Abortion

[amcon]

^^^ lol - i got snipped (have 4 kidos)

[Urface]

Abortion should be used responsibly like for rape victims & lots of other good reasons. But I don't think it was ever intended to be used as birth control by young sluts half a dozen times a year

[SexySweetheart]

^ this

[Flagg]

sorry to challenge you - i will not make an excuse that i am a guy, however it should not be a persons choice... remember we are talking murder - stopping a life

not specifically to you but to ever one:

guys it is a baby, whether or not the baby is convient or not, it is alive - how can you kill a person (if we are alive we are a person - not a fetus). so, my neighbors who are great ppl, just moved in to there house, with three kids come over to day and asked if we could invite them over for dinner they had no money for food (there bird, rabbit, reicently died - to find out from no food, and they gave away one of the two dogs cuz of no money for food) (come to find out they both lost there job this month and had no savings cuz of reciently buying house) back to my point... so not that the kids need food and they cant pay for any food - should they just kill them? save the dog? - My point - now the kids are inconvenient, sadly, so what should they do? kill the fetuses? oops i mean kids?

to kill the kids would be crazy!! we all know that - but where do you draw the line? some ppl can kill the kids? some ppl cant...


is it really a choice?

Murder has occured on a daily basis since the beginning of prehistoric times. Animals murder other animals for food or territory, every day. Then you have humans murdering ALL species, including our own everyday, only we call it industry.

Do you know what a blastocyte is? Casting my mind back a couple of years, it is basically what a fertilised egg is around 5 days after fertilisation occurs. At this stage, at 100 cells, the cells haven't even begun to differentiate. If you say this is murder to stop this collection of cells from further producing, then I would assume you must think male masturbation is murder as well, because think of all those millions of LIVING SPERM CELLS, that could potentially have become a human being.

I've stated before that I don't believe that abortions should happen on a whim because a pair of selfish yuppies dont want a child intefering in their materialistic world, but unfortunately simply having a child, no matter what the circumstances, is not black and white. A 13 year old child is raped, and is made pregnant. How can you tell me, she should go through the ordeal of pregnancy at that age, and there and then, forgo her education. Not to mention the psychological impact of what is happening to her. And then every time she see's that child, she is reminded of what has happened to her. Then what of the child? Knowing that it's conception was one, not of love, but of a terrible, evil act.

This is what bothers me about pro lifers, that dying is simply, unacceptable to you, when murder is happening around you, all the time, and you simply turn a blind eye to it. What next, make pickets around graveyards because it's simply not acceptable that people have died and need to be buried.

If in the future, medicine finds a way of extending our lives so we could live to say, 1000....would it be wrong in your view, to let people die naturally at an age of around 70, simply because they were not allowed this medicine?

The world is not black and white. There are implications of every single act, that everyone makes every day.

To cut a long story short, human beings are flawed. We are the most flawed species in the world, which is why we're killing the world and slowly killing ourselves.

All that said, a ball of somatic cells is one thing, but a fetus is another. At some point, those cells will begin to resemble a humanoid form. Is that not, for all intents and purposes, the early stages of a fully formed human? I wonder how many people would be quick to have an abortion if they were made to watch on a CT scan, the fetus being terminated. It's very easy for people to do something controversial if they cannot physically see the ramifications or outcome of what has happened.

[marcus300]

i look at it this way. The load i blow on my wifes ass isnt a person because it touched an egg instead of the crack of her ass

I was enjoying reading both sides of the debate when I suddenly came across this post, fvcking hell it made me laugh and injected some humour into this delicate subject LMFAO

[Kawigirl]

i look at it this way. The load i blow on my wifes ass isnt a person because it touched an egg instead of the crack of her ass

Some might say this is reckless abandonment perhaps...

[amcon]

Murder has occured on a daily basis since the beginning of prehistoric times.(your view is there was prehistoric time... funny question if it is "pre" historic - how did it exist? you view is it did exist my is in siecntifically didnt) Animals murder other animals for food or territory, every day. Then you have humans murdering ALL species, including our own everyday, only we call it industry. (does that make it acceptable? does it make it right? just cuz it is stated here doesnt make it correct)

Do you know what a blastocyte is?(no i didnt but i google it and it have very clear peices of developed live... so yes it would be killing a human baby - The blastocyst is a structure formed in the early embryogenesis of mammals, after the formation of the morula. It is a specifically mammalian example of a blastula.[citation needed] It possesses an inner cell mass (ICM), or embryoblast, which subsequently forms the embryo, and an outer layer of cells, or trophoblast, which later forms the placenta. The trophoblast surrounds the inner cell mass and a fluid-filled blastocyst cavity known as the blastocoele or the blastocystic cavity. The human blastocyst comprises 70-100 cells.

Blastocyst formation begins at day 5 after fertilization in humans, when the blastocoele opens up in the morula, a process known as hatching
) Casting my mind back a couple of years, it is basically what a fertilised egg is around 5 days after fertilisation occurs. At this stage, at 100 cells, the cells haven't even begun to differentiate. If you say this is murder to stop this collection of cells from further producing, then I would assume you must think male masturbation is murder as well,(some might i do not, you need the egg and sperm togather, one by it self wouldnt mean life, that would mean a woman menstrating would have to get preg every time or risk killing a egg? no i think it is just a egg, non firtilized would mean no life. ) because think of all those millions of LIVING SPERM CELLS, that could potentially have become a human being.

I've stated before that I don't believe that abortions should happen on a whim because a pair of selfish yuppies dont want a child intefering in their materialistic world,(what persentage are white yuppies that dont want their materialistic world disrupted? low is my guss - The Myth of Yuppie Abortion Sluts
http://scribe.doublex.com/blog/xxfac...abortion-sluts) but unfortunately simply having a child, no matter what the circumstances, is not black and white. A 13 year old child is raped, and is made pregnant. How can you tell me,(no one could tell you that except the person that has gone through that, in the last year they found a grl who was taken at 10 years old, kept as a sex slave in some psyco's back yard and he had two children with her, it has been well publicized and well documented - she says the children are the best thing in her life! the only thing that made her live to another day, i guess you would have to consult with ppl like her to see if they think kids should be aborted for any reason... i say no http://dangazzm.hubpages.com/hub/Kid...nd-Years-Later ) she should go through the ordeal of pregnancy at that age, and there and then, forgo her education. Not to mention the psychological impact of what is happening to her. And then every time she see's that child, she is reminded of what has happened to her.(she clearly answered that question in a 60 min interview - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImMZ7...feature=relmfu) Then what of the child? Knowing that it's conception was one, not of love, but of a terrible, evil act.

This is what bothers me about pro lifers, that dying is simply, unacceptable to you, when murder is happening around you, all the time, and you simply turn a blind eye to it. What next, make pickets around graveyards because it's simply not acceptable that people have died and need to be buried. (murder is bad any where! as for me i have a passion for babies and murder... after i solve that i will go to the murders next door to slove that tooo lol)

If in the future, medicine finds a way of extending our lives so we could live to say, 1000....would it be wrong in your view, to let people die naturally at an age of around 70, simply because they were not allowed this medicine? (hu? what point are you making ? so, since we are on abbortion, i will stay their - yes i say meds that cause abortion are very very wrong for the record!!! if we live to a 1000 yes i will be sooo for that do you have any idea how many cycles i could do in a thousand years!!!!!!)

The world is not black and white. There are implications of every single act, that everyone makes every day.

To cut a long story short, human beings are flawed. We are the most flawed species in the world, which is why we're killing the world and slowly killing ourselves.(we are also the best - and can over come great problems and issues)

All that said, a ball of somatic cells is one thing, but a fetus is another. At some point, those cells will begin to resemble a humanoid form. Is that not, for all intents and purposes, the early stages of a fully formed human? I wonder how many people would be quick to have an abortion if they were made to watch on a CT scan, the fetus being terminated. It's very easy for people to do something controversial if they cannot physically see the ramifications or outcome of what has happened.

MOST of last statment is well said!!!

see above highlighted

[xelnaga]

Eric rudolph's story is on MSNBC.

[zaggahamma]

would anyone that is more or all pro life DISAGREE that its ok to abort due to rape, danger to mother? or is that unanimous

[DSM4Life]

Hypocrite. ( http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...50#post5823650 )

[Lemonada8]

I'm Prochoice but like its been said, its not all black and white there are definitely some grey areas.

Abortion should be done in the first trimester if by choice, the decision should be made as soon as possible before the unborn baby is well differentiated. Late term abortions should NOT be done, unless there are some severe genetic issues with the child which it wouldnt survive long without severe intervention once it is born. Or there is some non-development of key organs (the brain for instance). But, in the end it is the mothers (familys) choice in those cases. I would think that going through birth-giving to a non-life sustainable child would have a greater impact on the mental status of the mother than having an abortion earlier in the pregnancy. And those who choose to have an abortion, there should be some life counseling that is included and a form of birth control that is long lasting to be 'almost imposed' on the woman to prevent any further abortions.

As for rape cases, where it was a single occurance (not like the abduction of the girl and kept as a 'slave' *which presents alot more issues) those should be done ASAP if the mother wishes to do so, but there would need to be some sort of 'watchful eye' over those people so women dont try to abuse the system by 'claiming rape' to get an abortion. and any false claims of 'rape' (dont know how bad of an issue that is) should be dealt with in a severe manner as well.
As for the ones who rape the women, they should get an immediate vascetomy preventing any chance of impregnating a victim of their selfish behavior. (this is definately the case for repeated rape offenses, maybe not for a 'one-and-done' case but those in that category would need to have their lifestyle closely examined to determine their fate)
Those who are guilty of rape should have to be registered and monitored to make sure that they become a 'ideal citizen with a bad past' (basically they become a better person) or be subject to more severe penalties (kinda like being on probition and breaking the law = more severe fates) and have certain restrictions on their life choices (where they live, work, socialize, etc). Basically they give up their freedom when they made that choice to force themselves on a victim.

There are many unwanted kids out there without proper support in their lives, and end up being a 'social drain' and not a very productive individual. Is it their fault that they never really saw how a 'good' person lives their life? Kids follow their parents/role models in their life choices by either going down the similar path or the complete opposite (but the latter is still due to good parenting somewhat by showing what not to be)
There needs to be reform on how the adoption process goes, and those kids who jump from foster family to foster family really arent getting the type of life education they deserve; that is a rough area to have a 'cure all' solution. Maybe something similar to a boarding school with good educators/role models that can help socialize the kids with eachother and become productive members of society. And include real life skill training and less 'philosophical' knowledge learning (except those who want to pursue that route) ? All in all, one real issue with raising kids is the type of education they receive. (education needs overhaul also, but thats off topic)

But, if the choice is made to have an abortion (meaining the child is unwanted) and the decision is made early, why would we want to have another child in the world who isnt wanted when we can send them back to the lord right away? It would be a decision that would impact the mother/family involved and hopefully a lesson is learned.

As for being against doctors that do abortions, dont hate on them. They are medically trained to deal with the human body and would be the best person for the task. With abortions outlawed, they no longer can do so w/o fear of prosecution which would increase the 'black market' of abortions which is MUCH less regulated and more dangerous. So by having a medical professional perform abortions is the wise decision.

as for some of the previous comments:
pre-historic means before recorded history
The person who was kidnapped and has kids with the captor, Her kids are the best thing in her life because she was still incaptivity and raising them. She had no other choice, and found a way to find joy in her children during her captivity. That is a completely different case than someone who is raped on the streets then never deals with that person again. A single rape occurance w/o captivity, the woman who goes through the pregnancy would have an increased negative outlook on the child (i would think... but all people are different) that would remind her of that single time she was victimized.

as a race, we thrive off of killing other organisms and 'rise above' others. We need flesh to consume to survive. Its a fact of life, humans take lives of other organisms which has resulted in our dominance as a species. And without nature to 'conquer' we are left with ourselves and our 'destructive' nature. All that is left is dominance over ourselves and other humans and this is what it comes down to. It would be amazing if we didnt need abortion in our lives, but that would require a MASSIVE change in our world, which frankly, I dont see coming anytime soon. Rape is about control, control over others which 'enhances' the individuals self image, makes them feel powerful. This type of 'control-seeking' is the very nature of humanity and untill we can learn, as a species, how to achieve this civilly and without harm to others, we will always need a way to 'reverse' the consequences. Abortion is our way to do so now, and I doubt that it will be non-essential in the near-future.

as for the moment life begins, IMO is when the child is born and has its first breath. But that doesnt mean its ok to have a late term abortion just because 'you dont want a child'

and the 'sluts' that have multiple abortions, should have some sort of inability to bear children imposed on them that they would have to prove that they are capable to bear children and be a good parent before it is reversed.


An interesting question arose from an earlier post: How do the pro-life people feel about assisted suicide for the elderly?

[flatscat]

Okay - here is another question - and it will happen - already is to some extent. (I am pro-life btw)

What will your opinion be when abortion based on genetic testing becomes more prevalent? We will have women having abortions because of hair color, eye color, skin color - physical appearances. Disease risks. Basically anything you can think of. And yes, sexual preferences.

[gixxerboy1]

Okay - here is another question - and it will happen - already is to some extent. (I am pro-life btw)

What will your opinion be when abortion based on genetic testing becomes more prevalent? We will have women having abortions because of hair color, eye color, skin color - physical appearances. Disease risks. Basically anything you can think of. And yes, sexual preferences.

i dont think that is ever going to happen.
what would you think if they opened up an orphanage next door to your home for all the kids that couldnt be legally aborted and were unwanted?

[flatscat]

It is already happening.

That couldn't happen - I live in the center of a ranch that is high fenced.

[JohnnyVegas]

Abortion based on genetic testing is going to become prevalent. At first among the rich, but the testing will eventually become cheap enough for everyone to do it.

The ethics are going to become messy, and people will be arguing at the tops of the lungs about this topic. I think society will be better when the populace is generally more healthy (physically and mentally), but the arguments over whether children with, for example, Down Syndrome should be born will be fiercely fought.

Personally, I am bummed that I am at the end of my baby-making years and I do not have the full benefits of these tests.

[flatscat]

Mothers have been making abortion decisions about their fetus with Down Syndrome for YEARS.

JV, are you saying you wish you were younger so you and the mother of your children could screen for all these things and make a choice based on the results?

[Flagg]

How would people feel if it was made illegal for a woman to have an abortion more than once? Once, fine...there may be a legitimate reason. But twice....?

Perhaps the punishment for having a second abortion is ensuring that the woman is sterilised.

[JohnnyVegas]

Your view is there was prehistoric time... funny question if it is "pre" historic - how did it exist? you view is it did exist my is in siecntifically didnt

Pre-historic time is the period where their was no recorded history due to lack of writing, or a lack of humans. It did exist. Dinosaurs existed during prehistoric time. If you believe that dinosaurs existed WITH humans (they didn't, but some Creationists try to make it work), then it is the time before humans developed language, or a way to record it. It isn't that things didn't happen, it is simply that we don't know what happened because there is no recorded history.

[amcon]

Pre-historic time is the period where their was no recorded history due to lack of writing, or a lack of humans. It did exist. Dinosaurs existed during prehistoric time. If you believe that dinosaurs existed WITH humans (they didn't, but some Creationists try to make it work), then it is the time before humans developed language, or a way to record it. It isn't that things didn't happen, it is simply that we don't know what happened because there is no recorded history.

this is a great study!! i will say i did believe very diff than what i do know - then read up on a guy who is named kennith hovind (spelling is close i think) and wow did my thought change on this.

doc dino you can find him under too (btw - many ppl discount his findings cuz he refuses to pay taxes, and they thru him in the slammer lol)

[lovbyts]

When it comes to abortions I typically stay out of the conversation basically because since i am not a woman, I don't have a V I don't feel I have a legitimate right to an opinion.

[JohnnyVegas]

this is a great study!! i will say i did believe very diff than what i do know - then read up on a guy who is named kennith hovind (spelling is close i think) and wow did my thought change on this.

doc dino you can find him under too (btw - many ppl discount his findings cuz he refuses to pay taxes, and they thru him in the slammer lol)

I try not to hate on creationists too much, but that guy is a nut job. I watched a couple of his videos a few years ago and thought his "scientists say we evolved from rocks" argument to be entertaining, but he ignores all science. Even other creationists distance themselves from him. I can get behind friends that believe that a deity is behind it all, but I cannot understand a person that says the universe is only a few thousand years old, and that evolution doesn't exist. I don't mean people that say humans are not evolved from apes (I continue to listen to them), I mean people that say evolution doesn't exists at all. It does exist. It is well documented. Even the Vatican says evolution exists, but that it does not exclude God.

But, creationism would need a separate thread.

/highjack

[zaggahamma]

When it comes to abortions I typically stay out of the conversation basically because since i am not a woman, I don't have a V I don't feel I have a legitimate right to an opinion.

i know wut your saying but if something becomes law then regardless man or woman...you lose/gain those rights