Help get Michael Vick suspended from the NFL.

[305GUY]

point is Vick and his crew didnt just fight some pits, and they didnt just take the injured dogs outback and shoot them with a 22. They f*cking slammed some of these dogs to death on the ground, they soaked others in water and then electrocuted them. You better believe they let these fights go on and on for hours until one of the dogs died. They didnt stop it as soon as one of the dogs turned away from the other, or if one of them was too injured to fight. These motherf*ckers were barbaric the way the treated these animals, and an example needs to be made of them to steer others away from ever doing this or who are currently participating in it.

Who gives a fack if i eat beef or chicken? If the Feds find that costco got their meat in some cruel way, i'll just stop buying my meat from them, and hope that those responsible will be brought to justice just like Vick will..

Im not saying stone Vick to death (although id love for him to feel even a fraction of the pain those dogs felt).. im just saying i hope the F*CKER DOES TIME IN PRISON and NEVER MAKES ANOTHER DIME OFF THE NFL for these acts that he and/or his crew took part in.. An example needs to be made of him for others see. The thread starter wanted him banned from the NFL and i agree 110%.. BAN HIM NOW!

[king6]

For someone in here to call him a "Criminal", while ordering illegal substances from an UL, is pretty hypocritical (IMO).

So do you put rapists and people who don't pay income tax in the same boat? You say we are hypocrites? I say you are crazy. If you want to get technical about it, everyone in the USA is a criminal. Anyone who has ever traveled over the speed limit, or drank underage is a criminal.

[Mogamedogz]

^^ Giants11 is absolutely correct, and it doesn’t stop at JUST live stock.

Some Greyhound breeders euthanize dogs that don’t perform up to standard... as do some breeders of hunting dogs, herding dogs, etc. Even some show dog enthusiasts DROWN PUPS that are born with flaws which will prevent them from making it to the show ring!!

Selective "culling", is part of breeding animals for ANY purpose.

Granted, the way Vick is accused of doing it is inhuman and completely despicable, but none the less, it is common practice for animal breeders to euthanize their own stock. It amazes me that so many people are treating this like the guy murdered a child or something, and he hasn’t even been ARRAINED YET!

Maybe I am a little desensitized because of how I was raised.... but I just don’t think animal fighting ALLEGATIONS should carry the death penalty without trial!! I’m sorry... people are reacting just a little too fanatical for my liking. Too much "Mob Mentality" surrounding this thing. Allot of HATE for Vick (IMO), which goes further than JUST the animal abuse.

I hear nobody saying "Save the dogs"... Just people saying "Get Vick!!"

[Mogamedogz]

So do you put rapists and people who don't pay income tax in the same boat? You say we are hypocrites? I say you are crazy. If you want to get technical about it, everyone in the USA is a criminal. Anyone who has ever traveled over the speed limit, or drank underage is a criminal.

You may have missed it above... but I clarified my position. I’m not comparing the severity of the crimes... (Obviously animal fighting is much worse than Steroid abuse ), im just saying that one is "no more illegal" than the other. So to call someone else a criminal (who has never even been convicted of crime that we know of YET), while buying illegal Steroids yourself.... is hypocritical.

One is "morally" more wrong than the other... but both are "Felony Crimes".

Look, I said it before... Animal fighting affects my life more so than just about anyone on these forums. I LOVE APBT's more than just about anything on this planet outside of my HUMAN family... But im not ready to condemn Vick to death just yet.

I think he deserves a fair trial by jury, just like anyone else.

[king6]

Granted, the way Vick is accused of doing it is inhuman and completely despicable, but none the less, it is common practice for animal breeders to euthanize their own stock.

I don't see how you can compare the two. It makes it seem like you are saying because breeders euthanize their own, it should be ok for Vick to do what he did. And Euthanizing is over in an instatnt. He made the dogs fight to the death, a painful way to die. And the ones that did not die, he starved, and treated them with electroshock, to make them fight meaner. Once again apples and oranges.

[odix]

whoever thinks he had nothing to do with this and should not be punished is a ****ing idiot. IDIOT. This guy is a piece of shit draw the line between dog and animal **** off my dog is more loyal then any human that ever walked the earth vick and whoever else was involved needs to go to jail. Or better yet lets put Vick and one of his dogs he raised in a ****ing cage to the death. I bet vick loses.

[l2elapse]

this arguement will not get truly resolved until the case gets solved

[Mogamedogz]

this arguement will not get truly resolved until the case gets solved

My point exactly... The problem is that people want to just disregard the legal process and go ahead and put him on death row. We can just go around persecuting people because we THINK that they did stuff. That's what our justice system is in place for.

[king6]

Let's just all agree to disagree.

[takedownII]

Like I said I understand that dogs are man's best friend. But anyone who thinks this kind of treatment is acceptable while dog fighting is somehow different and "more" brutal, if one can even compare which offense is worse. But there is some blatant hypocrisy going down here.

Giants, the cows and chickens are being killed for a purpose, to be eaten.

the dogs are being killed for entertainment reasons. fu** that, there is no reason for this. rent a video game if you need something to do......

there IS a huge difference between the two, they can't even be compared bro!

tkdwnII

[Hoggage_54]

SI is reporting that Vick is being asked from the NFL to stay out of training camp... good on their part.

[Logan13]

He has not even been found guilty yet... You people are OUT OF CONTROL with this stuff! How about a petition to bring our Troops home??

Dog fighting NEGETIVELY IMPACTS MY LIFE more so than just about any other person on these forums… I can almost guarantee that as a fact.

Yet I don’t want to see this thing turned into a “burning at the stake”. These crimes are being vilified by the general public and media, with the same tenacity, as if they were running a "child molesting ring"!!

As much as I LOVE dogs, I think there has to be some line drawn between Man and Beast. THEY ARE NOT PEOPLE!!! As much as these HSUS and PETA "Looney Toons" would like for them to be... it just isn’t so.

BTW: Maybe some of these reporters should ask the HUMANIACS at PETA (while they are marching in front of the NFL office today) how many Pit Bulls their organization is responsible for KILLING over the past year (based on complete ignorance), puppies included. I assure you, the number is staggering. They should change their name to People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (except Pit Bull’s). They are attention whoah's, who use dispicable situations like this to help keep their pockets fat, and their Whack Job operation growing.

If you all REALLY want to help out… donate to “NO KILL” shelters; particularly those which rescue APBT’s (American Pit Bull Terriers), and not PETA or HSUS. If you cant find any, email me, and I will send you a complete list of them. Stop talking the talk, and walk the walk!

Poor Michael Vick, another victim of the System.......

[Logan13]

You may have missed it above... but I clarified my position. I’m not comparing the severity of the crimes... (Obviously animal fighting is much worse than Steroid abuse ), im just saying that one is "no more illegal" than the other. So to call someone else a criminal (who has never even been convicted of crime that we know of YET), while buying illegal Steroids yourself.... is hypocritical.

One is "morally" more wrong than the other... but both are "Felony Crimes".

Look, I said it before... Animal fighting affects my life more so than just about anyone on these forums. I LOVE APBT's more than just about anything on this planet outside of my HUMAN family... But im not ready to condemn Vick to death just yet.

I think he deserves a fair trial by jury, just like anyone else.

How's immoral grab ya? Wrong is wrong, no matter how you try to spin it. It is hilarious how your view of the legal system changes depending on who has been indicted.......

[Hoggage_54]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html

[Logan13]

I'm with Mogamedogz on this one.

I think it's disgusting and he is "most likely" guilty. BUT....Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. PETA is jumping on the publicity bandwagon. The guy has not been convicted of anything, so until then. Everyone should reserve judgment, if it was you I'm sure you'd want the same treatment.

The other thing that make me laugh in this case is how people are so quick to Kill Vick on this matter. Yet they just came back from the grocery store, with their Chicken and Beef. Dog's somehow get preferential treatment in the animal world. The inhumane treatment of Cows and Chickens somehow get overlooked, when in all reality their treatment may be worse than fighting dogs. I totally understand that Dogs are man's best friend and I think that dog fighting is awful. But I did have to take a look at the my own hypocrisy when I choose what animals "should" be treated well and which ones deserve to suffer.

People are so quick to judge on this because of what Vick has done in the past. Vick made his own bed....

[Hoggage_54]

He should be suspended. When teachers, police officers, politicians, military, business execs, doctors, etc. get in shit, they are usually suspended with or without pay until matters are resolved. Why should he be treated any differently? He calls himself a professional, he should act like one.

[Mogamedogz]

How's immoral grab ya? Wrong is wrong, no matter how you try to spin it. It is hilarious how your view of the legal system changes depending on who has been indicted.......

If you bothered to read all of my post's (before chiming in with your ignorant comments), you would have realized just how foolish you sound. I’m not trying to "spin" anything.

I "Personally" don’t like Mike Vick. I "Personally" think HE DID IT.

However, I also feel (strongly) that EVERYONE is entitled to a fair trial. THAT is an opinion which NEVER waivers.

But why am I even explaining it to you? You are “KING FANATICAL” himself.

[Logan13]

If you bothered to read all of my post's (before chiming in with your ignorant comments), you would have realized just how foolish you sound. I’m not trying to "spin" anything.

I "Personally" don’t like Mike Vick. I "Personally" think HE DID IT.

However, I also feel (strongly) that EVERYONE is entitled to a fair trial. THAT is an opinion which NEVER waivers.

But why am I even explaining it to you? You are “KING FANATICAL” himself.

Your the one who donated an 8 paragraph diatribe to the thread. If I am fanatical about it fine, at least I can say that I got my point across in only one paragraph..........

[Mogamedogz]

Your the one who donated an 8 paragraph diatribe to the thread. If I am fanatical about it fine, at least I can say that I got my point across in only one paragraph..........

What point was that exactly?

[abstrack]

However, I also feel (strongly) that EVERYONE is entitled to a fair trial.

I wonder if those poor dogs were given a fair trial of life? i wonder when he was fighting them and training them to fight if those dogs were given a choice to be non-agressive or agressive.

I even wonder if those dogs were given a fair trial when they lost a fight?

[abstrack]

Sounds like you got it all figured out. Why bother even having a trial? They should string him up on the 50 yrd line during the Super Bowl half-time show, and we can all stone him. Just like we should have done to the Duke Lacrosse team.... oh wait..

NEWSFLASH... this is NOT a third world country. In this country (thankfully) we ALL have the right to a trial. You should be thankful for it too.

No. What we should do is put him in a ring with a vicious killer who has been trained to fight and see how he comes out of the ring. If he looses, then we get to stone him to death and burry him at the 50yrd line in a commerative ceromony for the great QB he was. If the stoning doesnt work, then we put his jaw on the curn like in American History X and mush his head in with our boots, then give him a ceromony for being the great QB he was.

[abstrack]

No. What we should do is put him in a ring with a vicious killer who has been trained to fight and see how he comes out of the ring. If he looses, then we get to stone him to death and burry him at the 50yrd line in a commerative ceromony for the great QB he was. If the stoning doesnt work, then we put his jaw on the curn like in American History X and mush his head in with our boots, then give him a ceromony for being the great QB he was.

How about that? Is that fair enough for you?

[305GUY]

No. What we should do is put him in a ring with a vicious killer who has been trained to fight and see how he comes out of the ring. If he looses, then we get to stone him to death and burry him at the 50yrd line in a commerative ceromony for the great QB he was. If the stoning doesnt work, then we put his jaw on the curn like in American History X and mush his head in with our boots, then give him a ceromony for being the great QB he was.

LMAO.. I like your style.. but since we cant curb stomp his ass lets just hope he spends at least a year in prison. Hopefully someone will make Vick their bitch and rape his ass.. lol

[pepperoni]

I wonder if those poor dogs were given a fair trial of life? i wonder when he was fighting them and training them to fight if those dogs were given a choice to be non-agressive or agressive.

I even wonder if those dogs were given a fair trial when they lost a fight?

the dogs dont have the ability to make decisions or understand what "fair" even is. I just dont get how it can be compared.

regardless I am sure he is guilty and should be punished accordingly.... but I dont think the NFL should have anything to do with it. what the players do in their personal life shouldnt determine whether or not they r allowed to play a sport. its like a couple years back or whenever it was that Roethlisberger was in the motorcycle accident and they were talking about banning players from riding them, I dont think the nfl should be able to punish players unless its for something they do related to the nfl.

[Mogamedogz]

I wonder if those poor dogs were given a fair trial of life? i wonder when he was fighting them and training them to fight if those dogs were given a choice to be non-agressive or agressive.

I even wonder if those dogs were given a fair trial when they lost a fight?

You’re speaking in theory again... It sounds all good and well (and very compassionate) I GET IT!

So what do you suggest happen?? Do we rip up the constitution in this particular case, and just punish him without the chance to defend the charges; just because he is ACCUSED of committing these HORRIBLE crimes??

Should we also start giving dogs the same rights as human beings? Maybe we should bring some of his dogs in to testify against him in court… One woof he did it, two woofs if he wasn’t involved.

Seriously… where is the line bro?? Think about what your saying. You want to lock this guy up, and throw away the key, without a trial. How civilized is that?

[Mogamedogz]

If the stoning doesnt work, then we put his jaw on the curn like in American History X and mush his head in with our boots...

Pretty odd scene selection to pop in your head... Sounds like you have deeper issues with Mike Vick, than JUST his Animal Abuse indictment. JMO.

Question... Since you are apparently so passionate about animals... why don’t you share with us how much volunteer work you have put in towards the "cause" (to help combat animal fighting)??

[abstrack]

the dogs dont have the ability to make decisions or understand what "fair" even is. I just dont get how it can be compared.

regardless I am sure he is guilty and should be punished accordingly.... but I dont think the NFL should have anything to do with it. what the players do in their personal life shouldnt determine whether or not they r allowed to play a sport. its like a couple years back or whenever it was that Roethlisberger was in the motorcycle accident and they were talking about banning players from riding them, I dont think the nfl should be able to punish players unless its for something they do related to the nfl.

Do you understand what fair is?

Pete Rose...Gambling was in his personal life. Did he get dealt with by the baseball commision for gambeling on baseball games? May be we should take back what we did to Pete Rose.

[pepperoni]

Do you understand what fair is?

Pete Rose...Gambling was in his personal life. Did he get dealt with by the baseball commision for gambeling on baseball games? May be we should take back what we did to Pete Rose.

I sure hope I understand, or im pretty stupid.

and I really have no idea if he got dealt with by the commission to be honest. Im not sure of the full story. I also dont know who u are talking about when u say "we"

[abstrack]

[b]

Pretty odd scene selection to pop in your head... Sounds like you have deeper issues with Mike Vick, than JUST his Animal Abuse indictment. JMO.

Question... Since you are apparently so passionate about animals... why don’t you share with us how much volunteer work you have put in towards the "cause" (to help combat animal fighting)??

Why dont you just say it, instead of dancing around the topic like a late night pick up date. Anybody that knows me on this board and any board for all that it matters, knows I am far from racial. lets stick to the topic or take some ritalin to stay focused.

So now I have to put in X amount of hours with volunteers work to make a valid point on how this guy is a shit heel or to have any kind of validity with you. please. Throw in your next bone mary poppins, because that one was just rediculous.


The guy is a disgrace to the NFL and far from a roll model for young children who look up to NFL stars as ambitions for their future.

On a second note the guy is a disgrace to humanity. Any person who would lack the respect for life and treat an animal like that is just a shit heal and should be treated the same way as those animals.

Do on to others as you would want done to you.

[Mogamedogz]

Do on to others as you would want done to you.

Take your own advice... I’m done arguing with you. I’m not a Vick supporter. I’m a supporter of JUSTICE FOR ALL.

If Vick is found guilty... than I hope justice will be served accordingly, and he is made example of.

NOT by kicking his head on a curb, not by stoning him, not by sending him to death row... but by sentencing him to the maximum allowable punishment for the crimes he committed. NUFCED.

[abstrack]

I’m a supporter of JUSTICE FOR ALL.

Except for animals, since their not human.

[Mogamedogz]

Except for animals, since their not human.

Dude... My wife and I run a small APBT rescue league on OUR OWN DIME!!! You are barking up the WRONG tree with that shit. I do more for the well being of dogs than just about anyone in this thread (I would bet).

Dog Fighting effects my every waking moment. I have a RESCUED fighting dog laying at my feet as im typing this. Three more in the Kennel run outside the window to my left (all sleeping cozy in their dog houses).

I have 2 more at my other house. One just recently rescued, who I have in quaretine, and am treating for a Sarcoptic Mange problem. It requires Ivermec shots 0.1 cc per 10 lbs body weight once a week over the course of six to eight weeks until all cleared. And numerous other cleansing methods, that have to be repeated every few days.

...oh yeah. And as much as I LOVE my dogs. NO, they are NOT humans. But it doesnt mean I dont love them like they are.

[abstrack]

My bad St. Francis of Assisi

[Mogamedogz]

My bad St. Francis of Assisi

Real mature of you pal. You get checked on your FALSE ASSUMPTION, so you fall back on trying to belittle me... classic.

[Giants11]

Hold on here. So you believe that since we "eat" Chickens and Cows. They are somehow less of an animal than dogs? That they deserve to suffer?

I'm not sure I understand your logic, some are being tortured and killed for entertainment and some or being tortured and killed for food but you can justify the fact the we eat them to make their torture acceptable?

Shit bro, you do not need to treat animals the way we do because you eat them. There are are alternatives to pain and suffering.

Giants, the cows and chickens are being killed for a purpose, to be eaten.

the dogs are being killed for entertainment reasons. fu** that, there is no reason for this. rent a video game if you need something to do......

there IS a huge difference between the two, they can't even be compared bro!

tkdwnII

[Giants11]

Except for animals, since their not human.

I do not understand at how you arrive at that conclusion. The guys said numerous time he finds animal abuse to be very wrong. He just want a trial to PROVE that Vick in guilty. Honestly, how can anyone argue with that?

Why does this one man not deserve due process like everyone else. If anyone on here is saying that Vick is guilty is ALL speculation as they have no insight into the facts of the case as they haven't even been released. I mean, I think the guy is guilty but that in my opinion and I'll wait to hear the verdict before condemning the guy.

[RA]

Ok, so lets endorse dog fighting

Thats basically where your argument leads.

Yeah Cow's don't bite each other to death, true.

Excerpts from a Washington Post article:


Under a 23-year-old federal law, slaughtered cattle and hogs first must be “stunned” — rendered insensible to pain — with a blow to the head or an electric shock. But at overtaxed plants, the law is sometimes broken, with cruel consequences for animals as well as workers. Enforcement records, interviews, videos and worker affidavits describe repeated violations of the Humane Slaughter Act at dozens of slaughterhouses, ranging from the smallest, custom butcheries to modern, automated es-tablishments such as the sprawling IBP Inc. plant here where Moreno works.


For example, the government took no action against a Texas beef company that was cited 22 times in 1998 for violations that included chopping hooves off live cattle. In another case, agency supervisors failed to take action on multiple complaints of animal cruelty at a Florida beef plant and fired an animal health technician for reporting the problems. The dismissal letter sent to the technician, Tim Walker, said his dislosure had “irreparably damaged” the agency’s relations with the packing plant.

“I complained to everyone — I said, ‘Lookit, they’re skinning live cows in there,’ “ Walker said. “Always it was the same answer: ‘We know it’s true. But there’s nothing we can do about it.’



One Texas plant, Supreme Beef Packers in Ladonia, had 22 violations in six months. During one inspection, federal officials found nine live cattle dangling from an overhead chain. But managers at the plant, which an-nounced last fall it was ceasing opera-tions, resisted USDA warnings, saying its practices were no different than oth-ers in the industry. “Other plants are not subject to such extensive scrutiny of their stunning activities,” the plant complained in a 1997 letter to the USDA.

Hogs, unlike cattle, are dunked in tanks of hot water after they are stunned to soften the hides for skinning. As a result, a botched slaughter condemns some hogs to being scalded and drowned. Secret videotape from an Iowa pork plant [provided by the Humane Farming Association] shows hogs squealing and kicking as they are being lowered into the water. USDA documents and interviews with inspectors and plant workers attributed many of the problems to poor training, faulty or poorly maintained equipment or excessive production speeds. Those problems were identified five years ago in an industry-wide audit by Temple Grandin, an assistant professor with Colorado State University’s animal sciences department. . . .

Like I said I understand that dogs are man's best friend. But anyone who thinks this kind of treatment is acceptable while dog fighting is somehow different and "more" brutal, if one can even compare which offense is worse. But there is some blatant hypocrisy going down here.

[Giants11]

Ok, so lets endorse dog fighting

Thats basically where your argument leads.

Come on. I don't endorse dog fighting that is ridiculous.

My point is the hypocrisy of condemning Michael Vick for ALLEGEDLY dog fighting. While you just got back from the grocery store with your USDA Choice Ground Beef and Purdue Chicken Breasts. People are so quick to murder this guy, when they don't realize that arguably worse offense's occur everyday, yet you hear nothing.

I think he is guilty, there is no doubt. I think that if convicted, for the crimes he committed he should be locked up for a long time. But I also had to ask myself, do I simply ignore the other cases of animal cruelty and only speak out when a NFL star and Dogs are involved. My answer was yes. So I found myself being a bit hypocritical, that is my point. You condemn one sort of animal cruelty yet on the other hand you support another.

[Flagg]

Come on. I don't endorse dog fighting that is ridiculous.

My point is the hypocrisy of condemning Michael Vick for ALLEGEDLY dog fighting. While you just got back from the grocery store with your USDA Choice Ground Beef and Purdue Chicken Breasts. People are so quick to murder this guy, when they don't realize that arguably worse offense's occur everyday, yet you hear nothing.

I think he is guilty, there is no doubt. I think that if convicted, for the crimes he committed he should be locked up for a long time. But I also had to ask myself, do I simply ignore the other cases of animal cruelty and only speak out when a NFL star and Dogs are involved. My answer was yes. So I found myself being a bit hypocritical, that is my point. You condemn one sort of animal cruelty yet on the other hand you support another.

You are going around in circles with this now.

Like Logan said, he's made his own bed, he's a piece of shit. It's abhorent what he's done to these animals, not to mention the respect he's lost from his fans and the NFL community.

[Giants11]

You are going around in circles with this now.

Like Logan said, he's made his own bed, he's a piece of shit. It's abhorent what he's done to these animals, not to mention the respect he's lost from his fans and the NFL community.

I'm not going around in circles at all, just point out peoples blatant hypocrisy towards animal abuse.

And whether or no he is a piece of shit does not determine his guilt or innocence. No on e is saying he doesn't have to lay in the bed that he made, all anyone was saying is you cannot call him out as guilty, YET. Cause he is not. You do not know if he ever did a damn thing to any animals, because he has not been convicted. I'm not sure how you can convict before a Federal Jury can, but if that's the case perhaps we should throw out our current system and let you judge the guilty from the innocent. Whatever may seem obvious, still needs to be proved. And let it be known I think he did it as well, but I will not make any statements say that he certainly did. I will await the outcome of the trail.