The young and Steroids

[mike1990]

Ok im 19 and have done more then one cycle with no pct and keeped all gains the way i look at it Arnold Schwarzenegger started to juice when he was 16 and he has got a lot out of it and has 2 kids now i believe.

So if it really dose hurt kids that bad how can he have 2 after years and years of useing gear. jw

[HawaiianPride.]

Ok im 19 and have done more then one cycle with no pct and keeped all gains the way i look at it Arnold Schwarzenegger started to juice when he was 16 and he has got a lot out of it and has 2 kids now i believe.

So if it really dose hurt kids that bad how can he have 2 after years and years of useing gear. jw

I'm so fking sick of the Arnold excuse. Kids these days are so quick to jump the gun and be followers rather than leaders.

[mike1990]

Im not jumping the gun dude im just saying if the sides where that bad how can some bodybuilders have took them none stop for years and still have kids im jw it dont make since.

[Matt]

^^^ Thats the point, only some are fine.

Just listen to what your saying, it even sounds childish. Look at it this way, i knew of 4 people who smoked 100 cigarettes a day, they all died from some form of cancer. Now i could say well i should be ok because i heard of some guy in the next town who smoked 100 a day and he was fine.. You see its the same principle.....

[kleaver]

^^^ amen

i need to find this BB's name... i forget at the moment-
but one of arnold's very good friends, fellow competitor, and training partner took gear along with arnold- same age, same gym, etc.

same stack even- i think in the early years it was enth/deca ...not sure.

well... arnold's body worked very well with the gear, and his training partner did irrevocable metabolic damage, and today, nobody knows his name.

it's not the gear that makes the BBer... its genetics/training/dedication/diet/ability to exercise restraint (they are called cycles b'c you can't just buy a 5yr supply and go nonstop, you go on and off at smart intervals)

[mike1990]

Ok matt i see what ur saying that is true.

Ok but kleaver what ur saying is if the genetics/training/dedication/diet/ability is there u well be fine?

[Vorcellian]

Thanks for the post, I turned 21 recently and have been considering starting a cycle (been training since I was 15; seriously since 16.5-17) based on the advice from bb.com members of age 21 being the "magic age" when risk of permanent side effects lessen. Thinking twice about that now, think I'm going to wait at least another two years to turn 23/24 before coming back to AAS. Stats right now are 6'1", 195lb 10%

[rombus]

Due to the recent number of PM's ive been receiving regarding age and steroids I thought i'd write this thread to try and help some of our younger members. Ive also been having a conversation with my Endocrinologist who may give a more profession opinion on the subject:

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.
Marcus

Thanks for this post. I have some Qs regarding what your doc said

1) Did your doctor say what kinds of irreverisble damage?

2) the brain is still developing, but what aspects of that dev will AAS have?

Because as far as I am concerned, AAS results in temporary neg feebback on your pituitary gland, and nothing else. Will this slow down the development of the pituitary gland? I am not really undertsand exactly what that doctor is saying. Can you shed smoe light on this?

[rombus]

[QUOTE=Matt;5423603]^^^ Thats the point, only some are fine.

Just listen to what your saying, it even sounds childish. Look at it this way, i knew of 4 people who smoked 100 cigarettes a day, they all died from some form of cancer. Now i could say well i should be ok because i heard of some guy in the next town who smoked 100 a day and he was fine.. You see its the same principle.....[/QUO
Te]
I know what you're saying but I also undertstand his point of view. Are there actually statistics regarding the fertility of bodybuilders? Of the pro bodybuilders that we know of, what % of them have died ealry (say before age 50)? Im not sure if I would just generalize and say either steroids are completely safe or compleettly dangerous withou some solid stats. It seems to me that more people are assumoing that AAS is dangerous even though those claims are unsubstantiated.

[marcus300]

Thanks for this post. I have some Qs regarding what your doc said

1) Did your doctor say what kinds of irreverisble damage?

2) the brain is still developing, but what aspects of that dev will AAS have?

Because as far as I am concerned, AAS results in temporary neg feebback on your pituitary gland, and nothing else. Will this slow down the development of the pituitary gland? I am not really undertsand exactly what that doctor is saying. Can you shed smoe light on this?

1, The Endo said that taking steroids will disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but the risks are far more if your administrate exogenous androgens during development, this effects can be erratic behaviour of your HPTA and potentially therapy when your older. I think the risks are far greater if you take steroids when you haven't fully developed, yes we all fully develop at different ages and there isnt one set age but he also stated that the HPTA is very sensitive and it needs to establish its rhythm and pattern otherwise full output of the HPTA can be effected.

2, We all develop at different ages, there isn't one set age but the brain is said to be one of the last things what develop or certain parts fully mature in later life, I don't think AAS is going to affect the brain directly but the HPTA is part of the brain and hormones are regulated via this system.

You aren't going to find any studies done on bodybuilders using steroids at a dosages what we use to build tissue but you are going to find thousands and thousands of threads across all forums of the young having problems with their hormones after they have used steroids, of course your going to get many young bb's recovering without any issues but there is also many what don't, ive seen this more and more over the years ive been training. I would rather edge on side of caution when giving advice and this would be advising to take steroids at an age when your have fully developed and your HPTA as set its own pattern and its established its output, by shutting down a system what's not full matured or established its rhythm can cause problems.

[rombus]

1, The Endo said that taking steroids will disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but the risks are far more if your administrate exogenous androgens during development, this effects can be erratic behaviour of your HPTA and potentially therapy when your older. I think the risks are far greater if you take steroids when you haven't fully developed, yes we all fully develop at different ages and there isnt one set age but he also stated that the HPTA is very sensitive and it needs to establish its rhythm and pattern otherwise full output of the HPTA can be effected.

2, We all develop at different ages, there isn't one set age but the brain is said to be one of the last things what develop or certain parts fully mature in later life, I don't think AAS is going to affect the brain directly but the HPTA is part of the brain and hormones are regulated via this system.

You aren't going to find any studies done on bodybuilders using steroids at a dosages what we use to build tissue but you are going to find thousands and thousands of threads across all forums of the young having problems with their hormones after they have used steroids, of course your going to get many young bb's recovering without any issues but there is also many what don't, ive seen this more and more over the years ive been training. I would rather edge on side of caution when giving advice and this would be advising to take steroids at an age when your have fully developed and your HPTA as set its own pattern and its established its output, by shutting down a system what's not full matured or established its rhythm can cause problems.

Wow...thanyou Marcus, that is VERY insightful, esp that last paragraph. You are experienced and your experience is invaluable. Thankyou for this, because I have honestly tried to look for such studies but found none and even medical school offers VERY little on this subject matter (I have classmates who think that AAS will decr the size of one's penis).

[Honkey_Kong]

You aren't going to find any studies done on bodybuilders using steroids at a dosages what we use to build tissue but you are going to find thousands and thousands of threads across all forums of the young having problems with their hormones after they have used steroids, of course your going to get many young bb's recovering without any issues but there is also many what don't, ive seen this more and more over the years ive been training. I would rather edge on side of caution when giving advice and this would be advising to take steroids at an age when your have fully developed and your HPTA as set its own pattern and its established its output, by shutting down a system what's not full matured or established its rhythm can cause problems.

Marcus, on top of this, how many of those kids whom allegedly recover with no issues actually ended up without any irreversable damage? I mean, kids don't get bloodwork done typically. They only cry when they grow boobs or lose the hair on their head.

On top of that for all the people who list pro-athletes who use roids at a young age as their justification were using false premises to base their decision. There is a huge difference between somebody like Arnold or Bonds juicing it up in order to perform at a higher level in their respective sports. Their lively hood and the promise of money and sponsorships depends on them being at the very best in their game. The average kid thinking about juicing is most likely never going to be in those guys positions so the benefits of the fame/money/top of sport don't exist for them, but the risk remains the same.

[marcus300]

Very good points and true ^^

[kanamesan]

i have found this thread not only informative but also enjoyable
i still want to use gear but at the same time i'm thinking twice about using it at this age
bump

[butteryhumble]

Solid, really helped me change my mind, I have read a lot of articles here and there, but this pretty much sums it up.

[marcus300]

Solid, really helped me change my mind, I have read a lot of articles here and there, but this pretty much sums it up.

Thanks for the feedback and well done on your decision, very wise

[Brohim]

True your Endrocrine system is still upregulating your hormones until you reach 25 yo. After that your system start's to down regulate hormones, including testosterone and it eventually declines by a small amount 1-2% or less each year.

And you should sticky this to the top instead of bumping it every few hours.

[zivot]

Thanks for this thread. I wasn't planning on doing any cycles for a couple of years, but this defiantly adds some facts and realization to the choice of using or nor using as a young adult.

[backthen]

More and more young ones are experiancing aas a too young of an age. i'm 22 about to do my 2 cycle, exposed to them when i was 19 w no idea about the science of them.
i've learnt a lot and very glad my body responded well. There are too many young guys who have no idea what they do to your body or how they can effect a young ones future. They think its just something you take and you get big. This is a good thread makes ppl think

[Hydroponics]

I started eating dbols at 17 bc i was skinny scrawny and bullied in jr high... I ended up with gyno and ed for awhile... Now 6 yrs later im finally fine again...

[Riot148]

Really appreciate this thread coming from the stand point of a young bb. Obviously knowing everyone's main reaction before asking the following but would like some input. I stopped growing at the age of 18. Currently 21yrs and permanently injured multiple times over, I think I have reached my natural peak. I have trained my brain to crave only the foods that fit my diet plan and hardly miss a day at the gym. I am a recent college grad training crew (rowing) and rugby. My collegues have good amounts of energy. Mine is completely depleted. I sleep around 12hrs a night and my day revolves around my gym and supplement schedule. Therefore with all this in mind I have begun to consider GH and insulin . Somatropin specifically. I am worried about my growth plates fusing but if I stopped growing at the age of 18 do I need to be? Also what else should I be worried about if I only take a max of 5iu per day 5 days a week and only use a total of 200iu.

I am solely just gathering information because up until this point I have always been the one who "owns" the gym and now I'm paying for it. Arthritis, carpel tunnel and condral malaticia (sp? Joint popping) in my hands, shoulders popping in and out, knee condral malaticia, lower back pain, etc.

5'9, 168lbs, 6%

[robinjohn12]

now a days people want all thing fast, so they use it for their body building.

[tigerspawn]

Im glad to hear that there are body builders out there that tell people not to use. With my job I have had the oportunity to travel around the country and work out in many different gyms. Its sad to say but in every gym I have ever worked out in they push gear. Young guys are told that the only way to gain is to use. They are introduced to dealers and told what to buy and how to use. Thats BS most of these guys are still teenagers and havent even spent the time to get big naturlly.

[Codyylee15]

[QUOTE=marcus300;5378651]Due to the recent number of PM's ive been receiving regarding age and steroids I thought i'd write this thread to try and help some of our younger members. Ive also been having a conversation with my Endocrinologist who may give a more profession opinion on the subject:

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.
I am 15 185 pounds 5'7 1/2 over weight and want to cut down my older friend (34 ) could help me cut down and muscle up I want to know the effects and what well happen plz help me thanks

[Hero1988]

Awesome read Marcus, thanks for the info... Been trying to get a hold of some test Enanthate , but so far no luck, so I think I am gonna try the test 600 and deca 200 together. Any suggestions?

QUICK EDIT: I have been on pain killers for 4 years, due to broken spine... So that is why I am so young and have low test. I am trying to rely on the test only for a natural pain killer. I remember my first cycle of 400mg week I went from 149 to 173 in 1 month. I was told by the guys at the gym, that those were not usual results. Some of them didn't feel I really did have low test, but test show otherwise. I noticed the test cured my depression, I grew 2 inch on my libido, I woke up every morning super happy.. I mean, had tons of bills, Normally wake up in pain, but I was waking up happy and excited, and I was eating better. Could NOT control the Acne though, Hope you pro's have some tips for that.

Keep in mind, this was all my first cycle. 2nd cycle was with cypinate and the results were awful. Lost all the weight and more so.... Became angry and irritated, started feeling the spinal pain again.

I am sure my cycles were done wrong, dosages were way off I'm sure... Total noobness, So please no mean comments..

[marcus300]

to the top

[marcus300]

A must read

[marcus300]

to the top

[Java Man]

I'm so fking sick of the Arnold excuse. Kids these days are so quick to jump the gun and be followers rather than leaders.

He also has hundreds of millions and can afford the best treatments available to anyone. Probably some not available to any but the super rich and connected. Can't compare yourself to Arnie unless you plan to go after Mr. O and make a career of this. MO.

[Tonka8]

Great post

[Semageo]

thanks for the advice and especially the plausible explantions

[blayde222]

I need a little help I started my first cycle test E 300 its gonna be 8 week cycle I need to know what to get for pct and should I take anything during cycle

[austinite]

I need a little help I started my first cycle test E 300 its gonna be 8 week cycle I need to know what to get for pct and should I take anything during cycle

Please start a new thread and list all of your stats.

[blayde222]

I need a little help I started my first cycle test E 300 its gonna be 8 week cycle I need to know what to get for pct and should I take anything during cycle

[Sathane]

I'm definitely not 'too young' (34 y/o) so any irreversible changes would be caused by incorrect dosing, correct? Or is there a huge risk regardless?

[ppwc1985]

I'm definitely not 'too young' (34 y/o) so any irreversible changes would be caused by incorrect dosing, correct? Or is there a huge risk regardless?

No, I'm going to throw my story here. I did some oral cycles back in my mid 20's. but never had no problems. Fast forward to jan 2012, to make long story short I did 6 week cycle of var, never had issues back in the day and did not have no problem after this one. Fast forward to June , I found this site so learned I shouldn't do oral only cycle. Mt test was in the 600-700 range before my next cycle which I started in June. 500 mg test cyp ew, 100 mg var Ed liquid stane 12.5 mg Ed. No Hcg . 12 week cycle went very well. Finished, Pct in oct, I just chose novldex. I did not come back right. Started losing energy, added bodyfat, and no ejaculation. I'm 46 now and into my 6 th week of trt for the rest of my life. Like my dr, who is o e of the top guys in trt said, some guys can do gear all their life and they will be fine and others like me messed myself up for 15 lbs Lbm. Was it worth it, HELL NO. I could have added that 15 lbs naturally, but I decided to take a shortcut just like 75% of users. It's not worth it. Stay natural unless you plan on being a pro bodybuilder.

[VzThunder]

Good read mate, thanks for the advice.

[joey8516]

Hey, Marcus I was wondering if you can help me find a Canadian supplier I am 26 and previously ran test e at 500mg-625mg week to week for 12 weeks, I also ran var for 5 weeks at 80mg ED. I I weigh 183 lbs 5'10 BF is at roughly 13-15% I used medistar before but the clen was way underdosed and now that I am going through my cut (coming out of my bulk) I was wondering if someone can PM me or email me a possible canadian supplier.

[austinite]

Hey, Marcus I was wondering if you can help me find a Canadian supplier I am 26 and previously ran test e at 500mg-625mg week to week for 12 weeks, I also ran var for 5 weeks at 80mg ED. I I weigh 183 lbs 5'10 BF is at roughly 13-15% I used medistar before but the clen was way underdosed and now that I am going through my cut (coming out of my bulk) I was wondering if someone can PM me or email me a possible canadian supplier.

Welcome.

This is not a source board. You are 22, posting in the "Young and steroids " and asking for a source. Probably time to stop, think, and read the rules.

[marcus300]

Hey, Marcus I was wondering if you can help me find a Canadian supplier I am 26 and previously ran test e at 500mg-625mg week to week for 12 weeks, I also ran var for 5 weeks at 80mg ED. I I weigh 183 lbs 5'10 BF is at roughly 13-15% I used medistar before but the clen was way underdosed and now that I am going through my cut (coming out of my bulk) I was wondering if someone can PM me or email me a possible canadian supplier.

I'd read the rules and also this thread, thanks