Patriot/Anti-patriot

[monster.]

Due to the fact that so many of you responded and my limited time, I may not be able to respond very quickly.

It is very typical that you would link 9/11 with Iraq somehow. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but the average ignorant American believes anything he hears. It is hilarious how Americans think that the War in Iraq has something to do with 9/11. In fact, the only thing it has to do with 9/11 is that the Americans have decided to take revenge by slaying innocents. This is the very definition of a "terrorist", taking rage out on innocents.

Having said that, there are many Americans who are not so ignorant (like myself and others) who actively protested the war on Iraq. My respects to such individuals.

Speaking from a muslim point of view, why would a group of terriosts declare war on the western civilization (Innocent people of NYC) for their religion? Whoever responsible, for flying those planes, and killing that number of people did so for their muslim religion.. I'm curious to what your views are of what happened on 9/11.. Like i said this is off topic, but that seems to be closer to a genocide then the war in Iraq.. Is this just a fluke..

MedicalStudent.. You may have missed my entire point, I did not say anything about the war in Iraq, having anything to do with the attacks on 9/11.. I compared the two because you said the war in iraq is nothing but the killing of innocent people (which is an ignorant statement to say the least), The events that took place on 9/11 was a mass murder thousands of innocent people died, in the name of your muslim religion - at least thats who were flying the planes, muslim extremists.. Please put your thinking cap on, and by all means answer the question in bold.. You make me giggle by the way.. My advice to you is become a singer, or a talkshow host.. Quit wasting parents money for tuition, and your your time in med school..

My 2 cents

[monster.]

<<shaking head>> another fuking page!!!!!!!

[MedicalStudent]

I have to correct you MedicalStudent. Cluster bombs are not WMD. As stated in the Geneva Conventions WMD are Chemical, Biological, Radiological and/or Nuclear. While cluster bombs may frag some innocents the blast radius is about the size of a football field, depending upon the openning envelope. FAR from being a Weapon Of MASS Destruction. And we are barred from using WMD unless they are used against us.

First off, America had nuclear tipped missiles and bunker-busters in its war against Iraq. That fits the description you gave.
Secondly, are you claiming that America has never used WMDs before? Please answer this question.
Thirdly, you may be right from a semantics point of view that cluster bombs are not WMDs. But we all know what cluster bombs do and what they are used for. A football field? Do you know how big a football field is? Cluster bombs are bombs that explode into fragments and are used to inflict the MAXIMUM number of civilian casualties. They have no use in conventional warfare.

War is what it is and if one bomb happens to be dropped in a populated area, it was for good reason. People would like everything to be perfect, but war is controlled chaos, and is anything but.

Yeah, I'm sure you get happy when you go bomb people even though the war has been deemed illegal, the UN is against it, and the Coalition broke international law. There's a term for that: it's called state terrorism.

Answer one last question and you will categorically lose this "debate": Which country on the face of this earth possesses the most WMDs, nukes, and any other banned weaponry? I'll give you a hint. It starts with an "U" and ends in a "A" and the middle letter is "S".

Good luck. I'm done with you.

[monster.]

You never answered my question.. You skipped me

[Phillyboy1]

I promise to walk away from this Forum if you are correct in saying that Saudi Arabia and Yemen practise slavery.

I'll walk away. Promise.



A US military man himself...says there is slavery in Saudi and Yemen. That's HILARIOUS man.

ok then whats your take on how women are treated in them countries or other countries where islamic law in used as the law of the land? also what is your take on women? if your so islamic do you feel they should be able to vote, read, or anything else but be a slave to their husband?

[USfighterFC]

First off, America had nuclear tipped missiles and bunker-busters in its war against Iraq. That fits the description you gave.
Secondly, are you claiming that America has never used WMDs before? Please answer this question.
Thirdly, you may be right from a semantics point of view that cluster bombs are not WMDs. But we all know what cluster bombs do and what they are used for. A football field? Do you know how big a football field is? Cluster bombs are bombs that explode into fragments and are used to inflict the MAXIMUM number of civilian casualties. They have no use in conventional warfare.


Yeah, I'm sure you get happy when you go bomb people even though the war has been deemed illegal, the UN is against it, and the Coalition broke international law. There's a term for that: it's called state terrorism.

Good luck. I'm done with you.

Nuclear tipped missiles????..............oh now I know your just full of sh*t....yes we used bunker busters...........not a weapon of mass destruction though...just a big ass bomb. And actually cluster bombs are used for attacking convoys and closely quartered troops so your full of sh*t once again. Just stop lying already man that whole post was complete garbage and you know this. You are the most narrow minded idiot i have ever encountered and stop with your bullsh*t statements you claim to be factual but sound more like some anti-american freak.

[MedicalStudent]

This is a response to both JCStomper and Monster:

Because you have lost this little "war of wits" , you have resorted to childish ad-hoc attacks, discussing topics that are totally un-related to the conversation at hand. This is indicative of your idiocy.

And for the record, I think I've made it clear that I don't believe in wanton death and destruction that results in the death of civilians. That's why I am against the war in Iraq.

And to Monster--your response is just childish. Where in the heck did this stuff come from? Except perhaps your hatred for Islam? So tell me, dear sir...Is this why you supported bombing Iraq? Because you hate Islam and Muslims? Funny, because I thought it was to "free" them. Hmmmmmmmm........hypocrisy, anyone?

If you want to create a thread on my religious beliefs, go ahead -- but I suggest you stick to the matter at hand for now...that is, if you have the brains to do so. (For the record, your opinion on Islam is biased, ignorant, and un-founded...but I won't waste space on this thread to derail your stupidity on this matter.)


EDIT: To UsFighter or whatever your name is...the US possessed nuclear tipped missiles...don't believe me? Hmmmmmmm........looks like someone needs to get some learn on.

[USfighterFC]

http://africanhistory.about.com/libr.........outlawed in 1962!!! Much better than 1860 dont you think? Get the hell of the board.

[monster.]

And to Monster--your response is just childish. Where in the heck did this stuff come from? Except perhaps your hatred for Islam? So tell me, dear sir...Is this why you supported bombing Iraq? Because you hate Islam and Muslims? Funny, because I thought it was to "free" them. Hmmmmmmmm........hypocrisy, anyone?

I must be ah, asking too much from you? Let me rephrase this so it is 'cut and dry'

Why would muslims want to fly big planes into buildings and kill thousands of people, in the name of your muslim religion?

I'm not talking about bombs over Iraq now, I curious about your thoughts.. You can call me any name you want to sweetheart.. Think of a good answer.. Until then consider yourself owned..

[USfighterFC]

This is a response to both JCStomper and Monster:

Because you have lost this little "war of wits" , you have resorted to childish ad-hoc attacks, discussing topics that are totally un-related to the conversation at hand. This is indicative of your idiocy.

And for the record, I think I've made it clear that I don't believe in wanton death and destruction that results in the death of civilians. That's why I am against the war in Iraq.

And to Monster--your response is just childish. Where in the heck did this stuff come from? Except perhaps your hatred for Islam? So tell me, dear sir...Is this why you supported bombing Iraq? Because you hate Islam and Muslims? Funny, because I thought it was to "free" them. Hmmmmmmmm........hypocrisy, anyone?

If you want to create a thread on my religious beliefs, go ahead -- but I suggest you stick to the matter at hand for now...that is, if you have the brains to do so. (For the record, your opinion on Islam is biased, ignorant, and un-founded...but I won't waste space on this thread to derail your stupidity on this matter.)


EDIT: To UsFighter or whatever your name is...the US possessed nuclear tipped missiles...don't believe me? Hmmmmmmm........looks like someone needs to get some learn on.

Yeah where is your source for this???? Once again you want me to rely on your garbage word. What's your souce AmericaDie.com?

[MedicalStudent]

Going to respond to the idiotic posts in a second...first, to post this article:

US war crimes include biological warfare against Iraq
by Steve Gowans


In Iraq, the United States is knowingly violating Article 54 of the Geneva Convention which prohibits any country from undermining "objects indispensable to the survival of (another country's) civilian population, "including drinking water installations and supplies. The US enforced sanctions program have contributed to more deaths during the post Cold War era than all the weapons of mass destruction throughout history, including deaths at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Declassified documents point to US war crimes in Iraq
by Stephen Gowans

The United States is knowingly violating Article 54 of the Geneva Convention which prohibits any country from undermining "objects indispensable to the survival of (another country's) civilian population," including drinking water installations and supplies, says Thomas Nagy, a business professor at George Washington University.

Writing in the September 2001 issue of The Progressive, Nagy cites recently declassified documents that show the United States was aware of the civilian health consequences of destroying Iraq's drinking water and sanitation systems in the Gulf War, and knew that sanctions would prevent the Iraqi government from repairing the degraded facilities.

During the Gulf War, coalition forces bombed Iraq's eight multi-purpose dams, destroying flood control systems, irrigation, municipal and industrial water storage, and hydroelectric power. Major pumping stations were targeted, and municipal water and sewage facilities were destroyed.

Article 54 of the Geneva Convention prohibits attacks on "drinking water installations and supplies and irrigation works."

Nagy says that not only did the United States deliberately destroy drinking water and sanitation facilities, it knew sanctions would prevent Iraq from rebuilding, and that epidemics would ensue.

One document, written soon after the bombing, warned that sanctions would prevent Iraq from importing "water treatment replacement parts and some essential chemicals" leading to "increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease."

Another document lists the most likely diseases: "diarrheal diseases (particularly children); acute respiratory illnesses (colds and influenza); typhoid; hepatitis A (particularly children); measles, diphtheria, and pertussis (particularly children); meningitis, including meningococcal (particularly children); cholera (possible, but less likely.)"

Then U.S. Navy Secretary John Lehman estimated that 200,000 Iraqis died in the Gulf War, but many more have died since. UNICEF estimates that well over a million Iraqis have died as a result of the U.S-led sanctions regime, in place for the last decade. Some 500,000 children have died, and an estimated 4,000 die from various preventable, sanctions-related diseases, every month, says the U.N. agency.

Despite the massive human toll, the United States continues to support the sanctions regime, arguing that sanctions won't be lifted until U.N. inspectors are free to return to Iraq to verify that the country has rid itself of weapons of mass destruction.

American Scott Ritter, a former U.N. arms inspector, claims that Iraq is effectively disarmed, and has been for some time.

And deaths from sanctions exceed those from weapons of mass destruction. Political scientists John and Karl Mueller say that sanctions have "contributed to more deaths during the post Cold War era than all the weapons of mass destruction throughout history," including deaths at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

At one point, former U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright said that despite the civilian deaths the sanctions were "worth it."

Meanwhile, Israel, a U.S. ally in the region, is widely believed to have an arsenal of 200 nuclear weapons. While in violation of countless U.N. Resolutions ordering its withdrawal from the Occupied Territories, Israel faces no sanctions and no order to disarm. Amnesty International, which has warned that Israel's crackdown on the latest Palestinian uprising, or Intifada, borders on war crimes, recently condemned Tel Aviv for its "utter disregard for human life in the Occupied Territories" and for its violations of international law. And yet even calls for intervention as mild as placing international observers in the Occupied Territories have been rebuffed.

The Gulf War erupted after Iraq invaded neighboring Kuwait. After the war, the United Nations imposed sanctions, ordering Iraq to disarm. Iraq's violation of international law in invading its neighbor was cited for the harsh treatment. But critics of the policy say that punishment for violations of international law are being meted out unevenly and hypocritically. Israel's innumerable transgressions go unpunished, while governments that have fallen out with Washington, often over investment or debt repayment issues, are treated severely.

Moreover, say critics, the United States itself has a long track record of violating international law. Washington's undermining of Iraq's water treatment and sanitation facilities in violation of the Geneva Convention is just one of many recent transgressions, including the bombing of Yugoslavia, Sudan, Afghanistan, and the continued bombing of Iraq.

U.S.-led NATO forces also targeted civilian infrastructure in Yugoslavia. At one point, U.S. Air Force General Michael Short explained that NATO's bombing campaign was aimed at causing misery in the civilian population. "If you wake up in the morning," said Short, "and you have no power to your house and no gas to your stove and the bridge you take to work is down and will be lying in the Danube for the next 20 years, I think you begin to ask, 'Hey, Slobo, what's this all about? How much more of this do we have to withstand?'"

NATO forces used depleted uranium munitions in Yugoslavia, as did coalition forces in Iraq. Depleted uranium may be toxic, and may be responsible for an epidemic of cancers and birth defects that have arisen in Iraq over the last decade. Some have charged that Gulf War syndrome, a cluster of mysterious and debilitating illnesses suffered by U.S. and allied soldiers, is related to depleted uranium. Others point to the contamination of soil, water and air by carcinogenic effluent from destroyed industrial facilities and chemical plants as being responsible.

Nagy says that what is most disturbing about the documents is that they reveal a U.S. government concerned more with the potential negative publicity of the deaths, than with the deaths themselves. Dealing with the public relations downside of massive killing is a common theme in U.S. foreign policy. During the Gulf War a bomb that hit a marketplace and killed civilians led CBS News correspondent Dan Rather to remark: "We can be sure that Saddam Hussein will make propaganda of these casualties." Frequent reference is made in the documents Nagy has uncovered to the potential for Iraq to use epidemics for propaganda purposes.

When Nagy sent the documents to the media last fall, only two reporters wrote lengthy articles. One was Felicity Arbuthnot, who wrote in Scotland's The Sunday Herald that the "US-led allied forces deliberately destroyed Iraq's water supply during the Gulf War – flagrantly breaking the Geneva Convention and causing thousand of civilian deaths." Despite the seriousness of the allegations, and their being backed up by official documents, the story quickly fizzled.

Mr. Steve Gowans is a writer and political activist who lives in Ottawa, Canada.

[Phillyboy1]

This is a response to both JCStomper and Monster:

Because you have lost this little "war of wits" , you have resorted to childish ad-hoc attacks, discussing topics that are totally un-related to the conversation at hand. This is indicative of your idiocy.

sorry i didnt start a war of wits, i asked a simple question what is your take on women and how they should be treated, i asked nothing else but that one question. i didnt ask about iraq, or killing, or war. i asked a simple question, what is your take on women and how do you think they should be treated? sorry bud but ive made about 3 posts in all of these 4 pages. i havent lost anything. if you want me to start just ask, im your huckleberry!

[USfighterFC]

Yeah its called war MedicalStudent....people do die I'm sorry to say. We did kinda do that to the nazis as well but hey they were white so who gives a sh*t.

[MedicalStudent]

http://africanhistory.about.com/libr.........outlawed in 1962!!! Much better than 1860 dont you think? Get the hell of the board.

You must have comprehension skills. You stated in your post that Saudi and Yemen had slavery at the present time, at which I gave one big hearty laugh at.

Furthermore, I don't even know where to read on this site--you just gave me a random link.

And lastly, it doesn't matter. Because it's not relevant. What one country does--it in no way excuses other countries from similar crimes. Speaking of which, I don't much like Saudi Arabia and Yemen myself because they are not Islamist countries. They have brutal leaders who have historically been supported by the CIA in ensuring that no popular movements emerge.

[USfighterFC]

Oh and about the depleted uranium thing you got going on.......who saved the Muslim's asses from the serbs who basically wanted to commit genocide on the kosovars? Yeah and seeing how there was almost absolutely no ground fighting by our forces in Bosnia I doubt this will turn into a human rights catastrophe

[MedicalStudent]

sorry i didnt start a war of wits, i asked a simple question what is your take on women and how they should be treated, i asked nothing else but that one question. i didnt ask about iraq, or killing, or war. i asked a simple question, what is your take on women and how do you think they should be treated.

OK, this post has turned into sheer stupidity. Seriously, there should be a stupid-o-meter that just goes off when the level of stupidity rises too high.

I have a wife. According to my beliefs, women are to be treated with kindness and compassion. I am against the manner in which many of you on this forum treat women, including the many avatars that have sexually explicit and lewd images on them. I reject sexual exploitation of women. I believe that men should protect women, provide for them, and that the best men are those who are best to their wives.

OK, enough of that. Back on topic, please. If you want to talk about my religious beliefs, create another thread.

[USfighterFC]

You must have comprehension skills. You stated in your post that Saudi and Yemen had slavery at the present time, at which I gave one big hearty laugh at.

Furthermore, I don't even know where to read on this site--you just gave me a random link.

And lastly, it doesn't matter. Because it's not relevant. What one country does--it in no way excuses other countries from similar crimes. Speaking of which, I don't much like Saudi Arabia and Yemen myself because they are not Islamist countries. They have brutal leaders who have historically been supported by the CIA in ensuring that no popular movements emerge.

Uh huh......somehow want to turn it back on america again. I hate how you live in this country but despise it so much. Move to Canada or something.....you can do a lot better up there.

[Phillyboy1]

you said this correct?

I promise to walk away from this Forum if you are correct in saying that Saudi Arabia and Yemen practise slavery.
I'll walk away. Promise.
A US military man himself...says there is slavery in Saudi and Yemen. That's HILARIOUS man.

you dont think the way women in these two countries and any other using islamic law is almost slavery? cant vote, etc.?

[USfighterFC]

OK, this post has turned into sheer stupidity. Seriously, there should be a stupid-o-meter that just goes off when the level of stupidity rises too high.

I have a wife. According to my beliefs, women are to be treated with kindness and compassion. I am against the manner in which many of you on this forum treat women, including the many avatars that have sexually explicit and lewd images on them. I reject sexual exploitation of women. I believe that men should protect women, provide for them, and that the best men are those who are best to their wives.

OK, enough of that. Back on topic, please. If you want to talk about my religious beliefs, create another thread.

What about repressing the sh*t outta them like your bros in the Middle East......such a vague bullsh*t answer.

[Phillyboy1]

you islamic men sure do know how to treat your women huh?
"I'm not sure if this has been covered by the American media however it's had wide coverage here in Europe. Recently a 22 year old Nigerian woman was sentenced to death for having a baby outside of wedlock. The woman was tried under islamic law. Her sentence has been commuted for 2 years to allow her more time to spend with the child, then she'll be taken away, buried to her neck in sand and stoned to death in a public execution."
http://www.mertonai.org/amina/OpenLetter.htm

whats your take on how this woman is being treated under your great islamic laws?

[MedicalStudent]

I shall break down your argument in two parts.

1.

Oh and about the depleted uranium thing you got going on.......

And somehow you link this to the following....

2.

who saved the Muslim's asses from the serbs who basically wanted to commit genocide on the kosovars?

How in the hell are those two events related? See, you are turning this into what you really believe it to be. You think it's war against Islam and Muslims. You have an infernal hatred for Muslims and Arabs, and this is why you went to Iraq. To blow things up and play Rambo.

If not, then how can you link these two events together?

(By the way, Kosovo and Bosnia are two separate topics...and the USA is not exactly a saint there, but that's a whole other subject.)

Stick on topic, people. Seriously. Your hatred for Muslims is showing. I don't mind you hating Muslims. But the fact is...thats the REAL reason you go to Iraq--to kill Muslims.

Admit it.

[Doc M]

I'mstill waiting for the answers to the polite and inquisitive questions I had for you on page 3 of this thread..

Doc M

[MedicalStudent]

you islamic men sure do know how to treat your women huh?
[B]"I'm not sure if this has been covered by the American media however it's had wide coverage here in Europe. Recently a 22 year old Nigerian woman was sentenced to death for having a baby outside of wedlock. The woman was tried under islamic law. Her sentence has been commuted for 2 years to allow her more time to spend with the child, then she'll be taken away, buried to her neck in sand and stoned to death in a public execution.

Somehow you forgot to mention how a Nigerian man was also executed for the same crime.

In Islam, you get capital punishment if you commit adultery. I don't see anything wrong with that. I think cheaters deserve to die.

Anyways, once again--please go back to the topic. Read my post 141

[Phillyboy1]

Somehow you forgot to mention how a Nigerian man was also executed for the same crime.

In Islam, you get capital punishment if you commit adultery. I don't see anything wrong with that. I think cheaters deserve to die.

Anyways, once again--please go back to the topic. Read my post 141

you dont think thats barbaric?

[MedicalStudent]

What about repressing the sh*t outta them like your bros in the Middle East......such a vague bullsh*t answer.

Once again, you show your hatred for Muslims and Arabs and "my bros in the Middle East".

You went to go blow them up because you hate them.

Stop fronting then and saying you do it for justice or to free them.

Admit why you went.

Anyways, the USA is being charged with war crimes in the International Tribunal but of course it will threaten and bully any country that proceeds to press charges.

[Phillyboy1]

stop talking and answer the 20 other questions you talked around like our crappy president bush would have done. there has been about 20 questions you just skipped over placed by other posters. why dont you answer them all?

[MedicalStudent]

you dont think thats barbaric?

No, I find cheating on your spouse to be barbaric.

[MedicalStudent]

stop talking and answer the 20 other questions you talked around like our crappy president bush would have done. there has been about 20 questions you just skipped over placed by other posters. why dont you answer them all?

The reason I don't answer them all is because too many of you are responding and there is only one of me. I am supposed to be in class right now discussing Accute Inflammation but instead I've been swarmed by these inane posts.

I can't possibly answer all of them because every time I respond, I notice that 3 others posted right before me...even before I press "submit reply".

[monster.]

HAHA.. MedStudent. You're a joke, by all means i hope you are a thinking of a good answer, to my question since i didn't receive a thing from you yet.. Don't be scared sweetheart.. haha.. As far as your article, thanks for the speedy recap.. I see where you are going.. You are very predictable.. Do you want a cookie?..haha.. I'm sure you're against any nation capable of overthrowing another country? In your mind this may seem 'against your religion' I'm sure you have repeated yourself quite a bit, So you can save another explanation.. It's difficult to describe war to someone who has never experienced it.. You're only reference is articles, and small talk.. I pray you never ever go to war, you will not last.. (i'm sure you are aware) Please, do not talk down on our soilders.. If you are so against the United States Government take off.. whats stopping you?

I won't hold my breath waiting for you to answer why, Muslim cowards fly jetliners into buildings for their religion.. You're a nobody, good luck with your steroids , It's helps to have heart when you're weightlifting, its something to think about since you have none..

[Phillyboy1]

No, I find cheating on your spouse to be barbaric.

ok i find no need to continue any more posts on this thread. you sir are completly closed minded and obviously wish you lived in the dark ages, sh-t why dont you just cruise your non dancing self over to the M.E. and hang out with mr osama himself? you two seem to have so much in common!

[MedicalStudent]

HAHA.. MedStudent. You're a joke, by all means i hope you are a thinking of a good answer, to my question since i didn't receive a thing from you yet.. Don't be scared sweetheart.. haha.. As far as your article, thanks for the speedy recap.. I see where you are going.. You are very predictable.. Do you want a cookie?..haha.. I'm sure you're against any nation capable of overthrowing another country? In your mind this may seem 'against your religion' I'm sure you have repeated yourself quite a bit, So you can save another explanation.. It's difficult to describe war to someone who has never experienced it.. You're only reference is articles, and small talk.. I pray you never ever go to war, you will not last.. (i'm sure you are aware) Please, do not talk down on our soilders.. If you are so against the United States Government take off.. whats stopping you?

I won't hold my breath waiting for you to answer why, Muslim cowards fly jetliners into buildings for their religion.. You're a nobody sweetheart, good luck with your steroids, It's helps to have heart when you're weightlifting, its something to think about since you have none..

What was your question? Re-post your question. I honestly don't know what your question was.

Was it about 911? If it's about 911, then I have already responded. It is FORBIDDEN in Islam to take the life of a civilian. I don't know what more else you want.

[MedicalStudent]

ok i find no need to continue any more posts on this thread. you sir are completly closed minded and obviously wish you lived in the dark ages, sh-t why dont you just cruise your non dancing self over to the M.E. and hang out with mr osama himself? you two seem to have so much in common!

Is that supposed to be an intelligent response?

[Phillyboy1]

You're a nobody, good luck with your steroids,

speaking of which, wouldnt allah be pretty pissed that your posioning your body? i mean if your cant have tattoos, then why should you be able to use gear? i honestly feel your part of a terrorist cell

[Phillyboy1]

Is that supposed to be an intelligent response?

not at all i figured id keep it right on your level

[MedicalStudent]

speaking of which, wouldnt allah be pretty pissed that your posioning your body? i mean if your can have tattoos. then why should you be able to use gear? i honestly feel your part of a terrorist cell

Should I even bother with your idiotic responses?

I have a suggestion for you. If you choose to be an idiot, at least be a witty one. Respond with a bit of wit and it really will make your posts a little interesting to read. Right now, they are drab and just full of hick "go back to Moslem" mentality.

[Doc M]

You are supposed to be in class studying Accute Inflammation at this hour?? What Medical School are you supposedly attending?? Is it home schooling?? And you are here debating irrelevant issues to this board and not attending class, then I reiterate what I said from my first post and that is i do not want you as a future colleague having the power to treat patients when you would rather skip class to hang out on a discussion board..Disturbing to say the least!

Doc M

[Symian]

1)Why do you equate patriotism with war? Were those who were against the war in Vietnam somehow un-patriotic?

2)The vast majority in the military are virtual high-school drop-outs. People who couldn't go anywhere else and the military was the last place that would accept them. These people got rejected from universities, didn't take their SATs, and simply failed in life.

3)The fact remains. Most in the military are complete ignorant fools when it comes to geography, history, current events, and anything that doesn't involve sex and drinking.

4)And what about the treatment of the USA to its own soldiers when it routinely uses them as guinea pigs. I'm sure you have heard of good ole Agent Orange or testing nuclear radiation on soldiers as the government did during the Cold War?

5)You somehow equate pro-war as patriotism, when I am here telling you that it is the very military heads that are responsible for some very un-patriotic behavior (such as testing weaponry on its own soldiers).

6)America had nuclear tipped missiles and bunker-busters in its war against Iraq.

7)Secondly, are you claiming that America has never used WMDs before? Please answer this question.

8)Cluster bombs are bombs that explode into fragments and are used to inflict the MAXIMUM number of civilian casualties. They have no use in conventional warfare.

9)Yeah, I'm sure you get happy when you go bomb people even though the war has been deemed illegal, the UN is against it, and the Coalition broke international law. There's a term for that: it's called state terrorism.

10)Answer one last question and you will categorically lose this "debate": Which country on the face of this earth possesses the most WMDs, nukes, and any other banned weaponry?
Good luck. I'm done with you.

1)Where as protesting the war in Vietnam is not un-patriotic, most of the demonstrators were. The soldiers had no choice to fight, and came back to people call them baby killers. Please don't get me started on Jane Fonda, and her betrayal of the POWs.

2 and 3)Please post statements that have backing, and aren't based on your biased view. It is mandatory to have a diploma to join, and even then only 1-2% are GEDs. While I agree with Tock that the demographic is what it is, what you are saying is your opinion and NOT fact. If so, show me the data.

4 and 5)Agent Orange was not tested on soldiers. It was used to clear the foliage in Vietnam, and similar to the depleted uranium, had unknown undesireable effects. As far as nuclear radiation, what do you have to except rumors and gossip? Show me some facts.

6)I agree with the bunker buster, but a bunker buster is nothing but a very large conventional bomb with delayed fusing. Please show me a reference to your comment about the missles. Otherwise I'll dismiss it as hearsay.

7)Are you referring to Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Other than those two I don't know what you're referring to. Again show me some references to back your statements, as I do. A good explaination of LOAC

8)Please research your military knowledge better if you are going to make claims like this one. We employ many different "cluster bombs", and all have a different purpose and deployment. They have many uses, but I wont explain, as I'm sure you don't care. FYI: "Conventional Warfare" is warfare with weapons that aren't nuclear.

9)Obviously this is something you feel strongly about, and I respect that, as I feel strongly about the military. But twisting my words doesn't help to argue your side any better. Unless you've been in the military, everything you know is second hand.

10)I don't know exact figures, but I'm sure the US has the most. What is your point? And also, I'm trying to keep this civil. Let's keep this to a debate over ideas, and not flaming of opinions. I can do that, can you?

Sorry for it being so long, but I had a lot of time.

Sym

[Phillyboy1]

Should I even bother with your idiotic responses?

I have a suggestion for you. If you choose to be an idiot, at least be a witty one. Respond with a bit of wit and it really will make your posts a little interesting to read. Right now, they are drab and just full of hick "go back to Moslem" mentality.

im full of drab cause your boring me so im just pouring it back into the thread. sorry

[monster.]

MedStudent.. You SCURRRRED??? How come theres no answer, are you holding back? Please let me get a chuckle out of this.. I won't repeat myself again, I wouldn't be surprised if your professors constantly repeat themselves to you.. That is not a good thing..

See i'm confused, if "the killing of innocent civilians is FORBIDDEN in the Muslim religion" Then why did your muslim brothern (haha) claim to do this for their religion??

What are you waiting for, It must be too much to ask..

[JohnDoe1234]

I have listened to this long enough. I will try to keep this short. Medstudent you keep going on and on about American being this nation with a history murder and mayhem. Well throughout history any nation or great empire, has stayed in power by employing these tactics to one degree or another. The Roman empire which is considered by many to be one the greatest civilizations in the history of mankind, had organized murder down to a science. The Roman legions, which never numbered more than 400,000 strong, ruled an empire of millions that streched for thousands of miles in all directions. These legions killed their enemies by the millions during their 1,000 year rein. What Rome realized is that in order to stay powerful, they had to protect THEIR interests, not other nations interests their own. The point you keep trying to make is that the U.S. kills the innocent for no reason. There is a reason, to further U.S. interest. You also say that most of us are ignorant, and believe that we go to war for peace, well I don't really believe all that, I just don't care. I am American, American interests are therefore my interests. If Iraqi's or anyother group of people have to die or get killed for America to stay on top, then so be it, I could really care less. Because you know what, if these nations had the power to do so they would kill us all in a flash. Thats the real world my friend, that is the way things have been since the dawn of man. The U.S. did not invent the way the world works, we're just very good at playing the game. And inspite of the dark side of our history and our nature, there has never been a more free and democratic society in the history of the human race. You speak of how the U.S. is oppressive, but in many other nations on earth, if you spoke out against the government the way you are now, you would not just be chided by your fellow citizens. In most countries, what would happen would be something like this; a group of men would come to your home in night while you slept, kick in your front door, drag you out of bed, and then execute you and your entire family. Now the U.S. may not be even handed with other nations, but at least we protect our own. Not too many other countries in the world can boast that fact.