I don't believe mental illnesses exist

[Kratos]

OK, you're probably saying to yourself "this guy is fvckin' crazy, how could he say such a thing?", but hear me out. Maybe I can get you thinking.

Mental illnesses are illnesses of the mind, correct? They are not illnesses of the brain, because then that would be classified as a physiological illness. But where is the mind? Can we see, feel, touch, or even measure the mind? So therefore, how can something (the mind) that cannot be measured, have an illness?

Anxiety, depression, eating and personality disorders, phobias, etc...it's all bullsh*t. There have even been numerous studies done where people with "mental illnesses" were given placebo medications (sugar pills) thinking they were real drugs, and their problems were solved! They rid themselves of their "mental illness". Why? Because they never had a mental illness in the first place!

You can disagree with me all you like. But I just want you to think about it for a moment. If you cannot measure something, how can you say it has an illness?

You sir are are clueless...come with me to visit my brother in the mental institution this weekend, and tell me a sugar pill is gonna fix him.

[mick86]

Hammish, if im correct are you looking at the brain as a purely biological organ in the body? That has only as much substance as the heart or lungs? To deny that mental illness' don't exist is to pretty much completely dismiss psychology. It's good to have a argument on a matter like this, but you cant just say "Yeah, too many dudes here stuck in their ways" when you are being just the same by not even trynna look at both sides of the story.

I dream. I get depressed and I get happy. I got mauled by a pitball a few years back which as a result has given me an irrational fear of dogs of that nature.

It's not just chemical reactions being triggered in the body, all complex life has a psyche.

Sorry mate, couldn't help myself.

[Amorphic]

There's no point. In case you haven't realised, much of the members on this board are VERY stubborn and insusceptible to change/challenging of their beliefs I believe what I believe, and I merely raised an issue to be food for thought. Clearly, many people got offended because they thought to themselves "there is no way he's right and I'm wrong, I'm never wrong", and so on and so forth.

we've all rebutted your argument with facts. we arent naming off random bias pieces of information here. the biological basis for mental health disorders is established.

you've provided no argument into your theory other than telling us that we're sheep for 'believing what society has told us'

your philosophy is lacking in this arguement.

[peachfuzz]

we've all rebutted your argument with facts. we arent naming off random bias pieces of information here. the biological basis for mental health disorders is established.

you've provided no argument into your theory other than telling us that we're sheep for 'believing what society has told us'

your philosophy is lacking in this arguement.

[GT2]

we've all rebutted your argument with facts. we arent naming off random bias pieces of information here. the biological basis for mental health disorders is established.

you've provided no argument into your theory other than telling us that we're sheep for 'believing what society has told us'

your philosophy is lacking in this arguement.

My line of argument was simple. I highlighted it in bold in my first post
And for those of you who are claiming to have a grandmother, brother, etc with a mental illness...how do you know it's a MENTAL illness? How do you know their illness isn't physiological? There must be a "chemical imbalance" or something wrong with their BRAIN, NOT their mind.

It all goes back to this. The MIND and the BRAIN are separate.

I DO BELIEVE that people may have PHYSIOLOGICAL illnesses which affect their behaviour. I DON'T, however, believe that these illnesses are MENTAL illnesses (of the mind). If we cannot understand or study the MIND, we have no right to claim there is a defect with it!

And YES, I AM in fact disputing the NAME given to these illnesses. If there are "chemical imbalances" present in our brains which cause us to behave in unusual ways, why can't we call them BRAIN-ILLNESSES and not MENTAL illnesses? Aren't they illnesses of the brain after all?

[Flagg]

Well that's it, I guess Medical Science has been wrong all this time.

[Kratos]

And for those of you who are claiming to have a grandmother, brother, etc with a mental illness...how do you know it's a MENTAL illness? How do you know their illness isn't physiological? There must be a "chemical imbalance" or something wrong with their BRAIN, NOT their mind.

You obviously don't have the knowledge on this subject...and I'm not going to be the one to give it to you. How do I know what my brother has isn't physiological? Well it's been proven time and again by pathology and MRI, which is why there is no cure. He lead a perfectly normal life until 15 or so, and didn't totally fall apart until 17. He's 19 now, will never hold a real job, it's a miracle he finished high school, likely never drive a car, have friends, relationships, live on his own, or doing anything that resembles a normal life. He'd be better off if he had died. It's something that's taken me years to deal with, so for you to say it doesn't exist although I know you have no clue what you're talking about...subjects like this you should just not say anything. It doesn't make you sound deep or smart or unique, and the only people it appeals to are other clueless people.

[Narkissos]

how can something (the mind) that cannot be measured, have an illness?

This is pretty ridiculous.

Any system with vulnerabilities can have 'illnesses'.

Look at your pretty finite computer system... A data-corrupting piece of information/code is said to be a virus... because that is the capacity it executes and operates in.

Because science cannot yet quantify the mind, it cannot have an illness?

How many other systems exist which are not yet quantifiable?

If mental illness is physiological, why does the word "mental" mean "of the mind?"...Shouldn't it mean "of the brain"?

What other anatomically incorrect medical terms would you like to take a crack at?

How about Hysteria?

It started out to mean 'wandering womb'... i.e. madness stemming from a dry uterus.

-CNS

[Narkissos]

Mental illnesses are more response based. Physiological are more organization and causal based.

Low dopamine = biology/physiological state
Response = change of electrical activity in brain causing depressed emotions.

If you believe in words like happy, sad, or anxious, than you believe in mental illnesses which are extreme imbalances of these emotions.

If you don't believe in happy/sad/anxious than you are a robot.

Bump!

And for the record "mind" directly impacts behavoir.

So we measure the *mind* through behavoir. (to be simple)
Ask another question.

Bump!

There are neurotransmitters in the brain that need to fall within certain ranges for a person to behave and act properly. Often with mental illnesses, those neurotransmitters are not in balance or some are completely absent. There are various reasons for this with some being simple as a failure to metabolize B12 by the patient. For example, when a patient is suffering from a faulty SORL1 gene that doesn't allow for the production of proper amounts of Acetylcholine, Amyloidal Plaques form between neurons and that directly reduces brain function. It is no coincidence that when given a Acetylcholine precursor like Glycerylphosphorylcholine (GPC) the Amyloidal Plaques are healed and the patient stops suffering from active dementia. If you need it in layman’s terms then try to think of it like a circuit board. Brain cells are connected to one another. Very crudely, the pattern of those connections is what we can call memories. The Amyloidal Plagues are like ulcers that form in between those brain cells and interrupt the circuit. When that happens, memories are short-circuited and dementia occurs.
Even mental problems that come about by a traumatic event instead of the faulty gene like discussed above can have implications on the mental health of a patient. To save us from another long example, try to understand it as when someone scares you. When frightened, orders are given by your brain to increase your heart rate, send some adrenaline into the blood, etc. You have a physical response to a psychological stimulus. Then is it so much of a stretch to understand that really severe emotion trauma can affect your brains regulation of its chemicals?

Bump x 3

-CNS

[Narkissos]

if mental illness doesnt exist.

then does addiction?

alot of "addictions" are all mental. you want that hit. your bored, or tired, or sore, or depressed so you "think" you need that line to make everything better. now there are a bunch of chemicals that are physically addicting. H being a strong one. After a certain point (years and years) alcohol can become that way. you need those few beers in the morning so that you dont have the shakes and so on.

but if you cant actually measure the mind as you say Hamish, then how would you be able to measure addiction of the mind?? your saying you cant? so in turn your saying that addiction doesnt exist either.

Addiction would be an example of a physiological event which manifests psychologically.

Addiction manifests through multiple pathways... but for the most part it appears to be chemical.

Genetic factors (which influence of chemical make-up, rate of neurotransimitter output; number of receptors; upregulation of receptors; drug metabolism and excretion etc.) also play a role here.

re: opioid; sigma; dopamine; serotonin (etc.) receptors

-CNS

[Narkissos]

You are being sent messages telepathically. It sounds like you are a part of the resistence to the NWO or (new world order), though it doesn't seem that the messages are comming through clearly, making you think you are crazy, I am also a part of the resistence but i receive my messages with a crystal clear clarity, when u get the messages you need to relax, sit back and open your mind, you are apart of 1% of the worlds population, think yourself lucky.

The last message i got from the demasticus ( abor) aka asian branch of resistence, was that bird flu is a scam by the nwo so they could scare the people into taking a mind controlling "vaccine" , the nwo for some reason pulled out of this plan, and didnt go ahead with it, for what ever reason, i get sent at least 3 messages a week from the khan devision of the resistence in north korea, but thats because i am in australia, if you are in the usa your messages will be sent from justinmac from canada, fsag!!!!!

fight the war
syphon the code
and
good luck

[mick86]

This is pretty ridiculous.

Any system with vulnerabilities can have 'illnesses'.

Look at your pretty finite computer system... A data-corrupting piece of information/code is said to be a virus... because that is the capacity it executes and operates in.

Because science cannot yet quantify the mind, it cannot have an illness?

How many other systems exist which are not yet quantifiable?




What other anatomically incorrect medical terms would you like to take a crack at?

How about Hysteria?

It started out to mean 'wandering womb'... i.e. madness stemming from a dry uterus.

-CNS

Really.... you learn something mew every day!

[calgarian]

Well its easier to sit in front of a computer and think that you are expert on this issue. Wait till you get one. Then You dont need to ask any questions. I know some peeps here who have this issue and it clearly shows sometimes in their posts.
Like its saying its easier to shoot somebody. But try to fit into the shoes of the person who got shot at.

I dont have any mental issues (lot of peeps will disagree to that). But I am not going to say that it doesnt exsists. If you dont have it doesnt mean it doesnt exsists.

Just like saying more then 8 inches d!ck doesnt exsists, Well start watching porno buddy. Or I Can send you some pictures.

[yowhatupU]

Sorry to add to this even though it was ended a few days ago, but:

First off the brain can be qualified/quantified, it's done using an MRI.

Mental illnesses are caused by the brain and would could be classified as brain disorders. For instance: using an MRI, studies have found abnormalities in brain function in those with OCD.
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neur...r1/Kaplan.html

Also, when anyone makes a statement such as: many studies have proven that asdfkj causes asd;lfkj. Please put a link to the study or atleast the author.

Try talking to someone with a severe bipolar disorder while they're manic, you will believe in mental/brain disorders after that.

[KatsMeow]

Hmmm...I wonder why all of my college studies the past year that have revolved around mental illness are just crazy...

you are nuts for not believe that mental illness is real. Read a book, if you aren't that smart then don't post. There is plenty of medical research to prove you wrong

[Narkissos]

Sorry to add to this even though it was ended a few days ago, but:

First off the brain can be qualified/quantified, it's done using an MRI. .

Did you read the first post?

The discussion surrounded being unable to quantify the mind... not the brain.

-CNS

[the_rebirth]

See you need to get your chrakas spun daily

Balance your t-bar @ your third eye (pineial gland)

And surround yourself with violet for protection

Then mental illness will float away. But it is so simple its near impossible to do!!

(yesh my spellin is prob offf)

[mick86]

See you need to get your chrakas spun daily

Balance your t-bar @ your third eye (pineial gland)

And surround yourself with violet for protection

Then mental illness will float away. But it is so simple its near impossible to do!!

(yesh my spellin is prob offf)

Why didn't I think of that, I'll get right on that, thanks

[RA]

lmao...

It's been awhile since I've hit the bong

[RA]

Why does there have to be a chemical imbalance? What if by every standard the brain is normal but the person still exhibits radical behavior. Would you not call that mental illness?

My line of argument was simple. I highlighted it in bold in my first post
And for those of you who are claiming to have a grandmother, brother, etc with a mental illness...how do you know it's a MENTAL illness? How do you know their illness isn't physiological? There must be a "chemical imbalance" or something wrong with their BRAIN, NOT their mind.

It all goes back to this. The MIND and the BRAIN are separate.

I DO BELIEVE that people may have PHYSIOLOGICAL illnesses which affect their behaviour. I DON'T, however, believe that these illnesses are MENTAL illnesses (of the mind). If we cannot understand or study the MIND, we have no right to claim there is a defect with it!

And YES, I AM in fact disputing the NAME given to these illnesses. If there are "chemical imbalances" present in our brains which cause us to behave in unusual ways, why can't we call them BRAIN-ILLNESSES and not MENTAL illnesses? Aren't they illnesses of the brain after all?

[calgarian]

i like to do anal alot with women...does it count as mental illness?

[mick86]

i like to do anal alot with women...does it count as mental illness?

Sounds like an extension of OCD to me, you have an unhealthy obsession with the anal cavity and I hope you overcome this very serious issue.

Stay strong

[calgarian]

Sounds like an extension of OCD to me, you have an unhealthy obsession with the anal cavity and I hope you overcome this very serious issue.

Stay strong

I know man I just want jump on and hump.....cant they give me some drug to take care of that I think i have mentel illness.

[Flagg]

A thread needs to be started, who is more ridiculous, Hamish or Ruhl.

[Amorphic]

A thread needs to be started, who is more ridiculous, Hamish or Rhul.

dude, PLEASE start that thread

[GT2]

dude, PLEASE start that thread

Yeah, please do

I love seeing people expend energy on me, positive or negative, it just means they care

[CSAR]

Two words proving mental illnesses do exist...

Charles Manson

[Kratos]

Yeah, please do

I love seeing people expend energy on me, positive or negative, it just means they care

Someone take Ruhl's second account away from him.

[calgarian]

Someone take Ruhl's second account away from him.

I think IP check is in Order.

[HORSE~]

Someone take Ruhl's second account away from him.

Why not just do away with both accounts....

[calgarian]

Why not just do away with both accounts....

why are you asking? lets try and see

[Amorphic]

Why not just do away with both accounts....

[Reed]

Why not just do away with both accounts....

[GT2]

Why not just do away with both accounts....

That would be unfair dismissal. I do not meet any of the criteria to be banned

[testy300]

Erm - Hi! I am new to this forum and was searching through articles dealing with Depression, Bipolar I & II and cyclothymia and the effects steroids and other performance enhancing drugs have on sufferers of these conditions.

I stumbled across this thread basically out of sheer disbelief that someone could be so naive as to suggest such illnesses do not exist.

After 13 years of medication and after having served in HM Armed Forces in some of the "most interesting" places on this planet and seeing and doing things that haunt me to this day. I can certify that yes mental illness is very much real.

I suffer from Bipolar II Disorder - I work, am married and have a child. Its hard work and yes sometimes I forget to take medication as I feel better. I don't realise that after a day or two I "change". I still feel fine but I become erratic and aggressive. I don't feel it though.

I train hard and work through my illness but ideas and comments such as yours H&A set back the developments and progression in accepting mental health 20 years.

I hope that nothing happens in your life to make you need the help I do.

Peace.

[Flagg]

Hi Testy, welcome to the board!

Bit of a mega bump, but seeing as you are somewhat of an expert on said issue I don't think anyone can fault you. I actually remember this thread quite well. I wonder if Hamish still thinks a sugar lump can cure schitzophrenia?

[J431S]

mental illness is not catergorize in group; there are a whole host of brain disorders, some severe, others mild, while others are chronic.

[jfalco]

Are you a neuroscientist? Thats quite a bold hypothesis...

The people who invented most "mental illnesses" are also not neuroscientists. They are psychologists and psychiatrists, which most scientists would agree are not even real scientists.

Many "mental illnesses" are pure conjecture. They justification for the brain chemistry model for depression is based on anecdotal evidence that some of the drugs the perscribe help some people who are feeling bad. New studies show that regular exercise is as effective as any antidepressant in treating depression. So do that mean that lack of exercise causes depression? Must be from not enough lactic acid in your muscles, right?

Unfortunately this sort of obviously flawed reasoning is noticed, and makes people make blanket statements like, "there is no such thing as mental illness". Anyone who has ever had a scizophrenic in their lives knows that mental illness is a real thing. A good friend of mine killed himseld when the voices in his head got to be too much to deal with. His mental illness was real.
Another good friend of mine has agoraphobia. He has severe panic attacks if gets more than about 30 miles from his house. These panic attacks have measurable physiological responses and they are real.

The mental health industry is bloated, dishonest, primitive and ineffective. The two most diagnosed mental ilnesses, ADHD and depression are for the most part BS, and most legit mental illnesses are not well understood, but they do exist and to say otherwise is very incensitive to anyone who has had to deal with them. Tell my dead friend that scizophrenia isn't real.

[tyward]

Polska, your comment is right on and I would be shocked if in fact Hamish isn't a Scientologist. L Ron was extremely anti-psych, though in all my readings, and I've read most of their documents, I can't actually figure out why. His book, Dianetics, certainly points toward flaws in the mental processes of the brain and the "tech" towards clear presupposes a "mental illness" that needs to be overcome. (My apologies to Hamish if I'm wrong.)
Hamish, I suppose you don't believe that LSD has any effect on the brain because the results are not measurable?

[jfalco]

Hmmm...I wonder why all of my college studies the past year that have revolved around mental illness are just crazy...

you are nuts for not believe that mental illness is real. Read a book, if you aren't that smart then don't post. There is plenty of medical research to prove you wrong

Depending on which resaerch you are talking about, it may or may not have been done scientifically. A lot of this "reasearch" is done w/o the scientific method, and wild conclusions are drawn. Limiting variables is physocological studies is next to impossible. Often these experiments are designed in such a way that the data is forced to fit with an assumed hypothesis and then the hypothesis is touted as proven, even though the experiment really doesn't prove of even suggest anything because there are so many variables that nobody could have any idea what is actually going on.

Most of the research done on depression is centered around drug studies. No studies that I am aware of have been done to prove that the condition exists. Symptoms of a condition wich may or may not really exist have been shown to moderately improve when certain drugs are administered. Sounds like science to me. Mental illness is not well understood.

I agree that it is assanine to say that mental illness doesn't exist, but your statement about medical research is not 100% accurate. Most mental illnesses have very little medical research that conclusively proves anything about them.

Look at those studies that you are learning about critically. Apply a strict scientific method and you will find that most of them don't really hold water.