The line between self defense and assault is TOO thin

[Gaspari1255]

Safe

[gixxerboy1]

sucks bro. I would have done the same thing you did. When i was at a club in philly we would fvck someone up if they deserved it. Then when the cops came we would pull some girl from inside the club to say the guy assaulted her or touched her wrong and we protected her.

[Gaspari1255]

I have a witness saying he came at me with the bottle. I should be good. Just annoying bs that didn't need to happen.

[Noles12]

Probably had to do with using a stool.

My dad told me a story about when he bounced in college at Tennessee. He worked in a bar where they had slapjacks and those little wooden baseball bats to use if needed, usually to hit a guy in the legs or something. Well the University of Tennessee wrestling team was there and a few started acting up. They tried to get the guys causing a scene to leave. One of the drunk ones got into it with a bouncer and after hitting the bouncer a few times and trying to take him to the ground, the bouncer hit him across the head with a little bat. He knocked him out and split him open bad. They arrest him for assault even though every one said it was in self defense.

A weapon used on an unarmed or in your case pretty much unarmed individual usually doesnt end well

[Gaspari1255]

Probably had to do with using a stool.

My dad told me a story about when he bounced in college at Tennessee. He worked in a bar where they had slapjacks and those little wooden baseball bats to use if needed, usually to hit a guy in the legs or something. Well the University of Tennessee wrestling team was there and a few started acting up. They tried to get the guys causing a scene to leave. One of the drunk ones got into it with a bouncer and after hitting the bouncer a few times and trying to take him to the ground, the bouncer hit him across the head with a little bat. He knocked him out and split him open bad. They arrest him for assault even though every one said it was in self defense.

A weapon used on an unarmed or in your case pretty much unarmed individual usually doesnt end well

If you take a shot to the head with a beer bottle...you're going to the hospital. It's not like what you see in the movies.

[Noles12]

If you take a shot to the head with a beer bottle...you're going to the hospital. It's not like what you see in the movies.

I know what its like. Ive worked in many bars and clubs. Ive taken a few to the head along with a champagne bottle. a beer bottle will do some damage but not to the point of being hospitalized. The champagne bottle did knock me out for a few seconds though.

Im not saying you should have gotten in trouble for what you did. You defended yourself when there was the chance of being harmed by another. Therefore you should have not be in trouble. I just said the only issue was probably the amount of force used in the situation

[terraj]

Not giving you sh@t OP, but I would not be posting stuff where the police are involved.....particularly details of the assults.

[MastaMan]

Good for you! they all deserved it... sounds like atlantic city is full of some grade A asssholes, though

[Gaspari1255]

Good for you! they all deserved it... sounds like atlantic city is full of some grade A asssholes, though

Get your Safari hat ready if you ever visit, because its a fvcking zoo down there.

[Gaspari1255]

Good for you! they all deserved it... sounds like atlantic city is full of some grade A asssholes, though

Get your Safari hat ready if you ever visit, because its a fvcking zoo down there.

[jimmyinkedup]

To be honest im kind of surprised you didnt handle the last incident differently. I used to bounce some years ago. Rule #1 - ANYTIME there was an inciudent we called the police and pressed assault charges first. You would be amazed how being the first to report the incident to police - along with the other bouncers or patrons backing you - would virtually eliminate the possiblity of you being charged with anything. Im sure it will work out for you (at least i hope so - who knows the "justice" system can be relly f'ed up at times) but keep in mind what i said above for any future reference. Best of luck to you.

[gixxerboy1]

To be honest im kind of surprised you didnt handle the last incident differently. I used to bounce some years ago. Rule #1 - ANYTIME there was an inciudent we called the police and pressed assault charges first. You would be amazed how being the first to report the incident to police - along with the other bouncers or patrons backing you - would virtually eliminate the possiblity of you being charged with anything. Im sure it will work out for you (at least i hope so - who knows the "justice" system can be relly f'ed up at times) but keep in mind what i said above for any future reference. Best of luck to you.

i dont know how you cant stop before an incedent happens and call the cops

[MastaMan]

i dont know how you cant stop before an incedent happens and call the cops

I think he meant file assualt charges before the other person can, not file assault charges before the incident happens

[lovbyts]

I think he meant file assualt charges before the other person can, not file assault charges before the incident happens

X2, that's the way I read it also. The earlier post where the cop said they should have called them instead of defending himself is ridiculous.

I agree with several things. Next time make sure you call first. Try not to use something like a stool unless it's necessary and you have no other option and stop hanging out/walking around in areas that there are so many thugs. I understand while you are at work you cant help it but walking back and forth, go around the area.

[Twist]

You mean what happened was three guys assaulted you earlier in the night but you managed to knock one out and get away. They later found out where you work and continued to assault you there too. I would edit the first post and think about spinning that.

[Mooseman33]

you must be taking sust......lol

anyway, a couple things stand out to me.
who cares if someone tells u to keep walking, stupid stuff my friend, u won this time but challenging 3 grown men alone is never safe.
when the guy yelled at u across the street who cares, he was in no way a threat, he was a good distance from u, again not a immediate threat.
why bash in the guy with a bar stool if ur buddy has pepper spray. if u hit a guy with the spray and still need a weapon to take him down, there is a problem...
i def think they all got what they deserved, but i think all 3 incidents could have and should have been avoided......

now u have to get an attorney, waste couple grand.....good luck mate

[gixxerboy1]

X2, that's the way I read it also. The earlier post where the cop said they should have called them instead of defending himself is ridiculous.

I agree with several things. Next time make sure you call first. Try not to use something like a stool unless it's necessary and you have no other option and stop hanging out/walking around in areas that there are so many thugs. I understand while you are at work you cant help it but walking back and forth, go around the area.

its atlantic city. The whole area is really a shit hole. There are the casino's along the ocean. The casino's themselves are ok but as soon as you step outside its bad.

[jimmyinkedup]

I think he meant file assualt charges before the other person can, not file assault charges before the incident happens

Exactly what i meant.
For example in this situation right after it happened i would have called the police. When they showed up i would say the guy came at me and my coworker-totally unprovoked- with a beer bottle swinging it at us..my co worker sprayed him with pepper spray , as we both feared for our well being. He stopped momentarily the began to assault us again with the bottle. In an effort to protect myself i swung a stool at the attacker- hoping to knock the bottle from his hand and/or stop him from assaulting us. I was afraid we copuld get serioiusly injured and rather than engage hand to hand i picked up the closest object to protect myself and my coworker from harm from the bottle and his attack. Obviously your statement prob wouldnt be worded that exact way but i would have made sure all the main points i touched on were incorporated.
I have been party to situations where I have seen much shakier circumstances where the bouncer had much less reason and did much more harm and had no charges whatsoever pressed. Pressing charges first with a coroborating witness almost assures no charges would be pressed. As i said in my OP - this was rule #1 - told to me by almost every bouncer when i started bouncing.

[gixxerboy1]

i shouldn't quoted Jimmy. I was more referring to what the cop said

[Gaspari1255]

Exactly what i meant.
For example in this situation right after it happened i would have called the police. When they showed up i would say the guy came at me and my coworker-totally unprovoked- with a beer bottle swinging it at us..my co worker sprayed him with pepper spray , as we both feared for our well being. He stopped momentarily the began to assault us again with the bottle. In an effort to protect myself i swung a stool at the attacker- hoping to knock the bottle from his hand and/or stop him from assaulting us. I was afraid we copuld get serioiusly injured and rather than engage hand to hand i picked up the closest object to protect myself and my coworker from harm from the bottle and his attack. Obviously your statement prob wouldnt be worded that exact way but i would have made sure all the main points i touched on were incorporated.
I have been party to situations where I have seen much shakier circumstances where the bouncer had much less reason and did much more harm and had no charges whatsoever pressed. Pressing charges first with a coroborating witness almost assures no charges would be pressed. As i said in my OP - this was rule #1 - told to me by almost every bouncer when i started bouncing.

You know, normally I would press charges first and give the police the heads up. But to be honest, I was literally afraid to put my hands in my pocket, dial the number to the police, and take my eyes off of the subject and surrounding people. You never know with these god damn animals, that moment I grab my phone, he could pull out a firearm or one of his scumbag piece of shit friends could come up behind me and knife me. It's STILL not over, he will send one of his boys back (it may not be tomorrow, or the next day, but by the time summer is over) to try and take a shot at me (literally). There's probably a good chance that I'm gonna get shot or stabbed within the next year while bouncing. At that point in my life where I've seen it all by now and I "just dont give a fvck." It's a bad attitude to have, and hopefully it will change some day. Every night before bed I will be praying to god that the entire Island of Atlantic City breaks off into the ocean and sinks.

[dec11]

The other night, I was walking down the Atlantic City boardwalk. I headed to a beach bar to drop off a set of earrings that a girl I used to date left at my house. It was tough for me, I really cared about her, and its probably the last time I'll see her again. I was an emotional wreck--depressed, pissed off, sad, all at once. As I am walking back from the beach bar, down the boardwalk, heading towards the Strip Club I bounce at (on my way to work), a group of three thugs walk by me flexing their lats and laughing at me. I think to myself "Fvck these guys, its not worth it" and I kept walking. I get about 10 feet away and the one yells "Yeah you better keep walking." Well, something went off inside my head and I fvcking lost it.

I turned around, and one of the started walking towards me---I blacked out and knocked him the fvck out before he even hit the ground. His two friends just stood there in shock and didnt do a damn thing. I started walking away, and kept my eyes staring at the windows of the casino's, to see the reflection if they were gonna come at me from behind or not...They never followed me.

The strip club I work is about 5 blocks down, and one street from the boardwalk. I went into work and 3-4 hours goes by, so I think everything is done and over with....

About 5 hours after the incident on the boardwalk, another thug piece of shit starts staring at me across the street, so I ask him "How ya doing man" and he repsponds with "I know who you are motherfvcker" and gives me some time of hand gesture as if he was firing a pistol. So once again, I lost it and screamed "Shoot me you piece of fvcking trash, I Dare you....I WANNA DIE...SHOOT ME."

He dissapears and about an hour goes by and another thug comes by on a bike. He rides about 15 feet passed me, slams his bike down, and approaches me with a Corona bottle cocked back ready to nail me. The other bouncer pulls out his pepper spray and hits him with him when he's about 5 feet from me. The guy coughs a little bit, staggers, then proceeds to come at me again. I pick up the stool outside and bash his fvcking head in.

HE calls the police and files charges for assault and harrasment. He came to MY club, swinging a bottle at MY head and claims hes the "victim". The officer took me into custody and said they I should have phoned the police instead of hitting him with the stool. Okay officer, at what point was I supposed to call you? Between the time the guy stepped towards me and the time he swung the bottle?

What a fvcking joke. I'm still waiting to get all the paper work back and get my court date. I counter-filed charges for harassment. I really wish I grew up in the 70s-80s when bouncers could fvcking kill people and there were no repercussions.

i know how you feel mate, im bouncing at a strip bar aswell, all the crazies and low life assholes wanna start crap all the time, at least you guys are allowed spray

[wmaousley]

Some states like Georgia do not recognize self defense. I was involved in an altercation with some white trash back in 2000 and ended up getting stabbed in the upper left side of my back and I was charged with simple battery and affray. Spent 9 days in jail, 3 months house arrest, and 2 years supervised probation including a fine. All this while I had a clean record. WTF!!!

[dec11]

Some states like Georgia do not recognize self defense. I was involved in an altercation with some white trash back in 2000 and ended up getting stabbed in the upper left side of my back and I was charged with simple battery and affray. Spent 9 days in jail, 3 months house arrest, and 2 years supervised probation including a fine. All this while I had a clean record. WTF!!!

jez, thts just wrong!!!

[Gaspari1255]

i know how you feel mate, im bouncing at a strip bar aswell, all the crazies and low life assholes wanna start crap all the time, at least you guys are allowed spray

I have never been a fan of strip clubs. But ever since I started working in one, I hate them with a god damn passion. 95% of the clientele are pathetic, low-life, scumbags who have never seen a pair or tits in their entire lives. The strippers are either crack whores or prostitutes. Do they all try to bait you and fvck you too? I don't give any of them the time of the day..even though some of them look okay, my dick couldn't get hard to them.

[dec11]

I have never been a fan of strip clubs. But ever since I started working in one, I hate them with a god damn passion. 95% of the clientele are pathetic, low-life, scumbags who have never seen a pair or tits in their entire lives. The strippers are either crack whores or prostitutes. Do they all try to bait you and fvck you too? I don't give any of them the time of the day..even though some of them look okay, my dick couldn't get hard to them.

same as mate, full of lowlife wackos, if any of em start they get tore out the door no questions asked. we've also serious heavy criminal names in and out of the place, just have to be careful how to approach situations, any of them would hand a junkie a wrap to put a bullet in you

[songdog]

Get a good lawyer they have a way of turning shit around.The Democracts got this country screwed up.I let a guy hit me 1st and I still lost.

[Times Roman]

you must be taking sust......lol

anyway, a couple things stand out to me.
who cares if someone tells u to keep walking, stupid stuff my friend, u won this time but challenging 3 grown men alone is never safe.
when the guy yelled at u across the street who cares, he was in no way a threat, he was a good distance from u, again not a immediate threat.
why bash in the guy with a bar stool if ur buddy has pepper spray. if u hit a guy with the spray and still need a weapon to take him down, there is a problem...
i def think they all got what they deserved, but i think all 3 incidents could have and should have been avoided......

now u have to get an attorney, waste couple grand.....good luck mate

I'm going to have to agree with moose on this one. I'm not saying you were wrong. I am saying you were not in the right frame of mind, and definately could have handled things better.

your associate, the other bouncer, had the right approach using the pepper spray. It seems the pepper spray, although not stopping the agressor, still slowed him down. Another dose of the spray, and maybe the two of you could have held him down.

you are there in a professional capacity. You do not have a license to kick ass whenever the situation arises. You are there to defuse agressive situations and to ensure the peace. Busting a dude over the head with a bar stool is not the right course of action. Instead of calming things down, it seemed you made them worse.

The police, not having been there, need to take you and the other party into custody so they can straighten the whole mess out.

By the time you got to work, instead of being cool headed, you were outraged, and went off at the first opportunity.

[Gaspari1255]

I'm going to have to agree with moose on this one. I'm not saying you were wrong. I am saying you were not in the right frame of mind, and definately could have handled things better.

your associate, the other bouncer, had the right approach using the pepper spray. It seems the pepper spray, although not stopping the agressor, still slowed him down. Another dose of the spray, and maybe the two of you could have held him down.

you are there in a professional capacity. You do not have a license to kick ass whenever the situation arises. You are there to defuse agressive situations and to ensure the peace. Busting a dude over the head with a bar stool is not the right course of action. Instead of calming things down, it seemed you made them worse.

The police, not having been there, need to take you and the other party into custody so they can straighten the whole mess out.

By the time you got to work, instead of being cool headed, you were outraged, and went off at the first opportunity.

This is true and its something I try to work on. I know I have some screws loose, and it's very tough for me dealing with my emotions. I got from 0-100mph in about half a second.

[spywizard]

remember the DA is the one that is a public employee and your employer should be paying your legal bills, and if not, i'm sure his insurance company will have to.. but you'll probably lose that job for shure..

[Times Roman]

This is true and its something I try to work on. I know I have some screws loose, and it's very tough for me dealing with my emotions. I got from 0-100mph in about half a second.

I too can be a little hot headed from time to time. And it was more than a little when I was your age. Lets' just call it moderate.

Defusing these situations requires you to use your wits, not your brawn......

.....if you want to stay out of jail, that is.

Look, if a dude is swinging at you, of course you should defend yourself, but only to the point where you have things back under control. You don't get to keep kicking his ass as if you were in a street fight! =)

....you may have the physical attributes to be a "peacekeeper", but probably not the mentality. Imagine the shit you'd be in if you seriously injured the dude, or worse.....

....you should probably find a line of work where you won't lose control and risk injuring others and the loss of your personal freedom. Think about it?

[dec11]

bronzer you jinxed me man, had to go for it 2nite with some prick outside the club, kicked him so hard in the shin that my big toe is black and blue, maybe a trip to the x-ray department for me this a'noon

[solid-d]

My advice would be, get out of the Club scene.. You dont need to be around drunkin idiots.. With drunkin idiots, comes problems.. Go get a real job, perhaps a career, or go back to school..

[dec11]

My advice would be, get out of the Club scene.. You dont need to be around drunkin idiots.. With drunkin idiots, comes problems.. Go get a real job, perhaps a career, or go back to school..

its not that black and white pal, it comes in handy for a back up job while everything else is screwed up in this recession, any doormen ive worked with are only doormen because they're own area of work is dead at the moment, i dont know anyone who 'likes' the job. qualifications seem to mean toss at the moment, mine are doing nothing for me.

[gixxerboy1]

My advice would be, get out of the Club scene.. You dont need to be around drunkin idiots.. With drunkin idiots, comes problems.. Go get a real job, perhaps a career, or go back to school..

i agree with dec11. For alot of people its also a 2nd job for extra $$. Or some people may want to be in the bar industry as a career. I started as a door guy at one club and ended up a manager. I also know someone who started as a valet and ended up being manager of the biggest gentleman club in philly. You may have to start someplace to get your foot in the door.

[dec11]

i agree with dec11. For alot of people its also a 2nd job for extra $$. Or some people may want to be in the bar industry as a career. I started as a door guy at one club and ended up a manager. I also know someone who started as a valet and ended up being manager of the biggest gentleman club in philly. You may have to start someplace to get your foot in the door.

also very true, some can be lucky and end up in good positions

[Tigershark]

Unfortunately he filed first. That does not mean he is right. He is a piece of sh*t for not taking his beating like a man. Just make sure you have those witnesses ready to go when this goes to court. That will be your ace in the hole.
Best of luck to you and sorry all this crap is happening to you.

[wmaousley]

Have all your witnesses subpenaed to appear in court as a witness for your own protection. This will ensure they show up.

[Tigershark]

Have all your witnesses subpenaed to appear in court as a witness for your own protection. This will ensure they show up.

Spot on!

[PitMaster]

assault is one thing. assault and battery with a deadly weapon is a felony around here. If you got a clean record and a good lawyer u should be fine. Just imagine being thrown in the hooskow if u was on cycle. Too much stress and money involved. wooosaaah. Good luck

[calstate23]

Probably had to do with using a stool.

My dad told me a story about when he bounced in college at Tennessee. He worked in a bar where they had slapjacks and those little wooden baseball bats to use if needed, usually to hit a guy in the legs or something. Well the University of Tennessee wrestling team was there and a few started acting up. They tried to get the guys causing a scene to leave. One of the drunk ones got into it with a bouncer and after hitting the bouncer a few times and trying to take him to the ground, the bouncer hit him across the head with a little bat. He knocked him out and split him open bad. They arrest him for assault even though every one said it was in self defense.

A weapon used on an unarmed or in your case pretty much unarmed individual usually doesnt end well

There is a big difference. The person wasn't unarmed, he had a bottle (Not to mention, a broken bottle in his hand). I know someone that got attempted murder for trying to hit someone in the head with a beer bottle. It is very well considered a weapon and not to mention it was a broken beer bottle which is even worse. That person could easily been charged with an attempted murder charge for coming at someone like that. That would be like pulling a knife.

If it went down how he said it did, he should truly have no problems. Basically, he used a weapon in fear of his life. That is what I would say