Young people and AAS; demonizing AAS even among AAS users

**rombus** · 01-11-2011, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

bolds

"Not exactly. Its estrogen that is responsible for the closure of epiphyseal growth plates."
- I read that it is testosterone , from Kaplan's USMLE study guide...where did you read it was from estrogen?

"We're not talking about T3 usage here, we're talking about andorgens effects on the HPTA in those wiht under developed HPT-axis's"
- negative feedback is similar for T3 as it is for the sex hormones
- so at what age does the HPT axis fully develop?

"I'm glad you see issues even though you are yet to stick a needle inside your body."
- How do you know I havent stuck a needle in my body yet? Very presumptous.

"So all those that use anabolic steroids should never come off, ever? With that idiotic rationale you think its then ok to use AAS at age's of 17 years old and above! "
- TRT is becoming more and more common. What is wrong with making a decison to sue AAS then,if the PCT does not work out, use TRT. Instead of flaming and using profanity (which you do later), why dont you detail all the reasons why TRT is no good, besides monetary issues?

"Now your sounding stupid. But I already came to that conclusion by reading your first paragraph."
- That is your opinion.

"You've made your bed so f*cking lie in it."
- You're an adult, control your temper or seek anger management resources. Or go and improve your communication skillsto a level where you do not have to use words like f*cken to get your point across.

"This isnt an article. Its a load of garbage by someone thats naive and thinks they know what their talking about."
- More opinions. If you want to properly challnege this, why dont you provide some references? You replies are nothing but rude opinions. It does not help.

**Swifto** · 01-12-2011, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by rombus

"Not exactly. Its estrogen that is responsible for the closure of epiphyseal growth plates."
- I read that it is testosterone, from Kaplan's USMLE study guide...where did you read it was from estrogen?

"We're not talking about T3 usage here, we're talking about andorgens effects on the HPTA in those wiht under developed HPT-axis's"
- negative feedback is similar for T3 as it is for the sex hormones
- so at what age does the HPT axis fully develop?

"I'm glad you see issues even though you are yet to stick a needle inside your body."
- How do you know I havent stuck a needle in my body yet? Very presumptous.

"So all those that use anabolic steroids should never come off, ever? With that idiotic rationale you think its then ok to use AAS at age's of 17 years old and above! "
- TRT is becoming more and more common. What is wrong with making a decison to sue AAS then,if the PCT does not work out, use TRT. Instead of flaming and using profanity (which you do later), why dont you detail all the reasons why TRT is no good, besides monetary issues?

"Now your sounding stupid. But I already came to that conclusion by reading your first paragraph."
- That is your opinion.

"You've made your bed so f*cking lie in it."
- You're an adult, control your temper or seek anger management resources. Or go and improve your communication skillsto a level where you do not have to use words like f*cken to get your point across.

"This isnt an article. Its a load of garbage by someone thats naive and thinks they know what their talking about."
- More opinions. If you want to properly challnege this, why dont you provide some references? You replies are nothing but rude opinions. It does not help.

I'm not going to address all your points as half of them are a waste of time. But here is a full paper on Effects of estrogen on growth plate senescence and epiphyseal fusionin rabbits. Take my word for it this is exactly the same for humans.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC34445/

Actually, to quote from that particular paper:

In some mammals, including humans, the growth plate is resorbed at the time of sexual maturation. This process, epiphyseal fusion, terminates longitudinal bone growth. Estrogen is pivotal for epiphyseal fusion in both young men and women (10). This key role for estrogen was confirmed only recently with the recognition of two genetic disorders, estrogen deficiency due to mutations in the aromatase gene (11) and estrogen resistance due to mutations in the estrogen receptor-α gene (12). In both conditions, the growth plate fails to fuse and growth persists into adulthood. Conversely, premature estrogen exposure, e.g., precocious puberty, leads to premature epiphyseal fusion (13).

Rhombus, stick to your silly "Kaplan's USMLE study guide".

You have a lot of learning to do kid.

Another one bites the dust.

**manveer1** · 01-11-2011, 07:58 PM

Im not going to lie to your ''rhombus',im not going to sit on the fence you do have some very valid points in what you are saying. However IMO the most important thing to consider about AAS is the side affects, and you didnt respond to how Swifto countered what you said in terms of being messed up after one cycle ... ''One thing I get a lot of is user's ranging from 17-25 years old who have done ONE CYCLE and are still f*cked up (HPTA) months down the line after doing PCT's of many kinds. Read that again. ONE CYCLE, their first cycle and have NOT recovered at all. Their complaints range from little energy, lethargy, strength and LMB decreasing, fat gain, labido loss and more importantly and embarressingly at that age, erectile dysfunction''
This IMO is the most important point Swifto countered you on , but you didnt comment about this? Why was that?
However like i said you do have some decent points e.g. guy juicing when hes 15 then ridiculing you for what you said, plus some of the unecessary comments people have posted. But I would like to see what you have to say about Swiftos comment, the guy has helped me and tons of other people out TONS of times. A lot of the other stuff you and Swifto have disagreed about is pointless imo or no where near as important than the paragraph i quoted from swifto which you didnt comment upon.

**dec11** · 01-11-2011, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by manveer1

Im not going to lie to your ''rhombus',im not going to sit on the fence you do have some very valid points in what you are saying. However IMO the most important thing to consider about AAS is the side affects, and you didnt respond to how Swifto countered what you said in terms of being messed up after one cycle ... ''One thing I get a lot of is user's ranging from 17-25 years old who have done ONE CYCLE and are still f*cked up (HPTA) months down the line after doing PCT's of many kinds. Read that again. ONE CYCLE, their first cycle and have NOT recovered at all. Their complaints range from little energy, lethargy, strength and LMB decreasing, fat gain, labido loss and more importantly and embarressingly at that age, erectile dysfunction''
This IMO is the most important point Swifto countered you on , but you didnt comment about this? Why was that?
However like i said you do have some decent points e.g. guy juicing when hes 15 then ridiculing you for what you said, plus some of the unecessary comments people have posted. But I would like to see what you have to say about Swiftos comment, the guy has helped me and tons of other people out TONS of times. A lot of the other stuff you and Swifto have disagreed about is pointless imo or no where near as important than the paragraph i quoted from swifto which you didnt comment upon.

because he's clueless, seriously, do not take advice from this guy. swifto knows his stuff and has helped repeatidly and can back up everything he says. this other clown prefers to advise youngsters to take gear because they will prob end up on trt anyway, absolutely incredulous, do not entertain him if your wise

**stevey_6t9** · 01-11-2011, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by dec11

because he's clueless, seriously, do not take advice from this guy. swifto knows his stuff and has helped repeatidly and can back up everything he says. this other clown prefers to advise youngsters to take gear because they will prob end up on trt anyway, absolutely incredulous, do not entertain him if your wise

It's fine he has been banned for giving reckless advice... it you read this rombus, you need to take a hard look at your logics behind all you have said previously, hope u find another board to to give all your aas knowledge to. lol

**dec11** · 01-11-2011, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by stevey_6t9

It's fine he has been banned for giving reckless advice... it you read this rombus, you need to take a hard look at your logics behind all you have said previously, hope u find another board to to give all your aas knowledge to. lol

yeah lol, he's been nailed on the head within the last 30mins. another one bites the dust

**rombus** · 01-11-2011, 08:10 PM

In my first post, I pointed out that TRT is inevitable (similar to how ERT is indicated for women after menopause now). Whether you go on TRT now or later in life is immaterial. So the solution to the problem of having 1 cycle then having all those side effects is TRT. So yes, I undertsand this is a potentially life long commmitment, and users shoudl be aware of this potential outcome.

With regards to why TRT is any less than natrual production..it isnt, per se. The issuecomes down to the fact that TRT is a testsoterone replacemnt therpay, which does not address the issue of LH, FSH negative feedback since this is an exogenous souce. Both these problems can be solved with replacment therpay for those as well, when adn only when the TRT patient decides they want to have children. Otehrwise, it isnt that much of an issue aside from having to spend money on meds.

**rombus** · 01-11-2011, 08:26 PM

Look, if you are on AAS, there is going ot be a risk that your HTPA axis will be hampered for a long time. This doesnt matter whether you are 24 or 44. The only difference is that at 24, your HPTA would likley be stil very good, whereas when you are older, it will funciton worse than if you were 24. So to start AAS young and potentially ruin that naturally healthy HPTA woud be a waste. But either way, when you age, your HPTA activity would decline, AAS or no. People who are older taking AAS will still have the risk of their HPTA shutting down. AAS or no, TRT would be indicated whenever your test levels are low. So when exactly you want to embark on the TRT to solve that issue is just an issue of how much money you`d want to spend.

Does this...clear things up

**38jumper38** · 01-11-2011, 09:56 PM

and how old is CMB? 16? 17?

**dec11** · 01-12-2011, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by 38jumper38

and how old is CMB? 16? 17?

yeah, this clown needs it next, fookin advising 1st timers to use kickstarts and letro etc,

**PistolStarta** · 01-12-2011, 08:46 AM

Also the pill serves a purpose and has been through hundreds of tests. Comparing that to steroids is quite different regardless of them both effecting hormones.

**stevey_6t9** · 01-12-2011, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by dec11

yeah, this clown needs it next, fookin advising 1st timers to use kickstarts and letro etc,

haha ban hammer coming his way too.

**marcus300** · 01-12-2011, 07:00 AM

Some people should keep their mouth shut if they have no idea what they are waffling on about, hahaha now look what happened,

**boz** · 01-12-2011, 07:05 AM

^ Some ppl like to learn the hard way. Unforunately they still dont ahahah

**PistolStarta** · 01-12-2011, 08:44 AM

I ran Spawn at only 22 years of age, and thought I had it all set. Researched abit and ran Adex all through with liv.52 then ran a Novadex XT PCT. Now to say this is my own fault for insufficient PCT isnt true. I followed the bottles instructions and read in several places this would be enough. I only ran 4 weeks, and ran a relativelt mild dose to what Ive seen. Gained 16lbs. Couldnt maintain an erection after and had problems for close to a year after (really bad for about 4 months, soft and short erections). Only after I ran a Test cycle at 24, with a full PCT did I feel okay again.

**AlphaMaleDawg** · 01-12-2011, 11:30 AM

banning him a crappy move. god forbid he has his own opinion

**dec11** · 01-12-2011, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by AlphaMaleDawg

banning him a crappy move. god forbid he has his own opinion

how was it crappy? he was advising youngsters to use tren etc. he was a stupid kid and none of us can be bothered with it

**Swifto** · 01-12-2011, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by AlphaMaleDawg

banning him a crappy move. god forbid he has his own opinion

You want to explain to the staff here why its a "crappy move"?

**dec11** · 01-12-2011, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

You want to explain to the staff here why its a "crappy move"?

im guessin silence here.........

**RapaciousShark** · 01-12-2011, 10:16 PM

this reminds me of two things that shock me in daily life

1) Some people are so obstinately illogical. They make hasty conclusions and dig up absurd rhetoric to prove them. What shocks me is that they are too mentally costive to realize just how f***ing stupid what they're saying really is. You can't reason with them.
2) People have zero respect for real knowledge and experience. It is ineffably arrogant for a layman to read this and that and go on to challenge views before even examining their reasoning, esp. views from credible authorities. It's like reading an article on ancient Egypt then challenging an Egyptologist. You would have to think everyone else, even the educated Egyptologist, is way inferior to you.

In short, OP is an arrogant retard.