The Protein Myth

[IronReload04]

Dude, you are missing the point. If you just took in the necessary complete, liquid aminos, you would probably only need say 50g compared to say 300g+ of pro, so you could maintain or even grow on what would be 1000 calories less in this case. That is what goose is talking about. The guy in the video is correct in his point about our body only needing the aminos from protein is correct, but the sources he is talking about are not. When I say liquid aminos, I dont mean from raw food sources or whatever, I mean properly produced, complete liquid aminos.

There are already people experimenting with exactly this sort of diet. Phil Hernon claims to eat no protein and instead ingests 80g of liquid aminos per day, whether he is telling the truth, who knows. The product he claims to use may not be the answer, but im sure one can certainly be produced, and will one day be produced, that would make meat and whey obsolescent.

well how about this



how fast would liquid amino's absorb? I really have no idea to be honest. but if they are already broken down, and easy to digest, I am guessing they absorb real fast. and here is the problem with amino's that absorb really really fast

1. They might get absorbed to fast, for the muscles to absorb, converting to glucose, and going to glycogen or worse fat.
2. You have no sustained release of amino's into the blood. which screws you. and that would also raise insulin , going back to number 1.

[AleX-69]

Dude, you are missing the point. If you just took in the necessary complete, liquid aminos, you would probably only need say 50g compared to say 300g+ of pro, so you could maintain or even grow on what would be 1000 calories less in this case. That is what goose is talking about. The guy in the video is correct in his point about our body only needing the aminos from protein is correct, but the sources he is talking about are not. When I say liquid aminos, I dont mean from raw food sources or whatever, I mean properly produced, complete liquid aminos.

There are already people experimenting with exactly this sort of diet. Phil Hernon claims to eat no protein and instead ingests 80g of liquid aminos per day, whether he is telling the truth, who knows. The product he claims to use may not be the answer, but im sure one can certainly be produced, and will one day be produced, that would make meat and whey obsolescent.

There are only so many amino acids your body can use. Your body has an "amino acid pool" viewing a protein source only by itself dosent do it justice. All amino acids are going to this pool. (if not oxidized) therefore Biological value only matters if you eat soley ONE kind of protein source over the course of a whole day.

The stuff hernon sells are hydrolized collagen amino acids - sure i agree Liquid BEEF sounds cooler . You could simply buy almost any other liquid amino acid product add some glycerine and you have a cheaper version of "LBAs".

The question we have to ask ourselfs is if amino acids get "lost" during digestion if we eat "normal" food. And do more amino acids reach our amino acid pool when they are predigested? AFAIK approx 90% of whole food proteins do reach the amino acid pool. So i highly doubt you could make the same gains using 80g Protein predigested to compared 300g from whole foods.

It is true though that 1-1.5g Protein per lbs Bdwght is sufficient. I feel that no more is needed.

Keep in mind that Phil Hernon sells the product rather agressively and attacks anyone who has to say something against it. Most people who report good results do so because of high glycerine ingestion which binds a lot of water within the muscle cells therefore causing more pump and a dry appearance.

[MASTER]

well how about this



how fast would liquid amino's absorb? I really have no idea to be honest. but if they are already broken down, and easy to digest, I am guessing they absorb real fast. and here is the problem with amino's that absorb really really fast

1. They might get absorbed to fast, for the muscles to absorb, converting to glucose, and going to glycogen or worse fat.
2. You have no sustained release of amino's into the blood. which screws you. and that would also raise insulin, going back to number 1.

The method is to mix aminos into a large bottle of water and sip them throughout the day.

[MASTER]

There are only so many amino acids your body can use. Your body has an "amino acid pool" viewing a protein source only by itself dosent do it justice. All amino acids are going to this pool. (if not oxidized) therefore Biological value only matters if you eat soley ONE kind of protein source over the course of a whole day.

The stuff hernon sells are hydrolized collagen amino acids - sure i agree Liquid BEEF sounds cooler . You could simply buy almost any other liquid amino acid product add some glycerine and you have a cheaper version of "LBAs".

The question we have to ask ourselfs is if amino acids get "lost" during digestion if we eat "normal" food. And do more amino acids reach our amino acid pool when they are predigested? AFAIK approx 90% of whole food proteins do reach the amino acid pool. So i highly doubt you could make the same gains using 80g Protein predigested to compared 300g from whole foods.

It is true though that 1-1.5g Protein per lbs Bdwght is sufficient. I feel that no more is needed.

Keep in mind that Phil Hernon sells the product rather agressively and attacks anyone who has to say something against it. Most people who report good results do so because of high glycerine ingestion which binds a lot of water within the muscle cells therefore causing more pump and a dry appearance.

It is less than 90%, as 10% of the caloric content is used to digest it alone. Indeed there are a number of factors involved, since different people digest at different rates and people have a different threshold for how much protein can be effectively processed in a period of time. Over saturation is a definate issue. For example, eating 100g of protein at a single sitting would result in a large amount of it being excreted, and with different people and different circumstances (general diet, use of drugs (aas, insulin etc) supplements, health etc) , how much is excreted would of course vary massively. Negligible energy would be needed to digest aminos in the form that protein is eventually broken down into, to be useful.

Im not saying the ratio is 80g to 300g, that was just an example, I have no idea what the actual figures would be, adequate research has not been done into it anyway, at least not that I have been able to find thus far. Again the number of variables would also prove an issue in any such conversion attempt (content of the product used, protein sources, rate of digestion of people used for the study etc) I was merely talking about future possibilities.

I am also aware of the interests of Phil Hernon, I was just using it as an example of how people are already trying to achieve what I was talking about. If you noticed I also said he may not be telling the truth, my reason for this obviously being him selling them. The usefulness of glycerine in this case is overstated imo, but whether the product actually works is of minimal importance, as I was talking about the future, not the present. Both Goose and I are going to be experimenting anyway, and I will definately keep everyone up to speed with how it goes. I will not be using Phils product, just fyi.

[goose]

Me too, 3 of 'em every night blended in with my casein shake, have done for years...

Beware buddy:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20...s-6323e80.html

[NotSmall]

Beware buddy:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20...s-6323e80.html

I'm far too hard to worry about that!

[goose]

I'm far too hard to worry about that!

I know your one hard bloke,I wish I was as hard as you

[NotSmall]

I know your one hard bloke,I wish I was as hard as you

Cialis is the key homeslice!

[goose]

Cialis is the key homeslice!

I thought it was Charlie,LOL.Good luck on your cycle its time to get massive mate!!!

[NotSmall]

I thought it was Charlie,LOL.Good luck on your cycle its time to get massive mate!!!

Oh it's well under way baby - this one is "Operation Get Shredded" and it is progressing nicely...

[goose]

Oh it's well under way baby - this one is "Operation Get Shredded" and it is progressing nicely...

Ok this is for you my sister sent it to me,we were talking about this.

http://www.feinberg.northwestern.edu...ts/biotin.html

Quote:
Physiologic Functions
Biotin coenzyme participates in carboxylation reactions as a carrier of carbon dioxide and donor of carboxyl groups to substrates. The carboxylation step is rate-limiting in fatty acid synthesis. Carboxylation steps are also required in conversion of pyruvate to oxaloacetate which drives the Kreb's cycle, in metabolism of odd chain fatty acids by converting propionyl CoA to methylmalonyl CoA, and in catabolism of leucine.
Factor Affecting Availability
Chronic consumption of raw egg whites reduces biotin availability by binding with avidin to form a nonabsorbable complex.
Deficiency
Biotin deficiency is rarely observed since it is widely available in foods. Inherited defects in biotin metabolism develop biotin deficiency as might patients receiving incomplete parenteral nutrition and infants consuming human milk with low biotin content due to poor maternal intake. Signs of biotin deficiency include hair loss, dermatosis, anorexia, nausea, weight loss, muscle pains, and localized loss of sensation.












The Journal of Nutrition Vol. 128 No. 10 October 1998, pp. 1716-1722

Egg proteins contribute substantially to the daily nitrogen allowances in Western countries and are generally considered to be highly digestible. However, information is lacking on the true ileal digestibility of either raw or cooked egg protein. The recent availability of stable isotope-labeled egg protein allowed determination of the true ileal digestibility of egg protein by means of noninvasive tracer techniques. Five ileostomy patients were studied, once after ingestion of a test meal consisting of 25 g of cooked 13C- and 15N-labeled egg protein, and once after ingestion of the same test meal in raw form. Ileal effluents and breath samples were collected at regular intervals after consumption of the test meal and analyzed for 15N- and 13C-content, respectively. The true ileal digestibility of cooked and raw egg protein amounted to 90.9% (cooked) and 51.3% (raw) respectively. A significant negative correlation (r = 0.92, P < 0.001) was found between the 13C-recovery in breath and the recovery of exogenous N in the ileal effluents. In summary, using the 15N-dilution technique we demonstrated that the assimilation of cooked egg protein is efficient, albeit incomplete, and that the true ileal digestibility of egg protein is significantly enhanced by heat-pretreatment. A simple 13C-breath test technique furthermore proved to be a suitable alternative for the evaluation of the true ileal digestibility of egg protein........

Egg white protein is generally considered to be less digestible than heat-pretreated egg white protein. In this study, it was shown that after ingestion of 25 g of raw egg protein, almost 50% is malabsorbed over 24 h. The higher digestibility of cooked egg protein presumably results from structural changes in the protein molecule induced by heating, thereby enabling the digestive enzymes to gain broader access to the peptide bonds. It has been suggested that the reduced digestibility of raw egg white is at least partially related to the presence of trypsin inhibitors in raw egg white.
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[Pac Man]

I would much rather drink egg whites than eat them but it's not logical seeing how they don't break down efficiently and I get killer gas from them.
I tried to make an eggwhite shake with cooked eggs once, it was horrible.
I remade it with tuna, beans and peanut butter and it was even more less pleasant.
I'm just going to stick to eating real food now