Darwinism vs creationism

[frank13]

Im still confused. We are destroying the natural habitat of animals (including apes) everday, forcing them closer and closer to poulated areas, yet why is there no evidence of current evolution of apes to men being discovered today. Isn't evelution an on going and never ending process?

Seems crazy that all of the evolution occured and then just stopped with us!

_________________

[frank13]

Im still confused. We are destroying the natural habitat of animals (including apes) everday, forcing them closer and closer to poulated areas, yet why is there no evidence of current evolution of apes to men being discovered today. Isn't evelution an on going and never ending process?

Seems crazy that all of the evolution occured and then just stopped with us!

lunk your starting to sound like sarah palin

[Lunk1]

lunk your starting to sound like sarah palin

I can't see Russia from my house lol!

[Lunk1]

Evolution never stops, not until a species becomes extinct. Also a huge flaw in creatonism. Why do so many animals have vestigial structures, (structures which serve no current purpose, but had a purpose at some point in the time line of life) why do humans have a coccyx (tailbone), why do whales have leg bones, why do flightless birds have wings, why do blind, cavedwelling creatures have eyes, why do boas have pelvis remnants. All of these vestigial traits clearly point to evolution.

Thats my point about man evolving from primates...if it never stops then why is there not primates today in different stages of evolving into humans>?

[frank13]

I can't see Russia from my house lol!

hahahahahahaha

[ShredMN]

Thats my point about man evolving from primates...if it never stops then why is there not primates today in different stages of evolving into humans>?

We evolved from a common species, some of those individuals evolved into modern apes, while others evolved into what we call humans. There was not a need for all of the common species to evolve into humans.

[Lunk1]

We evolved from a common species, some of those individuals evolved into modern apes, while others evolved into what we call humans. There was not a need for all of the common species to evolve into humans.

Why would there NOT be a need for them to evolve into the same species. Who decided how many should evolve into humans

[ShredMN]

Why would there NOT be a need for them to evolve into the same species. Who decided how many should evolve into humans

The environment decided. Do some research on natural selection.

[--->>405<<---]

JV u only have to looks as far as Genesis to see a refutation of evolution.

[JD250]

Even Darwin had doubts........ "But then with me the horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind, which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?"

— Charles Darwin, to William Graham 3 July 1881[

[Lunk1]

The environment decided. Do some research on natural selection.

So are you saying that the evolution of primate to human has stopped? Or whatever the original specieswas that you say evolved into both primate and human. Has there been physical evidence found of the primary species or of the species in different stages of evolution??

[--->>405<<---]

Lunk take a step back and think about how ridiculous it sounds that we (humans) came from apes. There is no creator and this universe is just by chance. Everything came from a big bang and the big bang came from nothing.

I suggest u spend some time in prayer alone and ask god to show u some things. He is faithful. Ask ur wife. Arguing with someone aBout humans. COming from apes is not gonna give u the answer ur looking for. Science says the earth is billions of urs old. God says its severL thousand.

Who r u gonna believe? Man or God? Do u think its not possible for God to make the earth in the manner he chose and have things appear they took billions of yrs to form even though they didnt if he wanted to?

[--->>405<<---]

I am going to step in and just say this.

I have had this fruitless discussion a hundred times. You CANNOT develop a rational argument that will persuade those that believe in god. Belief in god is not a Rational decision, but an emotional one! And the same is true for those that embrace science. Emotion has no place in a scientific discussion.

I can sit here all day and poke holes in the bible and show a variety of major contradictions, but it does no good! Being rational/logical will not change the opinion of someone that will not embrace the scientific method.

IMHO, this discussion is as fruitless as Republicans and Democrats trying to find compromise.

But this thread WILL attract alot of attention!

Considering there are no real contrdictions in the bible TR id have to say thats a pretty bold statement u made. While some things appear to contradict each other to the enlightened believer and bible scholars everything in he bible complements itself!

Id be real interested to see u come up with 3..

The bible has withstood criticism from the entire world and still holds strong. Why do u think that is? Its because God wrote it

[ShredMN]

I suggest u spend some time in prayer alone and ask god to show u some things.

When one man speaks to something that isn't there, he's labeled schizophrenic, but when millions speak to something that isn't there, it's called religion. Both are equally crazy, one of the groups just hasn't been diagnosed. However I truly believe in some sort of creator, and the human spirit, but to deny evolution is lunacy. I also shun organized religion, as it has no place in this world during these times. But that's not to say that I do not believe in some sort of creator, I just don't buy into bullshit created by some self-proclaimed "prophet." To think that there isn't some sort of intelligent being greater than humans in the universe is as crazy as believing in religion. But truthfully, organized religion is the biggest hoax on this planet.

[ShredMN]

The bible has withstood criticism from the entire world and still holds strong. Why do u think that is? Its because God wrote it

False, it's because there are still people crazy enough to believe it.

[AD]

time-out

[Lunk1]

Lunk take a step back and think about how ridiculous it sounds that we (humans) came from apes. There is no creator and this universe is just by chance. Everything came from a big bang and the big bang came from nothing.

I suggest u spend some time in prayer alone and ask god to show u some things. He is faithful. Ask ur wife. Arguing with someone aBout humans. COming from apes is not gonna give u the answer ur looking for. Science says the earth is billions of urs old. God says its severL thousand.

Who r u gonna believe? Man or God? Do u think its not possible for God to make the earth in the manner he chose and have things appear they took billions of yrs to form even though they didnt if he wanted to?

Oh please lord don't make me ask my wife about religion...hows that for praying 405 lol?

I can argue both sides of this debate equally. I am just seeing if anyone has any definitive answers!

[Lunk1]

Remember guys...this subject is touchy because it has religion involved...please remain respectful with comments. It would be great to see ppl be able to have a hot topic debate without acting poorly and forgetting respect. Thanks all!

[--->>405<<---]

When one man speaks to something that isn't there, he's labeled schizophrenic, but when millions speak to something that isn't there, it's called religion. Both are equally crazy, one of the groups just hasn't been diagnosed. However I truly believe in some sort of creator, and the human spirit, but to deny evolution is lunacy. I also shun organized religion, as it has no place in this world during these times. But that's not to say that I do not believe in some sort of creator, I just don't buy into bullshit created by some self-proclaimed "prophet." To think that there isn't some sort of intelligent being greater than humans in the universe is as crazy as believing in religion. But truthfully, organized religion is the biggest hoax on this planet.

Shred ill say this: i used to think like u. I used to question everything and think i was smarter than everyone. My mom would tell me to "give it to god" and id think "yeh rite whats he gonna do".

U know what i figured out? I figured out i was full of crap and prideful and viewed my opinions in very high regard without warrant. All these opinions i had were meaningless based on nothing other than the fact that i thought i was mister smart guy. U know what else? I found out i was wrong. It just took many yrs and alot of pain. And a few close calls with death.

Fortunately i was blessed enuff to make it to my faith before i was taken out of this world and sent to where i deserved to go. I hope u can one day say the same thing my man! The second death is something no one will want to endure! This i can promise. Eternity will be a long time to mull over that regret...

[ShredMN]

I don't think I'm smarter than everyone by any means. I do know I will never buy into organized religion though. In my opinion, the soul is reincarnated into something else upon death. I believe in a god, or creator, or superior being, or what have you. But I do not, and will not ever believe in organized religion. My belief in something greater is enough for me, I don't need to pray to anything or anyone to prove anything to anyone.

[--->>405<<---]

Lunk i have fasted cardio at 0530 sp i have to go to bed. Some of the answers ur looking for my pastor could prob help u with. BUT... Remember.. Christianity requires FAITH.. It is easy to believe in something that is concrete in ur hand. The ways of God are not always like this. God made it this way for a reason.

Ill pray for u brother. Its good this is on ur mind. Dont let people influence ur decision. Take it to the lord, get a bible and start with John chapter 1. Read it and pray. God will do the rest my man!

[Times Roman]

Considering there are no real contrdictions in the bible TR id have to say thats a pretty bold statement u made. While some things appear to contradict each other to the enlightened believer and bible scholars everything in he bible complements itself!

Id be real interested to see u come up with 3..

The bible has withstood criticism from the entire world and still holds strong. Why do u think that is? Its because God wrote it

unfortunately, the only ones that can't see the contradictions are the ones that devotely believe. Again, you cannot make a rational argument with someone that clings to an emotionally based decision. For example, here are three real quick contradictions:

1) Noah's arc was nowhere big enough to hold two of every animal on the face of the earth, as the bible asserts.

2) The earth is billions of years old according to modern scientific methods, but the bible says the earth was created only a few thousand years ago

3) Christianity claims to be monothiestic, ONE GOD. but on the eve of the crucification, Jesus (the embodiment of god) went out alone to pray. Who was he praying to if he IS god? If Jesus IS god, then why would he need to pray to himself? This defies the tenent of only one god.

Actually, there are huge lists out there with an enormous amounts of contradictions.

Again, i really am not trying to persuade you into thinking any other way than the way you think now.

[JD250]

"Religion" Has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion, it's part of this discussion because some people can only parrot what their college professors spewed in one of their classes at some point.....organized religion blah blah blah, those statements are lame and useless in discussing evolution.

I have a question for the Darwinians in the crowd........ what do you think of materialism as defined by Stephen J Gould?

For the creationists....... Do you totally deny that ANY sort of evolution has taken place? Is it possible to believe in both evolution and creation?

[Times Roman]

"Religion" Has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion, it's part of this discussion because some people can only parrot what their college professors spewed in one of their classes at some point.....organized religion blah blah blah, those statements are lame and useless in discussing evolution.

I have a question for the Darwinians in the crowd........ what do you think of materialism as defined by Stephen J Gould?

For the creationists....... Do you totally deny that ANY sort of evolution has taken place? Is it possible to believe in both evolution and creation?

I believe as Gould believes in that evolution is NOT smooth and predictable, but instead happens after extraordinary events occur. Large populations die off due to (climate change, comets crashing into the earth, extreme volcanic activity, etc.), and with only a very small population remaining, the magnifying effects of adaptation to these environmental changes become profound. Those not possessing these adaptations die off, those with the adaptation successfully live and breed. So evolution may not happen for thousands/millions of years, and then almost overnight, new species evolve and proliferate.

[AD]

...Actually, there are huge lists out there with an enormous amounts of contradictions....

there are probably a million and one "contradictions" in the bible. if you look for an anti-christianity website, they will have an endless list. but if you look for a christian website, you'll find a lot of these questions are already answered.

i found this one from google.
http://christiananswers.net/q-comfor...ons-bible.html

i'm sure more can be found if you dont find the enough answers.

[Times Roman]

there are probably a million and one "contradictions" in the bible. if you look for an anti-christianity website, they will have an endless list. but if you look for a christian website, you'll find a lot of these questions are already answered.

i found this one from google.
http://christiananswers.net/q-comfor...ons-bible.html

i'm sure more can be found if you dont find the enough answers.

there are many biblical scholars that admit biblical contradictions. Very intelligent, very devout christians that have an amazing amount of education are very candid about these contradictions.

An interesting, and classical read, is the passover plot, that tries to explain what was going on during the time of Jesus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passover_Plot

http://www.amazon.com/Passover-Plot-...lot+schonfield

during the time of jesus, there were many prophits and miracles occuring. The interesting thing is how jesus ended up standing out from the rest.

I need to stop mates. I'm not a biblical scholar, and I keep saying i'm going to stop, but like a moth to the flame, I keep coming back! =)

Very interesting topic, to say the least!

Peace
---Roman

[lovbyts]

Well I'm one of those who believe it's a mix. I don't think everything was created (so to speak) in 7 days. Maybe we were seeded her. I believe we have evolved from a much lessor life form but still a humanoid life form, not a tad pole or amoeba. The earth has been around for millions of years and gone though many changes all making us evolve/adapt over time. I think/hope will will continue to evolve past the point of thinking we are the center of the universe or all knowing/powerful without getting our asses handed to us or wiped out. lol

[Lunk1]

"Religion" Has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion, it's part of this discussion because some people can only parrot what their college professors spewed in one of their classes at some point.....organized religion blah blah blah, those statements are lame and useless in discussing evolution.

I have a question for the Darwinians in the crowd........ what do you think of materialism as defined by Stephen J Gould?

For the creationists....... Do you totally deny that ANY sort of evolution has taken place? Is it possible to believe in both evolution and creation?

I agree with JD...this thread was not meant to spark a religious argument. Only an intelligent discussion on Darwinism vs Creationisim.

I for one appreciate both sides of this topic and I understand and appreciate both sides passion when the argue religion. That is not the intent here as we all no how arguments bour religion and politics end up.

405...Thank you for the prayers...GOD knows I need em . I am not sure I ever said I don't believe. I just question alot (too often I'm sure). I do hope to one day have the devoted faith you have found. Hell look at this way, even if you were totally wrong, what have you lost? If your totally right, look what you have gained

[Rwy]

Im still confused. We are destroying the natural habitat of animals (including apes) everday, forcing them closer and closer to poulated areas, yet why is there no evidence of current evolution of apes to men being discovered today. Isn't evelution an on going and never ending process?

Seems crazy that all of the evolution occured and then just stopped with us!

We are evolving by the day. People are smarter and more gifted physically.

[*Admin*]

I do expect this to stay cival... it is in the lounge and it is labeled correctly so if someone comes in and does not want to remain cival you may find yourself suspended for a few days to cool off... this is a touchy subject but one that adults should be able to handle no matter how you believe or think... everyone is allowed their own opinion... thank you


Respect

*admin*

[Lunk1]

We are evolving by the day. People are smarter and more gifted physically.

Seems as if just as many, if not more are DE-evolving mentaly lol

[JD250]

Seems as if just as many, if not more are DE-evolving mentaly lol

That's an unfortunate yet true statement, any local news paper will bear testament to that.

[Hoggage_54]

[Wazz]

I am going to step in and just say this.

I have had this fruitless discussion a hundred times. You CANNOT develop a rational argument that will persuade those that believe in god. Belief in god is not a Rational decision, but an emotional one! And the same is true for those that embrace science. Emotion has no place in a scientific discussion.

I can sit here all day and poke holes in the bible and show a variety of major contradictions, but it does no good! Being rational/logical will not change the opinion of someone that will not embrace the scientific method.

IMHO, this discussion is as fruitless as Republicans and Democrats trying to find compromise.

But this thread WILL attract alot of attention!

This sums up my thoughts to the thread.

Darwin/creation ehh... Without getting into an argument. I no longer believe in the "biblical" God. Been to way to many countries & wars to believe that there are "tests" children burned alive & much much worse... Is there an all powerful something out there, maybe a God? I think so.

Could God be the biblical version, idk? Something has to be out there, our planet is young & Hubble shows us billions of years into the past & those places have evolved. Religion keeps changing with the times. I remember when the Vatican said life could ONLY be on earth, nowadays they say life could exist else ware.

Religion = Money, Control & I have yet to visit a place of worship that didn't eventually want funds.

Again this is my opinion. I have immense respect for believers & there right to worship. Just dont push religion on me. If I keel over & I'm judged, fine... But I expect answers......

[Ernst]

Seems as if just as many, if not more are DE-evolving mentaly lol

And all we did was remove natural selection....

[stpete]

OK, TR...

Where do i send my 20? i am out of here. hahahaha....Not going to say anything my friend. You got me!













Asshole. hahahahahahahahahahhaahah...

[milky01623]

Wow what a thread lol

I'm just going to say I was taught in a catholic school by a teacher who was a devout catholic but taught science with a passion he taught me this
Evolution is undeniable fact but god is the representation of ultimate faith and nearly all humans need something to believe in and trust

Personally I believe Darwin and his theory of evolution
There was a programme about 2 weeks ago on the bbc over here called "prehistoric autopsy" I think it's on iplayer watch this as they produce 3 different models from skeletons found
All 3 are over 5000 years old

[songdog]

Maybe we will get the real answer when we die! Who knows for sure you can go round and round on this topic.And it always ends the same.At the BEGINGING!

[milky01623]

Maybe we will get the real answer when we die! Who knows for sure you can go round and round on this topic.And it always ends the same.At the BEGINGING!

How true

[lovbyts]

Maybe it's all the Matrix???????