Statue Removal

[DocToxin8]

You ain't kidding! The debt always comes due. The fact is, and i think most of us that don't have our heads in the sand, our dollar is literally not worth the paper it's printed on. So many people just think nothing has changed, but even if we still had gold in the reserve (which we don't), it wouldn't be enough to cover these trillions of bills being printed. We're almost 18 trillion in debt, and it's not just too China is done loaning to us. Not we're just printing money out of thin air. It is a part of "the plan" and those with real wealth either don't live in the U.S., or they have a diverse portfolio consisting with a % of precious metals and property. Paper money will be used as toilet paper or a fires starter. We can still buy with it, but that's the mirage they are putting in our face. The world's currency is about to be that crypto crap that'll lead into that cutting edge IRD micro chip implant. When that happens, those who refuse will be put into these fema prisons (concentration camps) and dealt with. I've personally seen the 4 person fema coffins with my own eyes! Many times because I drive by it to work. They now have it hidden with a 30 foot tall barrier wall. These camps have been activated and now there is portable prison guard towers in the parking lots of Wal-Mart's all across the nation. Look it up. It's no joke!

Err, while it's good to be prepared,
and one could definitely argue for being prepared for some economic crash or even war, I think you're preoccupation with planning for this might make you a bit paranoid, understandably so.
FEMA concentration camps?
(And yes I'd think FEMA would have some "coffins" at their disposal,
but those would be for all hazardous material I would think)

But whatever,
look at history, how have nations fared during economic collapse in the past?

But having ammo for hunting, food, medicines, and so on doesn't hurt much except your wallet.

I think Europe is stable enough for this not to happen,
Not in the scale that would need to happen before stored food would make sense at least.
(And while the future of the US doesn't look bright right now,
I think at most you're headed for a 1930 types depression. Which would be bad enough.)

But if prepping gives you a feeling of security then by all means.

[Sh0tsf1red]

Current events are making me sick

Keep training your bodies, keep training your minds. Make sure your tools are maintained and well oiled.

Are you a true born son of Liberty?

Time will tell.

[cousinmuscles]

True that communism played a great role in many western countries during WW2.

But anyways, over here we got socialism/democracy,
and as far as taxes do I'd think you Americans would think us communist.

I guess it just comes down to this;
1) could you live in a country where it would be hard to get very rich,
but you would always be guaranteed enough to survive, (and with just a little work have more than enough to survive)
and healthcare, etc would be free.
Then that's socialism.

2) if you want the state to follow some order set out by religious books,
then you should follow ISIS.

3) if you just want the state to leave you alone,
maybe pay some minimum in taxes to roads and infrastructure,
(And in the US pay quite a lot for military spending since you use more than the next 10 countries combined)
but want all hospital treatment and such to cost money, (insurance)
though in essence what you want is to really not have any state at all almost,
(Which also would make it difficult to control borders, but I'm sure that for every problem there could be a solution)
then you want captitalism.

These are just different ways of thinking.
I can understand that one might think option 3 is more "free",
but I can also see it has many weaknesses (as any system)
F. Ex. In such a system you have to expect crime to become really hard core and rife, as all who don't succeed will at some point feel (sometimes real, soemtimes imagined) that they really have no choice but crime.
Let's just say you're unemployed when 20, and grew up in a home where no one cared about schooling. It would be harder (I think) to make it then and go back to school and get a job.
(My point is really just that it's more difficult to get a second chance,
and whether that's right or wrong is up to anybody's choice)

That's why I'd rather have a system like ours here, faulty as it is.
You can get a second chance, or a third chance.
Also, some just don't have resources and I think the state should provide for the inhabitants of the land regardless if they serve "any use"
That's because in my view, all people want to produce given the right chance.
I don't believe people would rather sit home and do nothing at all,
even if they got paid exactly the same as working 8h day shifts.
(Though I do believe in incentives)

Anyway, that was a real derailment of this thread though.

These three options make for a very narrow perspective from what seems to be a quick judgement of all life in the world from your perspective.

Communism is an ideology, not a philosophy. The greatest fallacy within this ideology is the way they treat property rights. In communism there basically are no property rights. The state can take what is yours whenever they want. In the early 1900s they basically took land owners farms and said they shall now work and give 80% of their produce to the state. In russia (read the gulag archipelago if you dont believe me) they took the land owners farms and sent them to siberia with no food or shelter. Guess how well it went for these states that believed that "everyone wants to be useful given the chance". People starved to death. Which also tells us more of communism, they seek to control the means of production and the distribution of wealth.

How does socialism differ? It seems less obvious and less violent. It has evolved from communism because they learned that when they are actually given the means of production, they fail so spectacularly they literally starve to death. Though here in Sweden when you own a private company you are only allowed to take out max $50k per year in salary regardless of how well you perform. For the rest you can hope for the possibility of captial tax gains, but you have to have paid out salaries to "workers" amounting to several times the capital gains. Wow we seem to really own our property here in Scandinavia. The difference in this aspect between communism and socialism is you may pretend you own your property as long as the greatest share of the profits goes to taxes.

Let me express my greatest gratitude for what we get in return here in Sweden, your neighbour socialist world icon, e.g. health care as you mentioned. Like when my mom almost died when they gave her strong sedatives post surgery and didnt check up on her to see her bp and heartbeat was almost gone, and I wished I could have paid for some hospital by myself, someone who did not rely on guaranteed money, to take care of my mom. Or perhaps when I was so delressed I almost killed myself all while the docs I met said its too early to prescribe me any meds. They were obviously competing to provide ne the best service, if they didnt theyd go out of business . Or our educational system here in Sweden, where 60% of the countries top engineeri g colkeges students fail the introductory math course, which is a repetition of high school maths. The same students that got 19,9-20/20 average grades. Do I need to make more examples? Am I really too dumb

Do we need to repeat the same argument infinitely or can we learn? There is no free health care it is either paid directly or through taxes, the latter meaning they dony have to compete for clients and can charge more (this is evident in all countries, look at obamacare).

The US pays more for military and intelligence, yes, and we dont because we rely on them for that.

People who exist on some land and are unable to survive are not entitled to any other persons property just because someone feels they are. That would be theft.

We do not need to be treated as children who are about to get their candy stolen in regards to helping the disabled. Extremely few would be reluctant to donate 1% of their income for those who are unable to provide for those who are unable to provide for themselves.

For those who believe in equality of everything, I believe it should be done just like you said, one should be able to choose their state and live happily ever after, just that there should be as many states as people see fit. In my world property is not defined that way and nobody is entitled to another persons property, and any argument as "oh but Im poor!" is just someone treating me like a child. Let them find participants for their utopia in other ways then by force.

Hope you dont get offended or see it as an attack, I'm just sick of hearing that it has to be some left wing ideology or else there is no health care, education, infrastructure etc. I think deep down you are a good guy but your views on how society should work are not grounded in stringent logic and philosophy, and you tend to conflate concepts and categorize things improperly.

Typed this on my phone hope its not a mess

[cousinmuscles]

Err, while it's good to be prepared,
and one could definitely argue for being prepared for some economic crash or even war, I think you're preoccupation with planning for this might make you a bit paranoid, understandably so.
FEMA concentration camps?
(And yes I'd think FEMA would have some "coffins" at their disposal,
but those would be for all hazardous material I would think)

But whatever,
look at history, how have nations fared during economic collapse in the past?

But having ammo for hunting, food, medicines, and so on doesn't hurt much except your wallet.

I think Europe is stable enough for this not to happen,
Not in the scale that would need to happen before stored food would make sense at least.
(And while the future of the US doesn't look bright right now,
I think at most you're headed for a 1930 types depression. Which would be bad enough.)

But if prepping gives you a feeling of security then by all means.

Europe is safe in regards to the infrastructure, the economy can tank but we still have the means to produce. Security wise thiugh most countries have no intelligence funding. Recently Sweden leaked info on fighter pilots, making the whole country vulnerable to attacks, though the leftist government claimed its all ok and news agencies barely reported anything. What this means is if the fighter pilots got murdered, unprotected as they were, terrorists would have ample time to obliterate the country.

[DocToxin8]

These three options make for a very narrow perspective from what seems to be a quick judgement of all life in the world from your perspective.

Communism is an ideology, not a philosophy. The greatest fallacy within this ideology is the way they treat property rights. In communism there basically are no property rights. The state can take what is yours whenever they want. In the early 1900s they basically took land owners farms and said they shall now work and give 80% of their produce to the state. In russia (read the gulag archipelago if you dont believe me) they took the land owners farms and sent them to siberia with no food or shelter. Guess how well it went for these states that believed that "everyone wants to be useful given the chance". People starved to death. Which also tells us more of communism, they seek to control the means of production and the distribution of wealth.

How does socialism differ? It seems less obvious and less violent. It has evolved from communism because they learned that when they are actually given the means of production, they fail so spectacularly they literally starve to death. Though here in Sweden when you own a private company you are only allowed to take out max $50k per year in salary regardless of how well you perform. For the rest you can hope for the possibility of captial tax gains, but you have to have paid out salaries to "workers" amounting to several times the capital gains. Wow we seem to really own our property here in Scandinavia. The difference in this aspect between communism and socialism is you may pretend you own your property as long as the greatest share of the profits goes to taxes.

Let me express my greatest gratitude for what we get in return here in Sweden, your neighbour socialist world icon, e.g. health care as you mentioned. Like when my mom almost died when they gave her strong sedatives post surgery and didnt check up on her to see her bp and heartbeat was almost gone, and I wished I could have paid for some hospital by myself, someone who did not rely on guaranteed money, to take care of my mom. Or perhaps when I was so delressed I almost killed myself all while the docs I met said its too early to prescribe me any meds. They were obviously competing to provide ne the best service, if they didnt theyd go out of business . Or our educational system here in Sweden, where 60% of the countries top engineeri g colkeges students fail the introductory math course, which is a repetition of high school maths. The same students that got 19,9-20/20 average grades. Do I need to make more examples? Am I really too dumb

Do we need to repeat the same argument infinitely or can we learn? There is no free health care it is either paid directly or through taxes, the latter meaning they dony have to compete for clients and can charge more (this is evident in all countries, look at obamacare).

The US pays more for military and intelligence, yes, and we dont because we rely on them for that.

People who exist on some land and are unable to survive are not entitled to any other persons property just because someone feels they are. That would be theft.

We do not need to be treated as children who are about to get their candy stolen in regards to helping the disabled. Extremely few would be reluctant to donate 1% of their income for those who are unable to provide for those who are unable to provide for themselves.

For those who believe in equality of everything, I believe it should be done just like you said, one should be able to choose their state and live happily ever after, just that there should be as many states as people see fit. In my world property is not defined that way and nobody is entitled to another persons property, and any argument as "oh but Im poor!" is just someone treating me like a child. Let them find participants for their utopia in other ways then by force.

Hope you dont get offended or see it as an attack, I'm just sick of hearing that it has to be some left wing ideology or else there is no health care, education, infrastructure etc. I think deep down you are a good guy but your views on how society should work are not grounded in stringent logic and philosophy, and you tend to conflate concepts and categorize things improperly.

Typed this on my phone hope its not a mess

All good points and a more nuanced view of what I tried to convey really.

When using the terms socialism, I don't mean true socialism, but rather what we call our systems in Norway, Sweden, Denmark and most European countries really, just to varying degrees.
Some places it works better than others.

All the complaints about the healthcare system in Sweden you just listed could have been said about Norway too, though I'm generally quite content with what we got here, but old people, well, to many of them and to expensive to give the care they need in such a system seems to be a real downside.
I've worked in the healthcare system so I do know the shortcomings.
But practically speaking the expenses would be enourmous to pay for the need stroke patients need f.ex.

All services has to be paid in some way.
Whether one would do that through taxes or individual fees is a matter of personal convictions. I see faults with either choice.

[DocToxin8]

Europe is safe in regards to the infrastructure, the economy can tank but we still have the means to produce. Security wise thiugh most countries have no intelligence funding. Recently Sweden leaked info on fighter pilots, making the whole country vulnerable to attacks, though the leftist government claimed its all ok and news agencies barely reported anything. What this means is if the fighter pilots got murdered, unprotected as they were, terrorists would have ample time to obliterate the country.

That's a bad fuckup I agree.
But when terrorists have the power to eliminate 30-70% of Sweden pilot and mount an attack in the wake is the time defense of the country has utterly failed.

[cousinmuscles]

All good points and a more nuanced view of what I tried to convey really.

When using the terms socialism, I don't mean true socialism, but rather what we call our systems in Norway, Sweden, Denmark and most European countries really, just to varying degrees.
Some places it works better than others.

All the complaints about the healthcare system in Sweden you just listed could have been said about Norway too, though I'm generally quite content with what we got here, but old people, well, to many of them and to expensive to give the care they need in such a system seems to be a real downside.
I've worked in the healthcare system so I do know the shortcomings.
But practically speaking the expenses would be enourmous to pay for the need stroke patients need f.ex.

All services has to be paid in some way.
Whether one would do that through taxes or individual fees is a matter of personal convictions. I see faults with either choice.

Yes it's always problematic with definitions. But I just think this whole "it is the responsibility of..." Is horrible. When they get guaranteed income the corruption goes up. I agree health care works well but it could be better. Though costs of stroke patients is still nothing compared to other costs like mass immigration... Its because someone else feels our money belongs to them and they also know what we should want, even though we say the opposite

[MuscleScience]

Yes it's always problematic with definitions. But I just think this whole "it is the responsibility of..." Is horrible. When they get guaranteed income the corruption goes up. I agree health care works well but it could be better. Though costs of stroke patients is still nothing compared to other costs like mass immigration... Its because someone else feels our money belongs to them and they also know what we should want, even though we say the opposite

Socialist governments always do one thing, get bigger. Once the government gains control of one aspect of the citizens life, it goes after another and another and so on. Then they say oh great "free healthcare," but in reality they are just being forced to paying an insurance premium to the government. Or oh awesome "free" college for all, yet everyone is forced to pay tuition for someone else's kids. Well it's the right thing to do for society to advance and continue on as a whole. Ok, what happens when we tax people so much that they can't pay for basic things. Oh that's ok, "free," universial income or housing credit. At this point the government is completely and utterly in control of ever single citizens life. Euros have a long tradition of being under authoritarian rule. Even if you have some quasi-shame election and elect representives who in turn elect the prime minister. It's no different than still being under control of the monarchy.

If it pleases the crown, may I hunt the kings deer, on the kings land, that I farm for the king that the king graciously allows me to live on as long as I pay the king his taxes.

Socialism becomes a crushing and burdensome weight that eventually crushes the State. Putting the word Democractic in front of socialism doesn't change what it is.

[cousinmuscles]

Socialist governments always do one thing, get bigger. Once the government gains control of one aspect of the citizens life, it goes after another and another and so on. Then they say oh great "free healthcare," but in reality they are just being forced to paying an insurance premium to the government. Or oh awesome "free" college for all, yet everyone is forced to pay tuition for someone else's kids. Well it's the right thing to do for society to advance and continue on as a whole. Ok, what happens when we tax people so much that they can't pay for basic things. Oh that's ok, "free," universial income or housing credit. At this point the government is completely and utterly in control of ever single citizens life. Euros have a long tradition of being under authoritarian rule. Even if you have some quasi-shame election and elect representives who in turn elect the prime minister. It's no different than still being under control of the monarchy.

If it pleases the crown, may I hunt the kings deer, on the kings land, that I farm for the king that the king graciously allows me to live on as long as I pay the king his taxes.

Socialism becomes a crushing and burdensome weight that eventually crushes the State. Putting the word Democractic in front of socialism doesn't change what it is.

Agreed 100%. This is why Im optimistic. It's going to die out on it's own. I think we'll have some cycles of hyperinflation before that though, to ease paying off the mountains of debt lol. No worries has happened before countless times.

[MuscleScience]

Agreed 100%. This is why Im optimistic. It's going to die out on it's own. I think we'll have some cycles of hyperinflation before that though, to ease paying off the mountains of debt lol. No worries has happened before countless times.

You would think we would learn from History and you would think the US would be the last place in the world that would have to fight socialism. But then again, when you look at who wants it, it's Elites, government bureaucrats, and lazy people.

The problem with capitalism is that for someone to be successful, they have to compete. There are those that cannot compete and those people we should have a system to help. Mainly driven by private charity I think. There are also people who will not compete and for those people there should be no consideration for. "Those who don't work, shall not eat."

[Obs]

My little town of 900 people just raised over gorty thousand dollars in a two hourcharity auction for a junior in highschool with cancer. A pie at the auction sold for $1200.
Producers take care of their own and socialism is not necessary. Everyone in this town nows and hates socialism. Almost all voted for trump for that reason.

I know it doesn't wprk that way in the city. I don't have an answer forpeople who cannot take care of themselves or their own.

Another i teresting thing, the world record for the most expensive pie ever sold was a few years before this at another charity auction about 30 miles from my town. You could say its a tradition.
That boy withcancer hhas acommunity that can andwill do anything to help and we all have many times. Btw his medical bills are taken care of. The fundraiser auction was for living and traveling expenses.

Can you imagine how the folks in my town would have reacted if dave was forced to buy the $1200 pie?

People can and will take care of themselves. Freedom is not being taken care of when things are bad. Freedom is the duty to do so on one's own accord.

[DocToxin8]

Socialist governments always do one thing, get bigger. Once the government gains control of one aspect of the citizens life, it goes after another and another and so on. Then they say oh great "free healthcare," but in reality they are just being forced to paying an insurance premium to the government. Or oh awesome "free" college for all, yet everyone is forced to pay tuition for someone else's kids. Well it's the right thing to do for society to advance and continue on as a whole. Ok, what happens when we tax people so much that they can't pay for basic things. Oh that's ok, "free," universial income or housing credit. At this point the government is completely and utterly in control of ever single citizens life. Euros have a long tradition of being under authoritarian rule. Even if you have some quasi-shame election and elect representives who in turn elect the prime minister. It's no different than still being under control of the monarchy.

If it pleases the crown, may I hunt the kings deer, on the kings land, that I farm for the king that the king graciously allows me to live on as long as I pay the king his taxes.

Socialism becomes a crushing and burdensome weight that eventually crushes the State. Putting the word Democractic in front of socialism doesn't change what it is.

It's a different way of thinking altogether,
but when we see the last two choices you had in the US for presidents,
well, I can see why you don't trust the state.

We have our king and queen, (which I'm so far very happy we do, their power is mostly symbolic but that symbolic power has deep roots in the people.)
and then the political system which is flawed as fuck, but again, they managed to steer Norway out of the economic collapse that befell most of Europe.
We lost some of our oil fund, but nobody really felt it.

Ofcourse, it is a lot easier to manage a country with so few inhabitants,
but Iceland and Ireland aren't big populations either, and they got screwed royally. (Doing better now though)

I'd say the biggest problem we've had over here is ignorance and arrogance that there are no corruption (it is low, but it does exist), and about many other issues. The only thing people do complain about is immigration, like everywhere.
And while all the parties in reality do exactly the same;
Let in as few as possible. (Which I totally agree with)
Some use a different rhetoric than others.

It is again a matter of belief.

I would think that in an utopian society you would have something along the lines of state that protected the weak, but still allowed personal freedom.
Whether that would really work is another thing.
But my hopes is that we one day get to the point were energy would be free,
(That is we will have the technology for unlimited energy; whether harnessing a star or some other way)
And in such a society things would change dramatically;
Free unlimited energy would change so much it's hard to comprehend.
But that's just a dream so far.

Whatever system one does have, what seems to be crucial for how well the society functions is whether the inhabitants feel part of, taken care of, and would fight/work for that society.
If you feel like the state is a part of you, and that's the norm in the society,
it will flourish.
If people don't, then you usually got problems.
Which is also why multicultural society's are very problematic;
How to unify people of different cultures to the point they would all like to take care of each other?
I think that's possible. But not easy at all.

[NACH3]

Tons of AWESOME & GREAT POINTS fellas! It's sad to see how we all pretty much are saying the same things but it's true in so many levels! We need to get our country back as Cuz and everyone else is basically saying - really sickening though!

[MuscleScience]

It's a different way of thinking altogether,
but when we see the last two choices you had in the US for presidents,
well, I can see why you don't trust the state.

We have our king and queen, (which I'm so far very happy we do, their power is mostly symbolic but that symbolic power has deep roots in the people.)
and then the political system which is flawed as fuck, but again, they managed to steer Norway out of the economic collapse that befell most of Europe.
We lost some of our oil fund, but nobody really felt it.

Ofcourse, it is a lot easier to manage a country with so few inhabitants,
but Iceland and Ireland aren't big populations either, and they got screwed royally. (Doing better now though)

I'd say the biggest problem we've had over here is ignorance and arrogance that there are no corruption (it is low, but it does exist), and about many other issues. The only thing people do complain about is immigration, like everywhere.
And while all the parties in reality do exactly the same;
Let in as few as possible. (Which I totally agree with)
Some use a different rhetoric than others.

It is again a matter of belief.

I would think that in an utopian society you would have something along the lines of state that protected the weak, but still allowed personal freedom.
Whether that would really work is another thing.
But my hopes is that we one day get to the point were energy would be free,
(That is we will have the technology for unlimited energy; whether harnessing a star or some other way)
And in such a society things would change dramatically;
Free unlimited energy would change so much it's hard to comprehend.
But that's just a dream so far.

Whatever system one does have, what seems to be crucial for how well the society functions is whether the inhabitants feel part of, taken care of, and would fight/work for that society.
If you feel like the state is a part of you, and that's the norm in the society,
it will flourish.
If people don't, then you usually got problems.
Which is also why multicultural society's are very problematic;
How to unify people of different cultures to the point they would all like to take care of each other?
I think that's possible. But not easy at all.

Here is what most don't understand about the US. The President does not actually hold that much power. So all this doom and gloom with Obama or Trump is all for not. Only the House and Congress can actually approve or deny anything. It was set up that way for a reason. The people still hold a significant amount of power. (But it's fading) It was designed on purpose to be a slow, battled process to pass law or change direction. So that instantaneous whims would not fundamentally change the character of the country. Trump isn't going to be able to do anything drastic without the congress, and vice versa. We were suppose to be much like the European Union. Independent States with soverenty over themselves. Each US state had a say and had its own sovernty from the Federal Goverenment and other states. It was suppose to be a Federation of like minded states working together. The Federal Government was meant to provide for the common defense and promote the general wellfair. This is exactly what the preamble to the constitution says. However much like the EU has done and all but stripped soverenty from individual nations. The US Federal Governemnt has turned into this gigantic bureuocratic monster where unelected officials in far off places dictate how someone in Nebraska, or New Mexico have to live. The Federal Governemnt was never intended and intact is in violation of the US Federal Constitution, but nothing can be done because guess who enforces and enacts the laws? You guessed it, the federal bureaucracy itself.

That is why many States and Many people are wanting to invoke Article 5 of the US constitution where the States can convine a Constitutional Convention and make amendments and law INDEPENDENT of the Federal Governemnt. It has came down to that, if the US is going to stay this shining city on a hill or go the way of the dinosaurs and melt into this quasi-socialists/capitalist Union much like European countries and that way of thinking. Millions and million and millions of people fled Europe in the 19th and 20th century to get away from that old world way of thinking that perpetuates itself and makes the same mistakes it has always made over and over again.

[PT1982]

Thanks so much for expLaining MS and Ghetto.

And that poster is the most racist thing I've seen in a long while,
I thought it was from the 1800s as a cry for oppressed negroes to fight the white men in an equally racist way that they had been subject to,
then I saw they mentioned Trump and realized it was from our time.

I hope that such groups as this Antifa are exposed as the vile racists they are, just like the Ku Klux Klan, fascist groups everywhere and so on.

I mean, I don't think blacks in general support this craziness.
But I can see that people from lower income groups without education living in places where they feel they got no chance will have a higher tendency to join such radical groups. That's human nature.
The important thing then is to raise this issue and debate it,
so that the country as a whole doesn't get swept into it.
You need people of darker skin to appear or television and denounce such ridiculous groups, just like we need Muslims to be much better at really make a stand (publicly) that they are just as big enemies of ISIS as we are.
(ISIS kills more Muslims than any other faith after all)

(We do have Muslims saying they have nothing to do with ISIS here,
but they need to be much more vigilant about it if it's gonna prevent the polarization ISIS wants to happen.
They need to mount protests and such on their own and show they support our secular based society, which is why they came to the west in the first place)

But back on topic, this is really bad news if it isn't handled well in the US.
If statues of confederate soldiers are to be removed,
(Still something I don't understand, it was not a war about slavery after all,
it was just that the north didn't need slaves to drive their economy so they had much easier to adopt a more civilized view of humankind regarding that issue.
In the south they relied much more on slave labor, so naturally (human nature) they were more hesitant to consider the morality of it.

Such things needs to be discussed in an intelligent way,
not politicized and stupefied to the point where a lot of people gets angry and you just end up feeding racism and polarizing both fronts.

You're right doc. It wasn't solely about slaves. That was just a part of it. It boils down to white guilt and white shame these days. They want to liberate everyone the way they see fit. I had nothing to do with owning slaves like the black people today had nothing to do with being slaves. It's ancient history, yet our last commander in chief brainwashed the masses and this is what we're left with. You wouldn't believe the nonsense that has been directed towards me just by simply going shopping at the mall! I'm over it all. I don't hope for any violence, but if taking action makes them label me a racist, so be it. I've got not one racist bone in my body. I do however have patience that's about to run out.

[PT1982]

Err, while it's good to be prepared,
and one could definitely argue for being prepared for some economic crash or even war, I think you're preoccupation with planning for this might make you a bit paranoid, understandably so.
FEMA concentration camps?
(And yes I'd think FEMA would have some "coffins" at their disposal,
but those would be for all hazardous material I would think)

But whatever,
look at history, how have nations fared during economic collapse in the past?

But having ammo for hunting, food, medicines, and so on doesn't hurt much except your wallet.

I think Europe is stable enough for this not to happen,
Not in the scale that would need to happen before stored food would make sense at least.
(And while the future of the US doesn't look bright right now,
I think at most you're headed for a 1930 types depression. Which would be bad enough.)

But if prepping gives you a feeling of security then by all means.

There is a difference between being prepared and letting fear consume you. I'm the type of person who will buy a little extra of whatever just to have it. In doing so I have been able to stock plenty of whatever I may need. The warning signs are there unless you have your head buried in the sand. I would rather have too much and not need it than to need it and not have enough.
And as for the fema coffins, they're there and there is hundreds of thousands or possibly millions. Stacked in rows. That's not hearsay but it is fact. Of course I'm not going to let it worry me, I just want to be ready for whatever may happen. And it will at some point. Maybe not on my lifetime, but I don't think this planet will be here much longer.

[PT1982]

Where is this at? I've never heard a thing about it.

Right off of interstate 75 between Covington and Atlanta. I'll hit Google maps and I'll post it. I actually saw a decent video on it I will post as well. Super creepy. The residence in the area knows what it is but they just go on about their lives. Its strange.

[Obs]

Here is what most don't understand about the US. The President does not actually hold that much power. So all this doom and gloom with Obama or Trump is all for not. Only the House and Congress can actually approve or deny anything. It was set up that way for a reason. The people still hold a significant amount of power. (But it's fading) It was designed on purpose to be a slow, battled process to pass law or change direction. So that instantaneous whims would not fundamentally change the character of the country. Trump isn't going to be able to do anything drastic without the congress, and vice versa. We were suppose to be much like the European Union. Independent States with soverenty over themselves. Each US state had a say and had its own sovernty from the Federal Goverenment and other states. It was suppose to be a Federation of like minded states working together. The Federal Government was meant to provide for the common defense and promote the general wellfair. This is exactly what the preamble to the constitution says. However much like the EU has done and all but stripped soverenty from individual nations. The US Federal Governemnt has turned into this gigantic bureuocratic monster where unelected officials in far off places dictate how someone in Nebraska, or New Mexico have to live. The Federal Governemnt was never intended and intact is in violation of the US Federal Constitution, but nothing can be done because guess who enforces and enacts the laws? You guessed it, the federal bureaucracy itself.

That is why many States and Many people are wanting to invoke Article 5 of the US constitution where the States can convine a Constitutional Convention and make amendments and law INDEPENDENT of the Federal Governemnt. It has came down to that, if the US is going to stay this shining city on a hill or go the way of the dinosaurs and melt into this quasi-socialists/capitalist Union much like European countries and that way of thinking. Millions and million and millions of people fled Europe in the 19th and 20th century to get away from that old world way of thinking that perpetuates itself and makes the same mistakes it has always made over and over again.

What you mention at the last would be harmonious for a long time. Its certain states like Ca and Ma.
We literally need States rights back just to preserve the Union. You cannot place Los Angeles ideals on Drexel Mo people. They would sooner fight to the death.
I just got done chatting with a very good friend about this. He, just like me, is on the verge of physical action. This man is nothing short of extremely intelligent. His will be done to 1200 yrds and beyond.
We aren't rioters, we aren't stirring shit, but we are both getting sick of this movement. Some idiots just painted "take it down" on a Joan of Arc statue for God's sake! How fucking stupid!

This is my ancestry! This is my history! I am distant relation to CSA Gen.John Bell Hood! Talk is getting cheaper by the minute! What good is bitching and sitting by idly?
I mean, do you really think once the last monument has been destroyed the government or anyone will do anything to reverse this? Once they are gone they wont be building new ones back.

My friend flys an American flag with a confederate flag just below it. He literally takes both down every day without fail rain or shine. Now, the man that tries in any way to disrupt either of his flags will die. It is an honor thing that he, I, and people like us are willing to kill and die for.
If this does not end in violence I see zero hope for this country whatsoever. I don't want it, I want peace. Some things are sacred though. If they want to destroy the things we hold sacred they must be stopped and I doubt they have it peacefully.

This whole thing is disgraceful.

[PT1982]

https://youtu.be/m3zSDdm-SHI

Make sure to listen to who owns them. Also, keep in mind I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm a skeptic. But I also have some intelligence and am smart enough to not just shrug things off when my interest has been struck.

[DocToxin8]

Great post about the limit of presidents power MS.
I actually knew that, as there are quite a few examples of American presidents having been temporarily "out of action", from being too drunk to heavily depressed or whatever, meaning you need safe guards.
I tried to convey this to doomsayers when Trump got in office. But it's generally not well understood.

As for these FEMA coffins;
let's say they are in fact coffins,
(Even though I don't think I'd use plastic containers without smooth surfaces in the bottom to contain rotting material, I'd rather use em for transport of, well, what about soy beans for instance? But whatever.
If they are to be used as coffins during a pandemic/nuclear attack,
then I'd say this;
The contractor in question is one lucky SOB, bordering on corruption,
and id be mighty pissed if tax dollars went to such nonsense.
But I don't see it as any signs that those coffins would actually be filled one day.
(Other than the fact that a pandemic is something you never can totally safeguard against)

The video is really not to convincing either;
They look at these boxes,
They said they are called "coffin liners",
a name I don't think they officially have, but can imagine the ones who work to transport them could give em as nicknames,
they only consider them to be about transporting human bodies,
Neglecting they can be used to transport anything.
They then talk about some other political meet where some guy again uses the old "missing USSR nukes" to rev up fear and support for their line of politics,
but uses his argument about that to understand why these boxes are there.

I do think CDC and such must (or should) have some plans for how to deal with autopsies and the masses of dead bodies that would happen during an outbreak. But I don't see any evidence this is related to that.
But if it was, what does it mean?


I have to say this thread is very interesting on many points,
seems like shit have to change in the US pretty fast cause the level of distrust in the prevailing system doesn't look good at all.

[Capebuffalo]

Great post about the limit of presidents power MS.
I actually knew that, as there are quite a few examples of American presidents having been temporarily "out of action", from being too drunk to heavily depressed or whatever, meaning you need safe guards.
I tried to convey this to doomsayers when Trump got in office. But it's generally not well understood.

As for these FEMA coffins;
let's say they are in fact coffins,
(Even though I don't think I'd use plastic containers without smooth surfaces in the bottom to contain rotting material, I'd rather use em for transport of, well, what about soy beans for instance? But whatever.
If they are to be used as coffins during a pandemic/nuclear attack,
then I'd say this;
The contractor in question is one lucky SOB, bordering on corruption,
and id be mighty pissed if tax dollars went to such nonsense.
But I don't see it as any signs that those coffins would actually be filled one day.
(Other than the fact that a pandemic is something you never can totally safeguard against)

The video is really not to convincing either;
They look at these boxes,
They said they are called "coffin liners",
a name I don't think they officially have, but can imagine the ones who work to transport them could give em as nicknames,
they only consider them to be about transporting human bodies,
Neglecting they can be used to transport anything.
They then talk about some other political meet where some guy again uses the old "missing USSR nukes" to rev up fear and support for their line of politics,
but uses his argument about that to understand why these boxes are there.

I do think CDC and such must (or should) have some plans for how to deal with autopsies and the masses of dead bodies that would happen during an outbreak. But I don't see any evidence this is related to that.
But if it was, what does it mean?


I have to say this thread is very interesting on many points,
seems like shit have to change in the US pretty fast cause the level of distrust in the prevailing system doesn't look good at all.

Doc the CDC does have a plan to contain. Hardly anyone knows or has thought about it. If you look at the interstates in GA I-285 is a 68 mile circle surrounding Atlanta. Most of it is elevated. An outbreak in the city and the Nation Guard is on 285 surrounding the city keeping people in. It truly is a military safeguard. A lot of major citys have these "by passes ". All they are is a containment system.

[DocToxin8]

Doc the CDC does have a plan to contain. Hardly anyone knows or has thought about it. If you look at the interstates in GA I-285 is a 68 mile circle surrounding Atlanta. Most of it is elevated. An outbreak in the city and the Nation Guard is on 285 surrounding the city keeping people in. It truly is a military safeguard. A lot of major citys have these "by passes ". All they are is a containment system.

That may very well be true.
But what alternative is there?

I'd hate for friends, relatives and such to be locked into a town with an outbreak of airborne plague, Ebola, etc.
On the other hand, if the nearest village is infected you'd hope it doesn't spread to yours.
With outbreaks in major cities I think it will be almost impossible to contain though. Would probably be better to set up camps that people can flee TO from the big cities. But when a pandemic hits then you best just hope that you are far away and have some cabin or such to hold up in.

[Capebuffalo]

That may very well be true.
But what alternative is there?

I'd hate for friends, relatives and such to be locked into a town with an outbreak of airborne plague, Ebola, etc.
On the other hand, if the nearest village is infected you'd hope it doesn't spread to yours.
With outbreaks in major cities I think it will be almost impossible to contain though. Would probably be better to set up camps that people can flee TO from the big cities. But when a pandemic hits then you best just hope that you are far away and have some cabin or such to hold up in.

Infected or not nobody is leaving once they go to lock down. I live and work outside of the perimeter. My wife works inside.

[MuscleScience]

This is all I have got to say about removing the confederate flag and such.

[DocToxin8]

Infected or not nobody is leaving once they go to lock down. I live and work outside of the perimeter. My wife works inside.

That would give me some concern as well.
Though if you think about it, you'll probably see the signs long before this happens. Unless your city is ground zero that is.
Pray that never happens.

[Obs]

Doc the CDC does have a plan to contain. Hardly anyone knows or has thought about it. If you look at the interstates in GA I-285 is a 68 mile circle surrounding Atlanta. Most of it is elevated. An outbreak in the city and the Nation Guard is on 285 surrounding the city keeping people in. It truly is a military safeguard. A lot of major citys have these "by passes ". All they are is a containment system.

All interstates are containment systems! Glad to hear someone bring that up! I grew up watching two lanes become for lanes and missing my exit then having to drive 15 min out of the way to get back to my exit.

Every exit is a control point and this is precisely why the interstate sytem grows every day. The federal government literally controls every aspect of the road travel grid.
They can lock down anyone at any time by the town. They can do so in about ten minutes anywhere without the public having knowledge of it until its too late.

[DocToxin8]

All interstates are containment systems! Glad to hear someone bring that up! I grew up watching two lanes become for lanes and missing my exit then having to drive 15 min out of the way to get back to my exit.

Every exit is a control point and this is precisely why the interstate sytem grows every day. The federal government literally controls every aspect of the road travel grid.
They can lock down anyone at any time by the town. They can do so in about ten minutes anywhere without the public having knowledge of it until its too late.

I think it's more apt to say; all interstates can be used as containment systems.
And 10mins notice?
They might be able to put up a roadblock in 10min,
but to contain a whole city, that probably takes a bit longer unless you're more effective at it than the Germans was during WW2, and they had more real world experience doing it.

But that is a little besides the point.

As I said, it would be a nightmare to have loved ones (or oneself) locked into a city during an outbreak.
But what alternatives do you propose?

The reason they managed to stem on of the aggressive Ebola outbreaks (in the 90s) was because it happened in small villages were they just locked the sick inside the buildings, and when they died (which most did), they torched the whole building. Such an approach would not work in a big city.

I would suspect that most countries has plans in case of pandemics and mass riots and the like.
The unfortunate side effect of that is that if you ever come in a situation were revolution would be what people want/need, it would be much harder.

[Obs]

I think it's more apt to say; all interstates can be used as containment systems.
And 10mins notice?
They might be able to put up a roadblock in 10min,
but to contain a whole city, that probably takes a bit longer unless you're more effective at it than the Germans was during WW2, and they had more real world experience doing it.

But that is a little besides the point.

As I said, it would be a nightmare to have loved ones (or oneself) locked into a city during an outbreak.
But what alternatives do you propose?

The reason they managed to stem on of the aggressive Ebola outbreaks (in the 90s) was because it happened in small villages were they just locked the sick inside the buildings, and when they died (which most did), they torched the whole building. Such an approach would not work in a big city.

I would suspect that most countries has plans in case of pandemics and mass riots and the like.
The unfortunate side effect of that is that if you ever come in a situation were revolution would be what people want/need, it would be much harder.

Dhs, fbi, atf, army, navy, airforce, and any federal government agency such as cdc can immdiately use local law enforcement to lock down all roads at a moments notice. In about thirty minutes national guard can be scrambled to take over and within an hour federal agencies can have total control over all.

Ten years ago I could lose any cop on 71hwy. Many of us good ol boys did just that. Now if they try to stop youon 71 (which became I-49) you will not get away because you cannot turn off. In places where you can take your vehicle such as a 4x4 off road the put up containment cables.
Interstates are nice containment systems. Back when we all drove primarily state highways you could lose LE in no time flat. Now all they have to do is scramble cars to the exits and you are screwed. The containment cables that are put up are for no other reason than to keep you in the cattle path.

[songdog]

Personally when they do things like that LE don't need tear gas or water guns just spray the protesters down with a M60! I get so tired of seeing protesters tearing and burning things down.This maybe a bad way of thinking but someone else is paying for their BS beacuse most are on food stamps.So do the country a favor and tell everyone if this protest turns violent you will be shot on sight.Why should LE stand there and get things thrown at them spit on only to have charges brought up on them if they arrest someone beacuse he was too rough on him.

[RaginCajun]

http://truthfeed.com/breaking-craigs...esters/103486/

Looks like Phoenix will be interesting

[RaginCajun]

http://truthfeed.com/breaking-craigs...esters/103486/

Looks like Phoenix will be interesting

https://t.co/X69T6a7U5c?amp=1

[DHew]

Songdog, we use the M240 now you old fart.

[Obs]

Songdog, we use the M240 now you old fart.

You would think he would have SAW that by now.

[songdog]

You would think he would have SAW that by now.

I have but it didn't come to mind fast enough

[PT1982]

Doc the CDC does have a plan to contain. Hardly anyone knows or has thought about it. If you look at the interstates in GA I-285 is a 68 mile circle surrounding Atlanta. Most of it is elevated. An outbreak in the city and the Nation Guard is on 285 surrounding the city keeping people in. It truly is a military safeguard. A lot of major citys have these "by passes ". All they are is a containment system.

One could sit on the side of the freeway in the areas you're speaking of and see military vehicles of all types in groups all day. I've seen equipment that had blown my mind down there! I saw 4 giant D9 dozers with bullet proof glass and IED shields underneath. These massive pieces of equipment are not built to move dirt around. They have a purpose. What that is, I can only speculate. But we need to hope for the best but prep for the worst. Crap, NASA just issued a warning to expect/prepare for possible alien visors (not illegals) for crying out loud. Couple that with CERN, who's logo contains 666, and project blue beam...... who knows what the NWO elites have in store. If you believe that sort of thing might be true..... look it up!

[DocToxin8]

Ok, CERN isn't much to be afraid of.
Know lots of people that been there, worked there,
it's a tool to study physics you otherwise can't.

Blue beam?
Are you talking about that natural phenomenon that happens when airplanes go over you, and it can look like an additional "beam" or shadow of exhaust that some believe is poison?
That's also very far out there.

I think when looking at conspiracy theories one should ask oneself;
What's the simplest solution to this?
Cause it usually is.

And companies want to make money.
Some seem to think the drug industry want to make people sick.
What's the simplest answer to that?
Do they need to make people sick?
No, plenty of patients to sell to, especially now that things that wasn't considered sickness before now is, like erectile dysfunction in a 60yo.
The drug industry is cynical, but want to make money.
They wouldn't do anything to risk a mass lawsuit unnecessarily.

This wandered a bit from removing statues though.

Have to say I still don't understand why they do that,
but it seems like the US focus on some collective guilt about slavery to avoid looking at other problems. In a sense, it's all smoke and mirrors.
Very fucked up.
The only solice I can give is that it won't go on forever,
enough people get fed up and you get a big enough countermovement to stop it.
That's what's starting to happen here regarding removing paintings of pigs from dental offices and the like. People are starting to say; no fucking more.
And it isn't even violent.

So there's hope for you too fellow US allies!
(Even though you're all crazy! )

[Max562]

This shit is so stupid...after the civil war Louisiana had a black governor briefly..Mississippi had the first black speaker of the house after the civil war...blacks were on there wayjoining the Republican Party...democrats in the feared losing control..hence kkk..the muscle to suppress the black vote,black could vote everywhere except the south since the civil war..suppressed by democrats for fear of losing control..there wasn't a republican in office in the south until mid 70's I believe and very few....now they own the south...statues have nothing to do with it it's the south bringing up the past and flipping the script as usual...what do you expect...if you uneducated and don't know your history you just a dumb m.f. Following the masses...once they were to vote in the south they just enslaved the back community to the federal government...give them meager consumable barely enough to get by throw them in section 8 make the dependent on the government for the vote..they're still slave..and still under the democrats thumb dependent on the government...most smart blacks know this...all the statue thing is, is the democrats race baiting at the lowest levels....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Obs]

This shit is so stupid...after the civil war Louisiana had a black governor briefly..Mississippi had the first black speaker of the house after the civil war...blacks were on there wayjoining the Republican Party...democrats in the feared losing control..hence kkk..the muscle to suppress the black vote,black could vote everywhere except the south since the civil war..suppressed by democrats for fear of losing control..there wasn't a republican in office in the south until mid 70's I believe and very few....now they own the south...statues have nothing to do with it it's the south bringing up the past and flipping the script as usual...what do you expect...if you uneducated and don't know your history you just a dumb m.f. Following the masses...once they were to vote in the south they just enslaved the back community to the federal government...give them meager consumable barely enough to get by throw them in section 8 make the dependent on the government for the vote..they're still slave..and still under the democrats thumb dependent on the government...most smart blacks know this...all the statue thing is, is the democrats race baiting at the lowest levels....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Almost everyone feels the same. No one has came to this thread advocating for whats going on. No one will. We are literally letting minorities of minorities run the show because we are afraid of being labled bigots.

[DHew]

You would think he would have SAW that by now.

Wrong. SAW is an acronym for the M249, the Squad Automatic Weapon. Nice try.

[calgarian]

Not going to go into politics and reasoning. But the amount of racism I have seen in US is pretty pathetic to be honest. I am from Canada and had no clue how much color of skin matters till I come to US. I saw interview on the local morning show where there were cpl of dark skin guys saying how the nomination for "Golden globe" (i think) has to little colored people nominated. and met one girl who will only watch movies that has "colored" people in it. or the white white supremacist rally where people got killed because color of their skin was different. I was like WTF? I was told when growing up dont judge people by their color of skin or religion judge them by their actions. I am just in awe about reading and seeing all that.