Young people and AAS; demonizing AAS even among AAS users

[rombus]

Having spent a few years looking at various AAS forums I have noticed a pattern: vets frown upon younger people taking AAS.

I disagree with that attitude, unless the person in question still going through puberty, which ends about age 17 for males. DUring puberty, testosterone (and specifically testosterone) can result in premature closure of epiphyseal plates (ends of your bones so they dont grow longer, and thus stunting your height).

But for people aged 19? Come on. I hear vets saying "you can ruin your sex life forever" "youll get hurt". Can you ruin your sex life forever? WIll you get hurt?
These types of comments are very patronizing and shows very little respect for the intelligence of young people.

The most pressing concern vets have is that the usage of AAS would result in negative feedback and that may never disappear. First that is a myth. ESPECIALLY with regards to T3 usage; the degree of negative feedback is DIRECTLY related to how much you take, that is, takign too much and too long will NOT result in permanent shut down. Same applies to other hormonal usage.

Second, the issue of 'getting hurt' is quite vague and just seems like 'I dont wnan abother explaining myself' attitude. The main issues with AAS usage is liver toxicity and cardiac problems. The liver toxicity is only really a threat when takign orals, but given that alcohol and paracetamol are probably even more liver toxic, I do not see why people continue to demonize AAS in terms of liver damage. When takign orals, just monitor your liver enzymes carefully and come off if it gets out of hand. One issue vets dont tend to see is cardiac probelms, which worries me a bit more than liver issues. Cardiac problems coming from potential polycythemia and increased blood pressure. These raise the risk of sudden cardiac death and over the long term, ventricular damage.

With regards to coming off cycle and not knowing to to apply PCT, etc. I think that is a load of rubbish. Your body's natural hormonal output will decrease over time regardless of AAS or not. TRT is becoming increasingly popular, although still stigmatized by the unintelligent decisions of the US's attitudes towards AAS usage. Eventually, all males will benefit from TRT. Whether your testosterone comes naturally or from TRT doesnt make a difference. So, NEVER coming off (say a maintenance dosage of 200mg/wk of test) is not a bad idea because that IS the inevitable result anyway.

So instead of turning younger people and new people away why not provide them with information and inform them properly and letting them make their own choices instead of being so arrogant, elitist and patronizing? People arent stupid, and if they are, that isnt our problem as long as we provided the proper information for them.

One thing people fail to see is that when a person recieves a comment like this: "no source checks until you are 200lbs and 6% bodyfat" may drive people to making poetntially dangerous purhcases (ie contaminated vials, fake gear, misdosed gear, etc). It is like making something illegal, driving its sale underground, makign it even more dangerous.

This article may seem different, but I am a medical student and it is the attitude that the medical community takes..and the key word is AUTONOMY. Paternalism is what doctors did in the past.

Take ...a 15 year old who wants to pruhcase birth control pills. A doctor wll not say: 'youre too young, stay away from drugs and dont have sex'. No. The doctor will test to see if the 15 yo undertsands the pros and cons of usage etc and then letting them decide. If they are deemed competant, then the pill is prescribed.

Let's move forward..not backwards.

[yeahbuddy289]

agreed

[Far from massive]

Totally disagree,

If the person seeks information on why they should not use steroids at a young age that information is all over this website. From your post I can only assume you have not done much research here since you don't even debate the reasons or issues generally cited for young people not using steroids till they are 25. If someone really wants information on AAS its all here all they have to do is take the time to peruse it, there is no realistic way for the powers that be to stop them, if they seek a guided personalized tour on steroids there are plenty of websites that will provide that information to them. Perhaps you should start another one if you feel there is a need for more information for youngsters to use AAS.

PS as far as your idea that "Whether your testosterone comes naturally or from TRT doesnt make a difference." if you are a medical student you might wanna keep that one to yourself, I am not sure your proffesors would agree....

[Tigershark]

These types of threads are getting old. There are specific reasons why we do not give advice to the young. Try doing some research or reading through some posts about this subject for demonizing us. Sheeesh

[stevey_6t9]

Age: 29
Height: 5'9
Weight: 180lbs
bf: 15%
Cycles: 3
Total Weight training time spent: 5 years

3 cycles and 180lbs?? and having the audacity to go on here and give out dangerous advice like that?

[JohnnyVegas]

I enjoy reading medical student's opinions here as much as I love reading engineering and law student's views on other forums. We never know as much as we do in the beginning. I don't know enough to take a stand on either side of this debate, but I will say that if you stick around (and I hope you do) you will see the kind of questions that young people ask, how little patience they have and what little concern they have for their health.

Never mind the fact that there are ethical issues with encouraging a young person to engage in possible illicit activities.

[DBolNoob]

the never ending debate . . . . . . . .

[rombus]

Totally disagree,

If the person seeks information on why they should not use steroids at a young age that information is all over this website. From your post I can only assume you have not done much research here since you don't even debate the reasons or issues generally cited for young people not using steroids till they are 25. If someone really wants information on AAS its all here all they have to do is take the time to peruse it, there is no realistic way for the powers that be to stop them, if they seek a guided personalized tour on steroids there are plenty of websites that will provide that information to them. Perhaps you should start another one if you feel there is a need for more information for youngsters to use AAS.

PS as far as your idea that "Whether your testosterone comes naturally or from TRT doesnt make a difference." if you are a medical student you might wanna keep that one to yourself, I am not sure your proffesors would agree....

The difference is that testosterone puts neg feeback on FSH and LH as well. So your sperm count will decrease. But THAT can be supplemented as well. So tehcncialy if everything is replaced, there shoudnt be problems, the only being cost of the medication and hassle of administration.

[rombus]

3 cycles and 180lbs?? and having the audacity to go on here and give out dangerous advice like that?

Did I mentioned I started at 110lbs? I think 70lbs is good progress, also given my body type. How many lbs did you gain with 3 cycles?

[rombus]

I enjoy reading medical student's opinions here as much as I love reading engineering and law student's views on other forums. We never know as much as we do in the beginning. I don't know enough to take a stand on either side of this debate, but I will say that if you stick around (and I hope you do) you will see the kind of questions that young people ask, how little patience they have and what little concern they have for their health.

Never mind the fact that there are ethical issues with encouraging a young person to engage in possible illicit activities.

You know...in fact I did stick around a bit more and read some posts by youger memners and I have to say that I was shocked at how little (if ANY) research they did before they asked questions. Im starting to think whether my post was misplaced. I mean sometimes people are just REALLy really stupid ie, "will HCG raise my testosterone levels ??" or "I heard taking T3 for more than 3 weeks will permanently shut you down"

[stevey_6t9]

Did I mentioned I started at 110lbs? I think 70lbs is good progress, also given my body type. How many lbs did you gain with 3 cycles?

i started at that weight to and im your height, and i got up to over 190 before i touched gear. im 210 now after my first cycle... btw im only 19, and even myself would never encourage anyone my age to cycle, because it is irresponsible... i came off lucky, all i see here is your justification for kids to use steroids .

[rombus]

i started at that weight to and im your height, and i got up to over 190 before i touched gear. im 210 now after my first cycle... btw im only 19, and even myself would never encourage anyone my age to cycle, because it is irresponsible... i came off lucky, all i see here is your justification for kids to use steroids.

So is there a specific amoutn of lbs one person has to gain on a particular cycle to be considered successful? is everyone's body the same or?

[rombus]

And also I amnot 'encouraging' young people to go on AAS, what Im saying is that if they are going to go on it, help them do it safely instead of just saying 'you're 21 too young'. Do you think that a dismissive comment like that will be helpful? What it will do is turn them to tehir buddies who may not have much knowledge as we do.

[rombus]

i started at that weight to and im your height, and i got up to over 190 before i touched gear. im 210 now after my first cycle... btw im only 19, and even myself would never encourage anyone my age to cycle, because it is irresponsible... i came off lucky, all i see here is your justification for kids to use steroids.

But yeah congratulations on your ganis becausequite frankly 80lb gain naturally is pretty good. Im also curous though...if you are 19 now...when did you start weight training? Did you forget to factor in the fact that you probably grew in height as well. If you are 210lbs at a low bf after your first cycle then you REALLY have good genetics. Because arnold was only 235lbs at 6'3. So really, please dont judge others based on your own progress because not everyone has the same potential for growth.

[stevey_6t9]

But yeah congratulations on your ganis becausequite frankly 80lb gain naturally is pretty good. Im also curous though...if you are 19 now...when did you start weight training? Did you forget to factor in the fact that you probably grew in height as well. If you are 210lbs at a low bf after your first cycle then you REALLY have good genetics. Because arnold was only 235lbs at 6'3. So really, please dont judge others based on your own progress because not everyone has the same potential for growth.

im not comparing myself to you... im comparing your knowledge you have in this game to to the knowledge of alot of vets on here who have been in the game a hell alot longer then you have... you have what been training what 5 years and are 180lbs? How does that justify yourself into saying never coming off aas is fine, or tell teenagers how to cycle?.... people here like marcus300 have seen it first hand what long term aas use and early age aas use can do to people... that first hand experience you lack in no way allows you to make statements like you have previously.

[marcus300]

I was going to write lengthy post but I think steve69 has hit every point and thats coming from someone young, usually experience shines through when giving advice on steroids and the young but sometimes maturity and knowledge can come a good second best, good posts stevey

[DBolNoob]

And also I amnot 'encouraging' young people to go on AAS, what Im saying is that if they are going to go on it, help them do it safely instead of just saying 'you're 21 too young'. Do you think that a dismissive comment like that will be helpful? What it will do is turn them to tehir buddies who may not have much knowledge as we do.

IMHO its better to support someone if their goin to do it anyway, then let them go ask their thick friends about it.

people need to stop hating on those who dont fit a certain 'category' where its ok to take AAS.

with that being said, you need to be hard on the newbies who show no maturity and just want to be in and out with the minimal knowledge
on AAS so they can start their cycle.

so i think both is needed.

be hard on those who show no interest in learning, and guide the mature ones who want to learn, because at the end of the day, no-one here owes anyone anything.
so unless you put the time into research, you dont deserve quality, detailed responses and guidance in MY opinion.

[dec11]

oh dear, the latest influx of kiddies are out to play..............

[38jumper38]

I support the vets opinion, there is a reason for that. That's why at 19 they call you a kid, not a vet..................and please continuing doing AAS as much you can get your hands on it, will see you around here in 10 years with different opinion....

[dec11]

Having spent a few years looking at various AAS forums I have noticed a pattern: vets frown upon younger people taking AAS.

I disagree with that attitude, unless the person in question still going through puberty, which ends about age 17 for males. DUring puberty, testosterone (and specifically testosterone) can result in premature closure of epiphyseal plates (ends of your bones so they dont grow longer, and thus stunting your height).

But for people aged 19? Come on. I hear vets saying "you can ruin your sex life forever" "youll get hurt". Can you ruin your sex life forever? WIll you get hurt?
These types of comments are very patronizing and shows very little respect for the intelligence of young people.

The most pressing concern vets have is that the usage of AAS would result in negative feedback and that may never disappear. First that is a myth. ESPECIALLY with regards to T3 usage; the degree of negative feedback is DIRECTLY related to how much you take, that is, takign too much and too long will NOT result in permanent shut down. Same applies to other hormonal usage.

Second, the issue of 'getting hurt' is quite vague and just seems like 'I dont wnan abother explaining myself' attitude. The main issues with AAS usage is liver toxicity and cardiac problems. The liver toxicity is only really a threat when takign orals, but given that alcohol and paracetamol are probably even more liver toxic, I do not see why people continue to demonize AAS in terms of liver damage. When takign orals, just monitor your liver enzymes carefully and come off if it gets out of hand. One issue vets dont tend to see is cardiac probelms, which worries me a bit more than liver issues. Cardiac problems coming from potential polycythemia and increased blood pressure. These raise the risk of sudden cardiac death and over the long term, ventricular damage.

With regards to coming off cycle and not knowing to to apply PCT, etc. I think that is a load of rubbish. Your body's natural hormonal output will decrease over time regardless of AAS or not. TRT is becoming increasingly popular, although still stigmatized by the unintelligent decisions of the US's attitudes towards AAS usage. Eventually, all males will benefit from TRT. Whether your testosterone comes naturally or from TRT doesnt make a difference. So, NEVER coming off (say a maintenance dosage of 200mg/wk of test) is not a bad idea because that IS the inevitable result anyway.

So instead of turning younger people and new people away why not provide them with information and inform them properly and letting them make their own choices instead of being so arrogant, elitist and patronizing? People arent stupid, and if they are, that isnt our problem as long as we provided the proper information for them.

One thing people fail to see is that when a person recieves a comment like this: "no source checks until you are 200lbs and 6% bodyfat" may drive people to making poetntially dangerous purhcases (ie contaminated vials, fake gear, misdosed gear, etc). It is like making something illegal, driving its sale underground, makign it even more dangerous.

This article may seem different, but I am a medical student and it is the attitude that the medical community takes..and the key word is AUTONOMY. Paternalism is what doctors did in the past.

Take ...a 15 year old who wants to pruhcase birth control pills. A doctor wll not say: 'youre too young, stay away from drugs and dont have sex'. No. The doctor will test to see if the 15 yo undertsands the pros and cons of usage etc and then letting them decide. If they are deemed competant, then the pill is prescribed.

Let's move forward..not backwards.

sorry but alot of what youve written is circumstancial 'what if' bollocks

[gymnerd]

Well,I wont even get into the science of it. First- under 21 years olds are too immature to juice plain and simple, they dont know anything yet and think they think they are invincible as it is. Also if you cannot make gains at that age you are doing it wrong! Learn how to train and eat right you do not need anabolics at that age its stupid.

When I was training at that age I was in a group that juiced and the older guys would never let me touch the stuff because they knew I needed to learn how to train first. Kid at the gym made a comment about wanting steroids at prob 20 yrs old. These kids are just starting to learn how to squat, bench press, and dealif correctly and they want AAS? Dont even make sense to me.

IDK what age is best, hell I really dont think hardly anyone should be doing them. One thing is clear to me 19 is too friggen young no matter how nice of an arguement you make.

[dec11]

3 cycles and 180lbs?? and having the audacity to go on here and give out dangerous advice like that?

im guessing that this idiot is alot less than 29, more like 18 and has had three cycles on a bmx

[stevey_6t9]

IMHO its better to support someone if their goin to do it anyway, then let them go ask their thick friends about it.

people need to stop hating on those who dont fit a certain 'category' where its ok to take AAS.

with that being said, you need to be hard on the newbies who show no maturity and just want to be in and out with the minimal knowledge
on AAS so they can start their cycle.

so i think both is needed.

be hard on those who show no interest in learning, and guide the mature ones who want to learn, because at the end of the day, no-one here owes anyone anything.
so unless you put the time into research, you dont deserve quality, detailed responses and guidance in MY opinion.

weren't you the one also who is 18,weighs 140lbs and is cycling too? fuk people give my age bracket a bad image here.

[auslifta]

im guessing that this idiot is alot less than 29, more like 18 and has had three cycles on a bmx

I was thinking the same thing. I wrote out this long post but didn't bother to go through with it. I don't have the capacity to put up with this shiit anymore. He writes like an 18yo and defends young users. Med student haha don't think so. First he says males stop puberty at 17 then says stevey prob gained weight through height growth at 18/19. He gives dangerous advice such as recommending tren to an 18yo. people like this should be banned on spot for that rubbish.

[dec11]

I was thinking the same thing. I wrote out this long post but didn't bother to go through with it. I don't have the capacity to put up with this shiit anymore. He writes like an 18yo and defends young users. Med student haha don't think so. First he says males stop puberty at 17 then says stevey prob gained weight through height growth at 18/19. He gives dangerous advice such as recommending tren to an 18yo. people like this should be banned on spot for that rubbish.

i totally agree

[D.Pump]

I was thinking the same thing. I wrote out this long post but didn't bother to go through with it. I don't have the capacity to put up with this shiit anymore. He writes like an 18yo and defends young users. Med student haha don't think so. First he says males stop puberty at 17 then says stevey prob gained weight through height growth at 18/19. He gives dangerous advice such as recommending tren to an 18yo. people like this should be banned on spot for that rubbish.

didnt you know forum membership also includes a free internet doctor certificate

[chuckt12345]

think its more about being mature enough to handle it and do it right than hormonal.

[marcus300]

weren't you the one also who is 18,weighs 140lbs and is cycling too? fuk people give my age bracket a bad image here.

I know, he is a real assest around here pushing his uneducated views

[DBolNoob]

weren't you the one also who is 18,weighs 140lbs and is cycling too? fuk people give my age bracket a bad image here.

your full of shit, if you actually read any of my posts and not just select the bits you want, you will realise im not taking AAS, just looking into it.
and youve actually done AAS so shut up you hypocryte.

[DBolNoob]

I know, he is a real assest around here pushing his uneducated views

what is uneducated on what i just said? especially that its my own opinion only i can be educated enough to give it as its MY opinion, obviously not yours.

im saying be tough on those who dont want to learn and do its safely, and be helpful to those who want to learn.

you need to stop hating and jumping the gun.

[dec11]

i see a few kiddies being shown the naughty step soon lol

[marcus300]

your full of shit, if you actually read any of my posts and not just select the bits you want, you will realise im not taking AAS, just looking into it.
and youve actually done AAS so shut up you hypocryte.

no flamming , it can get you banned,

[marcus300]

your full of shit, if you actually read any of my posts and not just select the bits you want, you will realise im not taking AAS, just looking into it.
and youve actually done AAS so shut up you hypocryte.

no flamming , it can get you banned,

[Swifto]

Having spent a few years looking at various AAS forums I have noticed a pattern: vets frown upon younger people taking AAS.

Thats correct.

I disagree with that attitude, unless the person in question still going through puberty, which ends about age 17 for males. DUring puberty, testosterone (and specifically testosterone) can result in premature closure of epiphyseal plates (ends of your bones so they dont grow longer, and thus stunting your height).

Not exactly. Its estrogen that is responsible for the closure of epiphyseal growth plates.

Puberty does not also finish at "17 years of age". Where an earth did you read that?

But for people aged 19? Come on. I hear vets saying "you can ruin your sex life forever" "youll get hurt". Can you ruin your sex life forever? WIll you get hurt?
These types of comments are very patronizing and shows very little respect for the intelligence of young people.

Your not intelligent at all, dont get confused. Your naive and know little on this subject at hand.

I have been answering PM's daily from user's from 16 years of age right up to those in their 50-60's on questions regarding PCT protocol's and the HPTA for a fair few years now.

One thing I get a lot of is user's ranging from 17-25 years old who have done ONE CYCLE and are still f*cked up (HPTA) months down the line after doing PCT's of many kinds. Read that again. ONE CYCLE, their first cycle and have NOT recovered at all. Their complaints range from little energy, lethargy, strength and LMB decreasing, fat gain, labido loss and more importantly and embarressingly at that age, erectile dysfunction.

The most pressing concern vets have is that the usage of AAS would result in negative feedback and that may never disappear. First that is a myth. ESPECIALLY with regards to T3 usage; the degree of negative feedback is DIRECTLY related to how much you take, that is, takign too much and too long will NOT result in permanent shut down. Same applies to other hormonal usage.

Its not myth, read above.

We're not talking about T3 usage here, we're talking about andorgens effects on the HPTA in those wiht under developed HPT-axis's.

Second, the issue of 'getting hurt' is quite vague and just seems like 'I dont wnan abother explaining myself' attitude. The main issues with AAS usage is liver toxicity and cardiac problems. The liver toxicity is only really a threat when takign orals, but given that alcohol and paracetamol are probably even more liver toxic, I do not see why people continue to demonize AAS in terms of liver damage. When takign orals, just monitor your liver enzymes carefully and come off if it gets out of hand. One issue vets dont tend to see is cardiac probelms, which worries me a bit more than liver issues. Cardiac problems coming from potential polycythemia and increased blood pressure. These raise the risk of sudden cardiac death and over the long term, ventricular damage.

Hepatoxicity is over rated, yes.

Cardiac problems are a worry, but I know of no cases where user's have dropped DEAD directly from AAS usage. Key word: usage, not ABUSE.

I'm glad you see issues even though you are yet to stick a needle inside your body.

With regards to coming off cycle and not knowing to to apply PCT, etc. I think that is a load of rubbish. Your body's natural hormonal output will decrease over time regardless of AAS or not. TRT is becoming increasingly popular, although still stigmatized by the unintelligent decisions of the US's attitudes towards AAS usage. Eventually, all males will benefit from TRT. Whether your testosterone comes naturally or from TRT doesnt make a difference. So, NEVER coming off (say a maintenance dosage of 200mg/wk of test) is not a bad idea because that IS the inevitable result anyway.

So all those that use anabolic steroids should never come off, ever? With that idiotic rationale you think its then ok to use AAS at age's of 17 years old and above!

Now your sounding stupid. But I already came to that conclusion by reading your first paragraph.

So instead of turning younger people and new people away why not provide them with information and inform them properly and letting them make their own choices instead of being so arrogant, elitist and patronizing? People arent stupid, and if they are, that isnt our problem as long as we provided the proper information for them.

You complain that those "in the know" dont educate you more naive user's but are of the opinion "Vets across the community" are all of the same opionin (paragraph 1/2) we are, "..very patronizing and show very little respect for the intelligence of young people.".

Seems to me like you dont like what others are telling you kiddo.

One thing people fail to see is that when a person recieves a comment like this: "no source checks until you are 200lbs and 6% bodyfat" may drive people to making poetntially dangerous purhcases (ie contaminated vials, fake gear, misdosed gear, etc). It is like making something illegal, driving its sale underground, makign it even more dangerous.

There is a reason why we more experienced guy's give that advice. If you dont like it your more than welcome to go against it and what you then do is UP TO YOU. If that means, "...contaminated vials, fake gear, misdosed gear, etc)." You've made your bed so f*cking lie in it.

This article may seem different, but I am a medical student and it is the attitude that the medical community takes..and the key word is AUTONOMY. Paternalism is what doctors did in the past.

This isnt an article. Its a load of garbage by someone thats naive and thinks they know what their talking about.

Take ...a 15 year old who wants to pruhcase birth control pills. A doctor wll not say: 'youre too young, stay away from drugs and dont have sex'. No. The doctor will test to see if the 15 yo undertsands the pros and cons of usage etc and then letting them decide. If they are deemed competant, then the pill is prescribed.

Let's move forward..not backwards.

You have a lot to learn young Skywalker.

bolds

[JohnnyVegas]

didnt you know forum membership also includes a free internet doctor certificate

I have not received mine in the mail...is there a place I can download it? It is sure to impress my wife.

[38jumper38]

You may have the wrong address, when you filled your application, because "rombus"is pretty sure on his degreed.

[CMB]

I did my first cycle when I was 15. Didn't notice any sides really. I was educated (to a certain extent) on pct and recovery and all came out well and ever since then my gains have been amazing. If there is one thing that is interesting about my case is that it was only when I started juicing that I got serious about dieting and training.

Just wanted to add that in here. But please, nobody listen to this babbling idiot. I'm not sure what he was trying to accomplish by typing that out but I'm guessing it miserably failed.

[AlphaMaleDawg]

I completely agree with everything the op said, and I started at 24, which isn't young

[rombus]

bolds

"Not exactly. Its estrogen that is responsible for the closure of epiphyseal growth plates."
- I read that it is testosterone , from Kaplan's USMLE study guide...where did you read it was from estrogen?

"We're not talking about T3 usage here, we're talking about andorgens effects on the HPTA in those wiht under developed HPT-axis's"
- negative feedback is similar for T3 as it is for the sex hormones
- so at what age does the HPT axis fully develop?

"I'm glad you see issues even though you are yet to stick a needle inside your body."
- How do you know I havent stuck a needle in my body yet? Very presumptous.

"So all those that use anabolic steroids should never come off, ever? With that idiotic rationale you think its then ok to use AAS at age's of 17 years old and above! "
- TRT is becoming more and more common. What is wrong with making a decison to sue AAS then,if the PCT does not work out, use TRT. Instead of flaming and using profanity (which you do later), why dont you detail all the reasons why TRT is no good, besides monetary issues?


"Now your sounding stupid. But I already came to that conclusion by reading your first paragraph."
- That is your opinion.

"You've made your bed so f*cking lie in it."
- You're an adult, control your temper or seek anger management resources. Or go and improve your communication skillsto a level where you do not have to use words like f*cken to get your point across.

"This isnt an article. Its a load of garbage by someone thats naive and thinks they know what their talking about."
- More opinions. If you want to properly challnege this, why dont you provide some references? You replies are nothing but rude opinions. It does not help.

[rombus]

I did my first cycle when I was 15. Didn't notice any sides really. I was educated (to a certain extent) on pct and recovery and all came out well and ever since then my gains have been amazing. If there is one thing that is interesting about my case is that it was only when I started juicing that I got serious about dieting and training.

Just wanted to add that in here. But please, nobody listen to this babbling idiot. I'm not sure what he was trying to accomplish by typing that out but I'm guessing it miserably failed.

So you started young and you're fine correct? So why are you discouraging others from donig the same? Your logic is flawed.

"But please, nobody listen to this babbling idiot." -- immature hostility like this doesnt get you anywhere in life.