the amazement of tren

[Bigd89]

Subscribed

[PowerliftWill]

thinking that letro did that to you is has got to be one of the dumbest things i have ever heard.

Just because letros half life is long, doesn't mean it isn't immediately active. People report sex drive loss within days. Combined with tren , it's very possible for anger issues to arise. Since you spend so much time on the computer i'd expect you to know that....

[THE-DET-OAK]

What do you mean "being mean about it?". That would indicate you have upset me in some sort of way but all you have done is provide me, the members and most of the forum entertainment this evening... Sir.

When T decline's, (TT) or waiting for the ester to clear, I suggest you increase the HCG dose... I call it, "ramping". Its pretty self explanatory (well I thought it was).

The second part, ie. SERM treatment is based on the latest research done when 3 SERMs were compared (Tore/Tamox/Rolax). Below:

In a recent study done on Tamox, Tore and Rolax comparing HPTA restoration. Tamoxifen can out on top. In 8 weeks, 20mg/ED of Tamoxifen increased LH from 4.54 to 7.73 (+70%) and Test from 496.59 to 835.06 (+71%). After two months, 60mg/day of Toremifene increased LH from 4.05 to 5.05 (+25%) and Test from 496.59 to 709.79 (+42%).

I also advocate a front load of Tamox or Tore for the first 5-7 days.

So tell me, what an earth you have that is so cutting edge as all you are doing is following one Dr. and Dr.'s can and are wrong. I'm not saying Scally is, but I certainly do not put all my eggs in one basket.

well unfortunately due to the limited clinical information on PCT, I do have to put all my eggs in one basket for this one.

i only went and read the first page or 2 to your your thread. there is some great info in there, although 3 things I noticed in 45 seconds of reading, and please if you have updated since then just let me know.

#1 you told someone GH does nothing for HPTA restoration when in fact GH therapy has been shown to stimulate T synthesis.

#2 your ramping of HCG calls for 500iu's eod, when after a long heavy cycle, 1,000-2,500 iu's would be of much more benefit.

#3 since timing is the #1 reason for failed PCT's, I think you should amend your protocol. You state, like every other person on every board you will find, that stimulating endogenous LH and FSH production should be started 2 weeks after a cycle of test E or test C.

after a 12 week cycle of 600mgs, blood test's came back at up to 2800 ( do i need to post the study or has everyone seen this 1,000 times). Blood was drawn in relation to the half-life, 7 days after last injection. so we can assume that levels were around 5600 the day after your last shot. Now since the idea of ramping is to maximally stimulate T synthesis (and other actions at the pituitary) it would be better to over estimate the time to attempt to restart endogenous T production, so lets call it 6,000.

Now lets use a half-life of seven days, even though that is short by many definitions. 7 days after the last shot we will be at 3,000. 7 days after that we will be at 1500. this is when you want to attempt to start endogenous LH production???? wouldnt you think that with T levels this high be causing shut-down due to the negative feedback loop at this time????

now another 7 days 750, and another 375. Scally has written that this is the time, after androgen therapy, that the testicles will even attempt to restart naturally. thats 4 weeks using a very short half-life. im sorry that i keep referencing Scally, but i will now parrot from him. "there is no substitute for laboratory confirmation". so not only are you cutting SERM treatment short with this timing, you are also missing out on the most important time to run your HCG.

Let me ask you a question Swifto, have you ever had someone take a blood test during HCG treatment to see what doses effectively stimulate T????? if not i do not know how you could even begin to argue with this, cause Scally sure has, he has tested 1,000's of patients all throughout their protocol.

I dont have to be cycling for 20 years like dec, to realize this information is correct, besides since Scally publishes all his research, unlike many of the experts out there, what reason does he have to lie.

[THE-DET-OAK]

as far as your study, comparing HPTA restoration, who where the subjects in the study, and what was their history. hypo from what, AAS natural causes????

[THE-DET-OAK]

Just because letros half life is long, doesn't mean it isn't immediately active. People report sex drive loss within days. Combined with tren, it's very possible for anger issues to arise. Since you spend so much time on the computer i'd expect you to know that....

so since people report that letro "worked" within 24 hours your willing to confirm it was the letro that dried you out and gave you "roid rage "???? In 24 hours none the less. please dont tell me you believe that..................................i will go take 5 mg of letro and report back tomorrow and i can assure you i wont notice much of a difference, these drug's take time to build levels in the blood stream...................

["Maximus"]

as far as your study, comparing HPTA restoration, who where the subjects in the study, and what was their history. hypo from what, AAS natural causes????

Dude.. with all due respect, how much of a beating can you take??? Cut your losses and fvcking move on.. You have been owned more than once here, and you continue.. I don't get involve into this type of things but you just continue like a freaking mindless jonkie on a mission.

You have good points and that's a plus to you, but quit it man!

Dignity!

[THE-DET-OAK]

And to whoever said I know it all, you couldnt be further from the truth, I have no problem at all admitting when im wrong, but its gonna take alot more than an empty post to convince me..........................

[THE-DET-OAK]

Dude.. with all due respect, how much of a beating can you take??? Cut your losses and fvcking move on.. You have been owned more than once here, and you continue.. I don't get involve into this type of things but you just continue like a freaking mindless jonkie on a mission.

You have good points and that's a plus to you, but quit it man!

Dignity!

you say beating, i dont see it that way, all i see is a bunch of guys trying to put me down personally, and not refuting any claims ive made with anything more than a empty post................its amusing to me that everyone thinks so highly of all these "anectdotal" post's.......................thats exactly what we need, more people doing things cause someone else did it and it "worked".......................................... ....

thats not you is it chip????

["Maximus"]

Oh, and please stop this circus you have going on.. chill out for a few weeks and then come back! Nobody will hate you for doing this man ...It will give you a fresh start again!

["Maximus"]

you say beating, i dont see it that way, all i see is a bunch of guys trying to put me down personally, and not refuting any claims ive made with anything more than a empty post................its amusing to me that everyone thinks so highly of all these "anectdotal" post's.......................thats exactly what we need, more people doing things cause someone else did it and it "worked".......................................... ....

thats not you is it chip????

c'mon man.. you were quoted from another board, about your extensive AAS knowledge experience... Look, nobody is trying to put you down. It all boils down to you doing things your way and how other people run their stacks, agreed?

Just don't try to push down your views on everybody else's throat, if you get where I'm trying to get at.. I respect your views; I do things my own ways, and I don't necessarily follow what every other vet or senior member here does or preach so eloquently.. Just learn the ropes and you'll be fine... mend off the broken fences with few members and acknowledge that other people have other [not-so-up-to-date] methods of doing things.. You know!

Peace man!

[THE-DET-OAK]

see...................circus................ive only been lifting for 3 years blah blah blah, i will wait for them to refute my claims with some sort of substance.

if educated people cant see through the ridiculous post's that attempt to slander to me.................well then i dont think too highly of them anyway................................next please

Edit: i respect other peoples opinion and understand everyone has their own way of doing things, its not like im cramming info down people's throats, im only responding to slanderous posts about my post. if someone disagree's with me thats fine, but if they try to tarnish my reputation by putting my advice down i will defend it PERIOD............................................ ............. who reall gives a **** if ive only been dabbling with AAS for a few years, IMO that has nothing to do with your education in this sport, im not dis-crediting experience, it goes a long way, but not longer than science based research.

[Bigd89]

DET- OAK, post a pic...

[THE-DET-OAK]

cant do it man-for resons im not willing to post on the open board.....................i can assure you i have never lied about my stats....................................

[Bigd89]

Just blur out your face and any tats you got.

[THE-DET-OAK]

sorry bro.....................

["Maximus"]

Whatever man.. I thought you were smarter than this but you just proved me [and yourself] wrong!

Who the hell gives a damn about your reputation??? Just think about this one thing mate... Left to your own devices!

[Dr Pepper]

Wow is tren really this good. Great thread. Great stories. Will defiantly be getting on it in future cycles to come!

[Panzerfaust]

If Tren is so amazing, where are the pics?

[THE-DET-OAK]

im not responding to pic requests anymore, ihave stated why in not doing it................period.

[THE-DET-OAK]

oh and Mr Maximus please tell me where i got owned, i have yet to see it. is it because i have only been training 3 years, what does that even mean???? seriously. some guys train for 5 years and go pro, granted they have good genetics, but training experience has nothing to do with AAS, im surprised you cant see that.

besides i know how to fvcking train, better than most, although i still learn new stuff everytime i go to the gym, i imagine it will always be that way.

["Maximus"]

oh and Mr Maximus please tell me where i got owned, i have yet to see it. is it because i have only been training 3 years, what does that even mean???? seriously. some guys train for 5 years and go pro, granted they have good genetics, but training experience has nothing to do with AAS, im surprised you cant see that.

besides i know how to fvcking train, better than most, although i still learn new stuff everytime i go to the gym, i imagine it will always be that way.

Mr. Oak, I give you my word this will be my last post on this thread in direct reference to this matter and yourself...

I have learned that when someone speaks so highly about themselves -the majority of times- are pretending to be something they are not or have a lack of.

Respect is fvcking earned; get that in your head.. It is not something you can demand nor expect from anyone you come across unless you can come up with sustantial proof of whatever you so hardly try to proof about yourself.

And again, with all due respect to you, you have been owned more than once here!

Best,
Max

[THE-DET-OAK]

wow thats it???? everyone is just going to keep repeating the same thing hunh, i guess ive been owned then.................cause you said so, even though you cant even point it out...................

[dec11]

cant do it man-for resons im not willing to post on the open board.....................i can assure you i have never lied about my stats....................................

liar, nose is gona be poking your screen soon lmao

[THE-DET-OAK]

[dec11]

im not responding to pic requests anymore, ihave stated why in not doing it, im underdeveloped and couldnt possibly live up to my own hype, my nose how ever is getting longer and longer, i can now hang ten 2.5kgs plates on there................now leave me alone, i have my period.

there, all fixed for ya lol

[dec11]

i wonder how much fun we'll get before the hammer swings?

[THE-DET-OAK]

[dec11]

maybe its actually getting sad now.
man you are one of the biggest rejects ever.
ive had the displeasure of dealing with tosspots before, but you are without doubt the alpha w@nk sock

[THE-DET-OAK]

Sorry but i dont know what a wank sock is lol

you are my disapointment, 20 years and you have to pass off your post's to swifto cause you dont even understand the advice you give......................................

[dec11]

Sorry but i dont know what a wank sock is lol

you are my disapointment, 20 years and you have to pass off your post's to swifto cause you dont even understand the advice you give......................................

no, i just know when someone else knows better than i do, thats a virtue you might want to try to adopt someday, you friendless cretin

[THE-DET-OAK]

i have yet to see someone prove me so terribly wrong, i mean the biggest sticking point i have heard in this thread is basically: you never need masteron , cause it wont do anything for you on a cycle.................unless your under 10%.............i say hogwash, i mean who doesnt want to increase their libido?????? its not like I suggested 200mg EOD or something.................................to get that "hard vascular look" i mean seriously i could care less about beind 10%, frankly dropping down under that isnt healthy, and I dont do shows, i dont have the dedication to diet to even think about it, I eat waaaaay too much for that, and i dont have the genetics, im an endo..................

I used masteron in my cycle @ 100mg EOD, it was axe eo so it was prolly under-dosed, but my dick has never been so hard so often.....................proviron did the same thing to me, and i love it...............................................a nd it does make your muscles harder even at 14% shorty.

[t-gunz]

tren acetate.15 days and counting.

[dec11]

i have yet to see someone prove me so terribly wrong, i mean the biggest sticking point i have heard in this thread is basically: you never need masteron , cause it wont do anything for you on a cycle.................unless your under 10%.............i say hogwash, i mean who doesnt want to increase their libido?????? its not like I suggested 200mg EOD or something.................................to get that "hard vascular look" i mean seriously i could care less about beind 10%, frankly dropping down that low isnt healthy, and I dont do shows, i dont have the dedication to diet to even think about it, I eat waaaaay too much for that.

I used masteron in my cycle @ 100mg EOD, it was **** so it was prolly under-dosed, but my dick has never been hard before.....................proviron did the same thing to me, and i love it...............................................a nd it does make your muscles harder even at 14% shorty.

jez, maybe still going through puberty?

[THE-DET-OAK]

hahahah-jog on over to my home site, look at my avi, thats what im hittin ED, what are you??????

[dec11]

hahahah-jog on over to my home site, look at my avi, thats what im suffering, bad ED, help me please??????

wtf???
have you lost the plot

[THE-DET-OAK]

lol-good one

[The Titan99]

I'm unsubscribing to this thread. This constant, unrelenting bickering and condescending holier-than-thou garbage is what makes this forum annoying sometimes. Christ, 276 posts and 99% of them are bvllsh*t!!!

But before I go, my avi is after my first 8 week Tren Hex cycle. Like the title of the thread says, the stuff is amazing!!!

[workhardgethuge]

maybe its actually getting sad now.
man you are one of the biggest rejects ever.
ive had the displeasure of dealing with tosspots before, but you are without doubt the alpha w@nk sock

Dec: Whats a Tosspot? Must be an Irish thing?

[PowerliftWill]

so since people report that letro "worked" within 24 hours your willing to confirm it was the letro that dried you out and gave you "roid rage"???? In 24 hours none the less. please dont tell me you believe that..................................i will go take 5 mg of letro and report back tomorrow and i can assure you i wont notice much of a difference, these drug's take time to build levels in the blood stream...................

It takes time to build to FULL STRENGTH it's active quite quickly. Id have to blame letro simply because I have changed nothing for 8 weeks and suddendly when I take letro shit happens. You tell me what's going on then mr 300 posts of bullshit.......it's the only logical explanation.

[PowerliftWill]

I'm unsubscribing to this thread. This constant, unrelenting bickering and condescending holier-than-thou garbage is what makes this forum annoying sometimes. Christ, 276 posts and 99% of them are bvllsh*t!!!

But before I go, my avi is after my first 8 week Tren Hex cycle. Like the title of the thread says, the stuff is amazing!!!

I agree man, I cant take the this derailed crap anymore...unsubscribed