The American Government shutdown

[ppwc1985]

Either way whether is the affordable healthcare act or not your still paying for it. Your actually paying more right now because ppl who have no insurance go to the ER than don't pay and we end up paying it. Ppl talk about this thing and how bad it is and it ain't even here yet. I say don't make ppl pay fines, if you don't want healthcare than when you do get sick it's cash up front or go out back and dig yourself a hole. As far as fines being unconstitutional maybe they are, but I have to have auto insurance or I get fined so don't act like this is the first time you gonna have to pay a fine for not purchasing something. Quit paying these fools for the rest of their lives. Presidents, senators, and congressmen get paid the rest of their lives. They shouldn't get paid at all, it was never meant to be a career. Quit giving our money to other nations, there is a lot worse things to be crying about besides healthcare.

[Fcastle357]

Either way whether is the affordable healthcare act or not your still paying for it. Your actually paying more right now because ppl who have no insurance go to the ER than don't pay and we end up paying it. Ppl talk about this thing and how bad it is and it ain't even here yet. I say don't make ppl pay fines, if you don't want healthcare than when you do get sick it's cash up front or go out back and dig yourself a hole. As far as fines being unconstitutional maybe they are, but I have to have auto insurance or I get fined so don't act like this is the first time you gonna have to pay a fine for not purchasing something. Quit paying these fools for the rest of their lives. Presidents, senators, and congressmen get paid the rest of their lives. They shouldn't get paid at all, it was never meant to be a career. Quit giving our money to other nations, there is a lot worse things to be crying about besides healthcare.

You fail to see the big picture. Just let this pass. Then the next thing and the one after that. Why because we already pay for stuff. Your are brainwashed already. Lets continue to let the government do these things. This is huge. Wake up.

Oh by the way you feel it's ok to force someone to pay for another's healthcare. Selfish,

[Hazard]

Obamacare wants 208 for me for the lowest coverage plan. Bcbs wants 178 for great coverage.

Also..... What good will obamacare be if docs don't accept it like medicade now.....

[bass]

Lets just do the healthcare, lets live the commi dream. The rich pay for the poor, the full feed the hungry, it's beautiful. I will work, you don't have to. The government will sell cheap affordable health care or you can keep the stuff you have but if you decide you don't want any our fines will pay for the rest. Don't worry if you can't afford to pay for the healthcare the government provides we will get a subsidy payed for by others. Wake up! WHY DO YOU WANT TO RELY ON THE GOVERNMENT? Only reason I can think of is because you can't do it yourself.

the sad part of all this is even the free healthcare will end once the rich are broke, then we're all screwed. goodbye America hello Russia/china.

[crazy mike]

Lets just do the healthcare, lets live the commi dream. The rich pay for the poor, the full feed the hungry, it's beautiful. I will work, you don't have to. The government will sell cheap affordable health care or you can keep the stuff you have but if you decide you don't want any our fines will pay for the rest. Don't worry if you can't afford to pay for the healthcare the government provides we will get a subsidy payed for by others. Wake up! WHY DO YOU WANT TO RELY ON THE GOVERNMENT? Only reason I can think of is because you can't do it yourself.

So sorry but in SOME cases people don't have much of anything they can do. This is do to age, no income because of age and or disability. I mean true disability not just faking and or taking advantage. There are honest people that have worked a life time and need help.

Now take notice I didn't say deserve but need and we live in a country that has helped most of the years. There are the rich, the unadulterated just super rich that don't need millions or billions when people, some people are starving. I mean good honest people. But we are a free country to be able to make whatever how much we can and keep it. So how do we work it, I don't know. ..crazy mike

[Fcastle357]

So sorry but in SOME cases people don't have much of anything they can. This is do to age, no income because of age and or disability. I mean true disability not just faking and or taking advantage. There are honest people that have worked a life time and need help.

Now take notice I didn't say deserve but need and we live in a country that has helped most of the years. There are the rich, the unadulterated just super rich that don't need millions or billions when people, some people are starving. I mean good honest people. But we are a free country to be able to make whatever how much we can and keep it. So how do we work it, I don't know. ..crazy mike

I agree mike. But I don't agree with forcing people to help.

[ppwc1985]

[QUOTE="Fcastle357"] You fail to see the big picture. Just let this pass. Then the next thing and the one after that. Why because we already pay for stuff. Your are brainwashed already. Lets continue to let the government do these things. This is huge. Wake up. Oh by the way you feel it's ok to force someone to pay for another's healthcare. Selfish,[/QUOTE Hell dude they force us to pay for a whole lot more than other ppls healthcare, wtf do you think out taxes go. What we need to do is get rid of dem and rep and anyone who follows them.

[crazy mike]

I agree mike. But I don't agree with forcing people to help.

My point, what the Fk do we do. I mean when I was young I would tell you if you need the help then your a pig, a mooch, lazy and on. Stand up get a grip you can do something. Well it is ad that I for one need the help, maybe don't deserve it, but what to do. I don't have a clue. I already can't get all the medications that I NEED because we let the MFC, labs charge 26, 50, or more a pill, times 90 pills a month. Huh, yep that's some of what the rich do to the poor. Just saying , I don't know. ...crazy mike

[Fcastle357]

This is to ppwc
I think we're on the same page. I do believe in some of the taxes I pay for are good. But you're right about the people using them. We need to start from scratch. Both sides.

[Fcastle357]

My point, what the Fk do we do. I mean when I was young I would tell you if you need the help then your a pig, a mooch, lazy and on. Stand up get a grip you can do something. Well it is ad that I for one need the help, maybe don't deserve it, but what to do. I don't have a clue. I already can't get all the medications that I NEED because we let the MFC, labs charge 26, 50, or more a pill, times 90 pills a month. Huh, yep that's some of what the rich do to the poor. Just saying , I don't know. ...crazy mike

I think the best we can hope to do is be more self reliant. Forcing the rich to give to the poor will only make the rich bitter. I think we have to ask why the hell is this stuff so expensive. I have a feeling someone wants it to be expensive. They have us right where they want us.

[ppwc1985]

My point, what the Fk do we do. I mean when I was young I would tell you if you need the help then your a pig, a mooch, lazy and on. Stand up get a grip you can do something. Well it is ad that I for one need the help, maybe don't deserve it, but what to do. I don't have a clue. I already can't get all the medications that I NEED because we let the MFC, labs charge 26, 50, or more a pill, times 90 pills a month. Huh, yep that's some of what the rich do to the poor. Just saying , I don't know. ...crazy mike

that's the whole problem, we let the rich, greedy company's run this country. He'll the NFL don't even pay taxes but we continue to support them. Crazy shit.

[ppwc1985]

This is to ppwc I think we're on the same page. I do believe in some of the taxes I pay for are good. But you're right about the people using them. We need to start from scratch. Both sides.

Its all cool, I spent most my adult life in the military so I seen a lot if our tax money getting wasted. It pisses me off. I have insurance but I don't need it, the VA covers me 100% but getting to see a Dr when you need to is to much a hassle.

[Java Man]

Huh? The government shut down? When? I hadn't noticed since I don't get any milk from momma.

[Hazard]

My point, what the Fk do we do. I mean when I was young I would tell you if you need the help then your a pig, a mooch, lazy and on. Stand up get a grip you can do something. Well it is ad that I for one need the help, maybe don't deserve it, but what to do. I don't have a clue. I already can't get all the medications that I NEED because we let the MFC, labs charge 26, 50, or more a pill, times 90 pills a month. Huh, yep that's some of what the rich do to the poor. Just saying , I don't know. ...crazy mike

That's a major problem with healthcare right now. Problem is..... With obamacare you will get the cheapest effective treatment. Treatment options should be discussed and chosen by the doctor and patient. You shouldn't be told by the government what you get.

[marcus300]

On a positive note I did have a few quid on the weak dollar on the Forex markets this week.

[Flagg]

The problem is how politics in most democracies work. They are all run by a two party system and all other options are fringe parties which are largely all radical in nature.

The West have largely brought this on ourselves. We go on and on and on about freedom but we're the ones that allowed the banks and the politicians to play monopoly with our money. But not just thqt, the majority or people living far, far beyond their financial means.

Everyone is doing in this thread what the politicians are doing, finger pointing, rather than trynna find some answers.

Republicans and Democrats, Tories and Labour....they're all pals, they all went to the same schools and universities together, don't for one second believe one party has YOUR interests in mind over the others.

[Megalodon6]

Obamacare wants 208 for me for the lowest coverage plan. Bcbs wants 178 for great coverage.

Also..... What good will obamacare be if docs don't accept it like medicade now.....

That's retarded!

[Honkey_Kong]

Lets just do the healthcare, lets live the commi dream. The rich pay for the poor, the full feed the hungry, it's beautiful. I will work, you don't have to. The government will sell cheap affordable health care or you can keep the stuff you have but if you decide you don't want any our fines will pay for the rest. Don't worry if you can't afford to pay for the healthcare the government provides we will get a subsidy payed for by others. Wake up! WHY DO YOU WANT TO RELY ON THE GOVERNMENT? Only reason I can think of is because you can't do it yourself.

That isn't the "commi dream." In pure communism, there isn't such a thing as property. Now to the proletariat, that isn't much different than how it is now. Since there is no property, classes like rich, poor and middle dissolve. Now you say this will destroy incentive to work hard, but to the working class who is working just to survive for until tomorrow, they're already living under those conditions AND working.

Production of goods and services also isn't based on a supply and demand system, but rather entirely on a need system. So ideally factory produce until the need is met 100% and then they just operate to maintain.

The freeloaders that you fear would take advantage of the system are basically exiled from society. So there is nobody getting a free-ride. It's a completely different system than the mythical "Robin Hood" world that the conservative media portrays.

Whether or not the commie dream is the right kind of society is another debate for another time though.

As far as healthcare reform goes, this country badly needed reform. Unfortunately, Obamacare isn't going to be the right answer. There is way too much pandering to the insurance companies for this system to work. The system was designed to FORCE people in to buying insurance policies they cannot afford. On top of that, those same companies can argue that now since they have to cover those other people, they can jack up the rates of the people who are already insured.

All the blame on the jacked rates goes to the government instead of the crooks in the insurance companies who needlessly jacked the rates up?

I can guarantee that there are going to be some record profits in the health insurance world in the next few years. Insurance CEOs are going to be getting multi-million dollar bonuses all because they lobbied government politicians to create this obamacare law. So in reality, this act is going to only divide the gap between rich and poor. Hardly a "commie dream" is it?

[Flagg]

Honkey Kong you forget you can see communism in full force from the west coast of Alaska!

[DSM4Life]

I say we call their bluff, f***'em.

[Honkey_Kong]

Honkey Kong you forget you can see communism in full force from the west coast of Alaska!

Those Ruskis, Chinese and North Koreans aren't practicing real communism though. They're more or less totalitarian regimes. Real communism is about removing barriers to ensure individual freedoms. In the true sense, there isn't even an idea of nationalism in it. The strong government control in those not-so-true-communist countries is not part of the ideology and actually harms it. Control of assets is determined by the organizations themselves. It's very decentralized and every worker gets an equal say in the direction. If you ever get the chance to read the Communist Manifesto, it's an interesting read. It's free on the kindle app.

[Fcastle357]

That isn't the "commi dream." In pure communism, there isn't such a thing as property. Now to the proletariat, that isn't much different than how it is now. Since there is no property, classes like rich, poor and middle dissolve. Now you say this will destroy incentive to work hard, but to the working class who is working just to survive for until tomorrow, they're already living under those conditions AND working.

Production of goods and services also isn't based on a supply and demand system, but rather entirely on a need system. So ideally factory produce until the need is met 100% and then they just operate to maintain.

The freeloaders that you fear would take advantage of the system are basically exiled from society. So there is nobody getting a free-ride. It's a completely different system than the mythical "Robin Hood" world that the conservative media portrays.

Whether or not the commie dream is the right kind of society is another debate for another time though.

As far as healthcare reform goes, this country badly needed reform. Unfortunately, Obamacare isn't going to be the right answer. There is way too much pandering to the insurance companies for this system to work. The system was designed to FORCE people in to buying insurance policies they cannot afford. On top of that, those same companies can argue that now since they have to cover those other people, they can jack up the rates of the people who are already insured.

All the blame on the jacked rates goes to the government instead of the crooks in the insurance companies who needlessly jacked the rates up?

I can guarantee that there are going to be some record profits in the health insurance world in the next few years. Insurance CEOs are going to be getting multi-million dollar bonuses all because they lobbied government politicians to create this obamacare law. So in reality, this act is going to only divide the gap between rich and poor. Hardly a "commie dream" is it?

Again your not seeing the big picture. Why argue about pure communism? That's where we are headed! The government forcing people to take care of other people. Wake up! They are trying to take away the classes. They don't want rich, poor, and middle class they want one class one wage and everyone follows one set of rules. You can't see that?

[Honkey_Kong]

Again your not seeing the big picture. Why argue about pure communism? That's where we are headed! The government forcing people to take care of other people. Wake up! They are trying to take away the classes. They don't want rich, poor, and middle class they want one class one wage and everyone follows one set of rules. You can't see that?

I highly doubt that the social architects and oligarchs in this country want only one class. They do want to become richer themselves at the expense of the middle and poor classes. So I could see how you would come to that conclusion. But there really isn't much you or I can do about any of it. We're even powerless over Obamacare. You're going to pay for the higher rates of insurance, it's set. All the while, you're going to line the pockets of some wealthy insurance corporate execs a little more than you were before.

And as I said you're powerless over it. This whole shutdown thing is a fvcking game that's being played just to give the illusion that one side is the bad guy in this whole debate (republican or democrat) and come election time you'll just think you're spawning change by voting against whom you determined to be the culprit and the process will continue since both sides are in on the take. You might as well not get worked up over it.

[Fcastle357]

I highly doubt that the social architects and oligarchs in this country want only one class. They do want to become richer themselves at the expense of the middle and poor classes. So I could see how you would come to that conclusion. But there really isn't much you or I can do about any of it. We're even powerless over Obamacare. You're going to pay for the higher rates of insurance, it's set. All the while, you're going to line the pockets of some wealthy insurance corporate execs a little more than you were before.

And as I said you're powerless over it. This whole shutdown thing is a fvcking game that's being played just to give the illusion that one side is the bad guy in this whole debate (republican or democrat) and come election time you'll just think you're spawning change by voting against whom you determined to be the culprit and the process will continue since both sides are in on the take. You might as well not get worked up over it.

The only thing that gets worked up is that people seem to think this is reform. We are powerless. I just like to complain about about

[Honkey_Kong]

The only thing that gets worked up is that people seem to think this is reform. We are powerless. I just like to complain about about

It is reform, whether or not that will turn out to be for better or worse to the population as a whole remains to be seen. What didn't work was the system we had before. Affordable health care was beyond the reach of millions of Americans.

And it wasn't just the proletariat that was being denied health coverage. Many people in the bourgeois were being denied care as well. My experiences with health insurance have been a nightmare. I've on many occasions tried to buy policies only to be turned down due to injuries sustained during a car accident 12 years ago. On my current policy through my employer, I have major exclusions to my coverage that really make it almost pointless to pay for the premiums.

And I'm not the only one who is experiencing this. You know how many people who have had pre-existing conditions that have been either outright denied or denied coverage? You try getting insurance if you've had cancer or a heart attack. The insurance companies had a little rule on the books where supposing you had a heart attack while you were insured and say afterwards you get laid off from your job. And now a year later, you finally get another job that provides health insurance. They will not cover anything related to your heart as there was a lapse in your coverage.

So now these people who absolutely need health care (heart/cancer patients) are being forced in the bankruptcy just because they need treatment. The system DOESN'T work as it was. For millions of Americans, Obamacare cannot be any worse than what we currently have in place.

That being said, since Obamacare puts the health care coverage in the hands of insurance companies, it will eventually backfire as health insurance companies make a living out of screwing their customers over. Anybody who has ever had to go to the ER knows what a battle it is to get the insurance company to pay the bills. They're as crooked as can be and will go just not pay the bills leaving you to fight with them in order to get them to pony up with their part of the agreement.

[Fcastle357]

You are selfish because you have a pre existing condition you would force others to suffer. I get it now

[Hazard]

I agree that something needs to be done but forcing others to pay for ones own issues isn't right either.

Unfortunately no one can come up with a solution for this particular situation. Hence..... Obamacare

[Fcastle357]

I agree that something needs to be done but forcing others to pay for ones own issues isn't right either.

Unfortunately no one can come up with a solution for this particular situation. Hence..... Obamacare

Another voice of reason.

[Honkey_Kong]

You are selfish because you have a pre existing condition you would force others to suffer. I get it now

There isn't selfishness involved. Everybody should have access to healthcare. It doesn't matter how healthy or unhealthy you are, eventually, you're going to have to receive health care. And hospital costs are outrageous. Reform absolutely needed to happen.

[Fcastle357]

There isn't selfishness involved. Everybody should have access to healthcare. It doesn't matter how healthy or unhealthy you are, eventually, you're going to have to receive health care. And hospital costs are outrageous. Reform absolutely needed to happen.

Reform at others expense.

[Fcastle357]

No not everyone should automatically get healthcare. That's like saying everyone should have a house a car and tv. Bullish!t.

[Hazard]

Healthcare isn't a born right. It's a privilege. The people who take care of us aren't born with the knowledge of how to do that. They pay the schools, they do the hard work, they pay medical malpractice insurance.

Regardless of anyone's belief...... Healthcare isn't a born right. It never has been

[Euroholic]

Well if it makes anyone feel better im going to the doctors tommorow to get a blood test and valium all paid for by the tax payer.

[DB1982]

Here's something to think about

In America Prisoners have better healthcare then 70% of Americans.

And in Michigan prisoners have Blue Cross n fully covered.

So say you need a Heart surgery with no insurance.
It will end up costing you around $300,000+ and take the rest of your life to pay off.

Or you could do a simply robbery Plead guilty go to prison then get the heart surgery and be out in 5 years and not in debt up to your eyebrows.

Your blind if you think our healthcare system isn't in need of a major overhaul.

My wife is a Nurse n going to school now to be a Physician was also The union steward for her department.
I know n hear about all the BS that goes on it would make your head spin and severely enraged to know how much money is wasted

[Hazard]

Here's something to think about

In America Prisoners have better healthcare then 70% of Americans.

And in Michigan prisoners have Blue Cross n fully covered.

So say you need a Heart surgery with no insurance.
It will end up costing you around $300,000+ and take the rest of your life to pay off.

Or you could do a simply robbery Plead guilty go to prison then get the heart surgery and be out in 5 years and not in debt up to your eyebrows.

Your blind if you think our healthcare system isn't in need of a major overhaul.

My wife is a Nurse n going to school now to be a Physician was also The union steward for her department.
I know n hear about all the BS that goes on it would make your head spin and severely enraged to know how much money is wasted

There's no doubt it needs an overhaul but obamacare isn't the answer man. Once again take a look at medicade. How many docs accept it?

I've done all kinds of orthopedic surgeries. I've worked with one of the nations top 10 ortho docs. I've done probably 700 cases and have been in and around healthcare my entire life. Every single doctor I worked with said they were going to opt out of accepting government insurance if they could.

What good will dumping $1 trillion into healthcare do if docs won't accept the insurance?

[cgi]

I wish they would shutdown more of the govt. Eliminate the DEA, DHS, DOE both education and energy, elimate Obamacare social security medicare and medicaid, get rid of corporate welfare, cut all foreign and and cut the miltary budget by about 50%.

[Euroholic]

http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data...care-countries


I dont no how true or how old but interesting none the less

[DB1982]

There's no doubt it needs an overhaul but obamacare isn't the answer man. Once again take a look at medicade. How many docs accept it?

I've done all kinds of orthopedic surgeries. I've worked with one of the nations top 10 ortho docs. I've done probably 700 cases and have been in and around healthcare my entire life. Every single doctor I worked with said they were going to opt out of accepting government insurance if they could.

What good will dumping $1 trillion into healthcare do if docs won't accept the insurance?

I don't think so called Obamacare is the answer either. Anything the government touches turns to crap. Because people abuse it.
But something has to be done. Its only getting worse year by year.

Our stupid Government has no clue what the average American is up against.
We need a reset button for the government.

[Hazard]

I don't think so called Obamacare is the answer either. Anything the government touches turns to crap. Because people abuse it.
But something has to be done. Its only getting worse year by year.

Our stupid Government has no clue what the average American is up against.
We need a reset button for the government.

That's exactly the problem.....

Healthcare needs to be fixed but the government any run it. They just can't..... They have a proven track record of failure with their programs. How can we just sit back and let them handle something this big.

Then lets just say it fails...... What if all this ends up tanking? What's next?

[cgi]

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I dont no how true or how old but interesting none the less

Most efficient by what standard? Lowest cost per citizen? Guess which country has the BEST cancer survivor rate in the world. That's right, the U.S of A. There's a reason that politicians and the rich in socialist countries fly over to the U.S to get their care.