Why Be Straight? (Religion Allowed?)

[PEWN]

Some would say that God is peoples' most creative invention

good point...

[Conservative]

Some would say that God is peoples' most creative invention

People need to stop using religion to justify their bigotry. Throughout history many have attempted to use religion to justify their bigotry, examples included slavery, racism (race superiority), anti-suffrage movement, anti other religions, etc. Let's face the facts, people are who they are and being gay or straight shouldn't dictate how one is treated or what rights they should have.
!

Jesus man, are you a Kennedy? You're one of those guys that believes in doing what feels good, not what is moral. Religion justifying bigotry? When the bible clearly states homesexuality is wrong then preaching the truth is justified, not bigotry.

Keep doing what feels good in life. Keep letting guys not be men. keep giving excuses to everyone. We'll see where our country is in 50 years.

[m8intl]

Some would say that God is peoples' most creative invention

People need to stop using religion to justify their bigotry. Throughout history many have attempted to use religion to justify their bigotry, examples included slavery, racism (race superiority), anti-suffrage movement, anti other religions, etc. Let's face the facts, people are who they are and being gay or straight shouldn't dictate how one is treated or what rights they should have.

With that being said, women smell good even after working out. Nice titties are da bomb, and there is no greater gift given to us by God or by evolution (whatever you believe) than the female *****!! But that's just my opinion. I'm sure our gay members would argue that!

+1 Just because you read it in the bible doesn't make it literal fact.

I'm very attracted to, and love, beautiful women, but it has nothing to do with my religion.

[m8intl]

When the bible clearly states homesexuality is wrong then preaching the truth is justified, not bigotry.

(From the Dr. Laura Letter)

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advise from you, however, regarding some of the specific Bible laws and how to follow them.

a)When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b)I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c)I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d)Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? ......Why can't I own Canadians?

e)I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should this be a neighborhood improvement project?

f)A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g)Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? Would contact lenses help ?

h)Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

i)I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j)My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confidentyou can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

[mavsluva]

(From the Dr. Laura Letter)

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I
have learned a great deal from your radio show, and I try to share that
knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advise from you, however, regarding some of the specific Bible laws and how to follow them.

a)When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They
claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b)I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c)I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d)Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? ......Why can't I own Canadians?

e)I have a neighbor who insists on working on the
Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should this be a neighborhood improvement project?

f)A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g)Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? Would contact lenses help ?

h)Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around
their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

i)I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j)My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confidentyou can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

The author of this letter clearly does not know and understand the grace and glory of God.

[m8intl]

The author of this letter clearly does not know and understand the grace and glory of God.

So one can do anything else forbade by the bible as long as it doesn't involve sex with someone of the same gender? Is that what you're trying to say?

[BgMc31]

Jesus man, are you a Kennedy? You're one of those guys that believes in doing what feels good, not what is moral. Religion justifying bigotry? When the bible clearly states homesexuality is wrong then preaching the truth is justified, not bigotry.

Keep doing what feels good in life. Keep letting guys not be men. keep giving excuses to everyone. We'll see where our country is in 50 years.

Not a Kennedy but an rational man. Saying someone isn't a man because he loves one is bigotry and assinine. And yes people have used the Bible as a basis for bigotry. And like stated above if you going to take this homosexual stuff literally from the bible then you must take everything in the bible literally. Typical religious zealots and their hypocrisy... only using parts of the bible to justify their hatred.

Learn history before you pass judgement. The new testament of the bible was written during the time Roman dominance, everything in the Bible is against the Roman establishment. Romans did what 'felt good' and therefore the writers of the Bible listed everything the Romans did as sin. Remember Jesus never put pen to pad.

Our country will be OK 50, 100, 150, 200 years from now. Jesus preached tolerance and love of all people... including homosexuals. It amazes me that the most Christian of us are the most intolerant, when the religion preaches tolerance.

[Conservative]

(From the Dr. Laura Letter)

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advise from you, however, regarding some of the specific Bible laws and how to follow them.

a)When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b)I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c)I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d)Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? ......Why can't I own Canadians?

e)I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should this be a neighborhood improvement project?

f)A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g)Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? Would contact lenses help ?

h)Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

i)I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j)My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confidentyou can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

You realize this is all from the Old Testament, right? Do you understand the difference between the New Testament and the Old Testament? Apparently not.

[m8intl]

You realize this is all from the Old Testament, right? Do you understand the difference between the New Testament and the Old Testament? Apparently not.

Show me where it says it's a sin to be a homosexual in the new testament. I beg you.

[BgMc31]

You realize this is all from the Old Testament, right? Do you understand the difference between the New Testament and the Old Testament? Apparently not.

So you should follow one not the other? And you do realize that, like I stated earlier, the New Testament was written to oppose the current Roman societal norms. And again, Jesus Christ never put pen to pad and most of the New Testament was written 200 years after his death.

[kfrost06]

Out of one side of the mouth he says love one another and except them then out the other side Christians are intolerant and bigots???

[kfrost06]

Show me where it says it's a sin to be a homosexual in the new testament. I beg you.

Ask and you shall recieve.

Romans 1:26-27

"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

You asked, here it is.

Here's another...

1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

" Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

[Hoggage_54]

Thank God for science!!

[Hoggage_54]

If a man thinks homosexuality is wrong, they clearly haven't seen a lesbian porno... which makes me think they might be

[kfrost06]

If a man thinks homosexuality is wrong, they clearly haven't seen a lesbian porno... which makes me think they might be

Ironic you call someone gay(as if the term is demeaning) in your defense of gays. I have no problem with someones life style choice, as far as I am concerned they are my equal, my problem is with people demeaning my beliefs when they do not agree with their own. Being gay should not mean you have to throw your lifestyle down everyone else throat.

[Titleist]

Being gay should not mean you have to throw your lifestyle down everyone else throat.

End of story.

I don't care who is gay and who is straight. If you're gay, that's your business, I don't want to hear about it, especially not homosexual bedroom antics. Personally I don't understand it, but I don't understand many things in life.

[goose]

culingus takes good,you know what I mean.

[gixxerboy1]

Girls asses arent hairy

[LawMan018]

Who are these radical Christians? I think that is just the new PC term to use for you empty headed liberals. If your referring to people who do not believe in a gay lifestyle then you should include all three major religions including Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. Then again, it is only PC to damn the Christians not the Muslims or Jews. Seriously, start talking about one of those religions and sterotype them and see how fast your liberal friends pounce on you.

I don't know what the hell you're going on about... I'm talking about the radical Christians who think people who read Harry Potter should be damned to Hell (mavsluva) <--- just kidding =), who show up at our troops funerals to say they are in Hell... Now if you're one of these I feel very, very sorry for you. Now you're getting into liberalism... What do you know of God? In the Bible it says women should not speak in church, yet do they? Um... all the ones I've been too. If you're going to follow the Bible word for word you are a fool... The Bible is nothing more then a bunch of stories, cept a few, created by man. Adam and Eve, didn't exist. I'm just going on but who can say they know what God's purpose is? The bible was written by a bunch of sexist men who believed they were better then women... God now is not what God was then... and I'm leaving it at that!

[LawMan018]

It's important to remember that God's purpose in creating us was to fullfill HIS purpose for us during our stay here on Earth. While I understand that you have certain desires and a certain preplanned agenda, He may not really care. Nor will he negotiate with you when your time is due.

That's all I will say. Enjoy the rest of this thread.

Well for one, I'm not a homosexual. I have a few homosexual friends who go to Church and I do not believe God would turn his back on these people. God, of all people, is the most forgiving. And most of these homosexuals I know are far less sinners then the lot of you. Say what you will about God's agenda, you follow a guideline written thousands of years ago... A little outdated are we?

[Big]

I've got a much simpler answer:
I likes girlies, men are icky.

[K.Biz]

Oh god, this got Blown way out of proprtion.

I should have known.......

[BgMc31]

Out of one side of the mouth he says love one another and except them then out the other side Christians are intolerant and bigots???

Kfrost are you saying that I said ALL Christians are intolerant and bigots? C'mon I know you are a Republican Christian Conservative but damn do you have to attempt to spin everything?

Re-read my post!!! I said it's funny how the most Christian of us seem to be the most intolerant while Jesus taught tolerance. What part of that don't you understand?

Also no one is trying to ram their lifestyle down your throat. I guarantee if people stopped trying to justify their hatred of gays and their lifestyle with religion and just let gays be treated equal, you would have never hear much about the so-called gay agenda.

[Kale]

People are God's most creative invention. I highly doubt that He planned on them being gay from the moment that he envisioned their souls.

Mavs you have got to be kidding. According to all of you believers God is all knowing. Surely he new that Man was capable of anything sexually

[Flagg]

Mavs you have got to be kidding. According to all of you believers God is all knowing. Surely he new that Man was capable of anything sexually

Thats right. God is supposedly infaliable, which meant He KNEW what would happen by putting that tree in the Garden of Eden for Eve to discover, which meant He KNEW what we'd be getting upto for the next few thousand years, including people having gay sex. By that estimation God doesnt have the right to be a homophobe or demand people be straight. You could essentially say its His fault.

[Kale]

Thats right. God is supposedly infaliable, which meant He KNEW what would happen by putting that tree in the Garden of Eden for Eve to discover, which meant He KNEW what we'd be getting upto for the next few thousand years, including people having gay sex. By that estimation God doesnt have the right to be a homophobe or demand people be straight. You could essentially say its His fault.

10 out of 10 Brother !!!!!

[Kale]

I love this thread, its just like the old Religion Forum days except that its been civil for two whole pages !!!!

[Logan13]

It just opened, he probably hasn't even seen it yet what the ****???

The gay thread was open for a couple days at least. Stop being so sensitive. Just because you came out of the closet finally doesn't meen you need to try to be over-zealous to the gay cause and rep the whole gay community... and be an asshole

Originally Posted by DSM4Life
So Anthony Roberst closes my thread with this excuse:

"Why be gay? (Is the title of the thread)

But the answer is really "Who cares?"

I don't tell people I like to bang chicks, so why tell me you like to bang dudes unless it comes up?"

But he leaves "the why be straight" thread open. What a hypocrite.
originally posted by DSM4life, post #149 "Why be gay" thread
whatever helps you sleep at night....

Being that religion keeps getting brought up i am requesting that this thread get locked.
I wanted to go ahead and thank most of you guys for being respectful and open minded in this discussion.

I have had a few guys Pm me and if you still want to talk keep it to pms.

Thanks again guys.

You asked that your thread be closed. What the hell, are you medicated or something?

[Logan13]

Our country will be OK 50, 100, 150, 200 years from now. Jesus preached tolerance and love of all people... including homosexuals. It amazes me that the most Christian of us are the most intolerant, when the religion preaches tolerance.

Tolerance to all groups(including religion), not just the one's that YOU like..........

[LawMan018]

Jesus man, are you a Kennedy? You're one of those guys that believes in doing what feels good, not what is moral. Religion justifying bigotry? When the bible clearly states homesexuality is wrong then preaching the truth is justified, not bigotry.

Keep doing what feels good in life. Keep letting guys not be men. keep giving excuses to everyone. We'll see where our country is in 50 years.

Look where our country is now due to conservatives, aka Bush... We don't need to wait 50 years!

[Psychotron]

Thats right. God is supposedly infaliable, which meant He KNEW what would happen by putting that tree in the Garden of Eden for Eve to discover, which meant He KNEW what we'd be getting upto for the next few thousand years, including people having gay sex. By that estimation God doesnt have the right to be a homophobe or demand people be straight. You could essentially say its His fault.

Welcome to my internal struggle with my beliefe. I have meditated on that a lot, I mean when I read Genesis, it seems as if God doesnt even know Eve has eaten from the tree until he talks to Adam. I am not sure I still understand why he created us only to fall from eden. Perhaps one of the other Christian brothers can enlighten this to me.

I think I have given up accepting the Bible as inerrant too. I know blah blah scriptures are God breathed and no prophecy came from the prophet. But how is one to accept it as inerrant when the gospels cant get certain thing in chronological order. Did judas buy the field first then hang himself, or did he kill himself and the priest bought the field. so on and so on. I dont know, it hurts me to doubt it so.

[BgMc31]

Tolerance to all groups(including religion), not just the one's that YOU like..........

Goes both ways...

[Conservative]

Look where our country is now due to conservatives, aka Bush... We don't need to wait 50 years!

Where is our country now? Unemployment? Economy? Unemployment is at a all time low and the economy is ever booming. Oh wait, you must be talking about Iraq....Well I'm sure if John Kerry or Al Gore were in office the Muslim extremist problem would be eradicated and we would all be holding hands singing kum ba yah. Wake up.

[LawMan018]

Where is our country now? Unemployment? Economy? Unemployment is at a all time low and the economy is ever booming. Oh wait, you must be talking about Iraq....Well I'm sure if John Kerry or Al Gore were in office the Muslim extremist problem would be eradicated and we would all be holding hands singing kum ba yah. Wake up.

No... But Iraq would be a stable country and hate for America (extremist terrorist groups, or regular countries) would be far less... = Safer World

[Conservative]

Not a Kennedy but an rational man. Saying someone isn't a man because he loves one is bigotry and assinine. And yes people have used the Bible as a basis for bigotry. And like stated above if you going to take this homosexual stuff literally from the bible then you must take everything in the bible literally. Typical religious zealots and their hypocrisy... only using parts of the bible to justify their hatred.

Learn history before you pass judgement. The new testament of the bible was written during the time Roman dominance, everything in the Bible is against the Roman establishment. Romans did what 'felt good' and therefore the writers of the Bible listed everything the Romans did as sin. Remember Jesus never put pen to pad.

Our country will be OK 50, 100, 150, 200 years from now. Jesus preached tolerance and love of all people... including homosexuals. It amazes me that the most Christian of us are the most intolerant, when the? religion preaches
tolerance.

Hypocrisy? Christians don't pick and choose what they want out of the bible. We live by the New Testament, which clearly states that homosexuality is wrong. Do you want me to quote scriptures?

Jesus did preach tolerance and acceptance and he also gave people the opportunity to turn their lives around and accept Jesus. If you don't then suffer the consequences.

Your Roman argument is comical at best...I could write a novel about how many ways your are wrong! You're talking to a theology major, please stop trying to act like you know what you're talking about, you're embarrassing the other libs.

[Conservative]

No... But Iraq would be a stable country and hate for America (extremist terrorist groups, or regular countries) would be far less... = Safer World

I'm glad you live in a fantasy world.

There are many issues that we need to keep our big American noses out of. I also know if we didn't support Israel so much, then we wouldn't have this Muslim hatred towards us.

What's the answer? Do you think Obama has it? Hillary? Remember they voted to send troops into Iraq too. They were under the same impression that the Bush administration was under. Now they want to cut funding. Ridiculous. Their hands are dirty too, so instead of cutting and running let's finish the job of securing Iraq.

[Flagg]

Welcome to my internal struggle with my beliefe. I have meditated on that a lot, I mean when I read Genesis, it seems as if God doesnt even know Eve has eaten from the tree until he talks to Adam. I am not sure I still understand why he created us only to fall from eden. Perhaps one of the other Christian brothers can enlighten this to me.

I think I have given up accepting the Bible as inerrant too. I know blah blah scriptures are God breathed and no prophecy came from the prophet. But how is one to accept it as inerrant when the gospels cant get certain thing in chronological order. Did judas buy the field first then hang himself, or did he kill himself and the priest bought the field. so on and so on. I dont know, it hurts me to doubt it so.

A couple of weeks back I met an elderly lady, i'd say she would be in her mid to late 70's (she could be older or younger, I don't know) and we were both talking about what a nice day it was and then she started talking about the human race. How she believes it's turned rotten now. She said we have all these free gifts on earth and we don't even realise it. She also told me that she was brought up a christian and has had christian beliefs her whole life but now at this point in her life she is starting to wonder if it's all been a myth. I found that a lil sad and it gave me food for thought, I mean she hasn't stopped believing in her saviour, she's stopped believing He exists. I'm not religious myself but I cant imagine what that must be like for someone to lose faith after such a long time so I wonder if it's the same for you.

[Bruce000]

Welcome to my internal struggle with my beliefe. I have meditated on that a lot, I mean when I read Genesis, it seems as if God doesnt even know Eve has eaten from the tree until he talks to Adam. I am not sure I still understand why he created us only to fall from eden. Perhaps one of the other Christian brothers can enlighten this to me.

I think I have given up accepting the Bible as inerrant too. I know blah blah scriptures are God breathed and no prophecy came from the prophet. But how is one to accept it as inerrant when the gospels cant get certain thing in chronological order. Did judas buy the field first then hang himself, or did he kill himself and the priest bought the field. so on and so on. I dont know, it hurts me to doubt it so.

I know where your coming from Bro. My problem is where God says he is no respecter of persons. But my wife and I have been trying for 9 years to fall pregnant. But He seems to give drug addicts/homeless people and 14 year old girls (just to name a few) children. My wife and I dedicated our lives to him and at one stage were Youth pastors. Needless to say we are no more involved in the ministry. I love Him dearly but cant find a way to wrap my head around this.

[Psychotron]

Well, I am a fairly new believer. And I have come from a background of engineering sciences, and so it is hard for me to just accept things as is. I believe with as much as my sinful heart can in what Christ has done for me and how the Spirit works through people. Where I begin to have my problems is when I am reading scriptures and things don't match up, and my biggest issue like I said is accepting that the Bible as it is today is the full work of God, and that it is free with error. I don't think I accept that, and I don't think someone should. People say if you don't believe it is inerrant you are saying that God is infallable. I disagree, I think by you claiming the scriptures are inerrant you are making God out to be infallable based on false pretenses. In any case, the minor discrepencies in the Bible shouldnt have an effect on the teachings in the Bible.

I have yet to bring these types of conversations up with my Pastor's and other christians I am close to in fear of being rediculed. The response I will likely get is that it is Satan working in me to doubt, and I do believe he does do such things, but this is a bit different, I am not doubting the teachings of Jesus Christ, or the justness of God.

[kfrost06]

Where is our country now? Unemployment? Economy? Unemployment is at a all time low and the economy is ever booming. Oh wait, you must be talking about Iraq....Well I'm sure if John Kerry or Al Gore were in office the Muslim extremist problem would be eradicated and we would all be holding hands singing kum ba yah. Wake up.

Good thread Conservative, again!