First cycle

[BigBrucie]

There is a diet section if you need help with your diet bro.. Sweet pots are better than any other type of pot, they are a good complex carb

yep and VERY £££
i hear that jamaican yam is also very good

alos i need more aprovl on my PCT
should i wait one week after cycle till i take HCG or take it straight after cycle.
please more approvals regarding my cycle

[joiningthedarkside]

yeah some of them did start that young and some of them will need hrt for the rest of their lives if they try and stop the juice. but some people will be fine. it all depends on the person. personally im 20 and i think thats ur age too. and ive had people tell me thats too young and maybe it is for me, but thats a risk im willing to take(im not say u or anyone else should) and if something happens to me its my own fault. also u have to figure the pros are getting payed for it and its part of their career. im not sure where u got the whole thing about bodybuilders not having any experience in the gym before the cycles? i dont think thats correct

[joiningthedarkside]

oh yeah on that whole diet thing. im no pro by any meens so i might get some crap but... as far as fish being expensive...tuna bro!!! suck it up and eat the shit! as far as 10 eggs for breakfest u might want to make sure u dont eat that many yokes! try and seperate the yokes. thats alot of cholesteral. for one yoke its like 40% of ur daily value! and all that protien in one sitting! its like 4 to 5 grams of protien per egg thats like 50 grams of protien in just the eggs then u got 8 from the milk and 24 from they whey. ok roughly 80 in one meal! like i said im no nutrionist but thats alot and i dont think ur body will be able to digest all that in one meal. try and spred it out more. as far as oat post workout try a bananna instead and the oats pre.

[jimmyinkedup]

Some of the individual posts on this thread offer some of the worst advice i've seen in a while....im sorry. How about first of all your only 20 yrs old...i still dunno how much you weight or bf% and i personally think 20 is too young. Your endocrine system is still developing and in addition to that you are limiting long term potential for greatest mass.That being said you are going to do it anyway so at least do it right. Get your diet training and rest in order otherwise it could be a dissappointing investment.

1-12 test c 400mg/week
1-4 dball 30mg/day

i personally wouldnt wait for estrogen related sides running dball and test even at low doses but thats me...either have adex on hand or use it at .25-.5 eod.
if u run adex run it up to pct dont stop after last injection run it to the beginning of pct especially if u use hcg .
if u wanna use hcg ...which is up to you -run it weeks 11-14 500ius - 2x/week
pct - starts 2 weeks post last injection of cyp
clomid 100/50/50/50
nolva 40/20/20/20

[BigBrucie]

Some of the individual posts on this thread offer some of the worst advice i've seen in a while....im sorry. How about first of all your only 20 yrs old...i still dunno how much you weight or bf% and i personally think 20 is too young. Your endocrine system is still developing and in addition to that you are limiting long term potential for greatest mass.That being said you are going to do it anyway so at least do it right. Get your diet training and rest in order otherwise it could be a dissappointing investment.

1-10 test c 400mg/week
1-4 dball 30mg/day

i personally wouldnt wait for estrogen related sides running dball and test even at low doses but thats me...either have adex on hand or use it at .25-.5 eod.
if u run adex run it up to pct dont stop after last injection run it to the beginning of pct especially if u use hcg .
if u wanna use hcg ...which is up to you -run it weeks 11-14 500ius - 2x/week
pct - starts 2 weeks post last injection of cyp
clomid 100/50/50/50
nolva 40/20/20/20

10 egg whites
bowl oats
24gr whey
120ml milk
codliver oil
multi vitamin
glucosomine

ON wieght gainer

2 chicken breasts
bowl vegetables
2 slice brown bread
flax seed


2 chicken breast
bowl brown rice
24gr whey

post workout 50gr whey/cup oats

salmon canned
bowl brown pasta


can tuna
100ml milk
24gr protien blend
raw egg whites
peanut butter 2 ts
multi vitamin
glucosomine
detox

how about giving clear descriptive answer as to why 20 may be young without any it remains yous opinion

so should i get rid of HCG and keep arimidex at hand. i just thought HCG might be good for nuts. i dont think arimidex during cycle is very good idea i would not mind using it during PCT

[BigBrucie]

Some of the individual posts on this thread offer some of the worst advice i've seen in a while....im sorry. How about first of all your only 20 yrs old...i still dunno how much you weight or bf% and i personally think 20 is too young. Your endocrine system is still developing and in addition to that you are limiting long term potential for greatest mass.That being said you are going to do it anyway so at least do it right. Get your diet training and rest in order otherwise it could be a dissappointing investment.

1-12 test c 400mg/week
1-4 dball 30mg/day

i personally wouldnt wait for estrogen related sides running dball and test even at low doses but thats me...either have adex on hand or use it at .25-.5 eod.
if u run adex run it up to pct dont stop after last injection run it to the beginning of pct especially if u use hcg .
if u wanna use hcg ...which is up to you -run it weeks 11-14 500ius - 2x/week
pct - starts 2 weeks post last injection of cyp
clomid 100/50/50/50
nolva 40/20/20/20

i know plenty of bodybuilders that have started at 20
and as for endocrine system come one thiere are risks at all ages.

[BigBrucie]

does anyone have information ragarding steroids cycle and taking
Corticosteroid (this may prescribed to me in few weeks time sugested by my physio for my shoulder tinditis)
it is not anabolic and thiere are no seruise known sides im just wondering how it would act alongside the AS in my systeml

[jimmyinkedup]

10 weeks is fine. Its changed like 3 times within the thread but 10 is fime. Just bump back everything i posted above 2 weeks (pct/hcg ). Read the thread below it will explain alot of the questions you asked re age and other factors that should tell you cycling right now may not be the best game plan. Your endocrine system will not be fully developed until around age 25 by taking steroids now you run the risk of damaging it and by doing so while it is still deveolping it may never fully develop properly - im pretty sure you want that fully functional throughout the remainder of your life. Also by starting steroids at this time. well before your natural peak and btw not just beacuse of age but training time and diet as well you are limiting the maximum amount of mass you can aquire down the road. Here is an oversimplified example. Lets say steroids can put 30lbs of muscle on your body in your lifetime ...you can add that 30 to your present stats ...or you can add it to where you would be once you reach your natural peak ...you will never overcome this barrier down the road. Then we get into weight (which is still top secret which leads me to believe bodyfat is a hell of alot more than12% which opens up another arena as far as why you shouldnt cycle yet)
Here is the link : When you SHOULDN'T use AAS imho....

[jimmyinkedup]

^^^ again brucie all personal choices but you wanted advice thats my best advice...along with that i outlined a proper cycle IMO (for when you dismiss my advice ....which is totally up to you)

[lovex]

so should i get rid of HCG and keep arimidex at hand. i just thought HCG might be good for nuts. i dont think arimidex during cycle is very good idea i would not mind using it during PCT

check this image and you will understand why HCG is so important


u can even LH getting higher but testrone is not getting higher( it takes time) ...that It is recommended u must go HCG between Last injection and PCT.....

[BigBrucie]

10 weeks is fine. Its changed like 3 times within the thread but 10 is fime. Just bump back everything i posted above 2 weeks (pct/hcg ). Read the thread below it will explain alot of the questions you asked re age and other factors that should tell you cycling right now may not be the best game plan. Your endocrine system will not be fully developed until around age 25 by taking steroids now you run the risk of damaging it and by doing so while it is still deveolping it may never fully develop properly - im pretty sure you want that fully functional throughout the remainder of your life. Also by starting steroids at this time. well before your natural peak and btw not just beacuse of age but training time and diet as well you are limiting the maximum amount of mass you can aquire down the road. Here is an oversimplified example. Lets say steroids can put 30lbs of muscle on your body in your lifetime ...you can add that 30 to your present stats ...or you can add it to where you would be once you reach your natural peak ...you will never overcome this barrier down the road. Then we get into weight (which is still top secret which leads me to believe bodyfat is a hell of alot more than12% which opens up another arena as far as why you shouldnt cycle yet)
Here is the link : When you SHOULDN'T use AAS imho....

i fully appreciate your concern are share them.
but this is a internal choice, ok i might not want to compete i might not get as big, yes you are right but that mentality never stops i know men in thiere 30s saying i can get a bit more from naturel then i will start a cycle until thiere entire life pasts them. also this is a internal choice i can see the diffrence a little bit of mass would do my life more pharmacological therefore i am willing to take the risk.

but i fully understand your points they are no doubt vali. what age did u start?

i am planning on after cycle getting bloodwork and fertility test and everything just to be safe

[jimmyinkedup]

^^25 and as i said brucie personal choices.

[BigBrucie]

^^25 and as i said brucie personal choices.

do u have much knpowledge regarding tendons
becouse i have seruise shoulder tendons issues and NHS physio are not much help been over 5 months.

iv mentioned a drug on this thread and another that is injecte4d between joint
it also a steroid can help me found more infomation regarding tis drug and taking it whilst on AS

[jimmyinkedup]

brucie....i wouldnt wanna answer this question i have no 1st hand experience.

[BigBrucie]

brucie....i wouldnt wanna answer this question i have no 1st hand experience.

it i take arimidex during should i take it one week in
and at what mg are arimidex sold because i have no idea how u can break a 1mg tab into 4 equal parts. also what about the low estrogen wont i have a harsh rebound when i come off also not to mention arimidex would limit my gains

u seem to have experience with adex

[BigBrucie]

check this image and you will understand why HCG is so important


u can even LH getting higher but testrone is not getting higher( it takes time) ...that It is recommended u must go HCG between Last injection and PCT.....

is Nolva realy essential whilst taking HCG?
(im def going to use it PCT but ondering if it was needed whilst tking HCG one week before PCT)

[BigBrucie]

just brought my stuff

know few more questions before i start
can someone please help with my diet (iv posted pupdated as diet on this thread).
how do i diet after PCT?
and how is this training split

1
chest/tri
Incline DB press
Flys
Press machine
Cable flys

then i will do 3 exercises for triceps.

2
qudas/hams/calves
Squats
Leg press
Leg raise
Stiff legged deadlift for ham
Ham curl
Calves

3
Shoulder/traps
DB press
Behind neck bar press
front raise, lateral raise superset
DB shrugs
Bar Shrugs

4
cardio(how longs?), abs

5
bac.bi
Deadlift
T bar Row
Lat pulldowns
another back exersice
bicep DB curls
BC bar cuels
BC cable

6
weak areas
(so chest and legs and shoulders 2 exersices for each body part)

7
cardio

any info on needle size for glutes and quads

thnxs

[BigBrucie]

is anyone on this forum going to bother to help?

[jimmyinkedup]

it i take arimidex during should i take it one week in
and at what mg are arimidex sold because i have no idea how u can break a 1mg tab into 4 equal parts. also what about the low estrogen wont i have a harsh rebound when i come off also not to mention arimidex would limit my gains

u seem to have experience with adex

Hey now easy Bruce ..it is a holiday you know...no wonder u dont wanna wait to hop on cycle ..u are impatient!! *L* if u were gonna use adex id use it from jump due to dbol kickstart. id do .25 eod ....and yes if u have 1 mg tabs break them in 4 (razor blade or pill splitter)...if liquid armidex..obviously easier. Pct should address rebound issues ...clomid/nolva will block estro receptor and excess estrogen from rebound effect will naturally be removed from the body via its natural disposal mechanism. Will it(adex) limit your gains ...possibly yes...i personally am of the better safe than sorry school of thought ...and if u were just running test id say dont use from start have on hand...however with the dball in the mix i think week 3 and 4 may pose some estro related problems ..... as i said above its your call. My biggest concern with first cycle just having it on hand is you arent aware 1st hand of what excess estro sides are and feel like..u dont waana wait till your nips are bothering you to start using adex(IMO)...look for water retention ...sex drive issues...things of that nature that are first signs of high estrogen.

[BigBrucie]

Hey now easy Bruce ..it is a holiday you know...no wonder u dont wanna wait to hop on cycle ..u are impatient!! *L* if u were gonna use adex id use it from jump due to dbol kickstart. id do .25 eod ....and yes if u have 1 mg tabs break them in 4 (razor blade or pill splitter)...if liquid armidex..obviously easier. Pct should address rebound issues ...clomid/nolva will block estro receptor and excess estrogen from rebound effect will naturally be removed from the body via its natural disposal mechanism. Will it(adex) limit your gains ...possibly yes...i personally am of the better safe than sorry school of thought ...and if u were just running test id say dont use from start have on hand...however with the dball in the mix i think week 3 and 4 may pose some estro related problems ..... as i said above its your call. My biggest concern with first cycle just having it on hand is you arent aware 1st hand of what excess estro sides are and feel like..u dont waana wait till your nips are bothering you to start using adex(IMO)...look for water retention ...sex drive issues...things of that nature that are first signs of high estrogen.

i guessill start adex at week 2
can you please help with my diet?

[lovex]

is Nolva realy essential whilst taking HCG ?
(im def going to use it PCT but ondering if it was needed whilst tking HCG one week before PCT)

there r different studies regarding whether to take Nova or not.....
HCG acts only mimic the action of LH..likwise is not a perfect hormone to combact testerone suspension..one another problem of HCG is estrogen will heightened...

Start with only HCG( 1week before PCT)

PCT
1st week HCG/ NOVA/Clomid will be good for following reason
A combination of these drugs will be very synergistic. HCG providing immediate effect on your tests.
Clomid/Nova will block estrongen and resume normal release of gonadrotropins from pituitary.

2nd week & *rest Nova/clomid.


*rest means 3rd ,4th week

[BigBrucie]

there r different studies regarding whether to take Nova or not.....
HCG acts only mimic the action of LH..likwise is not a perfect hormone to combact testerone suspension..one another problem of HCG is estrogen will heightened...

Start with only HCG( 1week before PCT)

PCT
1st week HCG/ NOVA/Clomid will be good for following reason
A combination of these drugs will be very synergistic. HCG providing immediate effect on your tests.
Clomid/Nova will block estrongen and resume normal release of gonadrotropins from pituitary.

2nd week & rest Nova/clomid.

youve lost me hear
so your saying start pct 1 week after as apposed to two weeks
and take hcg clomid and nolva
and only do pct for two weeks?

ill take hcg and 20mg nolva 1 week after cycle

then start pct after 1 week of HCG

can you PLEASE help with diet
im confused people say it more BUT iv been reading
UNoffical "How to Bulk" thread and sample diet
and it seems what im eating is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more then the sample diet which is 2997cal
so surely im al set to go

[jimmyinkedup]

lovex- what pct protocol do you do? all im seeing is u reading a bunch or info- regurgitating it and confusing the hell out of him.

im saying brucie: clomid 100/50/50/50 nolva 40/20/20/20
if u wanna use hcg (which is fine)use it last 2 weeks of cycle and first 2 weeks prior to pct. Use at 500iu 2x/week
use your adex right up to pct.....

as far as diet the diet section here is about the best help u r gonna get...great threads there do searches ...bulking diet etc....

[lovex]

lovex- what pct protocol do you do? all im seeing is u reading a bunch or info- regurgitating it and confusing the hell out of him.

im saying brucie: clomid 100/50/50/50 nolva 40/20/20/20
if u wanna use hcg (which is fine)use it last 2 weeks of cycle and first 2 weeks prior to pct. Use at 500iu 2x/week
use your adex right up to pct.....

as far as diet the diet section here is about the best help u r gonna get...great threads there do searches ...bulking diet etc....

Clomid/Nova is perfect PCT.....
if he is planning to use adex right upto PCT then it is OK to go with HCG during cycle(2weeks prior and 2weeks before pct).....

jimmy I personally think for first cycle(test/dbol ) he doesn't need to use AI until gyno symp appears (You don't go from sensitive nipples to boobs in two weeks if you are only on a first cycle)......
AI's are not always needed, especially if one has been used to control estrogen (aromatse activity) during the cycle. There is a high risk of lowering estrogen too low and that can bring its own side effects; Lowered labido, aching joints, poor cholesterol and can negatively effect the immune system. We need some estrogen, not alot, not zero, but one cannot afford a too low an estrogen level at this time of PCT.


dont u think at 1st week of PCT your test level will fall again as u stopped HCG...u never increased your LH before PCT ( as LH levels will be down ) but if u use in the first week of PCT also your LH levels will increase(nova/clomid) and HCG providing effect on test....

after reading from articles from PoWer PCT...it is said it would be good if all three HCG/NOVA/clomid as I stated
A combination of these drugs will be very synergistic. HCG providing immediate effect on your tests.Clomid/Nova will block estrongen and resume normal release of gonadrotropins from pituitary.

Regarding diet
there is a xcellent thready by muriloninja
So you wanna learn how to Diet?

one more good thread by LeanMeOut
UNoffical "How to Bulk" thread and sample diet...

Iam pretty sure it must help u :-)

[jimmyinkedup]

Clomid/Nova is perfect PCT.....
if he is planning to use adex right upto PCT then it is OK to go with HCG during cycle(2weeks prior and 2weeks before pct).....he already said he will be doing this

jimmy I personally think for first cycle(test/dbol ) he doesn't need to use AI until gyno symp appears (You don't go from sensitive nipples to boobs in two weeks if you are only on a first cycle)......right but adex will take a week to reach stsble blood levels and at .25eod i seriously doubt he will hamper his gains
AI's are not always needed, especially if one has been used to control estrogen (aromatse activity) during the cycle. There is a high risk of lowering estrogen too low and that can bring its own side effects; Lowered labido, aching joints, poor cholesterol and can negatively effect the immune system. We need some estrogen, not alot, not zero, but one cannot afford a too low an estrogen level at this time of PCT.no one recommended an ai during pct..not me anyway


dont u think at 1st week of PCT your test level will fall again as u stopped HCG...u never increased your LH before PCT ( as LH levels will be down ) but if u use in the first week of PCT also your LH levels will increase(nova/clomid) and HCG providing effect on test....i can only speak from personal experience what works for me

after reading from articles from PoWer PCT...it is said it would be good if all three HCG/NOVA/clomid as I stated
A combination of these drugs will be very synergistic. HCG providing immediate effect on your tests.Clomid/Nova will block estrongen and resume normal release of gonadrotropins from pituitary.

Regarding diet
there is a xcellent thready by muriloninja
So you wanna learn how to Diet?

one more good thread by LeanMeOut
UNoffical "How to Bulk" thread and sample diet...

Iam pretty sure it must help u :-)

Again what pct protocol do you use that has worked well for you? Look i know u r trying to help but as he said above u r confucing him...thats the last thing he needs as there areobviously alot of questions already. Its his first cycle it should really be as simple ass possible ..imo it should be test only but whatever he stated hi parmeters and i and others have tried to help...it seems we were pretty close to a gameplan but now this info is trhown in the mix imo unnecessarily.

[lovex]

youve lost me hear
so your saying start pct 1 week after as apposed to two weeks
and take hcg clomid and nolva
and only do pct for two weeks?

ill take hcg and 20mg nolva 1 week after cycle

then start pct after 1 week of HCG

can you PLEASE help with diet
im confused people say it more BUT iv been reading
UNoffical "How to Bulk" thread and sample diet
and it seems what im eating is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more then the sample diet which is 2997cal
so surely im al set to go

PCT for test c is two weeks after last injection.
what i meant by "2 & rest" is 2nd week,rest of the PCTweeks(3rd ,4th week) go with nolva/clomid

[lovex]

Again what pct protocol do you use that has worked well for you? Look i know u r trying to help but as he said above u r confucing him...thats the last thing he needs as there areobviously alot of questions already. Its his first cycle it should really be as simple ass possible ..imo it should be test only but whatever he stated hi parmeters and i and others have tried to help...it seems we were pretty close to a gameplan but now this info is trhown in the mix imo unnecessarily.

yes it must be test only in first cycle....
first cycle must be simple (without adex) I would say...he must decide
regarding Hcg I would like to ask u "what made u think 11-14 for HcG", why didnt u consider Hcg in PCT...pls no off but just a query.

[jimmyinkedup]

your hpta will not recover on its own with hcg being used. it will remain shut down. Using hcg up to pct will prep you for pct with benefits of hcg useage you noted. In all honesty most wouldnt even reccomend it as necessary with this cycle but hey no harm if he want to use it. Id have kept this whole process alot simpler test only no dball.....straight pct no hcg ...no ai needed on cycle just on hand...but whatever....

[lovex]

your hpta will not recover on its own with hcg being used. it will remain shut down. Using hcg up to pct will prep you for pct with benefits of hcg useage you noted. In all honesty most wouldnt even reccomend it as necessary with this cycle but hey no harm if he want to use it. Id have kept this whole process alot simpler test only no dball.....straight pct no hcg ...no ai needed on cycle just on hand...but whatever....

I think HcG should be considered even for test cycle (10weeks of natural test shutdown)......
thanks for your reply :-)

[daem]

Start a new thread for Christ's sake...This is ridiculous.

[BigBrucie]

ok things have gotten worst i could barely workout due to tendon pains
and am therefore taking out D-bol
and either putting in

Deca
or
Equipoise
im thinking 400mg
im not sure how long deca 9 weeks
or
Equipoise 10 weeks
help me out guys do i keep pct same i dont whant my balls to go during i whant to keep them up and running but i think test will do that for me.

allot of you are saying simple cycle yes you ar right.
but what is the use of only test cycle when i can barley work out due to pains
hopefully deca or equipoise should sought that out

[vishus]

Start a new thread for Christ's sake...This is ridiculous.

i agree, this sh1t is out of control