Now THIS is gonna make for an interesting gun control thread.....

[dan991]

County Sheriff's telling Obama ; they aren't gonna enforce any Federal Laws that they believe violate the 2nd Amendment or is an attempt to disarm citizens.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-l...er-guns/nT4cF/

In an open letter, Garrison accused President Obama, Vice President Joe Biden and some members of Congress of “attempting to exploit the deaths of innocent victims” to prevent “law-abiding American citizens from possessing certain firearms and ammunition magazines.”

[gixxerboy1]

Then they should all loose their job.. Nothing to do with gun control or not. Their job is to uphold and enforce the laws. Their job is not to pick and choose which one or decide what violates any constitution or rights. So if they will not do their job they should loose their job like anyone else.

[Lunk1]

They don't work for the Prez...the Sheriff is an elected position and therefore the only way he can "lose" his job is by not getting re-elected.

[gixxerboy1]

They don't work for the Prez...the Sheriff is an elected position and therefore the only way he can "lose" his job is by not getting re-elected.

The county they should work for fire them. I understand they are elected but i would assume if they are openly stating they arent going to enforce the laws there would be a way to remove them. Granted it wouldnt be a simple as you or i getting fired.

[Lunk1]

Also keep in mind..as a "local LE they have no authority to enforce fed law anyhow. If that were possible then imagine all of the local LE enforcing immagration...it would be great lol!

You can't fire an elected official...no one has that authority! Also LE excersises descretion all of the time...they don't enforce EVERY traffic violation they witness...who's to demand they enforce gun laws with any different level of "descretion"

[dan991]

Damnit... Lunk said everything I was gonna say....

The interesting part will be see what the government will do if a majority of County Sheriff's respond this way. It's not like the ATF patrol the streets so the feds are gonna have a hard time enforcing gun laws if the local's aren't willing to make an arrest or charge anyone.

[gixxerboy1]

your right fire wouldnt be the correct wording. But there would have to be a way to remove them from office.

I do agree with you on the discretion, And really what is said by the op is vague. So i guess it depends on what they arent willing to enforce. If its something that would allow discretion or not. Guess its all vague.

[dan991]

Honestly, I don't think any of the gun control measures Obama/Biden put out there are gonna make it. The second they define the laws the NRA is gonna challenge it in the Supreme Court and then its gonna be a long drawn out battle. NRA is no joke; they have a ton of money, political pull, and even new members that weren't there before the school shooting.

[Lunk1]

your right fire wouldnt be the correct wording. But there would have to be a way to remove them from office.

I do agree with you on the discretion, And really what is said by the op is vague. So i guess it depends on what they arent willing to enforce. If its something that would allow discretion or not. Guess its all vague.

Honestly I doubt the local citizens will call for an impeachment. There possible could be a criminal charge for refusing o enforse said law but I doubt there is. You would be shocked at the power a Sheriff has because of them being the only elected LE

[spywizard]

Then they should all loose their job.. Nothing to do with gun control or not. Their job is to uphold and enforce the laws. Their job is not to pick and choose which one or decide what violates any constitution or rights. So if they will not do their job they should loose their job like anyone else.

yea, like the feds not enforcing deportation laws, or pot laws... oh wait.. that's the feds not enforcing or prosecuting people.. hmmm

so the federal gov knows best but those that live in the state/land do not.....

[gixxerboy1]

Honestly, I don't think any of the gun control measures Obama/Biden put out there are gonna make it. The second they define the laws the NRA is gonna challenge it in the Supreme Court and then its gonna be a long drawn out battle. NRA is no joke; they have a ton of money, political pull, and even new members that weren't there before the school shooting.

I dont get how they can challange back ground checks and some of the other provisions.
And as for a ban on clips and types of weapons it has already been done. Unless there is something completely different there is already presidnet from the previous law.
They keep claiming all the people that have signed up since the school shooting, but reportedly alot of people have also canceled their memberships since they heard the NRA's response to it

[gixxerboy1]

yea, like the feds not enforcing deportation laws, or pot laws... oh wait.. that's the feds not enforcing or prosecuting people.. hmmm

so the federal gov knows best but those that live in the state/land do not.....

they all should be enforced.

[dan991]

I dont get how they can challange back ground checks and some of the other provisions.
And as for a ban on clips and types of weapons it has already been done. Unless there is something completely different there is already presidnet from the previous law.
They keep claiming all the people that have signed up since the school shooting, but reportedly alot of people have also canceled their memberships since they heard the NRA's response to it

Anything can be challenged. Even the existing laws are out of whack. What are your thoughts about a felon owning a gun?

[Lunk1]

Honestly, I don't think any of the gun control measures Obama/Biden put out there are gonna make it. The second they define the laws the NRA is gonna challenge it in the Supreme Court and then its gonna be a long drawn out battle. NRA is no joke; they have a ton of money, political pull, and even new members that weren't there before the school shooting.

Their membership has grown to an astonishing number! I agree that thos is a non issue and morethan likely just a political move by the Sheriff for his constituants! I would bet the Sheriff is a Republican

[Lunk1]

I dont get how they can challange back ground checks and some of the other provisions.
And as for a ban on clips and types of weapons it has already been done. Unless there is something completely different there is already presidnet from the previous law.
They keep claiming all the people that have signed up since the school shooting, but reportedly alot of people have also canceled their memberships since they heard the NRA's response to it

Keep in mind the Heller decision passed down by the current Supreme Court about 4 years ago may stop the same thing from happening that did during the Brady bill!

[gixxerboy1]

Anything can be challenged. Even the existing laws are out of whack. What are your thoughts about a felon owning a gun?

Honestly depends on what the felony was. But if its an all or nothing thing i say they dont get a gun.

[Lunk1]

Honestly depends on what the felony was. But if its an all or nothing thing i say they dont get a gun.

What would be an example of a felony someone was convicted of where you think they SHOULD own a gun?

[Metalject]

The sherifs who will not enforce federal gun laws are entailed by law to hold that position. This is an issue that affects many different things, not just gun control in that states are entitled by right to dictate what their citizens can and cannot do. If you do not like what your state does then move to another one, you have 49 other options. We are not a country that is held or bound to the law of a federal government, there are a hundred other countries around the world that hold to that law and this is largely what has separated us from the rest. It is also something we continue to forget and throw in the trash can as many tend to look at the federal government as their savior or protector of justice when they are anything but. Federal legislation is so many areas has long been overreaching its bounds and continues to do so and we continue to allow because we have either become stupid or ignorant and while there's a difference it's not by much.

If true gun control measures are taken, if confiscations and things of that nature ever occur, I hope people who are faced with this will look at the federal government and simply say "then arrest me." What, are they going to rest 100 million Americans? Are they going to arrest the majority of the tax paying Americans? Not a chance.

Interesting side note - I've heard a few commentators say if enforcement laws are enacted on the federal level most sherifs won't support them but many city police departments will. The idea or theory is that many of the city police departments are corrupt and so strongly tied to federal funding now they'd basically shove barbwire up their ass if their money depended on it. I tend to agree, at least from the experiences in my own life. I'm not saying all city police officers are horrible people but those departments do appear to have a level of corruption that surpasses counties far too often. There may be more to it than I realize but that's how it appears.

[Metalject]

On the felon owning a gun thing....if you've paid your time and are deemed a citizen again and have proven yourself a trustworthy citizen you should have the right to own a gun. You were denied for rights when punished, you should not be denied them once punishment is over. The exception would be putting guns in the hands of murders and rapist and things of that nature...you know, people who shouldn't get out of prison in the first place. Non-violent criminals, there's no need to ban them from their rights once they've paid their time, doing so is actually ridiculous.

[Lunk1]

On the felon owning a gun thing....if you've paid your time and are deemed a citizen again and have proven yourself a trustworthy citizen you should have the right to own a gun. You were denied for rights when punished, you should not be denied them once punishment is over. The exception would be putting guns in the hands of murders and rapist and things of that nature...you know, people who shouldn't get out of prison in the first place. Non-violent criminals, there's no need to ban them from their rights once they've paid their time, doing so is actually ridiculous.

Losing the right to own firearms for life is part of the punishment..it doesn't end when you walk out of the prison door. There are procedures where one can apply to get their rights restored. It's not easy or cheap!

[gixxerboy1]

What would be an example of a felony someone was convicted of where you think they SHOULD own a gun?

a dwi could be a felony. as an example

On the felon owning a gun thing....if you've paid your time and are deemed a citizen again and have proven yourself a trustworthy citizen you should have the right to own a gun. You were denied for rights when punished, you should not be denied them once punishment is over. The exception would be putting guns in the hands of murders and rapist and things of that nature...you know, people who shouldn't get out of prison in the first place. Non-violent criminals, there's no need to ban them from their rights once they've paid their time, doing so is actually ridiculous.

I do agree with this but there should be a time period after there punishment is over before they could again. Just because someone did the time in jail or prison doesnt mean they changed. I think they have to earn the right again by proving they can be responsible and not get in trouble over a period of time.

[Lunk1]

a dwi could be a felony. as an example



I do agree with this but there should be a time period after there punishment is over before they could again. Just because someone did the time in jail or prison doesnt mean they changed. I think they have to earn the right again by proving they can be responsible and not get in trouble over a period of time.

This state it takes a 3rd offense t be a felony...**** em if they are that dumb. They obviousy have an alcohol problem and by all rights shouldnt have a gun anyhow!

[Metalject]

a dwi could be a felony. as an example



I do agree with this but there should be a time period after there punishment is over before they could again. Just because someone did the time in jail or prison doesnt mean they changed. I think they have to earn the right again by proving they can be responsible and not get in trouble over a period of time.

That's why I said "proven yourself a trustworthy citizen."

I do wonder how many guys on here have ever thought or considered that if they are ever arrested for their steroid use there is a very good chance they will have a felony charge against them and lose rights like gun ownership. Everyone thinks it's unlikely but it happens all the time...I don't know how many guys I've known over the years get into gear related trouble and it is so easy for personal use that you might think is merely a misdemeanor to turn into a felony if the court desires....very, very easy. Anyway, by law that guy will never own a gun again, never....even if he never took from anyone or hurt a soul, he will never own a gun and be allowed to protect himself or his family. He will have to rely on "first responders" who are great when you need someone in thirty minutes or so but pretty useless in the heat of the moment.

[Lunk1]

That's why I said "proven yourself a trustworthy citizen."

I do wonder how many guys on here have ever thought or considered that if they are ever arrested for their steroid use there is a very good chance they will have a felony charge against them and lose rights like gun ownership. Everyone thinks it's unlikely but it happens all the time...I don't know how many guys I've known over the years get into gear related trouble and it is so easy for personal use that you might think is merely a misdemeanor to turn into a felony if the court desires....very, very easy. Anyway, by law that guy will never own a gun again, never....even if he never took from anyone or hurt a soul, he will never own a gun and be allowed to protect himself or his family. He will have to rely on "first responders" who are great when you need someone in thirty minutes or so but pretty useless in the heat of the moment.

Alll action comes with consaquences! If you do the crime and all that jazz! Law is clear and everyone knows it...Felons can't own gund! Just don't become a felon if you care about gun ownership!

[< <Samson> >]

I love our legal talk. We are all law abiding citizens here, come on.

The shit we do is as illegal as having a full auto tommy gun in a trunk of a car.

Law, yeah sure of course.

[Metalject]

Alll action comes with consaquences! If you do the crime and all that jazz! Law is clear and everyone knows it...Felons can't own gund! Just don't become a felon if you care about gun ownership!

I understand and I'm not disagreeing with what you said. But a law does not make something just, that is not how justice and rights are defined. One of my favorite quotes of all time "An unjust law is no law" St. Augustine.

[dan991]

Losing the right to own firearms for life is part of the punishment..it doesn't end when you walk out of the prison door. There are procedures where one can apply to get their rights restored. It's not easy or cheap!

So.. what your saying is that if you possess enough Tren and get caught with it you don't have the right to protect yourself or family with a firearm?

[dan991]

What would be an example of a felony someone was convicted of where you think they SHOULD own a gun?

Sure... anything that is not a crime of violence, crime against children, crimes using force or threats, etc.

If you bounce a check for $200.00 or more in most states; that's a felony. So... because you're a dumb ass that can't balance your check book you don't have the right to protect yourself? How about speeding 25+ over the speed limit? That's called Wreckless Endangerment in IL and a felony. I can't have a gun because I got caught doing 80 in a 55 on the freeway?

And my point in the original question is not to argue which felons should be allowed to own a gun; its to show that the laws are outdated with the times. 10 years ago you could piss on the side of a building and not care. Today you get caught pissing on the side of a building your a sex offender. The laws about "felons" owning firearms is a small piece of a bigger problem; federal gun laws don't jive with state gun laws on many levels and the gun laws are outdated.

[dan991]

This state it takes a 3rd offense t be a felony...**** em if they are that dumb. They obviousy have an alcohol problem and by all rights shouldnt have a gun anyhow!

Wrong, you can be charged with a felony DUI on your first offense. All you have to do for that is cause damage to property or another person and your first offense just became a felony. Hit a parked car and your done regardless of how much damage you even did. You could love tap it at 2 mph and not leave a scratch but its still a felony. Happened to a friend of mine at 19 years old. He got drunk and hit a parked car at like 5 mph on the side of the street. Cops showed up (he called in the accident), he blew over 0.08 and was charged with a felony DUI on his first offense.

[warmouth]

On the felon owning a gun thing....if you've paid your time and are deemed a citizen again and have proven yourself a trustworthy citizen you should have the right to own a gun. You were denied for rights when punished, you should not be denied them once punishment is over. The exception would be putting guns in the hands of murders and rapist and things of that nature...you know, people who shouldn't get out of prison in the first place. Non-violent criminals, there's no need to ban them from their rights once they've paid their time, doing so is actually ridiculous.

I couldnt have said it any better Metalject. This is exactly my feelings. Those idiots should never be able to see the light of day again. And while I am at it, they should be on death row. Not the long drawn out 10-15 years of us suppling the money to keep them, but "found guily, scheduled to die today at 3.30pm". There are sickos out there who have raped little prepubescent girl(s) and are out walking the streets getting government handouts until they are on their feet. I am ranting, and I am sorry. But the people you described need doen to them what this country did in the 1800s and early 1900s and taken out to town square, and dropped by thier necks during a scheduled excecution. That would deter some more than likely. Once again, I got fired up and I am sorry. You guys want my opinions on gun laws? I think we can all agree on my stance, unless you are just against guns.

[warmouth]

Here is another question. Do you guys even know a felon that doesnt own a gun? I dont. My whole family are fellons. Other than us, over here on the good side.

[dan991]

I know 3 felons; 2 of them own guns. One is a felon because he beat some dude into a coma that raped his sister; the other is a felon for stealing a TV out the back door of Sears where he worked in the loading dock when he was younger (like 20). Both had their wives buy guns to keep in the home.

[warmouth]

Guys........Did yall notice name drop from Metal? It ws awesome! A St. Augustine quote, here onthis forum. One of my favorite early church fathers!

[Honkey_Kong]

Anything can be challenged. Even the existing laws are out of whack. What are your thoughts about a felon owning a gun?

This is a simple answer. When a felon is released from prison and not on parole/probation, their debt to society is paid for. If they're still a danger to us, then what are we doing letting them out of prison? So my answer is they should be able to have a gun just like a non-felon should be able to.

Mind you guys, I'm not pro-gun. I'm pro-getting-rid-of bullshit legislation.

[evander87]

This is a simple answer. When a felon is released from prison and not on parole/probation, their debt to society is paid for. If they're still a danger to us, then what are we doing letting them out of prison? So my answer is they should be able to have a gun just like a non-felon should be able to.

Mind you guys, I'm not pro-gun. I'm pro-getting-rid-of bullshit legislation.

I respectfully disagree. If you commit a serious enough crime to be considered a felony and are convicted part of your punishment is the jail time / probation, the other part is you forfeit your rights to vote and carry a gun for life.

[dan991]

I respectfully disagree. If you commit a serious enough crime to be considered a felony and are convicted part of your punishment is the jail time / probation, the other part is you forfeit your rights to vote and carry a gun for life.

So again... you're saying that if you get caught doing 25 mph over the speed limit you should lose your right to vote and own a firearm? A "felony" has nothing to do with how serious a crime is. Anything that has a possible sentence of 366 days in jail or more is a felony. The possession of anabolic steroids is a felony.... and there are a lot of trivial crimes that are felonies. Nobody is saying give someone who just got of prison for manslaughter a gun, or someone who's been locked up for armed robbery. BUT... the law says "all felonies" are an exclusion.

[RaginCajun]

I give the Sheriff two thumbs up!

With the given laws that NY passed, even LE are carrying illegally.

I think every little word needs to be read before they pass any of these stupid laws. The only one I agree with is the back ground checks.

Remember when Obama said he/USA needed a national private civilian security force as big as the US military! It was in the Health Bill that he said he can appoint people to certain positions in the case of a national crisis that answer directly to him.????

And another thing I hate is how they keep saying that the people killed was by an assault rifle! Pretty sure it was two 9mm pistols.

I was at a gun show over the past weekend and I saw one cat there that looked like he escaped from the looney bin! No way in hell I would want that cat having a fire arm. He had on one of those pilot head warmers, army green jacket, and his eyes could not stay focused on anything. Koo koo loo loo!!!

[ElDude]

So again... you're saying that if you get caught doing 25 mph over the speed limit you should lose your right to vote and own a firearm? A "felony" has nothing to do with how serious a crime is. Anything that has a possible sentence of 366 days in jail or more is a felony. The possession of anabolic steroids is a felony.... and there are a lot of trivial crimes that are felonies. Nobody is saying give someone who just got of prison for manslaughter a gun, or someone who's been locked up for armed robbery. BUT... the law says "all felonies" are an exclusion.

Felonies are felonies for a reason... It is USUALLY a pretty major crime. Some, I agree may be trivial such as small possesion of CERTAIN drugs. Others are major... I think people who are convicted of rape, murder or child molestation should have a bullet put in between his eyes as soon as he is convicted. It would save us tax dollars and get rid of a piece of shit on this earth! 25MPH over the speed limit ain't a felony. it is a major traffic violation. Also, if you are a convicted felon you are allowed to get your right to vote/bear arms back depending on the state you live in. It can be a long and arduous process, but it does and can happen.

[ElDude]

This is a simple answer. When a felon is released from prison and not on parole/probation, their debt to society is paid for. If they're still a danger to us, then what are we doing letting them out of prison? So my answer is they should be able to have a gun just like a non-felon should be able to.

Mind you guys, I'm not pro-gun. I'm pro-getting-rid-of bullshit legislation.

Whaaaaaaa?! I totally disagree with that. If a murderer is released from prison and not on probation he is still and always will be a murderer. Just because he spends time in prison does not mean he comes out a rehabilitated person. Prison has quite the opposite effect on people. Over half of prison populations end up back in jail/prison within a year of them getting out. Prison may rehabilitate a few but not the majority.

[dan991]

Felonies are felonies for a reason... It is USUALLY a pretty major crime. Some, I agree may be trivial such as small possesion of CERTAIN drugs. Others are major... I think people who are convicted of rape, murder or child molestation should have a bullet put in between his eyes as soon as he is convicted. It would save us tax dollars and get rid of a piece of shit on this earth! 25MPH over the speed limit ain't a felony. it is a major traffic violation. Also, if you are a convicted felon you are allowed to get your right to vote/bear arms back depending on the state you live in. It can be a long and arduous process, but it does and can happen.

In the state of IL... speeding 25 over is wreckless endangerment; a felony punishable by up to 5 years in prison. Do you find bouncing a check for $200.00 a "major crime"? Its a felony in most state and they do in fact enforce it. Reality is that there are a lot of PETTY crimes that are felonies; none which should remove a citizens right to bear arms.

The problem with "some states" being where your rights get restored is that the feds do NOT see it that way. Once you are convicted of a felony per Federal Law you are not legally allowed to own a firearm regardless of what the state does with your rights. The fact that most states use the FBI NCIC instant check system at gun sale points means that a convicted felon cannot purchase a firearm because the fed system will tell the dealer to deny the sale. So, the state may say yes but the feds say no. Which is it? THAT is where the gun laws must be re-written at the federal level otherwise the citizen is the one that's gonna ultimately pay the consequences.