Physical weakness and it’s link to socialist beliefs

[Obs]

It’s funny you bring up feminized males and boys lacking a father. Here’s an article I recalled reading a while back (I’m a Ben Shapiro fan, I’ll own that) about fathers needing to raise men.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.new...977142%3famp=1

To grab a quick quote “The social science on the necessity of fatherhood is absolutely clear. According to a massive recent Harvard study, the most powerful factor putting young men at risk of criminal behavior and poverty is lack of fathers in the neighborhood—not even fathers in the home, fathers in the neighborhood more generally. A prevalence of responsible men can even help compensate for lack of fathers in the home.”
Let modern pussy culture continue raising boys.....
To your limp wristed comment, holy shit man that’s great. A common descriptor my father used all growing up and even to this day to describe most young men is “limp wristed faggots”. I’ve continued using the term and hope someday my boy will use it!

Yes.
That is the key determining factor too.
Half the males out there younger than me get handed a handshake at a social event and they get a lost look. It is not an assertion of dominance but they always bend over and expose their genitals, (metaphorically) so it becomes an immediate determining factor.

Victims are everywhere.
So eager to establish themselves as lower down to someone dominant without even realizing it.

[Jayd85]

Yes.
That is the key determining factor too.
Half the males out there younger than me get handed a handshake at a social event and they get a lost look. It is not an assertion of dominance but they always bend over and expose their genitals, (metaphorically) so it becomes an immediate determining factor.

Victims are everywhere.
So eager to establish themselves as lower down to someone dominant without even realizing it.

You nailed it dead nuts. They’d rather have your pity than your respect.

[Obs]

You nailed it dead nuts. They’d rather have your pity than your respect.

I need someone to teach me how to raise girls though.
My youngest is a sweetheart. She cant do wring in my eyes because of her selflessness. I know she will try before long.

So I let the women discipline her lol

[Jayd85]

I need someone to teach me how to raise girls though.
My youngest is a sweetheart. She cant do wring in my eyes because of her selflessness. I know she will try before long.

So I let the women discipline her lol

I’ve got no advice there. My buddies refer to my 8 year old daughter as the warden. It’s no secret who’s pulling my strings.

[Beetlegeuse]

This meshes well with Rush Limbaugh's theory that the Feminist movement was created to give unattractive women equal access. Those who were less blessed by nature than others seek redress through intrusive government.

[Proximal]

May I suggest eugenics instead.

[Obs]

"My friend, Thomas Jefferson is an American saint because he wrote the words "All men are created equal", words he clearly didn't believe since he allowed his own children to live in slavery. He's was a rich white snob who was sick of paying taxes to the Brits. So, yeah, he writes some lovely words and aroused the rebels and they went and died for those words while he sat back and drank his wine and f***** his slave girl. This guy wants to tell me we're living in a community? Don't make me laugh. I'm living in America, and in America you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business. Now fuckin' pay me."

[EDCG19]

May I suggest eugenics instead.

This is already in the works

[Proximal]

America's not a country. It's just a business.

You might enjoy a book called "IBM & The Holocaust". Kinda explains how the Nazi's could be so meticulous & specific in judging the degree of the Jewishness of the populations they were invading. F'n A it's a business, just ask the Indians.

[Proximal]

This is already in the works

Not on a national scale & not one necessary to create enough change in a nation. I could kind of see it perceived that way at a socioeconomic level, but not in the sense that I thought that weakness was used here on this thread.

[Obs]

You might enjoy a book called "IBM & The Holocaust". Kinda explains how the Nazi's could be so meticulous & specific in judging the degree of the Jewishness of the populations they were invading. F'n A it's a business, just ask the Indians.

I feel no pity for the savages that raped and killed my ancestors. America is the greatest terrain on the planet. Of course we cant let a bunch of retarded apes have it.
They had it thousands of years and were chucking spears. We had it 200 years and accumulated 50% of the earths wealth.

Capitalism is sink or swim.
Kinda like immigration. The Indians did not watch their immigration well enough.

We dont need a wall. We need a 3 mile deep gun line. Once you cross the sign post you are done.

[Proximal]

I feel no pity for the savages that raped and killed my ancestors. America is the greatest terrain on the planet. Of course we cant let a bunch of retarded apes have it.
They had it thousands of years and were chucking spears. We had it 200 years and accumulated 50% of the earths wealth.

Capitalism is sink or swim.
Kinda like immigration. The Indians did not watch their immigration well enough.

We dont need a wall. We need a 3 mile deep gun line. Once you cross the sign post you are done.

Pity for the Indians was not my point at all. My point was confirmation of your statement that we are a business. A title for a Megadeath song is "killing is my business & business is good".

Please don't confuse me as being a bleeding heart , TY!

[EDCG19]

Not on a national scale & not one necessary to create enough change in a nation. I could kind of see it perceived that way at a socioeconomic level, but not in the sense that I thought that weakness was used here on this thread.

what do you mean by this? not sure i follow..

[Obs]

Pity for the Indians was not my point at all. My point was confirmation of your statement that we are a business. A title for a Megadeath song is "killing is my business & business is good".

Please don't confuse me as being a bleeding heart , TY!

I didnt think you did.
I was babbling.
Trying to distract myself.

[Proximal]

what do you mean by this? not sure i follow..

Just my weird perspective. Take public education. So you don't want certain population groups to prosper? You don't funnel money into the schools, the more wealthy & those parents that don't want their kids disadvantaged, pay through the nose for private schools. Right there you are selectively "breeding" populations purely based on education or lack of.

Regarding this thread, and I believe I understand where it's coming from, positive eugenics is selectively breeding individuals for their strengths, while negative eugenics is gradually eliminating them from society. The Nazi's were in great admiration of our laws and practices. They didn't have a creative idea in their heads, but had the mind set to take it to another level.

Again, I'm not a bleeding heart, I give a fuck about very few people & things. I'm just saying if we really want to go after a "better" society, we need to take things to another level & stop worrying about being PC & human rights. Frankly, I can give a fuck about either.

[Proximal]

I didnt think you did.
I was babbling.
Trying to distract myself.

Yeah, in your farmhouse this morning you sounded distressed, I was/am worried. You ok?

[Obs]

Well, you know - I have a large member. In standing, gravity pulls my d-hole down to an 80-90 degree angle. This means if I’m sleepy and not paying attention while standing up, well, piss goes south badly. In sitting, not a problem.

Just guessing mathematically and physics wise. IF I had a short member, well that would be pointed at an angle that while standing would still hit the toilet, yet in sitting just might not make it in the bowl.

Maybe you have it wrong.

They need to make lie down toilets for guys like me that always have a hard on.

[Proximal]

they need to make lie down toilets for guys like me that always have a hard on.

lmao

[Beetlegeuse]

As the saying goes, politics is show business for the ugly.


As for Jefferson and slavery, firstly, nobody in his right mind thinks all men are created equal. Everybody who's ever been in an open-bay shower with other naked men knows that that's bullshit. If all men were created equal then we all could play in the NFL and be brain surgeons and make porn flicks on the side. All equally. It was a truncated platitude that in its entirety went something more like 'In God's eyes, all men are created equal.' Justice might be blind so that all men are treated equally, but you get more equal treatment if you can afford a better lawyer.

And it's pointless to look at 18th Century morals through 21st Century eyes. Every culture that has ever existed practiced slavery at one time or another, at least some of every peoples that have ever existed were subjected to it. In Jefferson's day there were white Christian slaves in the hundreds of thousands in Ottoman Turkey and the Barbary Coast of Africa.

The American colonials didn't invent slavery, weren't even the first North Americans to practice it, and the form of slavery they practiced was well less cruel than was the standard in South America and the Caribbean nations.

Even many of the the freed Africans thought slavery was a good thing. American freedmen -- slaves released from bondage -- were three times as likely to keep slaves themselves as a white man born to freedom.

The book that served as the foundational history of the Christian, Judaic and Mohammedan religions speaks of slavery repeatedly but never condemns the practice. And on top of it all there's more enslaved people in the world today than at any other time in history but I don't see many people getting all exercised about a crusade to end slavery in China or North Korea or Dubai.

So until we free the 30 or so million people living in bondage today, I can't get too enthused over publicly pillorying a man who's been dead for more than 200 years because he engaged in something that was an accepted practice just about everywhere in the world.

[Obs]

As the saying goes, politics is show business for the ugly.


As for Jefferson and slavery, firstly, nobody in his right mind thinks all men are created equal. Everybody who's ever been in an open-bay shower with other naked men knows that that's bullshit. If all men were created equal then we all could play in the NFL and be brain surgeons and make porn flicks on the side. All equally. It was a truncated platitude that in its entirety went something more like 'In God's eyes, all men are created equal.' Justice might be blind so that all men are treated equally, but you get more equal treatment if you can afford a better lawyer.

And it's pointless to look at 18th Century morals through 21st Century eyes. Every culture that has ever existed practiced slavery at one time or another, at least some of every peoples that have ever existed were subjected to it. In Jefferson's day there were white Christian slaves in the hundreds of thousands in Ottoman Turkey and the Barbary Coast of Africa.

The American colonials didn't invent slavery, weren't even the first North Americans to practice it, and the form of slavery they practiced was well less cruel than was the standard in South America and the Caribbean nations.

Even many of the the freed Africans thought slavery was a good thing. American freedmen -- slaves released from bondage -- were three times as likely to keep slaves themselves as a white man born to freedom.

The book that served as the foundational history of the Christian, Judaic and Mohammedan religions speaks of slavery repeatedly but never condemns the practice. And on top of it all there's more enslaved people in the world today than at any other time in history but I don't see many people getting all exercised about a crusade to end slavery in China or North Korea or Dubai.

So until we free the 30 or so million people living in bondage today, I can't get too enthused over publicly pillorying a man who's been dead for more than 200 years because he engaged in something that was an accepted practice just about everywhere in the world.

What about the slavery in the US that steals 40% of my income?

The jefferson speech was just to get the point across about how politicians and capitalism actually work.

The founding fathers were rich pricks and actually didn't give two shits about anything but money and power. Same as everyone else.
They just didnt have the media propaganda we have today.

Yet we still tell our kids about "Honest Abe" chopping down the cherrry tree.
Today people would laugh that shit off as the stupid ass propoganda tactic it was.

Politicians arent new. They have all, always been, and always will be lying two faced cocks which will do anything to get into their seat.
You have to be to get that seat.

Even smalltown mayors are brown nosing lying ass shit bags in most cases. Once you step into the big leauges like the senate.....

[Proximal]

What about the slavery in the US that steals 40% of my income?

The jefferson speech was just to get the point across about how politicians and capitalism actually work.

The founding fathers were rich pricks and actually didn't give two shits about anything but money and power. Same as everyone else.
They just didnt have the media propaganda we have today.

Yet we still tell our kids about "Honest Abe" chopping down the cherrry tree.
Today people would laugh that shit off as the stupid ass propoganda tactic it was.

Politicians arent new. They have all, always been, and always will be lying two faced cocks which will do anything to get into their seat.
You have to be to get that seat.

Even smalltown mayors are brown nosing lying ass shit bags in most cases. Once you step into the big leauges like the senate.....

Just my impression of what I've read, I don't think I can write off the founding fathers quite as harshly as yourself. Flawless altruistic heroes, no; but I do feel their was something there that was far less self centered as many of today's politicians.

I was not a fan of Jefferson though after I read about his battles with Adams and did see him more closely mirror what is happening in today's politicians.

May I take a step back and say thank you to everyone that although as a group of guys who (some more than others) are dedicated to drugs enhancing their physiques, can have intelligent, well thought out and out of the box discussions as these (yeah, drinking, a bit sentimental).

[Obs]

Just my impression of what I've read, I don't think I can write off the founding fathers quite as harshly as yourself. Flawless altruistic heroes, no; but I do feel their was something there that was far less self centered as many of today's politicians.

I was not a fan of Jefferson though after I read about his battles with Adams and did see him more closely mirror what is happening in today's politicians.

May I take a step back and say thank you to everyone that although as a group of guys who (some more than others) are dedicated to drugs enhancing their physiques, can have intelligent, well thought out and out of the box discussions as these (yeah, drinking, a bit sentimental).

Indeed.
I hope you dont think I am being rude to you or anyone.

Just speaking my mind.

I will try to explain this as best I can. I do not mean it rude.

People today believe we as human beings are somehow more conniving and inteligent than ever before.

They tend to see the world thinking that since they rode horses and didn't have our advancements, they were dumb. The elites were just as smart, charismatic, and decietful as always. The average individual was incredibly more persuasive because of lack of info and education.

[Proximal]

Indeed.
I hope you dont think I am being rude to you or anyone.

Just speaking my mind.

I will try to explain this as best I can. I do not mean it rude.

People today believe we as human beings are somehow more conniving and inteligent than ever before.

They tend to see the world thinking that since they rode horses and didn't have our advancements, they were dumb. The elites were just as smart, charismatic, and decietful as always. The average individual was incredibly more persuasive because of lack of info and education.

Fuck bro, speak away! If you are rude to me or offend me, I don’t care, simply because I don’t think that you are an asshole & when you speak your mind completely it’s because it is you & not some some version of what you want to be perceived as.

The few dudes that I drink with; we can say anything to each other, because we know it’s from our minds and hearts and not some bs meant to push buttons. It’s called communication, what a lost fucking skill.

I agree, we as humans have not truly evolved a bit.

[Beetlegeuse]

What about the slavery in the US that steals 40% of my income?...

Honestly, Obs, I didn't want to go there because it opens up a whole 'nother can of worms but I am appalled that more Americans don't recognize an income tax for what it is: indentured servitude. The government claims ownership of the fruits of your labors for a substantial portion of the year. Something that would have had the Founding Fathers turning over in their graves because one of their core beliefs was that a man should be the sole owner of what he himself has created.

And an income tax is THE most regressive form of taxation possible because when times are hard, there is NOTHING you can do to reduce your indebtedness to the government that doesn't also negatively impact your gross income.

An income tax is immoral and I'm sure the Dead Old Rich White Guys would agree with me on that point.

...The founding fathers were rich pricks and actually didn't give two shits about anything but money and power. Same as everyone else....

Anybody who doesn't endeavor to increase their own wealth is either an idiot or a monk. Being rich is no sin and being jealous of the rich for no other reason than they're rich is a manifestation of self-loathing. It's also the fundamental and defining characteristic of all progressivist/socialist/communist [pick one] movements.

Without getting into the side issue of slavery, which is a holy war all to itself, the Founding Fathers made their wealth through entrepreneurship. Nobody got poorer as they got richer, they got richer because they succeeded in investing and risking their own talents and their own assets to create more wealth. They grew it, they didn't steal it.

In a speech he gave at Georgetown University in 2012 (it's on YouTube), even Bono (rich asshole rock star) admitted that America's greatest gift to the world was the idea of capitalism, because capitalism reduces poverty.

And I find it absurd to contend that they would forsake England for America just to become rich because the richest man in America lived less lavishly than any low-placed nobleman or aristocrat in England.

The best clothing and wines all came from Europe. Virtually all the tea and paper products came from Europe. In 1776 there were only two places on earth where they made fine porcelain china, Saxony (in what is now Germany) and China itself. And you can't possibly have a rich asshole's fancy dining room without fine china. Which meant rich assholes in America would have to pay for it to be shipped across the Atlantic ocean or they couldn't have it.

Riches effectively bought more tangible wealth in England than in the Colonies for the simple fact that England was part of Europe and America was a weeks-long sea voyage away. All the trappings of wealth came from Europe, so why the hell didn't they just move there rather than living in the backwater settlements that were Colonial America?

They stayed in America because the Founding Fathers knew they were building something besides wealth, they were building a new nation, one whose like the world had never seen before.

America was the first nation that ever embraced capitalism and entrepreneurship as one of its core beliefs, and the first nation that ever existed that grew rich largely without the use of conquest ethos.

Other cultures have as much as reviled the merchant and the shopkeeper. In the caste system of India's Hindu religion, the merchant is in the next-to-lowest category. Arab historian Ibn Khaldun wrote that looting is morally preferable to being a merchant or a tradesman, because looting is a "manly" pursuit. To loot you must first face the man in open combat and defeat him. Whereas all the merchant need do is lie in wait for his victim. Not in the least manly.

For an English aristocrat of the era, to have been involved in any form of trade or entrepreneurship was to disgrace their family name. Which amounted to the entrenchment of an economic system where the only way you could get rich was to be born that way. It essentially was the same philosophy that underpinned their monarchy: if God had wanted you to be rich, you'd have been born that way.

The British system was so intent on holding down "the little man" that they even created a special denomination of currency -- the guinea -- that was reserved for aristocrats. And most fine goods could only be bought with guineas, and were not for sale for an equivalent value with pounds sterling. Which made these goods exclusive to the upper classes. Industrialists, entrepreneurs, inventors and merchants need not apply.

Lacking any ability to "grow" wealth internally (i.e., a "value-added" economy), the only way to gain it is to take it from someone who already has it. Conquest ethos. Every wealthy nation that ever existed got that way through conquest ethos. Colonization and exploitation.

All except one. The United States of America. America was created with an enthusiasm for entrepreneurship and the value-added economy. Because the rich asshole Founding Fathers recognized there is no other way to grow yourself rich than a value added economy.

And a rising tide lifts all boats. In a capitalism-driven free-market economy, no one ever gets rich in isolation. The rich always have financial coattails. And the richer they are, the longer their coattails.


Rome got rich through conquest. Expansion of the empire at the point of a gladius. The most of the Roman Forum, the ruins of which today are the very icon of Rome's greatness, were built by the Emperor Trajan. Trajan invaded Dacia to pillage their famously rich gold mines specifically so he could build a lasting monument to himself. The Roman Forum is that monument. Fifty thousand tourists a day visit the monument to Trajan's invasion of Dacia. Conquest ethos.

Louis XIV of France fought a series of four wars to raise enough money to build his palace at Versailles. At its peak, Versailles had so many fountains (1400, more or less) that they could never get enough water to keep them all flowing at once. In fact, Versailles' fountains and the palace's indoor plumbing collectively used more water in a day than was available for the entire city of Paris.

King Louie's engineer even built a 10-mile-long aqueduct to a nearby river, complete with a paddlewheel-driven pumping station that pumped the water to a height of 490 vertical feet above the river so it could flow over the hill that stood between the riverbank and Versailles. But that still wasn't enough water. So whenever the King was strolling the grounds, a groundskeeper was assigned the duty of running ahead of him to have the water turned on to whatever fountains Louie was approaching.

England's lust for conquest was so great that by the time of Queen Victoria, she was Empress over 450 million people -- one-fourth of the entire planet's population -- in more than 60 different countries. It was in that era that the phrase was coined, "the sun never sets on the British Empire." Because it didn't. Its empire was so vast that there was never a moment of the day when there wasn't a British territory somewhere where it was daylight. Queen Victoria's great-great granddaughter, Queen Elizabeth II, is the richest woman in the world. Conquest ethos.

Before WWII started in earnest, Hitler annexed Austria, the Sudetenland, Czechoslovakia and Poland. Because conquest is the fastest means and offers the best potential return on investment of all the "get-rich-quick" schemes. The land-grab didn't work out so well for him, but he gave it a good shot.

America didn't get rich off of conquest. There were some few lands seized through warfare from the middle to the late 1800s, but usually not for reasons of conquest. Most of those eventually were made autonomous or independent. And since the Spanish American War, through two World Wars, Korea and Vietnam, the only land we have demanded from the conquered was a place to bury our dead.

Americans created their wealth out of thin air through innovation, entrepreneurship and trade. Every last man of the rich asshole Founding Fathers also was an entrepreneur, and America needed every last one of them if they were going to light the economic bonfire that could turn a bunch of ragtag colonies into a wealthy nation.


George Washington was one of the richest men in America. THE richest, by some accounts. But he had to borrow money to pay his travel expenses for the trip to Washington for his own inauguration as President of the 13 United States.

Why was such a rich man so cash-poor? Because he saw the wisdom in keeping his money employed in the business of making still more money. He intentionally stayed financially leveraged because that was the most cost-conscious thing to do.

I've been to Hurst Castle and the Biltmore Estate. And Windsor Castle and Versailles. And the Taj Mahal (not a residence but its grandeur is still emblematic of an opulent lifestyle). Hell, I even spent a year working from an office in one of Saddam Hussein's marble palaces. So I've seen how real rich assholes live.

I've also been to Mount Vernon. And to Monticello. Those are not the homes of rich assholes. I've seen the homes of the real rich assholes, and Mount Vernon and Monticello don't even come close. Hell, George Washington was SO FUCKING CHEAP he couldn't turn loose of the money to build Mount Vernon from brick or stone. So it's built from wood, covered with plaster that they drew grid lines on to make it look like it was made from brick.

Washington and Jefferson and most of the rest who were truly rich didn't live in opulence because they were too strapped spending what they had earned to build a greater America.


Bill Gates is, if not THE richest, one of the three or four richest men on earth. He has a 66,000 square foot home in Seattle. He's also one of the biggest assholes who ever drew breath. After Microsoft grew to be huge, he would drive to their headquarters building on weekends and holidays and make note of which of which of his executive's cars weren't there.

Gates wanted to fire childhood friend and Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen because he didn't think Allen, who was fighting cancer at the time, was being productive enough.

They were childhood friends. The way Gates learned to write programming code (in high school) was that he and Allen went dumpster-diving outside buildings in Seattle that had mainframe computers, searching for computer printouts that might have been thrown away. Gates was so short that he needed a boost from Allen to get into the dumpsters. Later, it was Allen who convinced Gates to drop out of Harvard and start a software company with him, which they named Microsoft. Without Allen, Gates might never have learned to code. Might never have founded Microsoft.

But Gates wanted Allen fired because his cancer had made him sick.

Gates also was the single most influential individual in the creation of the world-wide PC industry. Thousands of people who Gates never even met became millionaires building, marketing or selling PCs. They didn't steal the money, and nobody got poorer because they got rich. It's a value-added industry, which they grew from thin air. People bought billions of dollars worth of PC products because they were willing to spend their discretionary funds on them.

Without the influence of Bill Gates, the evolution of the PC industry probably would have lagged behind years, maybe decades. It might never have grown into the juggernaut it is today. So I don't think the world so much minds absorbing one more asshole if it means that much prosperity coming along for the ride.

And in a capitalist economy, no one ever gets rich in isolation. Gates didn't build that 66,000 square foot house by his assholey lonesome.


Never before in the history of the world has a nation accrued so much power as America and abused it so little. So even if the Founding Fathers were rich assholes (and I will not concede that they were), then I think that can be forgiven in light of what their good works have wrought.

[Obs]

Honestly, Obs, I didn't want to go there because it opens up a whole 'nother can of worms but I am appalled that more Americans don't recognize an income tax for what it is: indentured servitude. The government claims ownership of the fruits of your labors for a substantial portion of the year. Something that would have had the Founding Fathers turning over in their graves because one of their core beliefs was that a man should be the sole owner of what he himself has created.

And an income tax is THE most regressive form of taxation possible because when times are hard, there is NOTHING you can do to reduce your indebtedness to the government that doesn't also negatively impact your gross income.

An income tax is immoral and I'm sure the Dead Old Rich White Guys would agree with me on that point.


Anybody who doesn't endeavor to increase their own wealth is either an idiot or a monk. Being rich is no sin and being jealous of the rich for no other reason than they're rich is a manifestation of self-loathing. It's also the fundamental and defining characteristic of all progressivist/socialist/communist [pick one] movements.

Without getting into the side issue of slavery, which is a holy war all to itself, the Founding Fathers made their wealth through entrepreneurship. Nobody got poorer as they got richer, they got richer because they succeeded in investing and risking their own talents and their own assets to create more wealth. They grew it, they didn't steal it.

In a speech he gave at Georgetown University in 2012 (it's on YouTube), even Bono (rich asshole rock star) admitted that America's greatest gift to the world was the idea of capitalism, because capitalism reduces poverty.

And I find it absurd to contend that they would forsake England for America just to become rich because the richest man in America lived less lavishly than any low-placed nobleman or aristocrat in England.

The best clothing and wines all came from Europe. Virtually all the tea and paper products came from Europe. In 1776 there were only two places on earth where they made fine porcelain china, Saxony (in what is now Germany) and China itself. And you can't possibly have a rich asshole's fancy dining room without fine china. Which meant rich assholes in America would have to pay for it to be shipped across the Atlantic ocean or they couldn't have it.

Riches effectively bought more tangible wealth in England than in the Colonies for the simple fact that England was part of Europe and America was a weeks-long sea voyage away. All the trappings of wealth came from Europe, so why the hell didn't they just move there rather than living in the backwater settlements that were Colonial America?

They stayed in America because the Founding Fathers knew they were building something besides wealth, they were building a new nation, one whose like the world had never seen before.

America was the first nation that ever embraced capitalism and entrepreneurship as one of its core beliefs, and the first nation that ever existed that grew rich largely without the use of conquest ethos.

Other cultures have as much as reviled the merchant and the shopkeeper. In the caste system of India's Hindu religion, the merchant is in the next-to-lowest category. Arab historian Ibn Khaldun wrote that looting is morally preferable to being a merchant or a tradesman, because looting is a "manly" pursuit. To loot you must first face the man in open combat and defeat him. Whereas all the merchant need do is lie in wait for his victim. Not in the least manly.

For an English aristocrat of the era, to have been involved in any form of trade or entrepreneurship was to disgrace your family name, which amounted to the entrenchment of an economic system where the only way you could get rich was to be born that way. It essentially was the same philosophy that underpinned their monarchy: if God had wanted you to be rich, you'd have been born that way.

The British system was so intent on holding down "the little man" that they even created a special denomination of currency -- the guinea -- that was reserved for aristocrats. And most fine goods could only be bought with guineas, and were not for sale for an equivalent value with pounds sterling. Which made these goods exclusive to the upper classes. Industrialists, entrepreneurs, inventors and merchants need not apply.

Lacking any ability to "grow" wealth internally (i.e., a "value-added" economy), the only way to gain wealth is to take it from someone who already has it. Conquest ethos. Every wealthy nation that ever existed got that way through conquest ethos. Colonization and exploitation.

All except one. The United States of America. America was created with an enthusiasm for entrepreneurship and the value-added economy. Because the rich asshole Founding Fathers recognized there is no other way to grow yourself rich than a value added economy.

And a rising tide lifts all boats. In a capitalism-driven free-market economy, no one ever gets rich in isolation. The rich always have financial coattails. And the richer they are, the longer their coattails.


Rome got rich through conquest. Expansion of the empire at the point of a gladius. The most of the Roman Forum, the ruins of which today are the very icon of Rome's greatness, were built by the Emperor Trajan. Trajan invaded Dacia to pillage their famously rich gold mines specifically so he could build a lasting monument to himself. The Roman Forum is that monument. Fifty thousand tourists a day visit the monument to Trajan's invasion of Dacia. Conquest ethos.

Louis XIV of France fought a series of four wars to raise enough money to build his palace at Versailles. At its peak, Versailles had so many fountains (1400, more or less) that they could never get enough water to keep them all flowing at once. In fact, Versailles' fountains and the palace's indoor plumbing collectively used more water in a day than was available for the entire city of Paris.

King Louie's engineer even built a 10-mile-long aqueduct to a nearby river, complete with a paddlewheel-driven pumping station that pumped the water to a height of 490 vertical feet above the river so it could flow over the hill that stood between the riverbank and Versailles. But that still wasn't enough water. So whenever the King was strolling the grounds, a groundskeeper was assigned the duty of running ahead of him to have the water turned on to whatever fountains Louie was approaching.

England's lust for conquest was so great that by the time of Queen Victoria, she was Empress over 450 million people -- one-fourth of the entire planet's population -- in more than 60 different countries. It was in that era that the phrase was coined, "the sun never sets on the British Empire." Because it didn't. Its empire was so vast that there was never a moment of the day when there wasn't a British territory somewhere where it was daylight. Queen Victoria's great-great granddaughter, Queen Elizabeth II, is the richest woman in the world. Conquest ethos.

Before WWII started in earnest, Hitler annexed Austria, the Sudetenland, Czechoslovakia and Poland. Because conquest is the fastest means and offers the best potential return on investment of all the "get-rich-quick" schemes. The land-grab didn't work out so well for him, but he gave it a good shot.

America didn't get rich off of conquest. There were some few lands seized through warfare from the middle to the late 1800s, but usually not for reasons of conquest. Most of those eventually were made autonomous or independent. And since the Spanish American War, through two World Wars, Korea and Vietnam, the only land we have demanded from the conquered was a place to bury our dead.

Americans created their wealth out of thin air through innovation, entrepreneurship and trade. Every last man of the rich asshole Founding Fathers also was an entrepreneur, and America needed every last one of them if they were going to light the economic bonfire that could turn a bunch of ragtag colonies into a wealthy nation.


George Washington was one of the richest men in America. THE richest, by some accounts. But he had to borrow money to pay his travel expenses for the trip to Washington for his own inauguration as President of the 13 United States.

Why was such a rich man so cash-poor? Because he saw the wisdom in keeping his money employed in the business of making still more money. He intentionally stayed financially leveraged because that was the most cost-conscious thing to do.

I've been to Hurst Castle and the Biltmore Estate. And Windsor Castle and Versailles. And the Taj Mahal (not a residence but its grandeur is still emblematic of an opulent lifestyle). Hell, I even spent a year working from an office in one of Saddam Hussein's marble palaces. So I've seen how real rich assholes live.

I've also been to Mount Vernon. And to Monticello. Those are not the homes of rich assholes. I've seen the homes of the real rich assholes, and Mount Vernon and Monticello don't even come close. Hell, George Washington was SO FUCKING CHEAP he couldn't turn loose of the money to build Mount Vernon from brick or stone. So it's built from wood, covered with plaster that they drew grid lines on to make it look like it was made from brick.

Washington and Jefferson and most of the rest who were truly rich didn't live in opulence because they were too strapped spending what they had earned to build a greater America.


Bill Gates is, if not THE richest, one of the three or four richest men on earth. He has a 66,000 square foot home in Seattle. He's also one of the biggest assholes who ever drew breath. Gates wanted to fire childhood friend and Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen because he didn't think Allen, who was fighting cancer at the time, was being productive enough.

They were childhood friends. The way Gates learned to write programming code (in high school) was that he and Allen went dumpster-diving outside buildings in Seattle that had mainframe computers, searching for computer printouts that might have been thrown away. Gates was so short that he needed a boost from Allen to get into the dumpsters. Later, it was Allen who convinced Gates to drop out of Harvard and start a software company with him, which they named Microsoft. Without Allen, Gates might never have learned to code. Might never have founded Microsoft.

But Gates wanted Allen fired because his cancer had made him sick.

Gates also was the single most influential individual in the creation of the world-wide PC industry. Thousands of people who Gates never even met became millionaires building, marketing or selling PCs. They didn't steal the money, and nobody got poorer because they got rich. It's a value-added industry, which they grew from thin air. People bought billions of dollars worth of PC products because they were willing to spend their discretionary funds on them.

Without the influence of Bill Gates, the evolution of the PC industry probably would have lagged behind years, maybe decades. It might never have grown into the juggernaut it is today. So I don't think the world so much minds absorbing one more asshole if it means that much prosperity coming along for the ride.

And in a capitalist economy, no one ever gets rich in isolation. Gates didn't build that 66,000 square foot house by his assholey lonesome.


Never before in the history of the world has a nation accrued so much power as America and abused it so little. So even if the Founding Fathers were rich assholes (and I will not concede that they were), then I think that can be forgiven in light of what their good works have wrought.

You are a deep thinker and very intelligent.

I have put hours into single posts and I feel like you have done the same. I hope you know it is not ignored or not appreciated.

I hope you understand I dont condemn the founders at all.
Rather, I think people see politicians as something they are not.
A man cannot arise to a position of true power without deceit.

Sooo many people think that this is the first generation to ponder creation/evolution,socialism/capitalism, anarchy/communism.

They think they have more depth of knowledge, but they either leave out true history or common sense.

Roosevelts are celebrated in this country and they literally set us straight as can be on the path to communism with social security.

They knew it.

In the south everyone sings along when they hear "song of the south" by Alabama. These people had the clearest sense of true freedom of any in the US but they literally sing along and chant to a socialist dictatorship as of 40 years ago.

Its beyond stupid and sickening.

We are not free.
We are born into slavery and indictrinated by gov school systems to believe 40% of our life and work should go to the gov. The more advanced the schooling gets, the more socialist it is.

People cry out about "marxist professors" etc well what about marxist parents that have zero clue they live in a 100% communist society.

This legislature, judicial, and legislative branch cannot be descrided as anything but communist.

Oh what we vote upon the two shiniest pieces of shit?

Wow I am soooo free! I have every fucking goddam motherfucking puddle of water in my yard taxed and controlled, but... 'merica!

I cannot display my lack of what idiot, moron, stupid fucks, call "patriotism" today.

The country we left has more economic freedom and less taxes with an actual socialized med care.


These fucking toilet seat wetting morons today wouldn't have a clue what to do with actual freedom because they are 6th generation hired bitches.

The hard fuckers that started this country were entrepreneurs! Any single one of any importance that was not a servant was self employed!

Now the employed, retard, socialist runs the show as we perpetually fade into european faggotry; because people were goddamn gullable enough to believe that someone on this earth has their best interest in mind!

Lmmfao!
Oh fuck yeah! The politicians care about us! They care about people! They care about freedom!

For fuck sake!

How can anyone be so goddamn gullable!?
How about that we have 300 million people that gullable!

Go trump! You just passed the most expansive firearms code since nixon... But go trump!

Give us a walll that the liberals can chastise and ignore next term of presidency!

KEEP THE RETARDS SPLIT INTO DEMS AND REPS!
THOSE DUMB SHITS PAY HALF THEIR LIFE TO THE GOVERNMENT AND SWEAR THEIR WAY IS THE ONLY "FREEEEEEEEE" WAY.

Fucking shoot me

[Obs]

lets all pay into a collective and give that collective abosolute power!

We don't need "laws". Bureaus and agencies have "codes".
Lets all pretend the "codes" dont send us to prison even thouvh we not only didnt vote on the code; we never voted on the creation of the agency/bureau.

We are screwed straight in the ass at every turn and we are beyond salvation. The gov knows every way to rob every individual right that threatens them.


There will be no uprising or civil war.
A bunch of hard talking people like me will be sent to prison, one by one, over many years.

We will be screwed in the ass until we speak with foreign accents again.

[Obs]

Why should trump or hillary care about you or freedom?

90% want socialism so how does it benefit them to give a shit about freedom?

They will follow popular vote and give the people what they want.

Stricter slavery!

I am a Christian with my foul mouth!
My "God" wants 10%!

The gov wants over 40%!

Half my life is fucked away

[Obs]

"You need about 10 xanax's Obs...."

No, I need ignorance like the 99%

[Obs]

Income tax
Sales tax
City tax
County tax
Excise tax
Licensing
Permits


What in the fuuuuuuck am I gon' do with all this freedom!?

Yipeeeeee!

[Obs]

Btw beetle,
You know what freedom is and that makes you my brother.

I am not being a dick to you at all.

I appreciate every post you make.
Some of them really get me thinking or even change my hardheaded mind.

[Obs]

I went to work one day....
I avoided the DOT, but they fined me for a light burning out and not wearing my seatbelt.

I had to take my truck to get it inspected to be licensed. I paid IFTA and heavy highway use. I paid for hazmat and 1 million required insurance.

I paid sales tax on my new truck.
I made some self employment money with it. I paid 21-35% income tax on that (yeah.... I fucked them as hard as I could).

I renewed my license and got my DOT physical which I failed because I am obese at 235 and 12% bf with blood pressure over 140/80. Luckily my nice doctor gave me a pass because he wanted the repeat business of my bad back.

I was headed home after all money spent and I missed the scales. They pulled me over and walked around my truck with 7 DOT officers and two of them litetally had a book in their hand trying to figure out all the different ways they could fine me.

Finally got home and checked the mail. I had a certified letter waiting at the post office so I drove there.

Well holy shit... I filed income tax bit the IRS found descrepancy with a dependant that didnt have my last name. Now they say I owe them 12, 000 for errors. Oh, but shit its accimulating interest monthly.

Ahhhh damn.

Wtf am i to do?

I hire a lawyer.


I GROSSED 120,000 THIS YEAR! MY TAKE HOME IS 30,000 AFTER WORKING TWENTY HOUR DAYS, 6 DAYS PER WEEK!

YES FUCK TRUMP, HILLARY, THOMAS JEFFERSON, GEORGE WASHINGTON, AND EVERYONE WHO FUCKED MY FIVE KIDS OUT OF A DECENT CHRISTMAS,

FUCKING FUCK THEM ALL!

[Obs]

who is this motherfer on my job site!!

Well holy fuck it is OSHA!

FUCKING PROTECTOR OF THE FREE WORKING MAN!

GOD BLESSS MERICA!

"Jimmy wasnt wearing a hard hat, that'lll be $10k."

Wulll..... What if I fire Jimmy?

"Then we will put you in federal prison."

Ah! Welll what if I fire him in the next two weeks because he does something else stupid such as endagering the lives of other workers?

"Fed pen for you"

Ok, I got it.


Meanwhile back at the ranch Jimmy is on facebook BITCHING AVOUT HOW HIS BOSS IS A DICK AND HIS 40 HR PER WEEK JOB IS "SOOO HARRRRD!"

[Obs]

Pussy is going to be my downfall one way or another.

[Proximal]

Beetle, that was one hell of a post & a pleasure to read.

I’m trying to grasp all of the subtopics of this thread. Socialism, Alpha vs. Beta males, feminized speaking patterns, Arnold & Stallone, wealth, taxes, (I threw in eugenics to see where it would go), uncaring politicians, etc. while I watch the New England “game” which is turning into a route and pissing me off, because I wanted to watch a game.

I’ve worked in Beverly Hills and have lived in Los Angeles for over half of my life. The Sunday’s paper feature real-estate & if your home ain’t 100 million out here, then you’re not all that special. 10 plus million for a home is typical & million dollar homes are getting to be the norm. Watching wealth “evolve” out here has been something, yet I don’t have a problem with it, because it is a form of evolution; it’s darwinistic in a way, because if you want to “survive” (that is a very subjective term, interpreted differently person to person), you must adapt. It’s very pure actually.

Regarding Darwin and eugenics, it would have been very interesting to see how far the US would have taken things if Hitler didn’t push the process so blatantly and quickly. We’re just doing it in a more subtle and PC way now.

It is a capitalist society, wealth is there for everyone (not immediately, it might take decades or even a second generation), but it’s there for the taking. Of course you can’t always get just the way that you want it, because this is where evolution has taken the process. Like I mentioned, we took Darwin’s survival of the fittest approach and ran with it in a Socio-economic direction.

I am not trying to pass judgement on others here, but to me at least we are not really “good” people (what-ever “good” means), thus our elected officials aren’t as well. We the people don’t “really” care, why should the politicians that we elected. I include myself in not considering myself “good or caring”. I look after my own and that is a VERY small circle. Small example, the amount of homeless out here is staggering, tents pitched on sidewalks, entire camps in the wooded, public areas. You and your kids don’t have food today, sorry and please don’t ask for money while I’m waiting for my coffee, because frankly I’m getting tired of looking at all of you asking for $ on almost every corner and in front of every businesss. So I’m going to pass judgment on a politician. Why should they care about me?

And I don’t really get the gripe about taxes. I’m in the upper bracket, yet I really don’t mind if some of my taxes bail out anyone else’s sorry asses. Would it be wonderful if I felt the tax dollars were spent more wisely? Do I hate that there are people taking advantage of the system? Of course. But, they help pay for a system that allows the accumulation of wealth IF YOU LEARN TO EVOLVE.

Regarding wealth and the all-mighty dollar. It’s like muscle. Once you get, you never want to lose it. Just like everyone doesn’t have the genetics and desire to be Mr. O, nor does everyone have the drive and dedication to be a multimillionaire entrepreneur. But, just like the guys here on the forum that refuse to give up the AAS and lose muscle, the “well off” will do whatever they can to keep it their $. Muscle feels good and is a bit of a “security blanket”, same with wealth. You don’t have to be opulent, but just knowing it’s there is all that’s needed.

Politics for the well off is about one thing, that being, the new administration better not fuck up the stock market and the economy. Really anything else you do, conservatives & liberals will still bitch and moan, but as long as our investments keep growing, whatever. Right or wrong, build a wall, fuck with China, piss off our “allies”, whatever, hell, invade a country, just keep the economy pointed in the right direction. Guns and gun laws, please. Very sad and tragic stuff, truly not making light of it. Vegas, the school shootings (occupational hazard for me), and we had that bar out here get all shot up with I think 12 people dying. My goodness, sugar, saturated fat, alcohol, tobacco and automobiles are the real killers & they ain’t going anywhere. I think the problem with guns is as a business they don’t bring in enough revenue for a lot of people so they are more expendable in that sense. And it seriously it is so PC to hate them, like, literally man. Like I totally mean it Obs, totally . . .

And where are you guys going with the slavery thing?

BTW, this post was not a condemnation of anything anyone else said. Beetle and Obs, your posts inspired me and it helped pass the time during this peace of crap game. I got a little long winded & farted out of my fingers instead of my ass.

I guess the bottom line is, just how would you two like this country to be organized & ran?