Another mind blowing question by BJ69. =]

[Bojangles69]

And besides that I do see a lot of very insightful theories and what not coming from people so keep'em coming!
I never claimed to to be an expert on this topic which was my original reason for posting it.. just to see what other people thought or knew.

[Tapout]

good points by super and iron

yes bo there are alot of disorders--what I see as a disorder is in the name --anything that is not normal actions
like eating disorders--are these bad people--no just unable to control things
when it comes to sex --we were made to procreate and survive--we do this by having sex with the opposite sex--that is "normal" --weather one likes it or not that is what it is suppose to be
now having sex with the same sex does not make a person a bad person just "not normal" in nature and society--and it is not my place to judge that person
like Carlos said pe***hiles are different as they are involving someone that has no choice but weather they act on their urges or not it is a sickness (disorder) imo
as far as transgenders and homosexuals I think it is a "disorder" by definition but an acceptable one as they are not hurting other people--as is eating disorders or guys who like womens feet

[Carlos_E]

good points by super and iron

yes bo there are alot of disorders--what I see as a disorder is in the name --anything that is not normal actions
like eating disorders--are these bad people--no just unable to control things
when it comes to sex --we were made to procreate and survive--we do this by having sex with the opposite sex--that is "normal" --weather one likes it or not that is what it is suppose to be
now having sex with the same sex does not make a person a bad person just "not normal" in nature and society--and it is not my place to judge that person
like Carlos said pe***hiles are different as they are involving someone that has no choice but weather they act on their urges or not it is a sickness (disorder) imo
as far as transgenders and homosexuals I think it is a "disorder" by definition but an acceptable one as they are not hurting other people--as is eating disorders or guys who like womens feet

We got into this in another thread. Homosexuality does exist in nature. If it exist throughout the animal kindom as well as humans then it is natural.

http://www.jrn.columbia.edu/studentw...-06-10/591.asp

Wendell and Cass, two penguins at the New York Aquarium in Coney Island, Brooklyn, live in a soap opera world of seduction and intrigue. Among the 22 male and 10 female African black-footed penguins in the aquarium's exhibit, tales of love, lust and betrayal are the norm. These birds mate for life. But given the disproportionate male-female ratio at the aquarium, some of the females flirt profusely and dump their partners for single males with better nests.

From national geographic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0vGamcQIYs

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770
Oslo museum opens world's first gay animals exhibition


The birds and the bees may be gay, according to the world's first museum exhibition about homosexuality among animals.

With documentation of gay or lesbian behaviour among giraffes, penguins, parrots, beetles, whales and dozens of other creatures, the Oslo Natural History Museum concludes human homosexuality cannot be viewed as "unnatural".

"We may have opinions on a lot of things, but one thing is clear - homosexuality is found throughout the animal kingdom, it is not against nature," an exhibit statement said.

Geir Soeli, the project leader of the exhibition entitled "Against Nature", told Reuters: "Homosexuality has been observed for more than 1,500 animal species, and is well documented for 500 of them."

The museum said the exhibition, opening on Thursday despite condemnation from some Christians, was the first in the world on the subject. Soeli said a Dutch zoo had once organised tours to view homosexual couples among the animals.

"The sexual urge is strong in all animals. ... It's a part of life, it's fun to have sex," Soeli said of the reasons for homosexuality or bisexuality among animals.

One exhibit shows two stuffed female swans on a nest - birds sometimes raise young in homosexual couples, either after a female has forsaken a male mate or donated an egg to a pair of males.

One photograph shows two giant erect penises flailing above the water as two male right whales rub together. Another shows a male giraffe mounting another for sex, another describes homosexuality among beetles.

One radical Christian said organisers of the exhibition - partly funded by the Norwegian government - should "burn in hell", Soeli said. Laws describing homosexuality as a "crime against nature" are still on the statutes in some countries.

Greek philosopher Aristotle noted apparent homosexual behaviour among hyenas 2,300 years ago but evidence of animal homosexuality has often been ignored by researchers, perhaps because of distaste, lack of interest or fear or ridicule.

Bonobos, a type of chimpanzee, are among extremes in having sex with either males or females, apparently as part of social bonding. "Bonobos are bisexuals, all of them," Soeli said.

Still, it is unclear why homosexuality survives since it seems a genetic dead-end.

Among theories, males can sometimes win greater acceptance in a pack by having homosexual contact. That in turn can help their chances of later mating with females, he said.

And a study of homosexual men in Italy suggested that their mothers and sisters had more offspring. "The same genes that give homosexuality in men could give higher fertility among women," he said.

[Superhuman]

We got into this in another thread. Homosexuality does exist in nature. If it exist throughout the animal kindom as well as humans then it is natural.

Monkeys have been known to eat their own poop, so does that mean it's natural for us to eat our own poop, too? Many animals eat their own young, does that mean if I do it it's natural?


...again, I'm not attacking homosexuality, this should be a harmless debate.

[Carlos_E]

Monkeys have been known to eat their own poop, so does that mean it's natural for us to eat our own poop, too? Many animals eat their own young, does that mean if I do it it's natural?


...again, I'm not attacking homosexuality, this should be a harmless debate.

You guys crack me up with this response. First you say animals are here to procreate therefore being gay is not natural. When we point out that homosexuality exist in nature you got to the "should we do what animals do." I can use the same argument. Animals have sex and procreate but they also eat their shit so should we do what they do.

You can't have it both ways. Either it exist in nature or it doesn't. Eating shit is irrelevant.

[Superhuman]

You can't have it both ways. Either it exist in nature or it doesn't. Eating shit is irrelevant.

HAHAHAH that made me bust out lau***ng

on a side not, I kinda feel like pissing on a fire hydrant today... you think I will get in trouble. I'll say that dogs do it so it's okay lol

[Carlos_E]

HAHAHAH that made me bust out lau***ng

on a side not, I kinda feel like pissing on a fire hydrant today... you think I will get in trouble. I'll say that dogs do it so it's okay lol

Knock yourself out. Just don't pee into the wind.

[Bojangles69]

Ok since the discussion had spread to other species now lmao when we started with transgender than went to homosexuality than pedophiles now animals that are gay.. and even animals that eat thier own shit.

I was holding back on a post I read a while ago on the net but I figure since its not mine no one can attack me. But it covers ALL life forms in general and is a really short and brief explanation for all these "disorders" or w/e label suits your reality best. Again all attitudes, opinions, and words expressed within this post are NOT mine, I just want to see what people think about it...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd offer a lengthy answer here, but suffice it to say, evolution is not a perfect machine. Mutations, aberrations, gross failures, and anomalies crop up from time to time in the generation of an ecosystem's lifeform population. Oftentimes, homosexuality in an individual can be linked to a genetic shortfall in other areas that led to the consequential act of instilling homosexual tendencies in that particular anomaly, such that there would be no chance that the anomaly would pass on these "deformities" to the next generation via procreation. (I know that sounds incredibly fascist, and I don't mean it as such - however, life isn't a "fair and balanced" process like FOX news would have us all believe; just because we'd like to believe that life should operate a certain way does not mean that this is how life ACTUALLY operates.)
That's one theory. Evolution is an exceptionally complex set of ideas, and homosexuality is a cosmically-irrelevant subset of those ideas. Just as the VAH was backwards-engineered from real-life experiences on Mystery's part, The Origin of Species was backwards-engineered from careful observation of the life process in the real world and its mechanisms, i.e the drive for self-survival and the importance of eventual extinction of bloated species, the ecosystemic influences upon existing lifeforms and vice-versa (the continual adaption to ever-changing environmental stimuli and the converse), and the unconcscious process of "survival of the fittest".
Life has a way of balancing out imbalances: for example, guys with a huge penis are often short in other areas (personality, intelligence, looks, etc.) Homosexuality is one of those checkpoints to balance the equation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Superhuman]

Life has a way of balancing out imbalances: for example, guys with a huge penis are often short in other areas (personality, intelligence, looks, etc.) Homosexuality is one of those checkpoints to balance the equation.[/

So I guess I'm an anomoly in that I have a great personality, amazing looks, supreme intelligence, and a large penis?

Seriously though, what this guy (or girl) is saying is that a person will become gay because their other traits are too advanced?? So, say Carlos has an awesome personality, above-average looks, and a 14-inch penis.... that's why he is gay... as a form of checks and balances? This theory is crazy. If that were the case, then every moron I meet should look like a model and be well-endowed... and every genius I meet should be ugly.......

hmmm.... there may be something to this. Most smart people ARE ugly... and most hot people ARE stupid! By God this person it right! j/k

[Bojangles69]

Yeh good point, I think he meant though by "the equation" EVERY possibly characteristic/trait you can possibly think of that embodies a single person.

So if someones short genetically in one area its not always going to be that obvious what they have an advantage in. I'm not sure exactly what he meant, I just think he was saying its a way evolution balances itself out because its not a perfect process and sometimes veers off course and needs to correct itself.. I really don't know.
Seems like the more I read the more I think everyone is full of shit but at the same time some people *appear like they know what they're talking about.

[Superhuman]

some people *appear like they know what they're talking about.

YES, and lots of people are very good at that... look at Bush for example... oh wait he is a bad example... how did he get elected again? Not only does he not know what he is talking about, but he doesn't even appear to know what he's talking about. We need to boycott electronic voting (I know I just hijacked the thread, sorry)

[Tapout]

Carlos--I have to admit that I had no idea there was so much homosexuality in the animal world and kind of makes me rethink what I posted earlier--even though I do belive the main reason for differences in the male/female species is procreation and that is an animals goal -it does make me think
how in the hell do you find this kind of info

and I will also state that I was getting worried about my pets as my female dog is always mounting/humping my female cat while the male dog looks on--it did have me worried and I was about to put them on Jerry Springer but now I guess its ok

[Bojangles69]

Theres a species of birds where the only way the female bird will have sex with the male bird is if he brings her food. And he mates with the female as she eats the food, if he doesn't give her enough food and doesn't finish when she's done eating she kicks him off and he cant complete the ritual.
Its ALWAYS the same ritual for this species so scientists have concluded that even birds engage in "prostitution".
If the male has no food for the female, he will never mate with her.
I guess this is also a good genetic way the female tests the male to see if he will be of use when the eggs hatch and the babies need to be fed every 15 mins.
I thought that was pretty cool too when I read it a while back.

[BigLittleTim]

I think what we are coming up against, throughout this thread, is the old, old idea of the "Law of Nature".

In pre-Christian Europe, the physically romantic friendship, "Philia", between two boys was regarded not only as a means of obtaining "virtue" (ie: "That which benefits a man"), but was elevated to being a virtue in and of itself, by Socrates.

Homesexuality was regarded not as a perversion of another's healthy nature, or another's nature turned to sin, but as a healthy nature in its own right. It is right for the heterosexual to persue his natural inclination towards women; as it is right for the homosexual to persue his natural inclination for others like himself.

What complicated things, at least for those of us who are heirs of the Western Tradition, is what use the early Christian fathers made of Greek philosophy. Saint Augustine tells us that sex between two men cannot lead to the creation of a baby, and thus being purposeless (excepting the pleasure it affords the practitioners) is aginst the will of a purposeful God.

Augustine also confessed that: "I have poluted the vein of friendship with the filth of desire." , a thought that would have been unintelligible to the Ancients for whom friendship and physical desire were congenial bed-mates (so to speak. )

(I don't know if this is bordering on Religious talk. I'm regarding it as just straight European History.)


In short:

Socrates said something, that Augustine got wrong, that Aquinas codified into law.

This has been the basis, thoughout history, for every argument against what the majority considers "un-natural".

The trans-sexual's nature is that of a woman in a man's body, or that of a man in a woman's body. This is not a perversion of a "natural" man's or woman's nature, but a true expression of that individual's own nature. In the past, such individuals have expressed their nature by dressing, acting, and identifying as a member of the oposite sex. Today surgeries are available to give them an exterior nature that matches their interior nature.

Being a gay man, I cannot judge what it would feel like to posess an heterosexual nature, just as I cannot judge what it must be like to feel trans-gendered, but I do not doubt that such natures exist and are right and "natural" in themselves.


Here endeth the lesson!

-BigLittleTim

[Carlos_E]

Being a gay man, I cannot judge what it would feel like to posess an heterosexual nature

I agree with this point. As a gay man, I can't tell you what it's like to be straight. But it amazes me straight people think they can tell me how, why and what it's like to be gay like they're the authority on the subject.

[tinyguy2]

ya man, I didnt mean to like preach down at you or anything like that....ya know how it is, online things can get taken the wrong way...


All I was saying is if you actually know a gay man, you might realize that it really isnt a choice

no i realize it isn't a choice at all i am jsut saying in a way it is a disorder nothing wrong with it though. i am gay friends black white spanish i don't care what you are as long as you are a good person who is real with me.

[IronReload04]

Ok since the discussion had spread to other species now lmao when we started with transgender than went to homosexuality than pedophiles now animals that are gay.. and even animals that eat thier own shit.

I was holding back on a post I read a while ago on the net but I figure since its not mine no one can attack me. But it covers ALL life forms in general and is a really short and brief explanation for all these "disorders" or w/e label suits your reality best. Again all attitudes, opinions, and words expressed within this post are NOT mine, I just want to see what people think about it...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd offer a lengthy answer here, but suffice it to say, evolution is not a perfect machine. Mutations, aberrations, gross failures, and anomalies crop up from time to time in the generation of an ecosystem's lifeform population. Oftentimes, homosexuality in an individual can be linked to a genetic shortfall in other areas that led to the consequential act of instilling homosexual tendencies in that particular anomaly, such that there would be no chance that the anomaly would pass on these "deformities" to the next generation via procreation. (I know that sounds incredibly fascist, and I don't mean it as such - however, life isn't a "fair and balanced" process like FOX news would have us all believe; just because we'd like to believe that life should operate a certain way does not mean that this is how life ACTUALLY operates.)
That's one theory. Evolution is an exceptionally complex set of ideas, and homosexuality is a cosmically-irrelevant subset of those ideas. Just as the VAH was backwards-engineered from real-life experiences on Mystery's part, The Origin of Species was backwards-engineered from careful observation of the life process in the real world and its mechanisms, i.e the drive for self-survival and the importance of eventual extinction of bloated species, the ecosystemic influences upon existing lifeforms and vice-versa (the continual adaption to ever-changing environmental stimuli and the converse), and the unconcscious process of "survival of the fittest".
Life has a way of balancing out imbalances: for example, guys with a huge penis are often short in other areas (personality, intelligence, looks, etc.) Homosexuality is one of those checkpoints to balance the equation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

this is a good discussion question, so i am not talking out at you bo, just giving my opinion


Ok, show some genetic shortfalls. I really really any kind of evidence that could support this hypothesis


But ya, DNA replication is in no way perfect....We need to just accept that some of the time things get mumbojumbled up during creation.

[Carlos_E]

no i realize it isn't a choice at all i am jsut saying in a way it is a disorder nothing wrong with it though. i am gay friends black white spanish i don't care what you are as long as you are a good person who is real with me.

Are you trying to tell us something?

[Bojangles69]

I think he's saying he is gay.
And than he went on to say it doesnt matter if your black, white or spanish as long as your "real with him" he will engage in heavy homosexual activity with you. Or thats just what I got from it.
People really do need to use commas when they type and reread thier posts cause it was def a little confusing to read.

[Tapout]

Bo look what you started--I hope you are happy with yourself

[Tapout]

PS-- I am happy with you --this has been interesting

[Bojangles69]

LMAO!! "interesting" to say the least =]

[Property of Steroid.com]

I personally am hetero, but I major in psychology.

Where in NJ do you go to school? Seton Hall, Montclaire, Rutgers, etc...? I'm asking because I spend a lot of time on those campus'...

[WEBB]

Where in NJ do you go to school? Seton Hall, Montclaire, Rutgers, etc...? I'm asking because I spend a lot of time on those campus'...

I think Bo is hetro AR, so i dont know if you got a chance hooking up with him...LOL....

[Property of Steroid.com]

I think Bo is hetro AR, so i dont know if you got a chance hooking up with him...LOL....

You must have me mistaken for a guy who enjoys oiling myself up in speedos with other men and flexing. I'm not a bodybuilder/gay.

[Superhuman]

You must have me mistaken for a guy who enjoys oiling myself up in speedos with other men and flexing. I'm not a bodybuilder/gay.

...............

[BigLittleTim]

You must have me mistaken for a guy who enjoys oiling myself up in speedos with other men and flexing. I'm not a bodybuilder/gay.

I am gay, and would look ridiculous if I oiled myself up in speedos with other men and flexed.

-BigLittleTim

[Carlos_E]

I am gay, and would look ridiculous if I oiled myself up in speedos with other men and flexed.

-BigLittleTim

Lose the speedos and you won't look ridiculous.

[K.Biz]

oh god this thread is out of control

I wont comment on this subject, but I will mention a few things

1. I have nothing against gay people, My BEST friend is gay, and is by far one of the coolest kids I have ever met. If you feel that "being gay" is "un-natrual" or not in nature, thats a bunch of bull, and your homophobic.

2. The refrence to "monkeys eat shit" was retarded. we could go on and on and list 1000's perhaps millions of things that animals do that we do not, because firstly the range of our minds is greater. We have learned that eating shit will lead to us becoming sick, and its tastes bad. We dont eat our children because we feel compassion for our young. Not that other animals dont, but i feel like Humans as a species look at its children a little differently then say a monkey, mostly because of our thought process.

3. Oiling yourself up and flexing with a bunch of men in speedo's is by far the most heterosexual thing you can do, and is not rediculous by any means

Thats it! Im done!

[Bojangles69]

Where in NJ do you go to school? Seton Hall, Montclaire, Rutgers, etc...? I'm asking because I spend a lot of time on those campus'...

Monmouth University. Do you run seminars or something? or just hit on all the female frosh? =] jk, but seriously you should stop by, Monmouth has a LOVELY campus, very nice to walk around and just enjoy the scenery (which includes some of the finest clam you will find in the state. And by clam I dont mean the shellfish )

[Bojangles69]

oh god this thread is out of control

I wont comment on this subject, but I will mention a few things

1. I have nothing against gay people, My BEST friend is gay, and is by far one of the coolest kids I have ever met. If you feel that "being gay" is "un-natrual" or not in nature, thats a bunch of bull, and your homophobic.

2. The refrence to "monkeys eat shit" was retarded. we could go on and on and list 1000's perhaps millions of things that animals do that we do not, because firstly the range of our minds is greater. We have learned that eating shit will lead to us becoming sick, and its tastes bad. We dont eat our children because we feel compassion for our young. Not that other animals dont, but i feel like Humans as a species look at its children a little differently then say a monkey, mostly because of our thought process.

3. Oiling yourself up and flexing with a bunch of men in speedo's is by far the most heterosexual thing you can do, and is not rediculous by any means

Thats it! Im done!

You owe me new draws for #3 asshole

And I completely agree with #1, and instead of saying "one of" my bestfriends, he actually IS my bestfriend.
My old bestfriend was straight and once he got a gf (that **I** hooked him up with) we don't talk like we use to. But yeh its weird because even though hes gay we act, talk, crack jokes, and think 99% the same. The other 1% accounting for the obvious lol.
But we just get along and we always have a shitload of fun together.

[king6]

i think homosexuality is a mental disorder. animals are not supposed to have sex with the same sex. we are here to reproduce not have buttsecks. but who cares if it is a mental disorder. anxeity is a mental disoreder who i have it **** it

Can't really compare animals with humans. Animals are driven by the very basic of all needs. Eat, sleep, reproduce. Humans are far more complex, of course we are, we can drive cars. Humans need the basic needs too, but other needs are as follows, "Belonging", "Ego-Status", and "self-aculization". You psych majors can correct me if I am wrong on this.

[Tapout]

oh god this thread is out of control

I wont comment on this subject, but I will mention a few things

1. I have nothing against gay people, My BEST friend is gay, and is by far one of the coolest kids I have ever met. If you feel that "being gay" is "un-natrual" or not in nature, thats a bunch of bull, and your homophobic.

2. The refrence to "monkeys eat shit" was retarded. we could go on and on and list 1000's perhaps millions of things that animals do that we do not, because firstly the range of our minds is greater. We have learned that eating shit will lead to us becoming sick, and its tastes bad. We dont eat our children because we feel compassion for our young. Not that other animals dont, but i feel like Humans as a species look at its children a little differently then say a monkey, mostly because of our thought process.

3. Oiling yourself up and flexing with a bunch of men in speedo's is by far the most heterosexual thing you can do, and is not rediculous by any means

Thats it! Im done!

and list 1000's perhaps millions of things that animals do that we do not, because firstly the range of our minds is greater---its not that our mind is great its that we cant reach our own balls to lick them--if we could most of us would not leave the house