Another mind blowing question by BJ69. =]

[Tapout]

Bo dont get stressed remember you started this lol
one more thought
if one considers homosexuality wrong,transgender wrong,pedophiles wrong (good points about in old days 15 year olds were prime--actually look at jokes about southern states and marrying 15 year olds as being acceptable)suicide wrong,murder wrong --where did the wrong come from
in other words
Edited. Leave out the topic of religion.
in society's eyes-- yes(even though not as much these days as 10 years ago)
in individuals eyes--***ends on the person
in natures eyes--yes as we are only here to procreate and continue our species in some theorists thoughts
phedophiles are wrong in all eyes sometimes even in the eyes of those doing it

so it still has the question if homosexuality,phedophiles or crossgenders are caused by mental illness, gene alteration or choice
it may be none of the above,one of them or a little bit of all three--we will probably never know

[Tapout]

superhuman I agree with almost everything you stated except for the foods
I think it does come from an individual taste--I LOVE CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIES AND TABLE SPOONS OF CRUNCHY PEANUT BUTTER but my son,who him and I spend alot of time together and are close,hates both of them--he didnt learn that from my wife or I he just does not have the tast for them

so I dont think everything is a learned response but most things are--and usually a child by the age of 3 has most of their life traits in them

[thegodfather]

Bo, you got a PM...dont want to offend anyone..

[Carlos_E]

i think homosexuality is a mental disorder. animals are not supposed to have sex with the same sex. we are here to reproduce not have buttsecks. but who cares if it is a mental disorder. anxeity is a mental disoreder who i have it **** it

Straight peole aren't supposed to have butt sex either but as much as people post about it you sure do love it.

[Carlos_E]

This is an excellent example and I have used it many times. Almost all pedophiles say that they're sexual preference came about the same way in which Carlos' homosexuality did... and I will quote Carlos again, "No, I did not wake up one day and decide I want to be gay. No, I have not been molested or had a traumatic life experience... For me, I am gay, always have been. It's just how it is."

Every pedophile I have seen interviewed or read a transcript of their interview, has said that they were born that way and that they have tried to supress they're feelings for children in fear of harassment and incarcaration but failed. Most gay people I have spoken with have had a similar experience, saying that they were born like that and they have tried to fight it their whole life in fear of being persecuted for it. Many gay men and women I know (including withing my family) have dated, even married the opposite sex in an attempt to rid themselves of the gay feelings and, of course, failed. Many pedolphiles are married with children but have, like the homosexuals, failed to get rid of their feelings.


Please tell me why it's acceptable then to be gay but not to be a pedophile... and please give me a reason other than "being gay doesn't hurt anybody but being a pedophile does"

A child is not a consenting adult.

[thegodfather]

Bo, a couple of things I want to touch on...

First off, its not what nature "GAINS" from these abnormalities. As you know Bo, nature does not evolve in a "straight line." If you know anything about the evolution of humans, humans did not evovle in that typical chart where you see an ape slowly starting to walk upright. Nature evolves in JERKS..PULLS...TUGS..LEAPS...which can be followed by stagnation or hundreds of other variables. Eventually, (where we are today) the most fit organism survives. Looking back through human fossils, we see MANY different types of humans that were evolving AT THE SAME TIME PERIOD! Thats remarkable, because nature was shooting in different directions at the same time to test which organism would work the best.

Cancer is a very good example of evolution. To us, cancer is a BAD thing. However, to nature, cancer is how we evolve as organisms. If we have a GOOD mutation then the organism goes on living and NEVER KNOWS IT!.. However, when we have a BAD mutation, the cancer then takes over the organism ultimately causing it to die.

So, apply these simple principles we know about nature and its evolutionary pattern to your problem Bo... Heterosexual is the status quo of the human organism, it appears to be what nature has saught to evolve to, because as we know about nature& living organisms, they seek to do only one thing "to live" and therefore having the ability to reproduce is paramount. Now, using Heterosexual human beings as the status quo, you can accurately group all other orientations or predispositions as nature "off shooting" to try other formats. This is just a general observation, but one you should take a look at..

My closing argument. Bo, as I'm sure you have read in some Sociology books. in ANY society there will always be the accepted and unaccepted. In a theoretical 'perfect' society where no one commited crimes as we know them today and got perfect grades, people would be penalized to 10-25 year jail sentences for getting a "B" on their report card, or for spitting on the sidewalk (look at Singapore). So as far as societal morals go, they are all relative to the status quo accepted behaviors within that culture...

I completely overlooked another aspect to what you are trying to uncover here Bo... That is another one of natures tools which is disease. Although to most organisms disease is a bad and unpleasent thing, it happens to be very useful for nature in controlling population of the top food chain organisms. Perhaps these innate 'feelings' these people are having are in fact genetically influenced and therefore can be considered a 'physical' disease. Since these peoples desires will preclude them from reproducing (Male to Female/Female to Male) because once they make the jump they will no longer have functioning sexual reproductive organs.

As stated earlier, any living organisms sole desire is 'to live'. And thus it wants to ensure its survival by reproducing so that its species can continue to live. Any alteration or predisposition that would preclude the organism from reproductive activity would not be desirable to the continuity of that organism.

The above are observations about nature, natural selection, and evolution. My comments are by no means meant to offend anyone. These are strictly scientific observations made with no ones "feelings" in mind. Since we are talking on a scientific ground, and not a moral, ethical, or political one, these comments should not offend anyone.

I realise they may be somewhat not politically correct. But I also dont feel that politics has any business in Science. Since we do live in a society though aside from looking at this aspect from a purely scientific standpoint, I have no problem with people pursuing their innate desires or feelings as I feel we humans have no control over such things and must play the cards we're dealt. I believe in doing whatever makes a person happy, to do something otherwise would be counterinuitive....

[CSAR]

Straight peole aren't supposed to have butt sex either but as much as people post about it you sure do love it.

Soooo true...

[Tapout]

bo
this be an "answer" to your question
as we write there is an ongoing debate in St Pete Florida--the city manager Steve has decided that he wants to be a female named Susan--he is leaving his wife and childern,teens I believe,to become a female
the city of St Pete has stated they are not comfortable with his ability to be a leader of the city now and have fired him. they also implied or possibly even said,in so many words, that this is basically a mental illness and his abilty to lead is in jeapordy because of his unstable mental condition,
the stress and embarisment he has put on his family could also make decision making an issue
from what is being reported most of the people in the area are supporting the city's decision--which must imply that the majority of people feel it is a mental illness

[IronReload04]

i think homosexuality is a mental disorder. animals are not supposed to have sex with the same sex. we are here to reproduce not have buttsecks. but who cares if it is a mental disorder. anxeity is a mental disoreder who i have it **** it

I used to think exactly like that.....(I am heterosexual by the way)

One day maybe you will meet somone who changes your mind about that way of thinking

[IronReload04]

I don't think as a baby we have any sexual preference at all... I don't even remember the desire to kiss a girl for instinctual reasons until the 4th grade. I kissed a girl in kindergarten, but that was ONLY because I saw 2 people kissing on TV the same day. I believe there is a certain point in development where you "discover" the opposite sex (or in your case the same sex).

I think that we are influenced to have sexual desire by our environment (parents, media, friends). There was a boy who was raised in the wild by animals... when he came back he didn't know what to do with a female, he had no desire for sex because his environment didn't teach him that... which leads me to believe sexual preference is a learned trait. Was I born liking certain foods? I don't think so... I think it was the way I was raised, specific experiences I had as a very young boy that led me to develop the taste I have.

It has been understood for some time that the way your parents raise you in the first 5 or so years of your life will nearly fully determine what you will be like as an adult.

I dunno, I can rememver being as young as 2 or 3 years old and horny as hell for women and only women. I am making jokes or tyring to be funny, honestly, I can remember being that young and getting throbbing hard ons when thinking of grown women and having no idea what to do with it. If I would have known what to do (with the hand), i would have been doing it at 2 - 3 years old. I would always pretend girls had cooties, just to be normal, but deep down I wanted them so bad.

[spywizard]

I think the question becomes, if society was perfectly accepting and 100 percent free of evil and hatred, would they still have the same mental probems in this case?

because imo, if this were true hypothetically, than homosexuality would be as accepting as a guy liking a girl, so I think no, they dont have these issues anymore and all would be peaceful.

But I think we know the anwer to that

I would have to agree with you.. but in a perfect world.. frogs would have wings so they wouldn't bump their butts on the ground..

so we have to deal with today..

[novastepp]

what makes it an illness?
signs?
or symptoms?

the mind and perception are responsible for how we act.
gay.
straight.
transgender.

but what defines it as a disorder?

it all deals with perception, and i personally have a really hard time believing that many of the problems we classify today are actually problems at all.

[IronReload04]

This is an excellent example and I have used it many times. Almost all pedophiles say that they're sexual preference came about the same way in which Carlos' homosexuality did... and I will quote Carlos again, "No, I did not wake up one day and decide I want to be gay. No, I have not been molested or had a traumatic life experience... For me, I am gay, always have been. It's just how it is."

Every pedophile I have seen interviewed or read a transcript of their interview, has said that they were born that way and that they have tried to supress they're feelings for children in fear of harassment and incarcaration but failed. Most gay people I have spoken with have had a similar experience, saying that they were born like that and they have tried to fight it their whole life in fear of being persecuted for it. Many gay men and women I know (including withing my family) have dated, even married the opposite sex in an attempt to rid themselves of the gay feelings and, of course, failed. Many pedolphiles are married with children but have, like the homosexuals, failed to get rid of their feelings.


Please tell me why it's acceptable then to be gay but not to be a pedophile... and please give me a reason other than "being gay doesn't hurt anybody but being a pedophile does"

Here is my stance.......Pedaphile feelings imo are actually more normal than you would think......Now would I ever......I just want to stress HELL NO......NORMAL people supress these urges because its an immoral act, suppress them to the point that tihs is the furtherst thing on their mind and they wouldnt even dream of this ever, totally shut off by the brain, no urges what soever, suppressed in the same way that we wouldnt murder somone we got mad at ......Pedaphiles have somthing wrong with their brain, they lack this mechanism that tells them it is immoral.........Kind of like a Murderer, most people have a devil and an angel on their shoulders that argue than the ego or superego or somtthing (psych majors help), make the decision....pedo's and murderers lack the angel, its not there, the force arguing that it is immoral is to weak.


Now comparing pedophiles to homosexuals is is rediculous......Try shutting off your urges for women.....you cant do it.......imo, to a certain degree, you cannot decide what sex your attracted to, your born that way...


If you happen to know a homosexual, you might realize they are suicidal because they would give anything to be attracted to women and cry themselves to sleep everynight wishing they liked women....even though they had excellent parents

[ginkobulloba]

what makes it an illness?
signs?
or symptoms?

the mind and perception are responsible for how we act.
gay.
straight.
transgender.

but what defines it as a disorder?

it all deals with perception, and i personally have a really hard time believing that many of the problems we classify today are actually problems at all.

Dude, props for such a good answer.

[Mike Dura]

What is the reasoning behind categorizing transgenders as a mental disorder?

Ok the "difficulty" of this question is 99.9% relative to your whole preconceived notions about the idea but I want you to consider the following and think about it before you answer the question..

This is a question on psychology:

Some of you may or may not realize that if you were gay in the past you were considered to have a mental disorder diagnosable by the DSM IV. (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

I personally am hetero, but I major in psychology. I completely agree that being gay is NOT = to having a mental disorder. I know a few gay people who are probaly a great deal saner than myself.


I'm going to push the question further now because this is actually a question in my head I can't reach a logical conclusion for. One day in the future I will prob be faced with someone who comes into my office and I'm just not sure the DSM takes the right position on this issue.

The question is:

Do you consider a transgender person, somebody who wants to be the opposite gender of which they were born, someone with a mental disorder?

The DSM IV currently says YES, the disorder is called "gender identity disorder" and its considered a diagnosable mental disorder.

But is it really? or
Thats my question. I have met only **1** transgender person in my life but never got to know them good enough to make any solid judgements about them, even if I did my judgements on one person arent generalizable to a whole population. And I really stand on the fence with this question. One part of me wants to say no! these people DO NOT have a mental disorder, but another part of me says maybe they really do..


I just want peoples philosophies, opinions, ANYTHING because out of everything I've studied in that book this is one topic Im really puzzled by.

[Carlos_E]

If you happen to know a homosexual, you might realize they are suicidal because they would give anything to be attracted to women and cry themselves to sleep everynight wishing they liked women....even though they had excellent parents

You should clarify this with "homosexuals who are filled with self hatred." They hate themselves because that is what they were taught. Do I wish I liked women or wish that I could change? No. I have no interest in them. I have no reason to. My family and friends love me and to them its a none issue.

[tinyguy2]

I used to think exactly like that.....(I am heterosexual by the way)

One day maybe you will meet somone who changes your mind about that way of thinking

i am not saying it is bad. at all i am just saying homosexuality is justsome sort of chemical imbalance or genetic mutation that we have yet to find. We are made to reproduce. We are nothing more than an animal that thinks we are special. I love teh buttsecks as much as the next man but i also like regular secks

[Superhuman]

A child is not a consenting adult.

I know that... I meant besides the arguments of "gay people aren't hurting eachother", or "gay people are consenting". I'm not talking about the action itself, but rather the state of mind. People for years have said homosexuality is not right (again, not just talking about the action, but instead the sexual preference itself), yet gay people would say they couldn't help it and were born like that - thus meaning that since it is naturally occuring it is okay and acceptable. Pedaphiles say they were born with it and cannot help it, thus it is acceptable? If a pedaphile doesn't act on their feelings is it still a disorder???

If I go by this, then an individual who constantly has homicidal fantasies and gets off imagining cutting people up into little pieces does not have a disorder unless he acts on it. I'm sorry, but somebody that wants to do that shit has a ****ing disorder - end of story.

I'm okay with homosexuality but I still believe it is a disorder - it just happens to be an accepted one in present day. Obesity can be a result of a disorder where people can't regulate their eating or where they binge eat for multiple reasons. Obesity has now been accepted, as MILLIONS of people are now obese. It is definitely not a good thing, yet socially it is wrong to ridicule these people anymore as it may hurt their feelings - they have a disorder where they can't control their urges to eat.... much like homosexuals have a disorder where they can't control their urges to have sex with the same gender!!!!!

DOES ANYBODY SEE MY POINTS?????? Again, I'm not saying gays are bad or anything like that - but there is nothing wrong with delving into the reason why they are the way they are, and whether THAT in and of itself is a disorder are not. You have stated your OPINIONS on the matter and so have I. Just because Carlos is gay does not mean his opinions on the cause of homosexuality are fact.

[Carlos_E]

I know that... I meant besides the "gay people aren't hurting eachother", or "gay people are consenting". I'm not talking about the action itself, but rather the state of mind. People for years said homosexuality is not right (again, not just talking about the action but instead the sexual preference), yet gay people would say they couldn't help it and were born like that - thus meaning that since it is naturally occuring it is okay and acceptable. Pedaphiles say they were born with it and cannot help it, thus it is acceptable. If a pedaphile doesn't act on their feelings is it still a disorder??? This is ludacrous.

If I go by this, then an individual who constantly has homicidal fantasies and gets off imagining cutting people up into little pieces does not have a disorder unless he acts on it. I'm sorry, but somebody that wants to do that shit has a ****ing disorder - end of story.

I'm okay with homosexuality but I still belive it is a disorder - it just happense to be an accepted one in present day. Obesity can be a result of a disorder where people can't regulate their eating for multiple reasons, or where they binge eat for multiple reasons. Obesity has now been accepted, as MILLIONS of people are now obese. It is definitely not a good thing, yet socially it is not okay to ridicule these people anymore as it may hurt their feelings - they have a disorder where they can't control their urges to eat.... much like homosexuals have a disorder where they can't control their urges to have sex with the same gender!!!!!

DOES ANYBODY SEE MY POINTS?????? Again, I'm not saying gays are bad or anything like that - but there is nothing wrong with delving into the reason why they are the way they are, and whether THAT in and of itself is a disorder are not. You have stated your OPINIONS on the matter and so have I. Just because Carlos is gay does not mean his opinions on the cause of homosexuality is fact.

A peophile hurts a child. A homicidal maniac hurts people. Who are gay people hurting?

[Superhuman]

A peophile hurts a child. A homicidal maniac hurts people. Who are gay people hurting?

you're missing my point!!!! I'm not talking about the act itself... but the fact that they FEEL this way.

Say a man has been in a marriage for 15 years and has never, ever touched a child in an inappropriate way. He has always had fantasies of being with young girls or boys and gets off to them... even imaging a child while having sex with his wife. Is this a disorder??

Some people have fetishes where they can ONLY get off while a women is tied up and acting like she is being raped. I forget the name of this, but it is considered a disorder even though he is not hurting anyone.

[Mike Dura]

This is a classic false analogy. You can't compare pedophiles saying I can't help it with gays saying that for obvious reasons. Homosexuality is as legit as heterosexuality. Pedophilia is not nor never will be legit because there are victims involved. Interestingly, a controversial meta-analytic study reported that children who have had sexual relationships with adults were not psychologically damage and it even suggested it was a possitive experience. This was reported in a main stream peer reviewed social science journal. Let me make it clear that doesn't reflect my attitude at all. Conservative talk show host Dr. Laura Shlessinger got a hold of it and it became the news of the day (in the late nineties). I like that it got a rise out of her.

I know that... I meant besides the arguments of "gay people aren't hurting eachother", or "gay people are consenting". I'm not talking about the action itself, but rather the state of mind. People for years have said homosexuality is not right (again, not just talking about the action, but instead the sexual preference itself), yet gay people would say they couldn't help it and were born like that - thus meaning that since it is naturally occuring it is okay and acceptable. Pedaphiles say they were born with it and cannot help it, thus it is acceptable? If a pedaphile doesn't act on their feelings is it still a disorder???

If I go by this, then an individual who constantly has homicidal fantasies and gets off imagining cutting people up into little pieces does not have a disorder unless he acts on it. I'm sorry, but somebody that wants to do that shit has a ****ing disorder - end of story.

I'm okay with homosexuality but I still believe it is a disorder - it just happens to be an accepted one in present day. Obesity can be a result of a disorder where people can't regulate their eating or where they binge eat for multiple reasons. Obesity has now been accepted, as MILLIONS of people are now obese. It is definitely not a good thing, yet socially it is wrong to ridicule these people anymore as it may hurt their feelings - they have a disorder where they can't control their urges to eat.... much like homosexuals have a disorder where they can't control their urges to have sex with the same gender!!!!!

DOES ANYBODY SEE MY POINTS?????? Again, I'm not saying gays are bad or anything like that - but there is nothing wrong with delving into the reason why they are the way they are, and whether THAT in and of itself is a disorder are not. You have stated your OPINIONS on the matter and so have I. Just because Carlos is gay does not mean his opinions on the cause of homosexuality are fact.

[Mike Dura]

Ok we get you. But do you feel that you can't help being a heterosexual? Maybe your state of mind is unhealthy! LoL. Now we're on the same page - I think.

you're missing my point!!!! I'm not talking about the act itself... but the fact that they FEEL this way.

Say a man has been in a marriage for 15 years and has never, ever touched a child in an inappropriate way. He has always had fantasies of being with young girls or boys and gets off to them... even imaging a child while having sex with his wife. Is this a disorder??

Some people have fetishes where they can ONLY get off while a women is tied up and acting like she is being raped. I forget the name of this, but it is considered a disorder even though he is not hurting anyone.

[IronReload04]

You should clarify this with "homosexuals who are filled with self hatred." They hate themselves because that is what they were taught. Do I wish I liked women or wish that I could change? No. I have no interest in them. I have no reason to. My family and friends love me and to them its a none issue.

they was a poor choice of a word to use, my bad


I know many are comfortable with who they are


Just with my experience, one guy i know, he has a lot of hurt and shame inside, two out of the three I know are like this.....Its enough to realize that its not a choice.

[IronReload04]

i am not saying it is bad. at all i am just saying homosexuality is justsome sort of chemical imbalance or genetic mutation that we have yet to find. We are made to reproduce. We are nothing more than an animal that thinks we are special. I love teh buttsecks as much as the next man but i also like regular secks

ya man, I didnt mean to like preach down at you or anything like that....ya know how it is, online things can get taken the wrong way...


All I was saying is if you actually know a gay man, you might realize that it really isnt a choice

[IronReload04]

I know that... I meant besides the arguments of "gay people aren't hurting eachother", or "gay people are consenting". I'm not talking about the action itself, but rather the state of mind. People for years have said homosexuality is not right (again, not just talking about the action, but instead the sexual preference itself), yet gay people would say they couldn't help it and were born like that - thus meaning that since it is naturally occuring it is okay and acceptable. Pedaphiles say they were born with it and cannot help it, thus it is acceptable? If a pedaphile doesn't act on their feelings is it still a disorder???

If I go by this, then an individual who constantly has homicidal fantasies and gets off imagining cutting people up into little pieces does not have a disorder unless he acts on it. I'm sorry, but somebody that wants to do that shit has a ****ing disorder - end of story.

I'm okay with homosexuality but I still believe it is a disorder - it just happens to be an accepted one in present day. Obesity can be a result of a disorder where people can't regulate their eating or where they binge eat for multiple reasons. Obesity has now been accepted, as MILLIONS of people are now obese. It is definitely not a good thing, yet socially it is wrong to ridicule these people anymore as it may hurt their feelings - they have a disorder where they can't control their urges to eat.... much like homosexuals have a disorder where they can't control their urges to have sex with the same gender!!!!!

DOES ANYBODY SEE MY POINTS?????? Again, I'm not saying gays are bad or anything like that - but there is nothing wrong with delving into the reason why they are the way they are, and whether THAT in and of itself is a disorder are not. You have stated your OPINIONS on the matter and so have I. Just because Carlos is gay does not mean his opinions on the cause of homosexuality are fact.

I understand your argument

1. as far as pedo and homocide, I think the disorder is based on not being able to stop these urges and decipher what is wrong and right

2. homosexuality is not comparable in this situation. What you are saying is like trying to convince you or me to fight of our urges to have sex with women. That sex drive we have, that you and me have for women, nobody put that their or influenced it, its how we're born....Goes both ways....I agree with the people saying homosexuality is a mutation of some sort.

[DSM4Life]

Just because someone is different people want to list them as having a "mental disorder ?"

Come on BJ, you know better then that.



I wish people would use all this wasted energy worring about other people and put it to good use.

[Carlos_E]

Just because someone is different people want to list them as having a "mental disorder ?"

Come on BJ, you know better then that.



I wish people would use all this wasted energy worring about other people and put it to good use.

How are you and the bf doing?

[spywizard]

You should clarify this with "homosexuals who are filled with self hatred." They hate themselves because that is what they were taught. Do I wish I liked women or wish that I could change? No. I have no interest in them. I have no reason to. My family and friends love me and to them its a none issue.

that's a good point carlos... self hate, and the youth induced guilt that is associated with being an outcast by one's family...

[DSM4Life]

How are you and the bf doing?

So far things are going great! Thanks for asking.

[thetank]

if a dude wants a vagina, all the power to the he-she...hell ill respect that elective surgery more than calf implants.

[Tock]

Like Tock said, they've got major mental issues perhaps as a result of their getting their dicks chopped off.

Huh . . . I hate being misquoted . . .


This is what I said:

It used to be that the only gay people that shrinks knew, and based their professional opinions on, were their screwed-up patients.

My guess is that eventually, shrinks will find a number of psychologically healthy transgender people and will adjust their professional opinions accordingly. Meanwhile, it won't be difficult to find transgender folks living under stress and harrassment, which usually creates other illnesses.

[Tock]

Please tell me why it's acceptable then to be gay but not to be a pedophile... and please give me a reason other than "being gay doesn't hurt anybody but being a pedophile does"

Everyone is entitled to their own feelings. No one has the right to act on those feelings if the action is unwanted or intrusive. That applies to both gays and heterosexuals.

Children typically don't have much power in their relationships with adults, so any adult would necessarily resort to bullying--close enough to violent abuse as far as I'm concerned--when they take advantage of their vulnerability for the purpose of satisfying their own sexual inclinations.

On the other hand, two gay cowboys in Texas, both in their 20's or 30's, who find each other irresistably attractive, should be mature enough to handle a weekend of hot sweaty sex together. And if Mr. & Mrs. Uptight in Nebraska become enraged at their recreational choices, well, that's not only none of their business, but a clear indication that the Uptights are the only folks in the equation suffering from a mental disorder requiring attention.

[spywizard]

Everyone is entitled to their own feelings. No one has the right to act on those feelings if the action is unwanted or intrusive. That applies to both gays and heterosexuals.

Children typically don't have much power in their relationships with adults, so any adult would necessarily resort to bullying--close enough to violent abuse as far as I'm concerned--when they take advantage of their vulnerability for the purpose of satisfying their own sexual inclinations.

On the other hand, two gay cowboys in Texas, both in their 20's or 30's, who find each other irresistably attractive, should be mature enough to handle a weekend of hot sweaty sex together. And if Mr. & Mrs. Uptight in Nebraska become enraged at their recreational choices, well, that's not only none of their business, but a clear indication that the Uptights are the only folks in the equation suffering from a mental disorder requiring attention.

but when a teacher in Boston decides that it's good for 12 yr olds to view that action.. how do ya feel about that..?? after all the 12 yr olds don't ahve a choice.. and the parents weren't consulted..

[Tock]

but when a teacher in Boston decides that it's good for 12 yr olds to view that action.. how do ya feel about that..?? after all the 12 yr olds don't ahve a choice.. and the parents weren't consulted..

What "action?"

IMHO, it's no biggie for kids to see that some people in some places are polygamists, some heterosexual, some "have two mommies," etc. An academic understanding of generalities that's age-appropriate should be ok. But no way should adults be showing kids anything like pornography.

[IronReload04]

but when a teacher in Boston decides that it's good for 12 yr olds to view that action.. how do ya feel about that..?? after all the 12 yr olds don't ahve a choice.. and the parents weren't consulted..

You know what man, I used to think the same way.....I used to get all upset and enraged about stuff like this......



But ya know what dude, ya know with exception of extremely unusual tramatic experiences, I just really do not believe their is a whole lot anyone can do to change somones sexual preference.



On the other hand, thinking about a son getting rased without a father figure, maybe he will turn out more feminine......This right here is another issue for debate.......

here is my view....Under normal circumstances with a reasonable mother or parent figure, I do not believe the son will be affected......However, if some inidvidual purposefully tried to raise a son to be feminine, I dont have a hypothesis on this yet.....BUt what I do think is the sexual preference still cannot be changed.



I will use a real life example......2 guys
1. never had a father figure in his life...mom is a little bit wacko....He turned out more feminine than masculine, you can definately see his mother in how he talks and acts and gestures, but he is still girl crazy and completely hetero. Doesnt really know how to act around women and has never been layed, but i know he is hetero
2. Grew up vast majority of his life without a father figure, gets layed by beautiful women at will, as far as I know 100 percent hetero

[Carlos_E]

You know what man, I used to think the same way.....I used to get all upset and enraged about stuff like this......



But ya know what dude, ya know with exception of extremely unusual tramatic experiences, I just really do not believe their is a whole lot anyone can do to change somones sexual preference.



On the other hand, thinking about a son getting rased without a father figure, maybe he will turn out more feminine......This right here is another issue for debate.......

here is my view....Under normal circumstances with a reasonable mother or parent figure, I do not believe the son will be affected......However, if some inidvidual purposefully tried to raise a son to be feminine, I dont have a hypothesis on this yet.....BUt what I do think is the sexual preference still cannot be changed.



I will use a real life example......2 guys
1. never had a father figure in his life...mom is a little bit wacko....He turned out more feminine than masculine, you can definately see his mother in how he talks and acts and gestures, but he is still girl crazy and completely hetero. Doesnt really know how to act around women and has never been layed, but i know he is hetero
2. Grew up vast majority of his life without a father figure, gets layed by beautiful women at will, as far as I know 100 percent hetero

One of my old teammates grew up with 2 moms. He is 100% straights and gets beautiful women.

[Carlos_E]

You know what man, I used to think the same way.....I used to get all upset and enraged about stuff like this......



But ya know what dude, ya know with exception of extremely unusual tramatic experiences, I just really do not believe their is a whole lot anyone can do to change somones sexual preference.



On the other hand, thinking about a son getting rased without a father figure, maybe he will turn out more feminine......This right here is another issue for debate.......

here is my view....Under normal circumstances with a reasonable mother or parent figure, I do not believe the son will be affected......However, if some inidvidual purposefully tried to raise a son to be feminine, I dont have a hypothesis on this yet.....BUt what I do think is the sexual preference still cannot be changed.



I will use a real life example......2 guys
1. never had a father figure in his life...mom is a little bit wacko....He turned out more feminine than masculine, you can definately see his mother in how he talks and acts and gestures, but he is still girl crazy and completely hetero. Doesnt really know how to act around women and has never been layed, but i know he is hetero
2. Grew up vast majority of his life without a father figure, gets layed by beautiful women at will, as far as I know 100 percent hetero

One of my old teammates grew up with 2 moms. He is 100% straights and gets beautiful women.

[IronReload04]

that just really supports the new perspective I have taken on things lately......



And I will tell you this also from personal experience...(i am adressing all)


Parenting (reasonable parenting by reasonable parents) has nothing to do with anything I dont think......you could have guys turn up gay in the least likely families that this could happen, families you would bet a million dollars on that homesexuality in males could never happen......personal knowledge of this happening


So i think it stands to reason that switch the scenerio, and 2 fathers or 2 mothers wont have a whole lot of effect.....Carlos backs this up

[Bojangles69]

Ok my first response (cause I've been a bit tied up recently and didnt read everything yet) is in response to Dr. Laura Shlessingers name being presented in this thread as a means of explaining a topic she is ill-informed on.

Just because shes a "Dr." doesnt mean what she says has any relevance to a topic based on evolution, survival and replication and a SHITLOAD of psychology when she has a fvcking degree in **physiology** not only that she has absolutely NO FORMAL EDUCATION on this topic at all and didn't even start talking about homosexuality till like 3-4 years ago.
ANd thats TALKING about it, on a radio show, based on her education on *Judaism which she persued after getting her PHD. NOT researching it, not reading about it, NOTHING, just citing other peoples work and her own opinions on a radio show which eventually was outrated by Rush fvcking Limbaugh!!
Not only that (im not even sure if shes still on the radio) but last I heard of her she was all fvcking politics, and as one member here already so importantly pointed out, politics has no place in science at all and serves no purpose but place a smoke-screen in front of theories that are based on REAL research and application, NOT factors like persuasion and influence.
In studying relative scientific figureheads and research credentials (in my major which is significantly related to the topic I posted) this women has absolutely **NO RELEVANCE OR CREDENTIALS** to say shit about this subject.
I have nothing personal against her, but she is not properly trained to speak about that of which almost anything that she does. Dr. Phil has more credentials in this field than she does for shits sake. She's nothing but a voice on a radio, listening to her in this situation would be like going to a dentist to get your hair cut, or wiping your ass before you shit.. makes no logical sense whatsoever.

[Bojangles69]

Just because someone is different people want to list them as having a "mental disorder ?"

Come on BJ, you know better then that.



I wish people would use all this wasted energy worring about other people and put it to good use.

"good use" like what? scratchin our balls and smelling our fingers all day?

Mental Disorders aren't like the tooth fairy. They are REAL and many people suffer from them.

If you think someone who rapes little children or chops thier penis off because they think they're a women doesnt have some screws loose in thier head you may want to go the garage and get a screwdriver.

Seriously, all joking aside. Theres a gapingly wide difference between the word DIFFERENT and the word DISORDER.
NOt everything thats different is a disorder. But a lot of everything that is a disorder IS different, except for the scarce few that have the disorder. Which is why we call it a disorder in the first place.

~Bo