ObamaCare "Affordable care act"

[Metalject]

The real and only important question as it stands now is will the law be overturned if it is a complete disaster? If we look at history, odds are it won't be overturned. When the government passes massive pieces of legislation like this rarely is it overturned even if that is public will.

Solid examples of what I'm saying:

Social Security: A disastrous piece of legislation that all agree is going to become a massive problem for the nation in the near future, yet nothing is done about it.

Abortion: The most recent Gallup polls show 58% of all Americans believe abortion should be illegal in almost all circumstances including 57% of all women. You can argue that those numbers almost reflect a dead heat but that's hardly the case when many don't care either way. You only have a small percentage that are prochoice outright, 39%. The point, I'm not trying to start an abortion argument, but the point is the will of the citizens is rarely taken into consideration.

The only relevant example that most can relate to that shows how a law is overturned of this nature is prohibition. That took a constitutional amendment and that requires 2/3 of both houses of congress to pass as well as being ratified by at least 38 of the 50 states. That's not an easy process but one that might be the only hope as it pertains to Obama Care. But do most Americans care enough to get off their butts to make that happen?

[lovbyts]

The real and only important question as it stands now is will the law be overturned if it is a complete disaster? If we look at history, odds are it won't be overturned. When the government passes massive pieces of legislation like this rarely is it overturned even if that is public will.

Solid examples of what I'm saying:

Social Security: A disastrous piece of legislation that all agree is going to become a massive problem for the nation in the near future, yet nothing is done about it.

Abortion: The most recent Gallup polls show 58% of all Americans believe abortion should be illegal in almost all circumstances including 57% of all women. You can argue that those numbers almost reflect a dead heat but that's hardly the case when many don't care either way. You only have a small percentage that are prochoice outright, 39%. The point, I'm not trying to start an abortion argument, but the point is the will of the citizens is rarely taken into consideration.

The only relevant example that most can relate to that shows how a law is overturned of this nature is prohibition. That took a constitutional amendment and that requires 2/3 of both houses of congress to pass as well as being ratified by at least 38 of the 50 states. That's not an easy process but one that might be the only hope as it pertains to Obama Care. But do most Americans care enough to get off their butts to make that happen?

Only reason Social Security is a disaster is because the government started sticking their greedy little fingers into it, borrowing against it and giving it to people who never put a dime into it. Up to a few years ago there was a huge Surplus.

[cgi]

Only reason Social Security is a disaster is because the government started sticking their greedy little fingers into it, borrowing against it and giving it to people who never put a dime into it. Up to a few years ago there was a huge Surplus.

Actually it's a disaster because it's a government program and even worse it's a ponzi scheme run by the government. Government programs DON'T work.

[Metalject]

Only reason Social Security is a disaster is because the government started sticking their greedy little fingers into it, borrowing against it and giving it to people who never put a dime into it. Up to a few years ago there was a huge Surplus.

That may very well be true and I believe you hit the nail on the head but it's still a disaster and that will not change unless the American people force it to change. And that force will never occur when the common mindset of the American people is "whatever, I have big plans Friday night."

[Java Man]

Only reason Social Security is a disaster is because the government started sticking their greedy little fingers into it, borrowing against it and giving it to people who never put a dime into it. Up to a few years ago there was a huge Surplus.

You can bet they will do that every time there is a surplus somewhere. The only thing the government does well is spend money. This is the number one reason I don't trust the government handling anything. Its not that the fundamental ideas are bad, its just that I know the government will mismanage it and fbck it up. We cannot trust others to micromanage what is essentially an individual responsibility. On the other hand, the reason government usually gets involved with such things is only after the general public when taken as a whole has failed to manage it properly. What pisses me off is when the government takes over anything, all choice is taken away from everyone, even those who were responsibly dealing with their own shit. I am a responsible person and I am so sick of making sacrifices for those who aren't. Its a choice for most people. I say, if you choose to be irresponsible, lie in your bed that you made and stfu. Get your hands out of my families pocket before I cut it off.

[Java Man]

The real and only important question as it stands now is will the law be overturned if it is a complete disaster? If we look at history, odds are it won't be overturned. When the government passes massive pieces of legislation like this rarely is it overturned even if that is public will.

Solid examples of what I'm saying:

Social Security: A disastrous piece of legislation that all agree is going to become a massive problem for the nation in the near future, yet nothing is done about it.

Abortion: The most recent Gallup polls show 58% of all Americans believe abortion should be illegal in almost all circumstances including 57% of all women. You can argue that those numbers almost reflect a dead heat but that's hardly the case when many don't care either way. You only have a small percentage that are prochoice outright, 39%. The point, I'm not trying to start an abortion argument, but the point is the will of the citizens is rarely taken into consideration.

The only relevant example that most can relate to that shows how a law is overturned of this nature is prohibition. That took a constitutional amendment and that requires 2/3 of both houses of congress to pass as well as being ratified by at least 38 of the 50 states. That's not an easy process but one that might be the only hope as it pertains to Obama Care. But do most Americans care enough to get off their butts to make that happen?

I fear we have let this act go too far into the real meat of it to repeal it now without making a bigger mess. Actually I don't think it has gone that far yet. After next year that will probably no longer be true. I really thought once this laws first steps started to get implemented and enough people started feeling it they would wake up. I was wrong. I keep overestimating this country's public. I have a minority opinion apparently. It is looking more and more as time goes by that Americans would rather be told what to do than handle their own affairs. Not this one.

[Hazard]

People just need not sign up. The bill won't last if people don't sign up for it. They needed 3 1/2 million to be young adults who were healthy. They needed 7 million total...... They've gotten 300,000 so far with another 700,000 who have signed up just to look.

If we don't sign up - there will be more people sucking the money dry than are actually healthy. In effect..... It'll show the government just why private insurers don't insure those with pre-existing conditions.

[jgrayson60]

Obama's plan is a good one, but it was rushed. It needs more improvement.

[lovbyts]

Obama's plan is a good one, but it was rushed. It needs more improvement.

And what was the good part about his plan? Government taking over the healthcare system? Charging everyone more? lying? The fact that it will hurt more than it helps? The fact 3x are now without insurance compared to before?

The idea was good, the plan and reality of it sucks and not just because it was rushed.

[Metalject]

I fear we have let this act go too far into the real meat of it to repeal it now without making a bigger mess. Actually I don't think it has gone that far yet. After next year that will probably no longer be true. I really thought once this laws first steps started to get implemented and enough people started feeling it they would wake up. I was wrong. I keep overestimating this country's public. I have a minority opinion apparently. It is looking more and more as time goes by that Americans would rather be told what to do than handle their own affairs. Not this one.

I don't think its that people want to be told what to do, that would mean they've made a conscious decision. That would mean they actually put some thought into it. We no longer think, that's the problem. Nearly half of the voting population doesn't vote and of the half that do the vast majority vote based solely on emotion. The emotional vote works on both sides but it is abundant with the left as there is no other basis for Obama winning reelection other than emotion. Our only hope with this debacle is that it truly hurts the pocket books of the majority. That's the only thing most people care about.

People just need not sign up. The bill won't last if people don't sign up for it. They needed 3 1/2 million to be young adults who were healthy. They needed 7 million total...... They've gotten 300,000 so far with another 700,000 who have signed up just to look.

If we don't sign up - there will be more people sucking the money dry than are actually healthy. In effect..... It'll show the government just why private insurers don't insure those with pre-existing conditions.

All true, but I think many will signup after they are fined for not signing up. Yes, signing up will cost them more than the fine but too many people don't process that simple thought. I will gladly pay the few hundred dollar fine. However, at some point in time I guarantee you that few hundred dollar fine will grow and grow and could possible be accompanied by far more forceful measures. I wouldn't be surprised if jail isn't a penalty one day if the law remains in place.

And while people signing up is a huge factor for the law, how many doctors participate is the make or break. If too few people signup, the government will subsidize its own program to meet the cost for as long as it has to and if that means tax increases yet again and it most certainly will, then that's exactly what will happen.

The two key things that have to happen:

1. People will have to be hit hard in their pocketbook, very hard.
2. There will need to be a shortage of doctors that accept that accept Obama Care.

[Metalject]

Obama's plan is a good one, but it was rushed. It needs more improvement.

Nearly four years is an eternity in politics. And I second lovbyts question.

You know what else is a good plan? Let's create a plan that gives every last American a job and pays him $250,000 a year. He doesn't have to earn that job or even be good at the job. And some of the jobs, because there is only a need for a certain number of skilled positions, could simply be showing up at your job and drinking grape juice all day. That's a good plan in terms of it's nice and everyone now has the same amount of money and a lot of it. But would it work? Could you say that's possible? If you believe Obama Care is a good thing and is possible to sustain then you believe the description I just laid out is also equally as good.

[Fcastle357]

I love politics... Arguing is good for the soul. And I mean that, nothing better than a heated debate.

[lovbyts]

Nearly four years is an eternity in politics. And I second lovbyts question.

You know what else is a good plan? Let's create a plan that gives every last American a job and pays him $250,000 a year. He doesn't have to earn that job or even be good at the job. And some of the jobs, because there is only a need for a certain number of skilled positions, could simply be showing up at your job and drinking grape juice all day. That's a good plan in terms of it's nice and everyone now has the same amount of money and a lot of it. But would it work? Could you say that's possible? If you believe Obama Care is a good thing and is possible to sustain then you believe the description I just laid out is also equally as good.

I had planned on making some similar examples but decided it would probably fall on deaf ears. Some people just like drinking Koolaid.

[Mp859]

Obama 2016!!!


Wait...

[lovbyts]

Obama 2016!!!


Wait...

Wait what? There is more truth to that than you may know but it's what I said he would do over 3 years ago.

H.J.Res.15 - 113th Congress (2013-2014): Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the twenty-second article of amendment, thereby removing the limitation on the number of terms an individual may serve as President. |

[Metalject]

Obama 2016!!!


Wait...

I am willing to bet anyone here $1000 that when the 2016 election gets closer there will be a group who push for an Obama 3rd term and it will be a significant enough push to make the news. Now I'm not saying the push would be big enough for anything to come about from it but this WILL ABSOLUTELY happen. At the same time, the ego of the Obama camp is so massive, I wouldn't be surprised if they pushed for it too. Any takers?

Crap, lovbyst you beat me, lol! I guess I didn't type fast enough.

[Metalject]

I love politics... Arguing is good for the soul. And I mean that, nothing better than a heated debate.

Not much of an argument when most of those that support it stay out of the thread or when those that do enter say things like "It's good, it's great....it feels good...Obama is so awesome I want to lick him...." and so on.

[Hazard]

He'll never get a 3rd term. 3/4 of the states need to support ratifying the amendment..... It'll never happen

Rep Jose Serrano introduced the bill. He also proposed the same bill in 1999 for Clinton and had no supporters lol

[Mp859]

I may take my own life if this comes to fruition.

[lovbyts]

I am willing to bet anyone here $1000 that when the 2016 election gets closer there will be a group who push for an Obama 3rd term and it will be a significant enough push to make the news. Now I'm not saying the push would be big enough for anything to come about from it but this WILL ABSOLUTELY happen. At the same time, the ego of the Obama camp is so massive, I wouldn't be surprised if they pushed for it too. Any takers?

Crap, lovbyst you beat me, lol! I guess I didn't type fast enough.

LOL, it's because I have said it before and posted the same like. Yeah I HOPE it wont get pushed through but you never know the way things are going. For the 1st time I'm truly afraid our government is going to push us over the edge past the point of redemption or salvation for many years to come. I hope I'm wrong.

[Hazard]

^^^^ yep me too

[cgi]

He'll never get a 3rd term. 3/4 of the states need to support ratifying the amendment..... It'll never happen

Rep Jose Serrano introduced the bill. He also proposed the same bill in 1999 for Clinton and had no supporters lol

You seem to think Obama cares about the constitution... that's funny.

[JD250]

not much of an argument when most of those that support it stay out of the thread or when those that do enter say things like "it's good, it's great....it feels good...obama is so awesome i want to lick him...." and so on.

lmao!!!

[bass]

Obama 2016!!!

Wait...

That gave me shivers up my spine! Since you mentioned 2016, have you seen the documentary move 2016? Scary shit!

[thisAngelBites]

Many have insurance that pays for them, some get them via donations from private citizens and groups, some from special programs via the drug companies, hospitals or charities or they pay for them out of pocket. Most of these options are being eliminated and wont be available in the near future under Obamacare.

A new provision in Section 501 of the Internal Revenue Code, which taxes effect under Obamacare , sets new standards of review and installs new financial penalties for tax-exempt charitable hospitals.

I wanted to do some reading before I replied, but I still haven't managed much reading, so I'll just ask: will every private insurance plan now have to conform to these same rules? In other words, will it be the case that everyone with private insurance has the same prescription drug coverage, or will some people be able to buy better policies which cover drugs without trying to save money on cheaper drugs if possible?

A quick look around the internet did show that most private insurance already restricts drug prescriptions they will pay for, and that under obamacare, there will be a provision for physicians to make a case for medical necessity for any drug not otherwise allowed.

On another note: does anyone know any websites with balanced, factual and descriptive coverage of this stuff? Seriously, everything I read is either hyperbolic and inaccurately anti-obama (with inaccuracies revealed by a few minutes' search time) or else hyperbolic and unquestioningly pro-obama (with inaccuracies revealed by a few minutes' search time) - including most of what gets written on this forum.

Are there any websites that cover this stuff that isn't so biased as to make claims everything obama does is de facto wonderful or de facto evil? I'd like to know more without having to choose dogmatism before I even start.

[Metalject]

I wanted to do some reading before I replied, but I still haven't managed much reading, so I'll just ask: will every private insurance plan now have to conform to these same rules? In other words, will it be the case that everyone with private insurance has the same prescription drug coverage, or will some people be able to buy better policies which cover drugs without trying to save money on cheaper drugs if possible?

A quick look around the internet did show that most private insurance already restricts drug prescriptions they will pay for, and that under obamacare, there will be a provision for physicians to make a case for medical necessity for any drug not otherwise allowed.

On another note: does anyone know any websites with balanced, factual and descriptive coverage of this stuff? Seriously, everything I read is either hyperbolic and inaccurately anti-obama (with inaccuracies revealed by a few minutes' search time) or else hyperbolic and unquestioningly pro-obama (with inaccuracies revealed by a few minutes' search time) - including most of what gets written on this forum.

Are there any websites that cover this stuff that isn't so biased as to make claims everything obama does is de facto wonderful or de facto evil? I'd like to know more without having to choose dogmatism before I even start.

I don't think what Obama's doing is something based on evil. He truly believes he has the best interest of the country in mind. And more importantly, it's not what Obama's doing but the whole progressive left is doing. This isn't a one man show by any means.

As far as unbiased documentation, much of what's said on both sides are assumptions. We won't know exactly how it turns out until it turns out. Even those that have put this thing into action can't really answer these questions honestly, it's too massive of an undertaking to know what areas it will touch. But we do know it will touch a lot since it is so massive. And we can also look at the facts that have already come out. So far, within a few months of the legislation being enacted, millions have lost their health insurance, millions more have seen their premiums go up and many more can no longer use the doctor they had use. Regardless of the side of the fence you sit on, these are all undisputed facts.

If the right or libertarian minded talk about the above facts, they say it's wrong because we should be free to make our own choice. If the left defends what's happened their defense is that person had a sub-par plan, which is a nice way of saying we know how to take care of you better than you know how to take care of you. Is there any other way to look at that?

[bass]

I don't think what Obama's doing is something based on evil. He truly believes he has the best interest of the country in mind. And more importantly, it's not what Obama's doing but the whole progressive left is doing. This isn't a one man show by any means.

As far as unbiased documentation, much of what's said on both sides are assumptions. We won't know exactly how it turns out until it turns out. Even those that have put this thing into action can't really answer these questions honestly, it's too massive of an undertaking to know what areas it will touch. But we do know it will touch a lot since it is so massive. And we can also look at the facts that have already come out. So far, within a few months of the legislation being enacted, millions have lost their health insurance, millions more have seen their premiums go up and many more can no longer use the doctor they had use. Regardless of the side of the fence you sit on, these are all undisputed facts.

If the right or libertarian minded talk about the above facts, they say it's wrong because we should be free to make our own choice. If the left defends what's happened their defense is that person had a sub-par plan, which is a nice way of saying we know how to take care of you better than you know how to take care of you. Is there any other way to look at that?

I truly believe he wants to hurt this country, because he resents it. just read his book, or watch the documentary movie 2016.

[Metalject]

I truly believe he wants to hurt this country, because he resents it. just read his book, or watch the documentary movie 2016.

Hurt it for what it is? Yes, I agree but he thinks he's doing what's right. That was my point. He truly believes he's on the right side of good and that makes him a hard opponent. And most of his followers in the public believe the same just because he said it and that's an even bigger problem. People have zero capability of thinking anymore beyond what makes them feel warm and fuzzy.

[bass]

but I believe he wants to bankrupted this country on purpose. his history shows he has resentment toward it.

[JimR]

Beside the point but interesting. Obama did not win in Florida the first time around but he did the second. No one I know liked Obama too much in this hugely Republican area but both Republicans ahead of me and behind me in the voting line said they were voting for him because Romney was even worse. Obama won Florida.

[bass]

Beside the point but interesting. Obama did not win in Florida the first time around but he did the second. No one I know liked Obama too much in this hugely Republican area but both Republicans ahead of me and behind me in the voting line said they were voting for him because Romney was even worse. Obama won Florida.

its mind boggling really!

[JimR]

I voted for Obama as well but needless to say I'm dismayed with the rollout. I think there are good things about Obamacare and time will tell. The histrionics on both sides are nuts.

[Hazard]

My gf voted Obama twice because of his promises. She thought he sounded sincere.....

Now..... She wants him impeached for lying to the public. She wants to take her vote back. She is so disappointed in him. She doesn't like anything he's done so far

[Hazard]

I voted for Obama as well but needless to say I'm dismayed with the rollout. I think there are good things about Obamacare and time will tell. The histrionics on both sides are nuts.

Obamacare is a disaster. It was never designed to actually be able to work. All the doctors I've worked with predicted this years ago when he was trying to get it passed. The government KNEW it was going to fail. They want full blown universal healthcare..... When obamacare fails, and it will, they will say they have no choice but to tax EVERYONE and we'll have a single payer system

[bass]

I voted for Obama as well but needless to say I'm dismayed with the rollout. I think there are good things about Obamacare and time will tell. The histrionics on both sides are nuts.

name one good thing he did.

My gf voted Obama twice because of his promises. She thought he sounded sincere.....

Now..... She wants him impeached for lying to the public. She wants to take her vote back. She is so disappointed in him. She doesn't like anything he's done so far

unfortunately that's when you feel the effects of lies, when its too late. just make sure she doesn't vote for him the third time. wait did I say third!

[Mp859]

That gave me shivers up my spine! Since you mentioned 2016, have you seen the documentary move 2016? Scary shit!

I will have to check it out

[Hazard]

unfortunately that's when you feel the effects of lies, when its too late. just make sure she doesn't vote for him the third time. wait did I say third!

One good thing that came from this is that she learned to do her research before voting. She said "I voted for him because he promised change. Bush was everything or seemed to be everything we were tired of. Obama seemed like he could really bring a much needed change..... And that man has severely let me down."

Now I am NOT a racial person at all. Neither is my gf..... She's spanish for those who don't know. That man was elected BECAUSE of his race. He promised change and it was a great fvckin campaign..... Even my gf said that his race was a factor. It was time for America to put race behind us but in doing so.... We elected a fvckin moron.

I won't go deeper into this and I hope I havnt offended anyone because that was not at all my intent. There are facts to back this up tho.....

Also..... Look at all the videos of Obama voters that got the policies mixed up. They didn't even know wtf they were voting for! They just knew what he said..... It's a shame because the candidates never follow through with what they say.

[bass]

I will have to check it out

Trailer,

2016: Obama's America - Trailer 1 - YouTube

[bass]

One good thing that came from this is that she learned to do her research before voting. She said "I voted for him because he promised change. Bush was everything or seemed to be everything we were tired of. Obama seemed like he could really bring a much needed change..... And that man has severely let me down."

Now I am NOT a racial person at all. Neither is my gf..... She's spanish for those who don't know. That man was elected BECAUSE of his race. He promised change and it was a great fvckin campaign..... Even my gf said that his race was a factor. It was time for America to put race behind us but in doing so.... We elected a fvckin moron.

I won't go deeper into this and I hope I havnt offended anyone because that was not at all my intent. There are facts to back this up tho.....

Also..... Look at all the videos of Obama voters that got the policies mixed up. They didn't even know wtf they were voting for! They just knew what he said..... It's a shame because the candidates never follow through with what they say.

I agree with your comments. as for your GF well, lessen learned.

[Euroholic]

Obamacare is a disaster. It was never designed to actually be able to work. All the doctors I've worked with predicted this years ago when he was trying to get it passed. The government KNEW it was going to fail. They want full blown universal healthcare..... When obamacare fails, and it will, they will say they have no choice but to tax EVERYONE and we'll have a single payer system

you'l get use to it bull. Healthcare is good. First comes health care than metric system