God or Evolution, you pick

**DSM4Life** · 05-10-2009, 07:51 PM

Since god is as real as the easter bunny, i vote evolution.

**Bio-boosted** · 05-10-2009, 07:58 PM

Hmm.. I didn't think you could prove it. If you can then you don't need faith.
I'd love to know how many folk out there really have read the bible. It's a chilling read.
Btw i am an Athiest but i'm not altogether anti-religion, if it makes you happy then thats cool

**Hazard** · 05-10-2009, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by Hunter-S-Thompson

i have to sign off i could talk about this shit for hours though, it really interests me. im sure ill head back to this thread soon, but good point on the universe... think about it, this "universe" really cant ever "end" if it just stops somewhere after billions of miles, whats on the other side of that end???? who the hell knows, the universe is infinate, and we cannot understand that, nor can we understand much else about life and death...

They are finding that the universe is definately not infinite. It's actually expanding right now.... and they're finding that it's expanding at an alarming rate. Eventually..... our universe will collapse in on itself..... almost implode - creating a supermassive black hole.

Here's a quick explanation of the newest theory of how the big bang happened...... we all know from being taught in school that there was this big explosion..... stars scattered..... planets formed..... gasses were dispersed over VAST distances. But how did this "BANG" occur? Try to keep your mind open for this LOL.....

Picture sheets of paper.... flat..... being held up 1" apart from one another. lets say you have 10 sheets of paper, standing vertical, 1" apart from one another. Imagine that each sheet of paper is a "Universe" - pretty much undeveloped...... now these "universes" fluctuate..... they move slightly. The big bang "COULD" have happened when 2 sheets of paper(universes) moved in the same direction and collided..... creating a HUGE explosion with enough thrust to hurl even the largest chunks of matter millions of lightyears away.

Guys..... i'm strongly urging anyone who is interested in the universe..... physics.... aliens..... w/e to buy Dr. Michio Kaku's book called "Physics of the impossible" - I HATES ME SOME BOOKS...... but this one captivated me enough to go from reading 0 books a year..... to reading this one in 2 days..... it will wrap your mind around some serious sh*t LOL - it's not for the faint of heart..... as you will learn just how fragile and weak we really are and how the death of our human race..... planet..... solar system.... and universe may happen.

~Haz~

**Hunter** · 05-10-2009, 07:59 PM

Gotta go with god on this one.

**xlxBigSexyxlx** · 05-10-2009, 08:04 PM

I believe in evolution and a higher being of some sort, so I wasn't exactly sure what to pick.

But I picked evolution.

**amcon** · 05-10-2009, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by Flagg

How old do you consider the Earth to be? Do you actually believe it was made in 6 days?

#1 - shrinking sun limits the earth -sun relationship to few that billions of years. the sun is losing both mass and dieameter. changing the mas would upset the fine gravitational balance that keeps the earth at just right distance for life to survive.

#2 - the .5 inch layer of cosmic dust on the moon indicates the moon has not been accumulating dust for billions of years

#3 - the existence of short-period comets indicates the universe is less than billions of years old

#4 - fossil meteorites are very rare in layers other than the top layers of earth. this indiates that the layers werer not exposed of millions of years as some currently are being taught in school textbooks

#5 - the moon i receding from the earth a few inches each year. billions of years ago the moon would have been so close that the dies would have been much higherm eroding the contentinents quickly.

#6 - the moos contains considerable quantities of u-236 and th-230... bothe short-lived isotopes that would have been long gone if the moon were billion of years old.

#7 - the existence of great quantities of space dust, which by the poyntion-robertson effect would have been vacumed out of our soalr system in a few thousand years, indicates the solar system is young.

#8 - at the rate many star clusters are expanding, they could not have been traveling for billions of years.

#9 - satrun's rings are still unstable, indicating thay are not billions of years old.

#10 - jupiter and saturn are cooling off rather riapidly. they are cannot be billions of years old.

want more? so it seems using science proves that at least the earth is not billions of years old....

**jbm** · 05-10-2009, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by MAD MATT

For me its got to be God, i dont believe in all that religion shit but i do believe in God...

Agreed!

**jbm** · 05-10-2009, 08:45 PM

**jbm** · 05-10-2009, 08:46 PM

**jbm** · 05-10-2009, 08:46 PM

**amcon** · 05-10-2009, 08:50 PM

or you could look at it this way...

#1 - where did the space for the universe come from?

#2 - where did matter come from?

#3 - how did matter get so perfectly orgianied?

#4 - where did the laws of the universe come from?

#5 - where id the energy come from to do all the organiizing?

#6 - when, where, why, and how did life come from? non-living matter?

#7 - when, where, why and how idd life learn to reproduce it self?

#8 - whit what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?(lol some guys on this forum would love to duplicate that, some act like they have... lol)

#9 - why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind? since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chance of survival? does the individual have a drive to survive? or to save the species? how do you expalon the origin of that?

#10 - how can mutations, recombining of hte genetic code, creat any new improved varieties? recombining english lettes will never produce chinese books - get it?

**Hoggage_54** · 05-10-2009, 08:52 PM

If people want an excellent award winning book about this topic with a good human story, read Calculating God by Robert J. Sawyer.

**amcon** · 05-10-2009, 08:59 PM

the theory of evolution teaches that living things are becoming more complex as time progresses. because the chromosomes in living matter are one of hte most complex bits of matter in the known universe, it would seem logical to assume that organisms with the least number of chromosomes were the first ones to evolve and those withthe most chromosomes are the end result of millions of years of evolutionexperimenting to increase complexity in living organisms. form the chart, it is 'obvious' that we all started of as penicillium with only two chromosomes, and that we slowly evolved into fruit flies witch has 8 chromosomes, after of many millions of years we truned into tomatos witch have 12 chromosomes, and eventually reached the 46 chromosomes we humans now have ... one of our ancestors must have been one of the identical triplets cause - possums, redwoods and kidney beans all have 22 chromosomes.... for get cave man we came from trees!!!

for get that crap we came from God end of story!!

**xlxBigSexyxlx** · 05-10-2009, 09:06 PM

Amcon, Im willing to bet your either rather old and/or have never taken a decent college level biology course. (recently)

late 30s, early 40s

???

**amcon** · 05-10-2009, 09:07 PM

evidence for a young earth------

#1 - oldest tree... a bristle cone pin is approximately 4300 yars old - dated via tree rings, note: the method may not be perfect, but it is the best we have for dating trees.

#2 - the oldest reef... the great barrier reef is less that 4200 years old - dated via measuring hte growth rate for 20 years(it was prob our gov that did that lol).

even though both are less that 5000 years old they are the two oldest-living organisms on the earth. their ages easlily fit the creationist point of view, but leave loose ends for the evolutionist. why arent their older tree or bigger reefs? with the evolutionist timeline, surely something is closer in age to their "millions of years" doesnt fit in to the evolution doesnt fit the facts, does it?

**amcon** · 05-10-2009, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by xlxBigSexyxlx

Amcon, Im willing to bet your either rather old and/or have never taken a decent college level biology course. (recently)

late 30s, early 40s

???

yep... and i did very well in biology, however the teacher was happy to see me go cause i tested the information but did not learn it... it was crap - if God made the earth then science and Gods word would mesh with it perfectly... and from what was being taught it did not.

to calrify that : Gods word and science match as long as God is in the equation ... school doesnt teach God - not in pub. school...

**amcon** · 05-10-2009, 09:14 PM

in 1810 the earth had a billion people, in less than 200 years, the population his six billion.... this fits the biblical chronology perfectly as the current population started about 4400 years agowith NOah and his family after the flood. and evolutionary time line would requrrie not only a nearly non-exsitent growth rate but also three trillion deceased human with in the last million years???? not possible

**SMCengineer** · 05-10-2009, 09:47 PM

It can't be both?

**amcon** · 05-10-2009, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Blome

It can't be both?

well after creation, ya evuolution happened, look at dogs... they can be breed into just about any thing we want... or horses bread to being bigger and stronger... if that is what you talking about yep it is possible

**BgMc31** · 05-10-2009, 10:15 PM

Religion is a very personal endeavor. There is no reason that you cannot believe in the principles of christianity and the theory of evolution. That's where I sit...at this time. I am on a spiritual journey trying to find what exactly to believe. But I think there is no denying that life exist outside our solar system but I believe in the principles of kindness and love for fellow man etc. that christianity teaches.

My father calls me a convenient christian...so be it!!!

**SMCengineer** · 05-10-2009, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by amcon

well after creation, ya evuolution happened, look at dogs... they can be breed into just about any thing we want... or horses bread to being bigger and stronger... if that is what you talking about yep it is possible

I mean what if creationism is evolution and vice versa?

**amcon** · 05-10-2009, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by BgMc31

Religion is a very personal endeavor. There is no reason that you cannot believe in the principles of christianity and the theory of evolution. That's where I sit...at this time. I am on a spiritual journey trying to find what exactly to believe. But I think there is no denying that life exist outside our solar system but I believe in the principles of kindness and love for fellow man etc. that christianity teaches.

My father calls me a convenient christian...so be it!!!

fair assesment... just becareful what you are looking for ... good luck

**Hoggage_54** · 05-10-2009, 10:22 PM

**MuscleScience** · 05-10-2009, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by BgMc31

Religion is a very personal endeavor. There is no reason that you cannot believe in the principles of christianity and the theory of evolution. That's where I sit...at this time. I am on a spiritual journey trying to find what exactly to believe. But I think there is no denying that life exist outside our solar system but I believe in the principles of kindness and love for fellow man etc. that christianity teaches.

My father calls me a convenient christian...so be it!!!

I agree, I believe that there was/is a higher power that created order out of chaos. I also believe that species change over time. Seems like a pretty simple way to believe in both to me.

**amcon** · 05-10-2009, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Blome

I mean what if creationism is evolution and vice versa?

well, i hear ya, what i would say to that is.... i have faith that creation is the way it happened - but that was not enough for me, i had to do research to satisfy my questions and what i found out it that evol couldnt be proved... and creationism can be hypothised to a specific time frame... just so happens that the Word of God showed me this as i was reading it...

ya i know that sounds so wierd but read, study, and have a better understanding

AC

**amcon** · 05-10-2009, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

I agree, I believe that there was/is a higher power that created order out of chaos. I also believe that species change over time. Seems like a pretty simple way to believe in both to me.

yep...

**jfalco** · 05-10-2009, 11:06 PM

the poll is missing options. belief in god and belief in evolution are not mutually exclusive ideas.

**jfalco** · 05-10-2009, 11:22 PM

evolution is a theory. religion is a fantasy.

A theory is an interpretation of data. religion is an irrational belief. the two can not be compared. the validity if the thoery of evolution can be debated, but it is pointless to debate a religious belief.

If you don't think evolution is a good theory, fine. I disagree. In fact, evolution can be observed in real time in bacteria. If you believe in the christian creation myth, you are choosing to believe in an idea which you would consider foolish if you were not christian.

There is evidence to support evolution. There is no evidence to support the creation myth other than a silly book about talking bushes and such.

Why is it that the creationism crowd only argues by pointing out "flaws" in the theory of evolution rather than presenting evidence that supports creationism as a theory?

It is just obvious that one crowd has a better arguement.

Simply stating that you have faith is not an arguement. Arguing only the negative is a clear sign that you have an indefensible point.

**jfalco** · 05-10-2009, 11:24 PM

how many of you creationists think it is reasonable for someone to strap a bomb to themselves and blow up a building so that they can be rewarded by 100 virgins waiting for them in paridise?

Why not? Why is this any different from believing in a creation myth.

**pyrat** · 05-10-2009, 11:24 PM

amcon:
where did dinosaurs come from? How old are they?
is there life on other planets?

also on another note, i would imagine that the moon has so little surface dust because it lacks an atmosphere and does not have a huge amount of gravity, solar wind can blow the dust away. maybe im wrong.

**collar** · 05-10-2009, 11:26 PM

i believe in god, well i look at it there has to be someone above and the all might.
there is always a leader or the big boss, thats our big boss hehe

**jfalco** · 05-10-2009, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by amcon

in 1810 the earth had a billion people, in less than 200 years, the population his six billion.... this fits the biblical chronology perfectly as the current population started about 4400 years agowith NOah and his family after the flood. and evolutionary time line would requrrie not only a nearly non-exsitent growth rate but also three trillion deceased human with in the last million years???? not possible

aparently you have never heard of exponential growth?

**amcon** · 05-10-2009, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by amcon

or you could look at it this way...

#1 - where did the space for the universe come from?

#2 - where did matter come from?

#3 - how did matter get so perfectly orgianied?

#4 - where did the laws of the universe come from?

#5 - where id the energy come from to do all the organiizing?

#6 - when, where, why, and how did life come from? non-living matter?

#7 - when, where, why and how idd life learn to reproduce it self?

#8 - whit what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?(lol some guys on this forum would love to duplicate that, some act like they have... lol)

#9 - why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind? since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chance of survival? does the individual have a drive to survive? or to save the species? how do you expalon the origin of that?

#10 - how can mutations, recombining of hte genetic code, creat any new improved varieties? recombining english lettes will never produce chinese books - get it?

Originally Posted by jfalco

evolution is a theory. religion is a fantasy.

A theory is an interpretation of data. religion is an irrational belief. the two can not be compared. the validity if the thoery of evolution can be debated, but it is pointless to debate a religious belief.

If you don't think evolution is a good theory, fine. I disagree. In fact, evolution can be observed in real time in bacteria. If you believe in the christian creation myth, you are choosing to believe in an idea which you would consider foolish if you were not christian.

There is evidence to support evolution. There is no evidence to support the creation myth other than a silly book about talking bushes and such.

Why is it that the creationism crowd only argues by pointing out "flaws" in the theory of evolution rather than presenting evidence that supports creationism as a theory?

It is just obvious that one crowd has a better arguement.

Simply stating that you have faith is not an arguement. Arguing only the negative is a clear sign that you have an indefensible point.

it was a buring bush... fine answer any of the above questions i have hundreds more... answer them

**jfalco** · 05-10-2009, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by jbm

what's the point? most people are easily fooled?

**amcon** · 05-10-2009, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by jfalco

how many of you creationists think it is reasonable for someone to strap a bomb to themselves and blow up a building so that they can be rewarded by 100 virgins waiting for them in paridise?

Why not? Why is this any different from believing in a creation myth.

what? how does that make any sence? and christians are not paridise it is called heaven

and why would a creationists strap bombs on them selves?

**QuieTSToRM33** · 05-10-2009, 11:29 PM

Here we go again.

**amcon** · 05-10-2009, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by jfalco

what's the point? most people are easily fooled?

you show that very well

**amcon** · 05-10-2009, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by jfalco

aparently you have never heard of exponential growth?

the equasion used was based on expontential growth... are you proving the point by saying their would be more people?

bro you cant break the truth... evoluitionists cant answer these question - that is why i put them there...

**collar** · 05-10-2009, 11:39 PM

no need to jump of the topic lol, the question was do you believe in god or not.

**amcon** · 05-10-2009, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by pyrat

amcon:
where did dinosaurs come from? How old are they?
is there life on other planets?

also on another note, i would imagine that the moon has so little surface dust because it lacks an atmosphere and does not have a huge amount of gravity, solar wind can blow the dust away. maybe im wrong.

well, to keep this not on the wierd side... dinos did exist, according to scinetists today some do still

i will note that 95 % of dinos found are about 1 - 10% complete and thus we really have no idea on what they would have looked like or anything else...

some even believe that even the famous unicorn was on the arc when the earth was flooded... read job 39: 9-10

life on other planets i would personally say know from what i have studied, and science would agree with me -