Oral Cycle Advice Please !!!!!!

[nilrac]

Well that is a complete turn around, and I don't quite follow...

[Manpretty]

compared to spending 100's of dollars on primo + the rest of the stack you can spend close to 100 and get the same resluts from PH

[Anaboxa34]

Primo is weak and will not get you the gains you want.I would drop the whole idea of using steriods.I would use PROHORMONES,no injection,getting 10 pounds in 4 weeks cycles is very possible.

DItto goose

Dude go to the supplement forum, read the stickies, read some of the workout logs, and educate yourself about prohormones. You should find everything that your looking for there.

[nilrac]

I see, but again, why add the indepth post detailing the stack instead of recommending prohormones in the first place? That's what I found confusing. No matter...

[goose]

I see, but again, why add the indepth post detailing the stack instead of recommending prohormones in the first place? That's what I found confusing. No matter...

Good point.I was showing the parrots that they are wrong,oral cycles work and can be done in a safe way.The sides of prohormones are GeneRally higher than AAS,I was also hoping you might consider using injectables but I dont get that feeling with you and your wife,so best thing is prohormones for you.

[BOUNCER 01]

thanks for advice on test. im gonna do some more research

Simple fact bro, orals really f**k up you liver! Try and get hold of some DECA and SUS you will gain that 20lbs in no time with minimal damage to your liver. In the sense that it will do more damage in general compared to injectables. Good luck!

[nilrac]

Hey Goose, you've got the wrong guy. I was just involved in this thread and found it interesting to read. I never started it.

Personally, if and when I decide to juice (since I am going to continue to train naturally for a while longer), I'll probably inject. But orals seems alot more convenient. It's not the idea of injecting that puts me off personally, more the hassle of injection itself, purchasing the pins and syringes and disposing properly -and safely- of the used pins e.t.c. As opposed to down the hatch they go with an oral form, and that is that, as they say... you know?

[vitor]

[QUOTE=BOUNCER 01]
Simple fact bro, orals really f**k up you livers! /QUOTE]
Oral Primo and andriol doesnt harm the liver.

[getdowntoit]

Well EXCUSE me for not wording it the way YOU would like. I was just trying to stress a point that this guy needed to understand about the risks of MOST orals. In a quick attempt to get him to see the benefits of injectables if he is gonna do a cycle

Your making out as if injectables are safer, yes on the liver perhaps, but the dangers are still threre overall, doing an oral only for 6 weeks max is not going to put any real stress on the liver, they are a great place to start. As for wanting to gain 20lbs, well no one can really answer that. Do it in stages, do a 6 week oral then pct, have an equal amount of time off then do another cycle, nothing wrong with that.

[getdowntoit]

[QUOTE=vitor]

Simple fact bro, orals really f**k up you livers! /QUOTE]
Oral Primo and andriol doesnt harm the liver.

andriol might harm the liver just as much if you find out how many of them you need to take to get any effects from them. If you were doing a 10 week or more oral cyle then yes, they might cause harm to the liver, but usually oral cycles are 6 weeks long so in that sence orals will not fuk your liver up.

[goose]

[QUOTE=getdowntoit]

andriol might harm the liver just as much if you find out how many of them you need to take to get any effects from them. If you were doing a 10 week or more oral cyle then yes, they might cause harm to the liver, but usually oral cycles are 6 weeks long so in that sence orals will not fuk your liver up.

Your wrong buddy

Please post a study that andriol might harm the liver?

[chenbst]

I Need Adive On A Good Oral Cycle To Put On Mass (about 20 Lbs). I Told My Wife I Wouldnt Inject. Im 5' 2", 29 Yrs Old, And 170 Pounds.

Do your research, be it oral, inject, or paper learn about cycles and start out with low doses to asses your tolerance as for liver damage that usally occurs over a long period of time (years) or because of large doses. unfortunatly most bodybuilders think that more is better when actually more is where damage is done to the body you can use the recommended doses and still acheive good gains if not better gains. use them as a supplement. DO YOUR RESEARCH FIRST !!!

FIRST CYCLE:
Primo 150 tabs
Anadrol 50 tabs
Winstrol 200 tabs
Proviron 50 tabs
Nolva 100 tabs
Clomid 100 tabs

With Primo start with the minumum dose and increase to the max dose recommended then taper back to the min. Anadrol use 1-2 tabs with primo. Primo is a class 1 and binds well to AR receptors. Anadrol is a class 2, binds to other receptors very well, but not so much the AR, together they are very effective. Proviron is a hardner and also anti estro, use 25-50 mgs daily. Winstrol you can take 30 mgs daily for the entire cycle. Can use nolva the entire cycle as well. Run clomid for 6 weeks using max dose.

Edited. Do not post prices.

These are in paper form easily dissolved under the tongue bypassing the liver.
But check out paper sources first.

Good luck

[chenbst]

Primo is weak and will not get you the gains you want.I would drop the whole idea of using steriods.I would use PROHORMONES,no injection,getting 10 pounds in 4 weeks cycles is very possible.

ProH's used to be nice when they were legal. These "proH's" of now are just herbs or DHEA and not even close to what M1T or methyldianolone were. Want the real deal with few side effects, check out the cycle i posted earlier and look for the resouces to by them at, ****** edit for source posting is the best source.

[king6]

Do your research, be it oral, inject, or paper learn about cycles and start out with low doses to asses your tolerance as for liver damage that usally occurs over a long period of time (years) or because of large doses. unfortunatly most bodybuilders think that more is better when actually more is where damage is done to the body you can use the recommended doses and still acheive good gains if not better gains. use them as a supplement. DO YOUR RESEARCH FIRST !!!

FIRST CYCLE:
Primo 150 tabs
Anadrol 50 tabs
Winstrol 200 tabs
Proviron 50 tabs
Nolva 100 tabs
Clomid 100 tabs

With Primo start with the minumum dose and increase to the max dose recommended then taper back to the min. Anadrol use 1-2 tabs with primo. Primo is a class 1 and binds well to AR receptors. Anadrol is a class 2, binds to other receptors very well, but not so much the AR, together they are very effective. Proviron is a hardner and also anti estro, use 25-50 mgs daily. Winstrol you can take 30 mgs daily for the entire cycle. Can use nolva the entire cycle as well. Run clomid for 6 weeks using max dose.

Edited. Do not post prices.

These are in paper form easily dissolved under the tongue bypassing the liver.
But check out paper sources first.

Good luck

Holy shit on a stick! Running winstrol tabs, and anadrol is a bad idea IMO, winstrol is the harshest compound on the liver, and anadrol is not far behind, and you are wanting him to do a 14 week cycle? That is too much. I ran dbol for 4 weeks at 30mg/day, and that was enought to make my liver vaules high.

[king6]

Arrgggghhhh! Damn it! Damn newb got me, he bumped a 3 month old thread.

[spywizard]

IS that a fact??? where did you read that all oral shutdown you HPTA????
your a mod are you not???

edit: educate before you medicate.....does that sound familliar????

yes orals will shut you down to some extent... much ***ends on your age, and how your body responds, dose and time on..

var at 40mg day for 8 weeks does little to me
var at 80mg for 4 weeks effects me greatly

here is an partial from our profiles..

So why else may you keep such a high proportion of what you gained on ‘var? Well, I think it may be due to it’s relatively light impact on the HPTA, which brings me to my final point; Anavar will not totally shut down your HPTA, especially at lower doses (unlike testosterone, which will eventually do this even at a 100mg dose, or deca which will do it with a single 100mg dose). This could be due, at least partly, to the fact that Anavar doesn’t aromatize (convert to estrogen).
Serum testosterone, SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin), and LH (Leutinizing Hormone( will be slightly suppressed with low doses of Anavar, but less than with other compounds. FSH (Follicle Stimulating Hormone) , IGF1 (Insulin Like Growth Factor 1) and GH (Growth Hormone ) will not be suppressed with a low dose of Anavar, but will actually be raised significantly (12)(13)(14) as you may have guessed, and LH will even experience a “rebound” effect when you stop using anavar (3) If your endocrine system and HPTA are funtioning normally, you should be able to use anavar with minimal insult to it, and can even keep most of your values within the normal range (5).

Thus, Anavar may even be ideal for use in bridges between cycles, (at very low doses under 10mgs perhaps), or as previously mentioned, for cutting/strength cycles at 50-100mgs.

It’s relatively high cost is it’s only major drawback, and tablets can typically sell in Mexico or on the black market for up to a dollar (1USD) per 10mgs. Many black market dealers or Underground Labs, however offer capsules, liquid form (or in some cases, even their own brand of tabs) for substantially less money than the legit pharmaceutical versions, or even veterinary versions found overseas.

References:
1. Proj Inf Perspect. 1997 Nov;(23):19.
2. Burns. 2003 Dec;29(8):793-7
3. Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1993 Apr;38(4):393-8.
4. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1995 Sep;19(9):614-24
5. jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/84/8/2705
6. Segal S, Cooper J, Bolognia J., Treatment of lipodermatosclerosis with oxandrolone in a patient with stanozolol-induced hepatotoxicity., J Am Acad Dermatol 2000 Sep;43(3):558-9
7. Demling RH., Oxandrolone, an anabolic steroid , enhances the healing of a cutaneous wound in the rat., Wound Repair Regen 2000 Mar-Apr;8(2):97-102
8. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Oct;89(10):4863-72.
9. Demling RH, Orgill DP., The anticatabolic and wound healing effects of the testosterone analog oxandrolone after severe burn injury., J Crit Care 2000 Mar;15(1):12-7
10. Hart DW, Wolf SE, Ramzy PI, Chinkes DL, Beauford RB, Ferrando AA, Wolfe RR, Herndon DN., Anabolic effects of oxandrolone after severe burn., Ann Surg 2001 Apr;233(4):556-64
11. Demling RH, DeSanti L., The rate of restoration of body weight after burn injury, using the anabolic agent oxandrolone, is not age ***endent., Burns 2001 Feb;27(1):46-51
12. Demling RH, DeSanti L., Oxandrolone, an anabolic steroid, significantly increases the rate of weight gain in the recovery phase after major burns., J Trauma 1997 Jul;43(1):47-51
13. Papadimitriou A, Preece MA, Rolland-Cachera MF, Stanhope R., The anabolic steroid oxandrolone increases muscle mass in prepubertal boys with constitutional delay of growth., J Pediatr Endocrinol Metab 2001 Jun;14(6):725-7
14. Doeker B, Muller-Michaels J, Andler W, Induction of early puberty in a boy after treatment with oxandrolone? Horm Res 1998;50(1):46-8
15. J Appl Physiol 96: 1055-1062, 2004. First published October 24, 2003; doi:10.1152/japplphysiol.00808.2003
8750-7587/04
16. James JS., Wasting syndrome: oral oxandrolone re-released in U.S., AIDS Treat News 1995 Dec 22;(no 237):3-4
17. Drugs. 2004;64(7):725-50.
18. Mt Sinai J Med. 1999 May;66(3):201-5. [IMG]images/buttons/edit.gif[/IMG]

[chenbst]

Holy shit on a stick! Running winstrol tabs, and anadrol is a bad idea IMO, winstrol is the harshest compound on the liver, and anadrol is not far behind, and you are wanting him to do a 14 week cycle? That is too much. I ran dbol for 4 weeks at 30mg/day, and that was enought to make my liver vaules high.

These are in paper form easily dissolved under the tongue BYPASSING the liver.
Non-toxic!

[king6]

These are in paper form easily dissolved under the tongue BYPASSING the liver.
Non-toxic!

[chenbst]

type in your web browser: Real paper anabolics
look for a website that has an **************** in it two names combined.

[king6]

If you are placing the paper under your tounge, it is being absorbed in you blood stream by injestion. Anything injested has to go through the liver and the kidneys. I know what paper you are talking about. I ran his Dbol , and it raised my liver values.

[sci muscle]

Needles are way more fun....
And MOST orals ARE liver-toxic. I don't care what some macho moderators say.

[chenbst]

If you are placing the paper under your tounge, it is being absorbed in you blood stream by injestion. Anything injested has to go through the liver and the kidneys. I know what paper you are talking about. I ran his Dbol, and it raised my liver values.

True to one extent, but when orals are ingested via the mouth it must pass through the stomach, intestine, then liver before reaching the blood stream. less effective. By absorping straight into the blood stream you get more into your system and by the time it reaches the liver it's more or less used, leaving less to become toxic.

[chenbst]

Needles are way more fun....
And MOST orals ARE liver-toxic. I don't care what some macho moderators say.

To each their own i prefer orals (paper)

[king6]

True to one extent, but when orals are ingested via the mouth it must pass through the stomach, intestine, then liver before reaching the blood stream. less effective. By absorping straight into the blood stream you get more into your system and by the time it reaches the liver it's more or less used, leaving less to become toxic.

Correct, but you are describing how injectables work. They go into the muscle and then into the blood stream with little effect on the liver. Anything that goes into your mouth has to go through the liver.

[chenbst]

Correct, but you are describing how injectables work. They go into the muscle and then into the blood stream with little effect on the liver. Anything that goes into your mouth has to go through the liver.

the soft tissue of the mouth absorbs the anabolic first sending it into the blood stream first. It must travel a complete cycle before reaching the kidneys and liver.

[king6]

the soft tissue of the mouth absorbs the anabolic first sending it into the blood stream first. It must travel a complete cycle before reaching the kidneys and liver.

Hmmmm, guess that is something I will have to read up on.

[jsv22]

some of the comments on this threat are unbelievable! i can't believe that people are stating some of their uneducated opinions as facts lol
someone please make this stop,
-jsv

[Decoder]

Take the juice, i cant believe people wont shoot cause there gf or wife doesnt want them to, I set the rules for my body, not my gf. Lay out straight that you know what your doing, and guess what mostly likely If you show you know what your talking about they will go with it.

[Vader79]

I think some of you guys need to realise that for a lot of people outside of the steroid using and drug using communities, injections are a real taboo. Also, you act like with injections no-one experiences any problems. What about abscesses, septicemia (sp?), incorrect injection locations and ***ths. These are more common problems for people new to steroids and injecting (like the thread starter).

If you are shooting up some people are going to look at you as an altogether more ***raved individual. Many people have simply been programmed to associate needles with junkies, infections, and disease spread (Hepatitis etc and yes I know roid users dont share their pins, but the perception persists). and I can more than understand why this guys wife didn't want him using needles. No need to mock him, or question his wifes justifications.

It may cost more, but the fact is, he can make great gains by using Andriol as an almost completely liver friendly source of Testosterone and add to that Proviron (again this shouldn't raise liver values). There are a number of oral combo's that won't significantly impact on the liver.

So please lets not keep squarking "inject, inject" and "You'll kill your liver" anytime someone asks questions about oral only cycles.

[Two4the$$]

agreed vader.. too self righteous... if each didn't have a benefit, it'd slowly drop off the market.

How about

Var 100mg ED
OT 40mg ED

... should be good for 8 weeks on OT, and indefinitely on the var.

[JaCKeDuPD]

Horse 5'2 170 is big man.. im bout 5'4 and im bout 160 im trying test for the first time and takin eq and clens with it... with ur height and weight wouldnt you want to cut up hardcore and be rock hard? thats what im shootin for but i wanna boost my weight lil bit... us short ppl look funny wen we wide as a house dont ya think ? besides by taking orals gaining 20 lbs you better plan on more than one cycle... goodluck man take it easy on that liver and if u drink beer better stop with that many orals...

[obfuscation]

Dont listen to these parrots.Oral cycle do work,but you have to have big cash,and I mean BIG.I would do primo tabs,andriol testo caps and DBol .

by Bill Roberts - All else being equal, methenolone acetate is an excellent oral steroid drug. Unlike most other orals, it is not 17-alkylated and does not have liver toxicity problems. It is perhaps only half as potent by the oral route as by injection, so dosages need to be high, at least 100 and preferably 200-300 mg per day, but if that can be afforded it is an excellent drug. It is unusual among oral steroids as being Class I, binding well to the androgen receptor.

So this will make you gain 20 with no pinn.

12 weeks andriol 15 caps per day
12 weeks primo tabs 300 mg per day
10 weeks Dbol 20mg per day

This is not ideal but will get you the results, diet is the key....

Excuse my ignorance, Im wondering if you are saying all 3 should be done together or either or should be done.

[sci muscle]

I once knew a girl who did oral only. I could never convince her to let me inject her. Oh well, to each their own.

[chenbst]

[chenbst]

Hmmmm, guess that is something I will have to read up on.

Sublingual, literally 'under the tongue', from Latin, refers to a pharmacological route of administration in which certain drugs are entered directly into the bloodstream via absorption under the tongue. Many pharmaceuticals are prepared for sublingual administration. These commonly include cardiovascular drugs, steroids , barbiturates, some enzymes and increasingly frequently, certain vitamins and minerals.

The principle behind sublingual administration is fairly simple. When a chemical comes in contact with the mucous membrane, or buccal mucosa, it diffuses into the epithelium beneath the tongue. This region contains a high density of blood vessels, and as a result, via diffusion, the substance quickly enters the venous circulation, which returns to the heart and then travels to the systemic arterial circulation. In contrast, substances absorbed by the bowel are subject to "first pass metabolism" in the liver before they are distributed to the rest of the body.

In theory, sublingual routes of administration have certain advantages over simple oral administration. This route is often faster, and entering a drug into one's body sublingually ensures that the substance will only come in contact with the enzymes in saliva prior to entry into the bloodstream. Drugs otherwise orally administered must instead survive the incredibly hostile environment of the gastrointestinal tract