How many f*cking times!!! Grow into your dose!!

[tembe]

Many dont increase kals as they gain and wonder why gains in LBM, strength, overall mass, stop dead.

As Marcus once told me, a 13 stone man has to eat like a 13 stone man, a 14 stone man has to eat like a 14 stone man, 15 stone, 16 stone etc... All the time increasing kals above the new maintenence levels to consistanly gain.

I have found a lot dont do this.

If the scales go up, so should the amount of food your consuming, that may even be on a weekly basis.

exactly...dieting needs change weekly or even more frequently as you reevaluate ur weight...

ppl struggle to understand that..

[Parabolic]

Hmmm interesting thread. I'm about to start organising my first cycle and was of course going to do bog standard 30mg Dbol ed with 500mg test-e, however i'm not unsure what to do.... It seems as if 300-350mg would be a good dose. Whilst I want to gain best possible amount of some size and strength on my first run I also don't want to use too much...

[GetSwole83]

Totally subscribed to this one. Now saying that 250mg of test a week, I have read that if you say took test e it is still active for ~8 days were the studies having the participants inject 1x a week at 250? or two time the typical monday thur at 125?

[baseline_9]

Many dont increase kals as they gain and wonder why gains in LBM, strength, overall mass, stop dead.

As Marcus once told me, a 13 stone man has to eat like a 13 stone man, a 14 stone man has to eat like a 14 stone man, 15 stone, 16 stone etc... All the time increasing kals above the new maintenence levels to consistanly gain.

I have found a lot dont do this.

If the scales go up, so should the amount of food your consuming, that may even be on a weekly basis.

This is so true, and probably where i have failed in the past

[Swifto]

This is so true, and probably where i have failed in the past

Same here.

I think its one of the biggest reason's why gains stop or slow dramatically during the end of a cycle.

[baseline_9]

Same here.

I think its one of the biggest reason's why gains stop or slow dramatically during the end of a cycle.

maybe

I think when on cycle people should be encouraged to eat as many calories as possible (as long as they are clean calories)

Trustme people, it is hard to get fat eating clean, you will be full way before you are fat LOL

[marcus300]

Many dont increase kals as they gain and wonder why gains in LBM, strength, overall mass, stop dead.

As Marcus once told me, a 13 stone man has to eat like a 13 stone man, a 14 stone man has to eat like a 14 stone man, 15 stone, 16 stone etc... All the time increasing kals above the new maintenence levels to consistanly gain.
I have found a lot dont do this.

If the scales go up, so should the amount of food your consuming, that may even be on a weekly basis.

exactly my friend, I remember years back when i was trying to reach a certain weight, each stone to me was so hard to achieve it was driving me crazy, until I looked at everything I put into my mouth. I was eating like a 14 stone man so why would I get to 15stone if i wasnt eating like one! once i adjusted everything to suit my new intended weight i would jump up on the scales, couple this with the way i was cycling and training and i made huge improvements in a short peroid of time but without doubt food is the key to growth. Its simple you want to reach 200-230lbs your going to have to start eating like one.

[Swifto]

exactly my friend, I remember years back when i was trying to reach a certain weight, each stone to me was so hard to achieve it was driving me crazy, until I looked at everything I put into my mouth. I was eating like a 14 stone man so why would I get to 15stone if i wasnt eating like one! once i adjusted everything to suit my new intended weight i would jump up on the scales, couple this with the way i was cycling and training and i made huge improvements in a short peroid of time but without doubt food is the key to growth. Its simple you want to reach 200-230lbs your going to have to start eating like one.

Agreed mate, agreed.

I've just increased my kals and the scales are going up every few days now.

[D7M]

^^^^^^

[HawaiianPride.]

Well this is due for a major bump.

I still can't fathom why guys think it's okay to start 1-2 grams of anabolics on their first run. Most of which I hear (because an expert bodybuilder told me to)

BUMP BUMP BUMP

BUMP BUMP

BUMP..

[HawaiianPride.]

Bump..

[Swifto]

Bump...

[bknoxx]

I have to say great post.. i been trying to find a read like this it helps me alot since i have been researching over and over abt setting up for my 1st cycle wich seems 350mg of test would be the way to go.... cause most i have read all say 500mg test and 30 mg dbol but it seems dbol isnt needed for a 1st cycle really..unless you would want to start off with a kick

[Gruba10]

Good thread and well inputted, although let's not take away the fact that 500 test e each week is considered the norm all over the sites for beginners and that people that have followed this do still make great gains.
As we all know it all depends on commitment with diet workout pct included for results

[bknoxx]

Bump..

[jrun]

I just got done with a first cycle. 6weeks of Sust 250mg/week and Deca 200/mg a week. I started at 178lbs and i'm currently at 193lbs.

Gains--

+1.5inch Shoulders
+1.5inch Chest
+.25inch Bicep
+ 1inch Quads
+.25inch Calves

- .25inches in stomach

Bench press max went up about 45lbs. Just throwing out what my results were for what dosages i took on my first cycle. Not sure if its good/bad or average.

[grumpee]

Ran my first cycle at 400 mgs a week and gained a little over 20 pounds. I'm currently a few weeks into my second cycle and still running 400 mgs a week .

Lots of good info in this thread especially reevaluating your cals on a weekly basis while on cycle

[F-Genetics]

As an example (mistake I made) I used too larger dose when I was 19 years old.

I used 500mg/wk for my first and second. I used AAS far too early (around 180lbs) and got to around 200lbs after 2 cycles.

I then only played with compounds alone to see what side effects I got. I wouldn't count them as cycles per se.

My last cycle was 350mg/wk Test Prop and Dbol 20mg/ED for about 16 weeks. Got to around 220lbs 5"11 10-12% with my diet/training in order.

So I didnt NEED 500mg/wk at all.

350mg/wk Test was plenty and I was 20lbs heavier than I ever was using 500mg/wk.

Then let me ask you this. I was told for my first cycle to do (Pentadex 300) Test 400mg/wk pin it 2x's Mon & Thur. I understand that the 2 pins wk/ is due to the half life of the Test. Now I am new so basically that means 2 pins wk/ at 200mgs to get the 400mg total correct? I'm not a bonehead, and I have done my research. I just don't want to screw up the information I have been given, and in turn myself with too high a dose on my first cycle.

[ithunk]

Many dont increase kals as they gain and wonder why gains in LBM, strength, overall mass, stop dead.

As Marcus once told me, a 13 stone man has to eat like a 13 stone man, a 14 stone man has to eat like a 14 stone man, 15 stone, 16 stone etc... All the time increasing kals above the new maintenence levels to consistanly gain.

I have found a lot dont do this.

If the scales go up, so should the amount of food your consuming, that may even be on a weekly basis.

yes i would think so even with drugs

[Swifto]

Good thread and well inputted, although let's not take away the fact that 500 test e each week is considered the norm all over the sites for beginners and that people that have followed this do still make great gains.
As we all know it all depends on commitment with diet workout pct included for results

500mg/wk is suggested because, most of the time, Enan comes in 250mg/wk and members dont think 250mg/wk is sufficient a sa first cycle, so use 500mg/wk (2x 250mg/wk). 250mg/wk would be the bare minimum for me to suggest, 250-350mg/wk is what I'd suggest.

I just got done with a first cycle. 6weeks of Sust 250mg/week and Deca 200/mg a week. I started at 178lbs and i'm currently at 193lbs.

Gains--

+1.5inch Shoulders
+1.5inch Chest
+.25inch Bicep
+ 1inch Quads
+.25inch Calves

- .25inches in stomach

Bench press max went up about 45lbs. Just throwing out what my results were for what dosages i took on my first cycle. Not sure if its good/bad or average.

Good gains IMO.

Ran my first cycle at 400 mgs a week and gained a little over 20 pounds. I'm currently a few weeks into my second cycle and still running 400 mgs a week .

Lots of good info in this thread especially reevaluating your cals on a weekly basis while on cycle

Nice to hear. You may even be able to use that dose in cycle 3, 4 and 5.

Then let me ask you this. I was told for my first cycle to do (Pentadex 300) Test 400mg/wk pin it 2x's Mon & Thur. I understand that the 2 pins wk/ is due to the half life of the Test. Now I am new so basically that means 2 pins wk/ at 200mgs to get the 400mg total correct? I'm not a bonehead, and I have done my research. I just don't want to screw up the information I have been given, and in turn myself with too high a dose on my first cycle.

What mg/ml is the "Pentadex 300"? I'm guessing 300mg/ml?

[F-Genetics]

Yes you are correct in your assumption. I was also going to throw in Dbol for 3-4 wks at 30-40mgs to kickstart the cycle until the Test (oil) kicked in.

[Swifto]

Yes you are correct in your assumption. I was also going to throw in Dbol for 3-4 wks at 30-40mgs to kickstart the cycle until the Test (oil) kicked in.

No problem in running 300mg/wk. 0.5ml 2x week.

[jimi1]

How would you differentiate the proper dosage between a short ester like prop and a long ester like enanthate ?

I plan on taking 60mg/day prop for my 1st cycle in 2 weeks. I'm 5'11, 190, ~13%

[Swifto]

Bump

[Kelp]

I remember reading this great thread a couple months ago, and i made up my mind to start with a lower then 500mg/week first test cycle.

I am acne prone, so my first cycle will consist of 10 weeks TEST-E , 325mg/ week. I am also running Arimidex .25 E3D.

Keeping in mind this variables, how bad could my acne get? I know it's individual, i had mild acne from 18-21, spots here and there on my forehead and back but nothing severe requiring treatment. I also get acne if i eat simple sugars or dairy. I don't risk ending up like in those anti-AAS ads from that dose+AI, right?

And also, is it a bad idea to start the Adex only from week 2 or so? I'm worried it might dry my joints in the first weeks until test builds up (and i have a history of elbow problems)

Thanks Swifto!

[Swifto]

I remember reading this great thread a couple months ago, and i made up my mind to start with a lower then 500mg/week first test cycle.

I am acne prone, so my first cycle will consist of 10 weeks TEST-E , 325mg/ week. I am also running Arimidex .25 E3D.

Keeping in mind this variables, how bad could my acne get? I know it's individual, i had mild acne from 18-21, spots here and there on my forehead and back but nothing severe requiring treatment. I also get acne if i eat simple sugars or dairy. I don't risk ending up like in those anti-AAS ads from that dose+AI, right?

And also, is it a bad idea to start the Adex only from week 2 or so? I'm worried it might dry my joints in the first weeks until test builds up (and i have a history of elbow problems)

Thanks Swifto!

No, dont start the Arimidex before. It works quickly, just like all other AI's. You do not need stable blood plasma concentrations for it to be effective.

If your prone, which is/was like me when I was 19-20 years old, I'd also have Accutane on hand.

[blacksmoke]

Very interesting!

[Kelp]

If your prone, which is/was like me when I was 19-20 years old, I'd also have Accutane on hand.

Damn... that i can't get locally unfortunately.. Could you please describe how bad was AAS induced acne for you? On face especially...
And when did it peaked, on cycle or during PCT? I really hope mine got more to do with the awful diet i had back then, then hormones..

Thanks man

[Flier]

Ive just gone through allot of trouble getting the gear and would hate to waste a cycle. but If i can gain with only 250mg that would be awesome! less sides i would assume.

So what happened?
Did u run 250 or 500, and what is the result?

[Tigershark]

Nice post Swifto.

[dooie]

Bump!!

[arizona32]

What about when your dosage is dependent on the compounds used? For instance if you want to use deca at 250/mg wk to help with joints, most people say you have to use test at 2:1 ratio. So that means you would have to use the test at 500mg/wk, even if you are ok with test at 300/mg wk.

[Swifto]

What about when your dosage is dependent on the compounds used? For instance if you want to use deca at 250/mg wk to help with joints, most people say you have to use test at 2:1 ratio. So that means you would have to use the test at 500mg/wk, even if you are ok with test at 300/mg wk.

The ratio is a myth from what I have seen.

[Panamera]

Swifto- read the post here- and have read about front loading- and at 500 mg / week say test E, front loading can potentially cause some more severe sides near the end of cycle / make recovery more difficult. At 250-300 mg per week for 10 weeks do you think front loading would actually help make the cycle more effective and overall much safer than 500 without front loading? Say 500 mg week one, 250 weeks 2-10?

[iatiger]

I'm still doing research and learning before I jump in but I received great information from a previous question (info & cycle below). If I were to do my first cycle at 250, I would still split the dose correct? Would lowering test require adjustment of the other doses? Also, has anyone combined the test/preg into one syringe...sterile/no reflux contam of course but saves an extra inj if so. Don't mind either way but trying to figure out supplies too. Much thanks!
------------------
34yo 5-7 160 13%bf
Week 1-10 500mg/wk testosterone cypionate (shot days 1-4)
week 2-10 250iu/wk Pregnyl (shot days 1-4 also)

Post cycle therapy (pct)
Week 13-14 40mg/day nolvadex
Week 13-14 100mg/day clomid

Week 15-16 20mg/day nolvadex
Week 15-16 50mg/day clomid

[Panamera]

bump good questions / info in this- lets keep it going.

[Swifto]

Swifto- read the post here- and have read about front loading- and at 500 mg / week say test E, front loading can potentially cause some more severe sides near the end of cycle / make recovery more difficult. At 250-300 mg per week for 10 weeks do you think front loading would actually help make the cycle more effective and overall much safer than 500 without front loading? Say 500 mg week one, 250 weeks 2-10?

I dont suggest front loading long ester's at all. Both times I have got horrendous acne.

I'm still doing research and learning before I jump in but I received great information from a previous question (info & cycle below). If I were to do my first cycle at 250, I would still split the dose correct? Would lowering test require adjustment of the other doses? Also, has anyone combined the test/preg into one syringe...sterile/no reflux contam of course but saves an extra inj if so. Don't mind either way but trying to figure out supplies too. Much thanks!
------------------
34yo 5-7 160 13%bf
Week 1-10 500mg/wk testosterone cypionate (shot days 1-4)
week 2-10 250iu/wk Pregnyl (shot days 1-4 also)

Post cycle therapy (pct)
Week 13-14 40mg/day nolvadex
Week 13-14 100mg/day clomid

Week 15-16 20mg/day nolvadex
Week 15-16 50mg/day clomid

I think you could get your stats up more by the way, even at 5"7.

You should start on 300-350mg/wk and up it if gains slow or hault. They shouldnt though with the correct diet increasing cals.

PCT needs to be 5-6 weeks, not 3.

[songdog]

Great thread Swifto.I hate seeing a guy recommend a new cycle of 500 mgs.No need.I started out 250 mgs and did great.Back in the 80s.But thats all we ran back then.I agree grow into your dose.

[Kelp]

Swifto, i don't want to derail this thread, one more question regarding acne i promise because you battled acne and did both 500mg and lower cycles.

On a 10 week, 300mg test-E/week along with Adex .25 EOD, do i stand a chance of avoiding bad acne even if i'm prone? Or if i'm going to get it anyway, will it be the same no matter 300mg or higher?

[Swifto]

Swifto, i don't want to derail this thread, one more question regarding acne i promise because you battled acne and did both 500mg and lower cycles.

On a 10 week, 300mg test-E/week along with Adex .25 EOD, do i stand a chance of avoiding bad acne even if i'm prone? Or if i'm going to get it anyway, will it be the same no matter 300mg or higher?

Acne (in my experience) gets worse with doses. The higher the dose the worse it is.

If your prone, like I was, then Accutane is your only option, but I have seen those that are prone to acne in puberty, then dont have a pimple on cycle or during PCT.

You need to find out.

An AI helped me a great deal.