help a novice out

[Alyn]

Matt....we need heavier ammo.
Release dec11 back into the community
He must be hungry...

Sounds exciting
Look, i really want you to show me hard facts that the possibility of me being permantly damaged is high, iv done research and couldnt find any, just POSSIBILITIES, i was extremly against them before i started researching. If i can learn something new then this thread in my eyes will have been a success, im all for learning new things

[Matt]

Matt....we need heavier ammo.
Release dec11 back into the community
He must be hungry...

You know with that diet he's just posted, his stats and his attitude i believe he is a troll, this just has to be some kind of joke, maybe its dec11 testing us..

[dru23]

Sounds exciting
Look, i really want you to show me hard facts that the possibility of me being permantly damaged is high, iv done research and couldnt find any, just POSSIBILITIES, i was extremly against them before i started researching. If i can learn something new then this thread in my eyes will have been a success, im all for learning new things

Lol! Possibilities...if you eat rat poison you could get I'll or die. That's just a possibility, does that mean a fat person should ingest it because of it's weight losing properties because the chance of getting severely I'll or dying is just that...a possibility? Lol. I am a hard fact, I'm telling you that at 26, I have very low natural test levels, and that direct stems from me cycling (responsibly) at age 19. Sure it's a POSSIBILITY this won't happen to you...but your test levels right now are what we are trying to reach by taking it. That's what you're not understanding. There is no need.

[scorpion62]

Again this is where you are lacking..

Tell me as you've read all the articles, what will happen to your hpta when taking 250mgs of test as apposed to 500mgs????

Answer Matts question

[Flier]

Sounds exciting
Look, i really want you to show me hard facts that the possibility of me being permantly damaged is high, iv done research and couldnt find any, just POSSIBILITIES, i was extremly against them before i started researching. If i can learn something new then this thread in my eyes will have been a success, im all for learning new things

Do you mean actual case studies?
Where 17 year old subjects were given 250mgs, 500mgs , and some placibo Testosterone , over a 10 week period. With a study of side effects for the next 20 years? The only one, and last attempt I think was Dr. Mengele in 1940´s., and those records were destroyed.
So I think I can´t find any hard facts.....I think you won!!!
Good luck!!

[Alyn]

Why do i come across as a troll? What is wrong with my diet? its got me from 130lbs to 160lbs in less than a year with minimal fat gains, i actually thing im at a lower bf% now that i was before i started

I cant find any studies showing difference between the 2, however i know results with testosterone are dose depandant, so im guessing the 500mg will have a bigger impact than 250mg

Before asking me questions, some of you have said some pretty dull things. eg producing enough test naturally, no i cannot produce the amount of which steroids could offer me, anyone believing that is rediculous, otherwise everyone my age would be jacked
Saying ym diet sucks, tell me how and ill accept it

[fender99]

Hey OP. Lets assume that your endocrine system does bounce back with your pct like you're praying it will.. Search for my post entitled "I lied to everyone on this forum" and try to take the time to read the whole thing. There are a lot of other things AAS will affect aside from just your natural testosterone production. Take it from me, there are tons of other issues that WILL arise if you decide to cycle, especially because you're 160 Lbs. and DON'T have the training or dieting experience to maintain any gains you're given while on cycle. Even if you really are eating 4100 calories a day, at 160 Lbs. I know you have not been doing it for very long. (I define long as years in multiples.) and thats the true challenge, keeping a clean, well managed, high calorie diet for an extended period of time. I fall off the wagon periodically and so will you. Keep it natural for a while, even if you don't wait until your late 20's or 30's like you really should. (assuming you've reached or neared your genetic potential) It would benefit you greatly to hold off 'til you're done growing. Whether or not you will listen is a different story, but no one here is going to help you map out a cycle or pct because it will have adverse effects on you on some level, and COULD be detrimental to your health.

[Alyn]

Care to reply Matt? You seem to be very knowledgable

[Scottish-Muscle]

Imo I'll give you a pretty straight answer... What the guys are saying is correct, they are merely trying to protect your health rather then just give you the answers your wanting to hear.

Basically your 18 years old, hormones are flowing everywhere at the moment on top of this your bodys still growing, bones, organs, tissues etc. To be fair your not heavy nor big so your thinking take something to advance the process. If you ask me the best bodys are built on solid foundations, what I mean by this is a skinny guy takes a lot of gear hes not advancing his "potential" mearly just slowly building a body out of a bottle and syringe. If you build the foundations first maximize your natural potential, i.e. until you hit your peak and believe me your nowhere near it then if you start on anabolic usage you would look a hell of a lot better trust me.

Now I and others would be happy to help you with diet, and training as you can maximize your potential. Take this from me, someone who suffers from colitis, and v low testosterone for OVER A YEAR and im sitting at 15.5 stone pretty solid and thats just thru diet and training.

[dru23]

This is about as good as an answer can get...

Imo I'll give you a pretty straight answer... What the guys are saying is correct, they are merely trying to protect your health rather then just give you the answers your wanting to hear.

Basically your 18 years old, hormones are flowing everywhere at the moment on top of this your bodys still growing, bones, organs, tissues etc. To be fair your not heavy nor big so your thinking take something to advance the process. If you ask me the best bodys are built on solid foundations, what I mean by this is a skinny guy takes a lot of gear hes not advancing his "potential" mearly just slowly building a body out of a bottle and syringe. If you build the foundations first maximize your natural potential, i.e. until you hit your peak and believe me your nowhere near it then if you start on anabolic usage you would look a hell of a lot better trust me.

Now I and others would be happy to help you with diet, and training as you can maximize your potential. Take this from me, someone who suffers from colitis, and v low testosterone for OVER A YEAR and im sitting at 15.5 stone pretty solid and thats just thru diet and training.

[SlimmerMe]

Ever here of a negative feedback loop?
This means that once your body starts getting used to the synthetic test, your own test production either slows down or shuts down completely. This is what you risk.

If we are so "dull" according to you, then dull it is.

Usually we accuse others of what we see in the mirror.

I bet Dec11 is salivating over this and wishes he were here to slam you but then he would end up getting in trouble and not you. Many guys here have lost their patience with this kind of "stinkin thinkin" that is going on with your thought process.

If you cannot remember whether or not you are 17 or 18? not a good sign.

The best that can happen out of this is: you return here later on and try to convince another noobie not to cycle by trying to knock some sense into his duller than dull head.

Post up some photos and let the guys tell you if you are ready. And go from there.

[Alyn]

Some photos..
I call you dull because you say things like i produce the amount of testosterone nautrally without using aas
Back pic is a couple of months old
Arms : just over 15inches
Quads : 25 inches
EDIT: to the poster above, dont insult me, or make me out to be a moron, i did state that it was a typing error. I have a lot more respect for those of you that have come at me in a calm manner rather than just bashing me for wanting to use aas. You all used them, you could have just trained naturally? Dont come at me with you was at your genetic limit, because i highly doubt that

[lovbyts]

I undersatnd the ethics of wroking hard for something, i bust my ass off in the gym, and i will do when i cycle, just it wont take me as long to achieve my aims and goals, i know im not gonna be huge after one cycle, i know its not an easy way it, but i see it as a tool to help me get there that little bit quicker. Great on you, you started when you was 36, perhaps you didnt share the same passion for fitness as i do when you was at my age.

hahahaha I love comments like that. I can remember clearly when I was 17. I remember clearly at 14/15 working out 5 days a week, trying to gain size. I ended up being one of the more muscular guys in high school but far from BIG... If I knew then what I know now the one thing I would have done differently (besides not over train) would have been learning how to eat. I was dedicated as much as anyone. from 14-27 I pretty much worked out 5x a week. If I knew about proper diet I would have been really BIG...

That is simply the one thing you need to learn to do. Learn to eat. Yeah yeah yeah, you eat a good clean diet. So did I. BS... I had not idea what I was doing but of course though I did. I WISH there where sites like this to learn from then.

I got lucky and although I had access to AAS I didnt use them due to being afraid of needles. The people and mainly one guy I was very good friends with who did use are fvcked up now and one died after his liver shut down. True story. I also didnt start ass until I was 45 but due to different reasons. HRT but thank God for this educational website we have here; it has been a god send.

Stop arguing and star learning.

[Alyn]

Meh, you know what, i cave ><
You're all right i am too young and too inexperienced, sorry for coming across as arrogant i didnt mean to be.
Just being young and impatient, just looks like my road to aethetics is going to be a little longer than i originally anticipated ):
Thanks for all the input guys, even the ones hatin' on me :P

[SlimJoe]

Food is best steroid

[lovbyts]

Sounds exciting
Look, i really want you to show me hard facts that the possibility of me being permantly damaged is high, iv done research and couldnt find any, just POSSIBILITIES, i was extremly against them before i started researching. If i can learn something new then this thread in my eyes will have been a success, im all for learning new things

You want fact? Start searching this forum for all the guys/kids who hare having ED issues. Guys who say they can only get 70% or 80% hard or not at all. Guys who are permanently on HRT in their 30s because they did 1 or 2 cycles when younger and now their natural test levels are gone. You arent finding it because you are looking for it. You are only looking on BB sites and most of them are garbage sites. This is the only site I belong to because 1st and foremost the theme here is health and safety, not what is the best overall stack not taking into account someones physical condition, age, understanding and experience.

Meh, you know what, i cave ><
You're all right i am too young and too inexperienced, sorry for coming across as arrogant i didnt mean to be.
Just being young and impatient, just looks like my road to aethetics is going to be a little longer than i originally anticipated ):
Thanks for all the input guys, even the ones hatin' on me :P

Trust me and the rest of the guys here, In the long run (only a couple of years) you will be MUCH happier. Most all the guys you know now who are juicing will be fat slobs, out of shape and pathetic and when you are 25, still 100% healthy they will envy you. Most of us have watched guys who got BIG and we wanted to do that, then we watch them loose it all just as fast and we laugh at them. They keep going up/down due to cycle because they dont know how to eat properly and they use to much gear to young so the body never levels out. Eventually they just seem bloated all the time even on cycle and look pathetic. It's not worth the short term gains to go through the long term losses.

[Flacco]

I started when I was 18. I thought I was ready. This was no new pattern for me... when I was 12, I thought I was 20. The more that I get older and grow mentally, the more I realize I really don't have any freggin clue about life. I know a little more than I did when I was 18. At least today I can admit that I don't know shxt compared to people that have lived entire lifetimes more than me. These days It is easier for me to surrender to the fact that I am not always right. I can take advice now, where I couldn't 10 years ago. Its something most people have to go through in life. I'm positive that I'm not alone on this board... most of us have to make our own mistakes in order to learn. I am too hard headed to listen to someone else's advice.
So I decided I was ready at 18. I thought that I could replace 3-4 little meals a day with shakes.
I said, I'll just do a cycle. I don't wanna get that big. I did one, and lost all gains within a few months. Once you get the taste for juice, you'll crave it. It'll be difficult to go to the gym without it. Well, I should speak for myself... Its difficult for me to find the motivation without steroids . I'm not gonna write too much more because I doubt you'll take anything in. You are arguing, waiting for us to give in and tell you the answer you want to hear. From your pics, you're already ripped up! Why the hell do you need to get any bigger? You got little man syndrome or something? You could definitely bulk up more if (I know you don't want to hear it) you tweaked your diet. I WISH that I waited to use steroids and stayed in the gym natural until now. I'd be a beast. But instead, I constantly fluctuate from 195-230 at 6'4" You are going about getting bigger ALL WRONG if you use steroids now. Using them now when you have not fully matured mentally, they will easily turn into a drug addiction for you. I'm tired of writing... you're probably only hearing what you want to hear anyway. I hope you don't for your sake, I won't loose any sleep. I just wish someone had told me what I'm telling you. Do the right thing... Or don't. Its you who has to live with it.

[Alyn]

I started when I was 18. I thought I was ready. This was no new pattern for me... when I was 12, I thought I was 20. The more that I get older and grow mentally, the more I realize I really don't have any freggin clue about life. I know a little more than I did when I was 18. At least today I can admit that I don't know shxt compared to people that have lived entire lifetimes more than me. These days It is easier for me to surrender to the fact that I am not always right. I can take advice now, where I couldn't 10 years ago. Its something most people have to go through in life. I'm positive that I'm not alone on this board... most of us have to make our own mistakes in order to learn. I am too hard headed to listen to someone else's advice.
So I decided I was ready at 18. I thought that I could replace 3-4 little meals a day with shakes.
I said, I'll just do a cycle. I don't wanna get that big. I did one, and lost all gains within a few months. Once you get the taste for juice, you'll crave it. It'll be difficult to go to the gym without it. Well, I should speak for myself... Its difficult for me to find the motivation without steroids . I'm not gonna write too much more because I doubt you'll take anything in. You are arguing, waiting for us to give in and tell you the answer you want to hear. From your pics, you're already ripped up! Why the hell do you need to get any bigger? You got little man syndrome or something? You could definitely bulk up more if (I know you don't want to hear it) you tweaked your diet. I WISH that I waited to use steroids and stayed in the gym natural until now. I'd be a beast. But instead, I constantly fluctuate from 195-230 at 6'4" You are going about getting bigger ALL WRONG if you use steroids now. Using them now when you have not fully matured mentally, they will easily turn into a drug addiction for you. I'm tired of writing... you're probably only hearing what you want to hear anyway. I hope you don't for your sake, I won't loose any sleep. I just wish someone had told me what I'm telling you. Do the right thing... Or don't. Its you who has to live with it.

Quite possibly!
No as iv stated, i have listened to you lot, and i thank you for it, i really do. But when you have your mind set on something and think itll be the answer to all your problems, to being told that itll just be a waste of time int he long run, its a hard blow yknow :P

Hopefully in a few years time ill be able to help someone out in my position by doing what you guys have done for me and persuade them otherwise.

[Honkey_Kong]

Alyn, trust me on this, if you do what these guys are telling you to do, I promise you in 10 years, you'll be where you want to be. All of us here have the same regret, we wished we knew what the people on this board are telling you right now, back when we were your age.

[SlimmerMe]

Some photos..
I call you dull because you say things like i produce the amount of testosterone nautrally without using aas
Back pic is a couple of months old
Arms : just over 15inches
Quads : 25 inches
EDIT: to the poster above, dont insult me, or make me out to be a moron, i did state that it was a typing error. I have a lot more respect for those of you that have come at me in a calm manner rather than just bashing me for wanting to use aas. You all used them, you could have just trained naturally? Dont come at me with you was at your genetic limit, because i highly doubt that

Hey buddy you are walking on thin ice talking to me like this! I did not insult you. I have tried to help you. And to continue to call me dull? not a good thing. And I have remained Calm. You want to see me or anyone else not calm? Then keep it up.

Do what you want to do. Find out for yourself. Keep doing your stinkin thinkin and see how far it gets you.

You are not winning friends here and to get help I suggest you change your attitude asap.

[oliver2828]

Bro, your 160lbs...you need to put on 30lbs plus NATURALLY first and wait 5 yrs. 250mgs test/week? Your bugging out.

[kelevra]

Maybe this kid shutting down his ability to reproduce is not such a bad thing????
What?? I’m just saying that?? Ahhh, Never Mind!

[JeffyDOS]

Lol! Possibilities...if you eat rat poison you could get I'll or die. That's just a possibility, does that mean a fat person should ingest it because of it's weight losing properties because the chance of getting severely I'll or dying is just that...a possibility? Lol.I am a hard fact, I'm telling you that at 26, I have very low natural test levels, and that direct stems from me cycling (responsibly) at age 19 Sure it's a POSSIBILITY this won't happen to you...but your test levels right now are what we are trying to reach by taking it. That's what you're not understanding. There is no need.

Hello, I'm not advocating nor condoning the use of steroids . In fact, what I'm going to say is probably off-topic.

Anecdotal evidence is the weakest form of evidence.

[Flacco]

Anecdotal evidence is the weakest form of evidence.

I didn't know what the fxck that ment hahaha Had to look it up just now. I agree though

[Alyn]

Hey buddy you are walking on thin ice talking to me like this! I did not insult you. I have tried to help you. And to continue to call me dull? not a good thing. And I have remained Calm. You want to see me or anyone else not calm? Then keep it up.

Do what you want to do. Find out for yourself. Keep doing your stinkin thinkin and see how far it gets you.

You are not winning friends here and to get help I suggest you change your attitude asap.

Someones a bit up themselves? 'on thin ice talking to me like this!'
You're neither my mother or a loved one, and when you're criticizing me for the way i feel on something ill talk to you however i like especially with your attitude. I did state how i changed my mind and thanked everyone for it, then you come back as if iv given you a badass wedgy or something. What gives you the right to talk to me in the way you are? Am i supposed to respect you or something? Are you some unknown messiah?

P.S i love that phrase 'stinkin thinkin'
Typical american

[Honkey_Kong]

Maybe this kid shutting down his ability to reproduce is not such a bad thing????
What?? I’m just saying that?? Ahhh, Never Mind!

Even though, I agree that wouldn't be a bad thing, morals can be a mother****er. I couldn't feel right helping some kid harm himself, even if he was an obnoxious idiot from a far-away land.

[YoungMan]

someones a bit up themselves? 'on thin ice talking to me like this!'
you're neither my mother or a loved one, and when you're criticizing me for the way i feel on something ill talk to you however i like especially with your attitude. I did state how i changed my mind and thanked everyone for it, then you come back as if iv given you a badass wedgy or something. What gives you the right to talk to me in the way you are? Am i supposed to respect you or something? Are you some unknown messiah?

P.s i love that phrase 'stinkin thinkin'
typical american

americaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!! Fuuuuccccccccckkkkkkkkk yeeeeaaaaaaaa

[YoungMan]

Had to do it lol i still love you guys