Why does Ar and some of the elites preach

[BBrian]

You guys have done a good job of outlining the best scenarios throughout this thread with a few different protocols to choose from, especially in Sgt Hartman's first post. Like Marcus suggested, doubling up the enanthate is an interesting avenue and makes the most sense if you're concerned with a frontload but only have a long ester, but I just can't see this having the same satisfactory results as beginning with propionate every day. Of course I've never tried it myself. And I would heavily suggest ed at 50mg instead of 100mg eod. This will only prove to enhance the frontload, and I notice a big difference when I pin prop ed instead of eod in terms of how balanced and "anabolic " I feel. Just make sure that you increase your AI dose slightly, or you'll find yourself with acne at the very beginning that will probably last throughout the cycle without Accutane. Anyway, if you frontload with prop every day for two weeks, you should feel the full effects of your compounds kicking in throughout and by the end of that second week, and then you should have enough saturation to continue with enanthate alone if you don't want to stack the prop throughout the full cycle (though I always do continue with prop myself). It won't be as powerful as frontloading with suspension (which in my experience is comparable to Anadrol at a 2:1 mg ratio, respectively), but very satisfactory nonetheless. How much enanthate were you intending to inject per week, by the way?

[Razor]

You guys have done a good job of outlining the best scenarios throughout this thread with a few different protocols to choose from, especially in Sgt Hartman's first post. Like Marcus suggested, doubling up the enanthate is an interesting avenue and makes the most sense if you're concerned with a frontload but only have a long ester, but I just can't see this having the same satisfactory results as beginning with propionate every day. Of course I've never tried it myself. And I would heavily suggest ed at 50mg instead of 100mg eod. This will only prove to enhance the frontload, and I notice a big difference when I pin prop ed instead of eod in terms of how balanced and "anabolic " I feel. Just make sure that you increase your AI dose slightly, or you'll find yourself with acne at the very beginning that will probably last throughout the cycle without Accutane. Anyway, if you frontload with prop every day for two weeks, you should feel the full effects of your compounds kicking in throughout and by the end of that second week, and then you should have enough saturation to continue with enanthate alone if you don't want to stack the prop throughout the full cycle (though I always do continue with prop myself). It won't be as powerful as frontloading with suspension (which in my experience is comparable to Anadrol at a 2:1 mg ratio, respectively), but very satisfactory nonetheless. How much enanthate were you intending to inject per week, by the way?

Thank god for you and marcus and hart..I really dont want to front load enth...that is gonna make me bloat so much and I'm already really trimming down and gonna give me bad acne up front which I dont want.. so not the ave I want to go. So my next option is prop suspension or dbol ... Suspension is a good ave for me since I am going to be going with either that or prop ED..to me Suspension rules all....and that Is what I planed on doing a while back but got off track..so suspension it is. However that is the more painful route but I will just have to suck it up. How much suspension you think ed for the first two weeks... 50mg ed same as prop?. If I do the suspension I will forget about the Dbol..or should I not? Since I need 12 lbs dbol could help me make solid gains week 1-4 at 50mg ed. I was planning on running 450mg of enth a week for 8-10 weeks. If I stop enth at week 8, could I go back to running suspension? Another thing too is I want to start pct sooner than 14 days and I know prop at the end of the cycle is good for that..could I do the same thing with suspension?

Gonna run 5-6 iu of serostim as well so that will help a ton..and run it for 3 months after...been on it 7 months already at 3-4 iu ed..so I will be going up
DD said this
I will also use the prop @50mgs ED after my last enth shot for 2 weeks then start pct 3-4 days after last prop shot. If that helps.

SO I was thinking of doing that as well

[Razor]

I have to nail this cycle and training period 200% and walk away getting everything I could..otherwise I will miss the competition and I am not going to be happy about that. I am postive I can gain 20lbs and keep 12lbs off this cycle if done right everything has to be on point to the T...summer is also coming so thats important too.

[baseline_9]

I would just keep it simple and front load with Test E and some Prop (as you already have it)

250mg Test E
100mg Test P

EOD for the first 10 days.... Then drop the Prop out if you like and add it at the end...


You will not bloat if you run an AI at a fair dose....

[Razor]

I would just keep it simple and front load with Test E and some Prop (as you already have it)

250mg Test E
100mg Test P

EOD for the first 10 days.... Then drop the Prop out if you like and add it at the end...


You will not bloat if you run an AI at a fair dose....

No way I will gain what I need to doing that though...Need better strategy and suspension or dbol or both

[BBrian]

I personally love suspension. If you would like to incorporate that, you will find that it has a couple advantages over propionate . First and foremost it peaks within hours, just like orals. But because of this, you would actually want to inject more per day than propionate. I injected 100mg every day about 5 hours prior to working out, but many prefer to split it up into two 50mg injections and that would prove to balance out your test levels more. You will also find that with frequent suspension injections, you will achieve a higher level of test saturation faster than with prop due to how quickly it peaks, which in turn will provide faster weight gain and overall "cycle affect". I've said it before, but in regards to front-loading, I consider most of the affects of 50mg Anadrol ed identical to that of 100mg Suspension every day. I have thoroughly enjoyed them at the beginning of bulking cycles (but only using one or the other). I wouldn't combine dbol and suspension, personally.

As far as finishing a cycle with suspension, yes, you can definitely use that instead of prop. And at only 450mg of enanthate per week, you should have no problems going to PCT a mere two days after your last suspension injection, having run suspension for two weeks. But you will probably find it to be far more comfortable to use prop at the end instead. Aside from not having to inject twice a day to maintain test levels, you'll also simply feel more healthy overall, as suspension raises BP very quickly, much like Anadrol does. If you wanted to, you could even use suspension as a pre-workout during those last couple weeks by injecting 50mg 3-5 hours prior.

By the way, I imagine you are going to gain much more lean muscle mass than what you stated as your goal, assuming your diet remains in check.

[Razor]

I personally love suspension. If you would like to incorporate that, you will find that it has a couple advantages over propionate . First and foremost it peaks within hours, just like orals. But because of this, you would actually want to inject more per day than propionate. I injected 100mg every day about 5 hours prior to working out, but many prefer to split it up into two 50mg injections and that would prove to balance out your test levels more. You will also find that with frequent suspension injections, you will achieve a higher level of test saturation faster than with prop due to how quickly it peaks, which in turn will provide faster weight gain and overall "cycle affect". I've said it before, but in regards to front-loading, I consider most of the affects of 50mg Anadrol ed identical to that of 100mg Suspension every day. I have thoroughly enjoyed them at the beginning of bulking cycles (but only using one or the other). I wouldn't combine dbol and suspension, personally.

As far as finishing a cycle with suspension, yes, you can definitely use that instead of prop. And at only 450mg of enanthate per week, you should have no problems going to PCT a mere two days after your last suspension injection, having run suspension for two weeks. But you will probably find it to be far more comfortable to use prop at the end instead. Aside from not having to inject twice a day to maintain test levels, you'll also simply feel more healthy overall, as suspension raises BP very quickly, much like Anadrol does. If you wanted to, you could even use suspension as a pre-workout during those last couple weeks by injecting 50mg 3-5 hours prior.

By the way, I imagine you are going to gain much more lean muscle mass than what you stated as your goal, assuming your diet remains in check.

Ok so here is the plan
GH 5-6iu ED
Week 1 Suspension 100mg ED, Test enth 250mg Adex .25 ED or as needed..HCG 250X3 week
Week 2-9 Test Enth 500mg Adex .25 ED or as needed..HCG 250X3 week
Week 10 Prop 100mg EOD Adex .25 ED or as needed..HCG 250X3 week
PCT
Clomid/Nova
50/50/25/25
40/40/20/20
Continue GH

I have Prazosin for PTSD but it also lowers BP, I take 2mg a day of that. So no worries about BP..
I have never used all the tests in a cycle b4 normally its one test, deca and dbol so this will be interesting.

[BBrian]

Ok so here is the plan
GH 5-6iu ED
Week 1-2 Suspension 100mg ED, Test enth 250mg Adex .25 ED or as needed..HCG 250X3 week
Week 2-9 Test Enth 500mg Adex .25 ED or as needed..HCG 250X3 week
Week 10 Prop 100mg EOD Adex .25 ED or as needed..HCG 250X3 week
PCT
Clomid/Nova
50/50/25/25
40/40/20/20
Continue GH

I have Prazosin for PTSD but it also lowers BP, I take 2mg a day of that. So no worries about BP..

Keep in mind that enanthate has a half-life of 10.5 days, so if you're injecting 250mg of enanthate twice weekly, 10.5 days after your last enanthate injection you would actually have somewhere around 225mg left over (keeping in mind the 2nd half-life of the first injection from week 9). This will push your PCT out a little further, as you only want around 150mg or less left for effective PCT to begin, so I'd either take the prop into week 11, or stop enanthate after the first injection of week 9. I'd also go with 500mg of enanthate weeks 1-2; you need to start building up that base test as soon as possible. Finally, I was going to suggest injecting HCG only twice per week, but as I research clinical trials involving HCG in men, I realize that the active and half life of HCG is fairly complicated. There seem to be different variables that affect the peak and degradation, and it's even more complex in women.

[Razor]

Keep in mind that enanthate has a half-life of 10.5 days, so if you're injecting 250mg of enanthate twice weekly, 10.5 days after your last enanthate injection you would actually have somewhere around 225mg left over (keeping in mind the 2nd half-life of the first injection from week 9). This will push your PCT out a little further, as you only want around 150mg or less left for effective PCT to begin, so I'd either take the prop into week 11, or stop enanthate after the first injection of week 9. I'd also go with 500mg of enanthate weeks 1-2; you need to start building up that base test as soon as possible. Finally, I was going to suggest injecting HCG only twice per week, but as I research clinical trials involving HCG in men, I realize that the active and half life of HCG is fairly complicated. There seem to be different variables that affect the peak and degradation, and it's even more complex in women.

Can you take what I wrote and edit it for me to you suggestion? My brain is fried

[BBrian]

Can you take what I wrote and edit it for me to you suggestion? My brain is fried

Sure.

GH 5-6iu ED
Week 1-2 Suspension 100mg ED, Test Enth 500mg, Adex .25 ED or as needed..HCG 250X3 week
Week 3-8 Test Enth 500mg Adex .25 ED or as needed..HCG 250X3 week
Week 9-10 Prop 100mg EOD Adex .25 ED or as needed..HCG 250X3 week

4 days after last Propionate Injection, PCT:
Clomid /Nova
50/50/25/25
40/40/20/20
Continue GH

This is what I would do, except with prop every day in 50mg injections. Combine compounds into the same syringe on enanthate days to cut down on injection sites.

[gearbox]

your awesome bbrian, thanks for the write up on exactly how to front load and end a cycle on prop if you want to

[BBrian]

your awesome bbrian, thanks for the write up on exactly how to front load and end a cycle on prop if you want to

Thanks for the kudos brother.

[gearbox]

razr- sorry I got busy at work, but you were saved by a much better choice then myself. Your cycle looks great and I love the idea on prop front and back. Great way to keep your gains.

[marcus300]

Omg I can't believe how so many are over complicating things here,
Razr you have been guided from the start by Sgt who explained a simple way and if you didn't want to go with prop just frontload with the test e.

I think I'll take a headache tablet after reading this

[Razor]

Sure.

GH 5-6iu ED
Week 1-2 Suspension 100mg ED, Test Enth 500mg, Adex .25 ED or as needed..HCG 250X3 week
Week 3-8 Test Enth 500mg Adex .25 ED or as needed..HCG 250X3 week
Week 9-10 Prop 100mg EOD Adex .25 ED or as needed..HCG 250X3 week

4 days after last Propionate Injection, PCT:
Clomid /Nova
50/50/25/25
40/40/20/20
Continue GH

This is what I would do, except with prop every day in 50mg injections. Combine compounds into the same syringe on enanthate days to cut down on injection sites.

OK so the only thing house changed was the mg of enth for the first week.. so that's a total of 700mg of suspension and 500 of enth.. that's a lot of test in one week but if you say so..and then prop everyday 100mg split into two injections.

Omg I can't believe how so many are over complicating things here,
Razr you have been guided from the start by Sgt who explained a simple way and if you didn't want to go with prop just frontload with the test e.

I think I'll take a headache tablet after reading this

Ill have one as well plz

[BBrian]

OK so the only thing house changed was the mg of enth for the first week.. so that's a total of 700mg of suspension and 500 of enth.. that's a lot of test in one week but if you say so..and then prop everyday 100mg split into two injections.

I realize that the frontload looks very intimidating dose-wise, but the main thing to keep in mind is that the Enanthate really won't have much of an effect during that time, not to mention the fact that the suspension leaves your system very quickly. It will enhance the affects of the suspension to a small degree, but not in the way that it looks. If you were combining that much prop with sus instead, then you would need to be scared. But let me just say that I did this myself on my last cycle, and it was fine.

[Razor]

I realize that the frontload looks very intimidating dose-wise, but the main thing to keep in mind is that the Enanthate really won't have much of an effect during that time, not to mention the fact that the suspension leaves your system very quickly. It will enhance the affects of the suspension to a small degree, but not in the way that it looks. If you were combining that much prop with sus instead, then you would need to be scared. But let me just say that I did this myself on my last cycle, and it was fine.

Well man I like the sound of it..I am gonna do it