short esters notable within hours instead of days??

**tripmachine** · 02-26-2010, 01:09 PM

So i hear people saying they notice short esters kicking in within a few hours or so but I don't notice that at all I don't think anyway.... (figured i'd start my own thread to get better responses than high jack one I didn't mean to)

So I started my 700mg tren a ew 700mg mast ew 700mg prop ew about 5 days ago..... should i feel this or notice it right now? I may notice it but then again I think my mind plays tricks on me or I want to believe I don't notice it yet...... Anyway does it work differently for each individual?

How soon do you notice short esters working? What is it you notice or feel first? Thanks!

**jc95605** · 02-26-2010, 01:13 PM

I'm curious about test prop too. anybody know?

**Swifto** · 02-26-2010, 01:17 PM

Test Propionate blood levels tend to peak 24hours post injection.

Test Enan and Cyp 4-5 days post injection.

**mg1228** · 02-26-2010, 01:21 PM

no offense---but what does that mean in laymen terms?

**Swifto** · 02-26-2010, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by mg1228

no offense---but what does that mean in laymen terms?

It means that the plasma concentration of the hormone (Testosetrone) will be at its highest at the given time(24hr - Propionate , 96-120hrs Enanthate , Cypionate ). It will then decline over time.

So a 1ml shot of 250mg/ml Test Enanthate will hit its peak around 4-5 days post injection, then decline. As it declines there will be less active hormone (Testosterone ) in the body. By 14-15 days, there will be no active hormone left. In theory.

The ester determines the rate of release of the parent hormone.

**tripmachine** · 02-26-2010, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

Test Propionate blood levels tend to peak 24hours post injection.

Test Enan and Cyp 4-5 days post injection.

peak 24 hours after..... so does that mean you 'feel' something? i'm just curious as to what people feel? I don't know... maybe I never really feel anything on cycle other than see the results and feel like I'm gaining quicker than not on cycle.... I don't really feel anything though or do i? lol

**CaliPhotog** · 02-26-2010, 01:38 PM

I guess it would depend on what criteria you use to define "feel". From personal experience I can tell you this. When coming off a Sust. cycle about 12-14 days after my last shot I got to the point with my "feelings" that I was super irritable, very moody, emotional and generally crappy feeling. I decided that I would go on a HRT dose instead of starting a PCT. 24hrs. after injecting 125mg of Sust. my sides started to get better and within 48hrs. they where totally gone. Right now, I am on day 11 of a Test Prop cycle and I feel great, but don't have any feeling of euphoria, elevated libido, or strength.

**Swifto** · 02-26-2010, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by tripmachine

peak 24 hours after..... so does that mean you 'feel' something? i'm just curious as to what people feel? I don't know... maybe I never really feel anything on cycle other than see the results and feel like I'm gaining quicker than not on cycle.... I don't really feel anything though or do i? lol

Testosterone is at its highest level at that point. You may "feel" it, you may not. I dont know. I dont "feel" it, I dont think. Its probably pysciological.

I wrote something a little while back titles, "Testosterone - When does it really kick in?". Its a good discussion with a full paper to back it.

**Swifto** · 02-26-2010, 01:40 PM

In the AM, my labido is at its highest, even on exogenous testosterone . I have no idea why...

**tripmachine** · 02-26-2010, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

Testosterone is at its highest level at that point. You may "feel" it, you may not. I dont know. I dont "feel" it, I dont think. Its probably pysciological.

I wrote something a little while back titles, "Testosterone - When does it really kick in?". Its a good discussion with a full paper to back it.

yeah i know what you mean..... well at least i know when it's literally at it's peak now.. Thanks!! Do you have the link to that thread you just mentioned? I searched for that title but came up with nothing... Thanks again!

**tripmachine** · 02-26-2010, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by CaliPhotog

I guess it would depend on what criteria you use to define "feel". From personal experience I can tell you this. When coming off a Sust. cycle about 12-14 days after my last shot I got to the point with my "feelings" that I was super irritable, very moody, emotional and generally crappy feeling. I decided that I would go on a HRT dose instead of starting a PCT. 24hrs. after injecting 125mg of Sust. my sides started to get better and within 48hrs. they where totally gone. Right now, I am on day 11 of a Test Prop cycle and I feel great, but don't have any feeling of euphoria, elevated libido, or strength.

Thanks for the feedback.... i know exactly what you mean about feeling sh!tty when coming off...... it's not the best of feelings.. I'm feeling great today!! but maybe that's because it's the weekend... ;b

**bjohnson1968** · 02-26-2010, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

It means that the plasma concentration of the hormone (Testosetrone) will be at its highest at the given time(24hr - Propionate , 96-120hrs Enanthate , Cypionate ). It will then decline over time.

So a 1ml shot of 250mg/ml Test Enanthate will hit its peak around 4-5 days post injection, then decline. As it declines there will be less active hormone (Testosterone ) in the body. By 14-15 days, there will be no active hormone left. In theory. Why does it take 4-5 weeks at the beginning of a cycle for your test to kick in with enth or cyp????

The ester determines the rate of release of the parent hormone.

Bold
Could you shed some light on this swifto

Peace

**tripmachine** · 02-26-2010, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by bjohnson1968

Bold
Could you shed some light on this swifto

Peace

That's why i'll never run a test e cycle unless i have something to kick start it..... it just doesn't make sense to me to not have a kick start or front load....

**laduem88** · 02-26-2010, 03:36 PM

yea i never understood long ester cycle cause you need a kickstart plus on top of that it takes longer to leave your system and then you end up being on a cycle for a longer time which means you need to take a longer break off cycling.

anyways this is my theory ...when injecting stuff like tren and prop when you first start a cycle like you are right now, your body has to first shut down its natty test and get your blood levels and everything adjusted to the hormone change which will take a 5-7 days roughly...then after that, THATS when you starts "feeling" it. idk how right that is but its how it goes with me...with orals is when you will feel it in hours like Halo or MT...or also test suspension

**bjohnson1968** · 02-27-2010, 05:45 AM

bump for more info

Peace

**Swifto** · 02-27-2010, 05:52 AM

Understanding Esters, Active-Life and Half-Life

There is also another excellent article I'm trying to find on esters, half-lives etc...

Even if your using a long acting ester, you'll be getting the benifits after a matter of days IMHO. When testosterone levels increase, so do gains etc...

**will_work** · 02-27-2010, 05:54 AM

you know i had some test e that seemed like it worked in 2 days before...i never said any thing about it untell now
maybe it was mixed with Propionate too IDK..

**soulstealer** · 02-27-2010, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by will_work

you know i had some test e that seemed like it worked in 2 days before...i never said any thing about it untell now
maybe it was mixed with Propionate too IDK..

Whenever I run long estered test I notice positive libido effects in 2-3 days... it usually peaks at 2-3 weeks as thats when it reaches its highest concentration in the body...

Think about it... 15 day active life and your doing twice a week
day 1
day 4.5
day 8
day11.5
day15

you have just done 5 shots and the first one is possibly still contributing something..

I think people confuse esterification with somehow not being bio-available immediately? the ester is merely a time release mechanism and doesnt stop receptor binding...

**will_work** · 02-27-2010, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by soulstealer

Whenever I run long estered test I notice positive libido effects in 2-3 days... it usually peaks at 2-3 weeks as thats when it reaches its highest concentration in the body...

Think about it... 15 day active life and your doing twice a week
day 1
day 4.5
day 8
day11.5
day15

you have just done 5 shots and the first one is possibly still contributing something..

I think people confuse esterification with somehow not being bio-available immediately? the ester is merely a time release mechanism and doesnt stop receptor binding...

yeah but the second cycle i ran did do nothing for 6 weeks it seemed.. but when my test kicked in holly siht!!! i just wanted to **** every and any girl i seen even old ladies.. damn test

**bjohnson1968** · 02-27-2010, 06:36 AM

I still don't fully get the concept that It takes 5 weeks for test enth and cyp to kick in at the beginning of a cycle then, or the recommendation that pct should start at 2 weeks after last injection. They way I see it is if it takes 4-5 weeks for the concentration of test be noticable wouldn't the backside of the cycle be the same for pct purposes. One would have to think your levels at pct time of 14 days will still be fairly high.

Peace

**Swifto** · 02-27-2010, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by bjohnson1968

I still don't fully get the concept that It takes 5 weeks for test enth and cyp to kick in at the beginning of a cycle then, or the recommendation that pct should start at 2 weeks after last injection. They way I see it is if it takes 4-5 weeks for the concentration of test be noticable wouldn't the backside of the cycle be the same for pct purposes. One would have to think your levels at pct time of 14 days will still be fairly high.
Peace

This is something I've been looking into recently.

It doesnt matter if the ester is still active in the body or not. The body will only begin endogenous hormone output when almost compltely hypogondal (no active testosterone ) and if the total T level of the user is high, it will take longer than 14 days for Enanthate for natural hormone output to begin.

I'm thinking the dose of the compound should determine PCT start time now, not length of ester. 1000mg/wk of Test Enan will push total T levels far higher than 250mg/wk. See what I'm saying?

**bjohnson1968** · 02-27-2010, 07:41 AM

I would absolutely agree dose would play a very big role in pct start time in conjunction with ester because that would dictate how fast the test would be dispursed into your system. I think even at a dose of say 500mgs a week of say enth or cyp the "standard" prodical of 14 days seems to short of a time frame and your test levels at this time would still be well of normal of course a high dose would seem to impact that even more

Peace

**hankdiesel** · 02-27-2010, 07:45 AM

I always start having goofy dreams the first day I take a shot of tren . Night sweets start soon there after. If you are feeling some "effects" at those doses I don't think it's all in your head.

**Swifto** · 02-27-2010, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by bjohnson1968

I would absolutely agree dose would play a very big role in pct start time in conjunction with ester because that would dictate how fast the test would be dispursed into your system. I think even at a dose of say 500mgs a week of say enth or cyp the "standard" prodical of 14 days seems to short of a time frame and your test levels at this time would still be well of normal of course a high dose would seem to impact that even more

Peace

Its difficult, becuase when someone's on HRT a 100mg/wk dose may put one individual at 800ng/dl and someone else at 500ng/dl. That would still be applicable for larger doses too.

600mg/wk Test Enan after 16 weeks puts total T at around 3000-4000ng/dl. I cant see that coming down to acceptable levels for endo. hormones to restart in 14 days. Not a chance.

**bjohnson1968** · 02-27-2010, 08:00 AM

My point exactly!!! I believe when pct is started at 14 days after last inj your robbing yourself of the full benefit of possiblly your last couple of inj. Swifto your much more educated than me when it comes to aas I'm just looking from the logical side of things
Interesting concept yet unaswered with alot of unstable variables that come into play

Peace

**magic32** · 02-27-2010, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by CaliPhotog

I guess it would depend on what criteria you use to define "feel".

BINGO!
Feel what?
Horny? Tired? Energized? Sleepy? Strong? Bloated? Stinky? Oily?

Any of these (and others) may be felt as soon as the serum levels have peaked (based on time, as indicated by Swift). It should also be noted that the aforementioned peaking occurs not just once, but in the allotted timeframes, after EVERY administration of the compounds.

Assuming you mean "feel" the anabolic effects, i.e. strength, endurance, increased muscle, vascularity, etc...that's a big NEGATIVO! These only come after the gear interacts with raw materials (training stimulus, increased cals, increased protein, recovery, etc.) long enough to be assimilated and to promote said effects.

For a simple explanation of half-lives see sig. below.

Best to you.