.

I'm going to quote it straight from the book, because it sounds stupid coming out of my mouth...bear with me I need it for my point...

"...according to Einstein's theory of general relativity, there must be an infinite density and space-time curvature within a black hole. At this singularity the laws of science and our ability to predict the furture (through cause and effect analysis) would break down. However, any observer who remained outside the black hole would not be affected by this failire of predictability, because neither the light nor any other signal could escape the gravity of the singularity. This led Roger Penrose to propose the cosmic censorship theory, which might be paraphrased as 'God abhors a naked singularity.' In other words, the singularities produced by gravitational collapse occur only in places, like black holes, where they are decently hidden from outside view by an event horizon."

-Stephen Hawking, A Brief History of Time

What this is saying in a nutshell is that the point of which is usually the center of a black hole and a decent size around it are not governed by either physics or time. Nothing can be detected at a certain point around this center because nothing can escape it, not even light. Don't forget, this is straight up SCIENCE. The man who wrote this quote is considered the most brilliant physicist alive. For those of you uninterested in physics, you'd know him as the weird looking guy in the wheelchair that talks with a computer.

This idea brought me to a thought. If you believe in God, then you must believe that God must have a reason for everything, even black holes. Without a reason for it's existence, why would God make it in the first place? If it is impossible to observe what is inside a black hole without going into one (which even if you did, it would be impossible to ever get out or tell anyone what you saw), it brought me to wondering why all the secrecy? Why put something in front of us, allow us to see it, yet not allow us to see why or how it works, especially when what is inside of it is unlike anything most of us could even begin to fathom.

Jeff and I were mulling it over one day during a commerical, and I came to the conclusion that the in the end, there are only two outcomes, universe expands until every star dies out, or universe starts shrinking and collapses on itself (big bang 2?). The only things that make so much force that they will actually dictate the fate of either outcomes are black holes. Long story short, I find it ironic that the fate of the universe boils down to a bunch of chaotic masses we cannot (are not allowed to?) observe in any fashion. Is this science....or God putting the black box over the private parts of creation?

Hope this provides some brainfood for those daydreamers out there...comments welcome as usual. I know you people are reading this, don't be shy about responding, my respect goes up for those who ponder the same....

[needmorestrength]

Maybe god isnt in control right now...

[tonytone]

or maybe man created god out of ignorance and fear...

[Herris]

A problem I have with this is given these 2 statements:

At this singularity the laws of science and our ability to predict the furture (through cause and effect analysis) would break down.

If it is impossible to observe what is inside a black hole without going into one (which even if you did, it would be impossible to ever get out or tell anyone what you saw)

we could not ever predict that it would infact be impossible to get out of a black hole or communicate out of one due to the fact that the laws of science would not apply.

[stunner5000pt]

man i would answer this if i WASNT in 3rd year of undergrad and if i was in GRAD SCHOOL!

this stuff is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy beyond the scope of an undergrad

in my school, at least, theu ndergrad doesnt cover general relativity in depth, only gives an intro to it

[BgMc31]

Black holes still remain a theory. Although we know something exist in dark matter, but since we are unable to determine what exactly happens inside a black hole (we can only theorize) we don't actually know the extent. Black holes have been theorized as worm holes, that they actually are rips in time/space. Therefore until we can actually observe what happens on the opposite side of a black hole, we can only theorize on the outcomes of entering one. Maybe God created black holes are a way to successfully navigate the stars. Or maybe man did create God out of fear and ignorance and black holes are just unescapable holes to no where.


Please excuse the ignorant rant of a former football player with a business degree! LOL!!!!

[Phreak101]

Black holes still remain a theory. Although we know something exist in dark matter, but since we are unable to determine what exactly happens inside a black hole (we can only theorize) we don't actually know the extent. Black holes have been theorized as worm holes, that they actually are rips in time/space. Therefore until we can actually observe what happens on the opposite side of a black hole, we can only theorize on the outcomes of entering one. Maybe God created black holes are a way to successfully navigate the stars. Or maybe man did create God out of fear and ignorance and black holes are just unescapable holes to no where.


Please excuse the ignorant rant of a former football player with a business degree! LOL!!!!

Hey Im the same way dude, business degree ehre as well!

I think wormholes exist WITHIN a black hole, but I'm not sure. I'm hoping Johan will spot this thread and comment, because now I'm curious.

[spywizard]

wow, that's not even a theory.. it's based on too many unproven assumptions..

[Kärnfysikern]

For all you yogi's....Johan per usual, your input would be appreciated, I know the tagline got your attention.

I havent acctualy studied general relativity yet. Il probably do it during the comming semester or next year not sure yet. So take what I write with a grain of salt Before I have toyed around with the equations everything I write is just second hand info...

I'm going to quote it straight from the book, because it sounds stupid coming out of my mouth...bear with me I need it for my point...

"...according to Einstein's theory of general relativity, there must be an infinite density and space-time curvature within a black hole. At this singularity the laws of science and our ability to predict the furture (through cause and effect analysis) would break down. However, any observer who remained outside the black hole would not be affected by this failire of predictability, because neither the light nor any other signal could escape the gravity of the singularity. This led Roger Penrose to propose the cosmic censorship theory, which might be paraphrased as 'God abhors a naked singularity.' In other words, the singularities produced by gravitational collapse occur only in places, like black holes, where they are decently hidden from outside view by an event horizon."

-Stephen Hawking, A Brief History of Time

The thing is. Most physicist seems to belive that the singularity does not exist. Its just a mathematical curiosity because einsteins equations just doesnt work inside a black hole. We need a theory of quantum gravity to make any sense out of it and since we dont have it yet its just speculation even comming from someone like Hawking

What this is saying in a nutshell is that the point of which is usually the center of a black hole and a decent size around it are not governed by either physics or time. Nothing can be detected at a certain point around this center because nothing can escape it, not even light. Don't forget, this is straight up SCIENCE. The man who wrote this quote is considered the most brilliant physicist alive. For those of you uninterested in physics, you'd know him as the weird looking guy in the wheelchair that talks with a computer.

Well it certainly is governed by physics we just dont know how those laws look yet and time might be a bit wierd there but I guess it exist in some fashion.

This idea brought me to a thought. If you believe in God, then you must believe that God must have a reason for everything, even black holes. Without a reason for it's existence, why would God make it in the first place? If it is impossible to observe what is inside a black hole without going into one (which even if you did, it would be impossible to ever get out or tell anyone what you saw), it brought me to wondering why all the secrecy? Why put something in front of us, allow us to see it, yet not allow us to see why or how it works, especially when what is inside of it is unlike anything most of us could even begin to fathom.

The bolded part is quite funny because that is the exact same question I asked myself but about all the "useless" particles that exist without any real purpose. I even asked my professor about it and he just friendly laughed and said that is how things are and what purpose things have is philosophy not physics. It still disturbes me though to know about the existance of all those different particles. I want everything to have a clear purpose and lack of purpose disturbs me. But I guess that is how reality is. Some things probably just are the way they are and maby we will never be able to explain why.

Jeff and I were mulling it over one day during a commerical, and I came to the conclusion that the in the end, there are only two outcomes, universe expands until every star dies out, or universe starts shrinking and collapses on itself (big bang 2?). The only things that make so much force that they will actually dictate the fate of either outcomes are black holes. Long story short, I find it ironic that the fate of the universe boils down to a bunch of chaotic masses we cannot (are not allowed to?) observe in any fashion. Is this science....or God putting the black box over the private parts of creation?

Well black holes have no real impact on the evolution of the universe in that sense. A black hole has exactly the same gravitational field as the star that existed before it and effect the sourounding universe in the exact same way. If you squeesed down the earth into a black hole the moon would continue to circle the earth undisturbed without knowing the difference.

[Kärnfysikern]

man i would answer this if i WASNT in 3rd year of undergrad and if i was in GRAD SCHOOL!

this stuff is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy beyond the scope of an undergrad

in my school, at least, theu ndergrad doesnt cover general relativity in depth, only gives an intro to it

wierd. Any undergrad physics education I have seen in sweden offer general relativity as a chooise during the third or fourth year.

Ohh god do I hope I can take a gen rel class this fall because relativity is what brought me into physics in the first place. I have been waiting for it forever it feels like.

[Kärnfysikern]

Hey Im the same way dude, business degree ehre as well!

I think wormholes exist WITHIN a black hole, but I'm not sure. I'm hoping Johan will spot this thread and comment, because now I'm curious.

Wormholes are very theoretical...They can exist according to general relativity but general relativity also allows time travel back in time and general relativity isnt the final word on gravity and spacetime.
Personaly I belife time travel will be proven impossible when we get a good quantum gravity theory but I sure do hope wormholes will remain as a possibility Light speed limit is so damn boring.

[Phreak101]

Nice