Inspired by Oral Only Cycle Thread - your advice please!

[davidinvienna]

Hi guys!

well as the headline states - one of the current posts has triggered some Q's which i m looking to get sum advice from u.

since i am a newb as well and am trying to get as much info out of here to put together my 1st cycle.
planned cycle start is Jan with a main aim of putting on some lean mass, cutting up and increasing explosive strength (mma, running)

1. what are the advantages/disadvantages to an oral only cyle being the very 1st time AAS use?

read up on the Tbol/Var stack - sounds like sum great components to start me off... especially for my sport - mma

so here's my 2nd Q: since Var apparently has a mildly surpressing effect on HPTA is it advisable to run Proviron throughout the whole cycle as well as PCT and add HCG for PCT or will Proviron alone do the job??

Thanks for your input

[Hellmaskbanned]

Proviron is not needed with tbol/var, because it should not aromatize. You will need a pct afterwards to restore your natural test levels.

Yes it should help you in your sport.

50mgs/day for both for 6-8 weeks. They are both liver toxic but not as bad as some other orals.

No alchohol, drink lots of water, take liver aid like milkthristle daily.

[davidinvienna]

hey thx Hellmask!

since aromatising wont be a prob with these two as u have stated i assume that HCG for PCT will be sufficient? dont wana go for clomid cos of the vision issues .... am open for other suggestions mate

[Hellmaskbanned]

I would run an AI(aromasin ) and Serm(nolva)

HCG is not needed. Your balls shouldnt turn into raisens ont hat cycle.

[perfectbeast2001]

Oh god the oral only gang is here again.

[davidinvienna]

so how does that sound?

week 1-8 Tbol/Var - 50mgs each/day
week 1-12 Nolva - 20mgs/day
week 8-12 Aromasin 25mgs/day

[Hellmaskbanned]

Oh god the oral only gang is here again.

You know you wanna join.

[G-1000]

Oh god the oral only gang is here again.

[Hellmaskbanned]

so how does that sound?

week 1-8 Tbol/Var - 50mgs each/day
week 1-12 Nolva - 20mgs/day
week 8-12 Aromasin 25mgs/day

No need for nolva while on, run it only with your aromasin during pct.

[davidinvienna]

no worries mate ... thx once again!

oral only gang?! ... damn, i gotta wake the missus!

[perfectbeast2001]

no worries mate ... thx once again!

oral only gang?! ... damn, i gotta wake the missus!

LOL my missis would punch me if i woke her up for that!!

[davidinvienna]

hahaha ... got the wrong one then beast ;-)

[davidinvienna]

PCT for 4weeks with Nolva/Aromasin starting after end of Tbol/Var intake?

[T3/T4 GSR]

i think you would see better results from higher doses of var. Atleast 60mg would be my suggestion.

[Astrocreep_23]

T-bol shut me down pretty hard last time, sex drive was up for the 1st few weeks but crashed week 4-6 so without test in there you better be good with your mouth if you want the missus to stick around ; ) Also i found using nolva, a-dex and Anabolic Xtremes 'PCT' got my boys back to full size in about 3 weeks. I know ppl dont place much faith in OTC products, but it seemed to work pretty well for me... Just my 2 cents

[x_moe]

i never tried T-bol, does it give gains just as much as Dbols usually ? or far less

[Manpretty]

yo im at the end of the second week of tbol and winny at 50mg of each ed right now ill let you know how it goes.....im on for same reason, explosive power, for sprinting tho

[davidinvienna]

@Astrocreep - hey mate, so u reckon even on those mild components i need test as a base in order not to crash? my problem is that i ll b travelling in n out of EU quite a bit soon so injectables are a nogo up till round spring time ... is there any oral compound that can b used as a "test base"??

@man - good stuff mate ... please keep me posted on how u go, sides, etc... thx bud

[perfectbeast2001]

@Astrocreep - hey mate, so u reckon even on those mild components i need test as a base in order not to crash? my problem is that i ll b travelling in n out of EU quite a bit soon so injectables are a nogo up till round spring time ... is there any oral compound that can b used as a "test base"??

@man - good stuff mate ... please keep me posted on how u go, sides, etc... thx bud

yes mate, andriol , its a bit of a pain as you have to dose it often due to short half life but its your only oral test option.

[davidinvienna]

hey there beast! - always rely on u bro ;-) so 3 oral compounds at once -> Andriol /Var/Tbol .... guess 8 weeks is the absolute max and i better watch my liver stats with a stack like that - rite? does including Andriol effect the PCT protocoll in ways that it shud b altered from the originally planned? ->

starting end of intake of oral compounds
25mgs Aromasin /day/4weeks
20mgs Nolva/day/4weeks

now that an oral test is included would it be advisable to run and AI or SERM throughout the cycle and PCT adding the other at PCT?

[perfectbeast2001]

Andriol is not liver toxic so you do not have to worry about adding it. The other two compounds are though. PCT seems fine. I would not bother with an AI personally unless you suffer hugely with water retention ect. but keep nolva on hand just in case og gyno.

[davidinvienna]

bloody cross EU border biz travels! if it werent for that i wudnt mess round with tryin to put an oral only cycle together .... i liked the idea of 500mgs of Test E/week for 12weeks possibly chuckin in some EQ at 600mgs/week for 14weeks .... guess that ll hav to be cycle two then ... like planning ahead on these thgs LOL

[davidinvienna]

defo will hav nolva on hand since i hava dull feeling that i m gyno prone!

[Astrocreep_23]

Wasn't too bad, you will be f*cking like 7 jackrabbits for the first few weeks, so your missus will probably need a few weeks to recover from that anyway. Like beast said you could use Andriol but personally i wouldn't bother, its not that bad. Might wanna get blood work done at week 4 just to be on the safe side, mine was slightly elevated after 4 weeks of tbol at 40mg ED, but i think there were other factors at play there

[davidinvienna]

thx for the advice astro - really appreciate it! ... like the jackrabbit call hahaha so what's ur opinion on my planned PCT protocoll, look good to you?

[davidinvienna]

lookin at the cost of a triple stack oral only over here compared to the overall gains one can seem to expect i am pretty much tempted to just hold off the gear till i am done with my cross EU border trips and invest my hard earned cash in the "real deal" once i know i m gna b more or less static for 12-14 weeks on the go .... dont get me wrong guys, not dissin the oral compounds but at a local cost of close ... well way too much! for a mere 8weeks i can get one hell of an amount of high quality juice for the same price takin me way beyond the 12week mark - and that's including PCT compounds!!! bottom line - oral only cycle good n fine but surely not at that cost!

thx to all of you for your help on my research tho - defo have given me sum good ideas bout the occasional oral compound here n there to be added to my 2nd or 3rd cycle.

[BigNate]

You might want to edit the cost out of your last post before a mod catches it.

[davidinvienna]

oh ok ... thx 4 the info mate

[Swifto]

Proviron is not needed with tbol/var, because it should not aromatize. You will need a pct afterwards to restore your natural test levels.

Yes it should help you in your sport.

50mgs/day for both for 6-8 weeks. They are both liver toxic but not as bad as some other orals.

No alchohol, drink lots of water, take liver aid like milkthristle daily.

I would definitely keep an AI and SERM on hand when using Tbol, alone or combined with other androgens, whether they aromotase or not. Some claim the 4-cholor alteration meelry inhibits it aromotasing, not totally stops it. I have also seen some members on UK boards suggest Tbol aggrivated there nipples or caused gyno too. Better safe than sorry.

Second, I would also keep Proviron on hand when not using a form of testosterone or compound that will enhance labido. Some feel there labido increases on Tbol, others dont. I want to **** anything with legs. My dinning room chair began to look attractive at one point...

Proviron is the BB's viagra. If your labido drops on Tbol/Var start at 25mg/ED and work to a dose that suits accordingly.

Proviron for PCT....? I wont get on to that. Do a search.

[Swifto]

For a Tbol/Var stack, my PCT copounds would be chosen accordingy to the level of suppression. BW is the key.

If you cant get BW done. I would go with something like:

wk 1-3 Nolva 20mg/ED
wk 1-4 Aromasin 12.5-25mg/ED
wk 1-4 Proviron 25-50mg/ED

[davidinvienna]

G'day swifto ... some great advice there mate - thx

[Astrocreep_23]

So swifto, what should i be asking for when i get bloodwork done at the end of my cycle in order to gauge HPTA supression. Last time i had it done she only checked liver function, test levels, thyroid and a couple of other things. Will my test levels give me an indication if i was to get tested say, 3 days after discontinuing orals, or will i need to have my estro and progest levels checked too?

[Astrocreep_23]

Also, can i use clomid instead of proviron mid cycle to bring back libido and keep from shutting down my HPTA completly?

[mousetraps]

post such as executioners emergency room abcess make me kinda wanna go oral only sometimes.

[davidinvienna]

Good Q's there astrocreep! am interested in the answers to those myself

[Hellmaskbanned]

Also, can i use clomid instead of proviron mid cycle to bring back libido and keep from shutting down my HPTA completly?

Proviron isn't really necessary during that cycle IMO.
And running AI's or SERMS are not going to prevent HPTA suppression or shutdown. But if you have libido problems Proviron will help in that case, but with that cycle , You shouldnt be surpressed that hard to have willy problems while on, but after cycle thats a differnt story during recovery.

[davidinvienna]

G'day hellmask! so what u recommend after an 8week Andriol /Tbol/Var cycle in order to avoid crashin and restore natural test levels asap??

[Hellmaskbanned]

G'day hellmask! so what u recommend after an 8week Andriol/Tbol/Var cycle in order to avoid crashin and restore natural test levels asap??

AI(aromasin ) and Serm(nolva)

4 weeks,20mgs each.

[Animal Cracker]

So what is with the oral only revival?

[davidinvienna]

there any period of time i shud leave as a gap between last intake of andriol /tbol/var and starting the 4weeks AI & SERM ... or shud i start in the last week still on cycle??