Most Common Beginners Cycles - Look here..

[Papiriqui]

Mick when you say next to the AI, monitor accordingly, what exactly are you referring to?? This might have been asked before, not sure but i was wondering, specially for someone who has never done a cycle or done a cycle without an AI or PCT. What do you look for when monitoring an AI??

[AliYousaf]

Option 2. Long Ester

Beginners Cycles + (with an Oral)

Option 1, Long Ester

Wk 1-12 Testosterone Enanthate = 250mg twice/wk e3.5d
Wk 1-4 Dianabol (Dbol ) = 30mg/day *half life is 4-6hrs
Wk 1-12 Aromasin 10mg ED - monitor and adjust accordingly.
Wk 1-14.5 hCG = 250iu twice/wk day before test injection.

PCT
Begins wk 15 to wk 19

Clomid 75/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20

*Note: If youre currently on TRT/HRT you skip PCT and simply return to your dosing protocol

Mickey, great post with tons of info thanks.
I will start sometime in next two months . My question is that I can get hCG in 500iu bottle only and Armidex (not Aromas in) in 1mg tabs only. How do you recommend adjusting these dosages with the cycle quoted above?

[Ole kristian]

Option 1. Long Ester

Wk 1-10 Testosterone Cypionate = 200mg twice/wk e3.5d
Wk 1-10 Arimidex .25mg EOD – monitor and adjust accordingly.
Wk 1- 12.5 hCG = 250iu twice/wk day before test injection.

PCT
Begins wk 13 to wk 17

Clomid 75/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Test C 2x a week means this cycle is 400mg a week right?
any danger if a person inject 250mg instead of 200mg?
with a good diet, good restitution and a good work out plan, how much can you gain on this cycle?
would German volume traning be a bad work out plan?

Nice job btw.

[MickeyKnox]

Mick when you say next to the AI, monitor accordingly, what exactly are you referring to?? This might have been asked before, not sure but i was wondering, specially for someone who has never done a cycle or done a cycle without an AI or PCT. What do you look for when monitoring an AI??

What im referring to is the visual and felt sides that are associated with rising or falling Estrogen. Example: acne, erectile dysfunction, water retention, mood..ect. Im able to adjust my AI using these sides as i now know my body fairly well.

However, this isn't etched in stone. Bloodwork is very important and should not be substituted for "signs."

Mickey, great post with tons of info thanks.
I will start sometime in next two months . My question is that I can get hCG in 500iu bottle only and Armidex (not Aromas in) in 1mg tabs only. How do you recommend adjusting these dosages with the cycle quoted above?

Invest in a pill splitter and dose your Adex .25 EOD to begin. Monitor accordingly, preferably with bloodwork.

Option 1. Long Ester

Wk 1-10 Testosterone Cypionate = 200mg twice/wk e3.5d
Wk 1-10 Arimidex .25mg EOD – monitor and adjust accordingly.
Wk 1- 12.5 hCG = 250iu twice/wk day before test injection.

PCT
Begins wk 13 to wk 17

Clomid 75/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Test C 2x a week means this cycle is 400mg a week right?
any danger if a person inject 250mg instead of 200mg?
with a good diet, good restitution and a good work out plan, how much can you gain on this cycle?
would German volume traning be a bad work out plan?

Nice job btw.

Thanks Kristian. It was a collective effort on behave of the the Forum.

No problem using 250mg 2/wk at all.

Hard to predict your gains - everyone is different. But on average everything being on par and equal, id say anywhere from 15-25lbs - especially if its your first cycle. But diet is paramount with any cycle, and this is what determines your weight gain, not pills or oils.

[Ole kristian]

So i found Option 1. Long Ester abit intresting but i have 2 questions

1.
Can i use Test Prop instead of Test C? shorter halftime is safer in case of side effects, or am i wrong?

2.
Can someone look up so i havent missunderstood anything?

I have read about Arimidex , nolva, clomid, HCG , testosteron e,c and prop, injection, hormone abusement in general. I know its alot more variabels that is important to know about, but right now im focusing on learning about the drug abusement.

Testosteron Cypionate like all testosterone compounds carries a high level of aromatase activity; aromatization referring to the conversion of testosterone into estrogen. As estrogen levels rise, this can lead to gynecomastia , to prevent this Arimidex can be used. Testosterone in general aslo shutdown you testosteron production in your testicels, this can be prevented by using HCG. After cycle is done the body is abit «messed up» and a PCT is necessary to help the body to go back to normal. In this cycle nolva and clomid is used for PCT (as mickeyknox recommend). To optimaize your health, a bloodtest is recommended, a bloodtest shows your body's level of different hormones and other stuff that is necessary to know for regulating your drug inntake. If anything feels wrong check it up and/or ask for help on the forum or the doc.

Injection
inject the testosterone into the syringe, tip it to make sure no bubles are in the syringe. Sterilize the injection spot, Inject the needle about 5 cm in your butt, make sure you didnt miss by pull up the pump and see if it is any blood (if it is, you need to start over), slowly inject the testosterone and take the needle out.

Exept the diet and workout plan, what else should I read about? This is a intresting field but its hard to know were to start, hormones in general is a very complex field... im intressted in trying a testosterone only cycle. After reading abit on this forum I think it is smart to read even more about this before I get started.

[Papiriqui]

I have to look into BW prices since my insurance only covers 2 a yr which i want to use for before and after!

[AliYousaf]

Mickey, great post with tons of info thanks.
I will start sometime in next two months . My question is that I can get hCG in 500iu bottle only and Armidex (not Aromas in) in 1mg tabs only. How do you recommend adjusting these dosages with the cycle quoted above?

Thanks for the advice on investing in a splitter Mickey. My confusion on hCG remains. I can only get 500iu vials. Can you tell if its ok to refrigerate the hCG mixture for another use like 250iu once and 250iu another day of the week. And I guess the exact half dosage of 250 iu for one time use does not matter especially if I am using twice a week as its gonna be 500iu per week anyway. Is this right ??

Sent from my iPhone.

[MickeyKnox]

So i found Option 1. Long Ester abit intresting but i have 2 questions

1.
Can i use Test Prop instead of Test C? shorter halftime is safer in case of side effects, or am i wrong? The ester has little bearing on potential side effects. The main differences with Prop are, shorter wait time for recovery, but frequent pinning.

2.
Can someone look up so i havent missunderstood anything?

I have read about Arimidex , nolva, clomid, HCG , testosteron e,c and prop, injection, hormone abusement in general. I know its alot more variabels that is important to know about, but right now im focusing on learning about the drug abusement.

Testosteron Cypionate like all testosterone compounds carries a high level of aromatase activity; aromatization referring to the conversion of testosterone into estrogen. As estrogen levels rise, this can lead to gynecomastia , to prevent this Arimidex can be used. Testosterone in general aslo shutdown you testosteron production in your testicels, this can be prevented by using HCG. After cycle is done the body is abit «messed up» and a PCT is necessary to help the body to go back to normal. In this cycle nolva and clomid is used for PCT (as mickeyknox recommend). To optimaize your health, a bloodtest is recommended, a bloodtest shows your body's level of different hormones and other stuff that is necessary to know for regulating your drug inntake. If anything feels wrong check it up and/or ask for help on the forum or the doc.

Injection
inject the testosterone into the syringe, tip it to make sure no bubles are in the syringe. Sterilize the injection spot, Inject the needle about 5 cm in your butt, make sure you didnt miss by pull up the pump and see if it is any blood (if it is, you need to start over), slowly inject the testosterone and take the needle out.

Exept the diet and workout plan, what else should I read about? This is a intresting field but its hard to know were to start, hormones in general is a very complex field... im intressted in trying a testosterone only cycle. After reading abit on this forum I think it is smart to read even more about this before I get started.

Everything you just wrote is perfect. Check these links out. They will confirm and provide additional tips and suggestions.

Injection Techniques and Questions

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e#.UMeFJazX_fs

Thanks for the advice on investing in a splitter Mickey. My confusion on hCG remains. I can only get 500iu vials. Can you tell if its ok to refrigerate the hCG mixture for another use like 250iu once and 250iu another day of the week. And I guess the exact half dosage of 250 iu for one time use does not matter especially if I am using twice a week as its gonna be 500iu per week anyway. Is this right ??

Sent from my iPhone.

Five hundred or five thousand? Just making sure we're on the same page.

Ive never seen 500iu vials. But if that's what you have, i would mix .5ml and use .25 on the slin to keep it simple and then each pin = 250iu.

And yes, twice per wk @ 250iu.

[Toki]

Killer information

[Welsy23]

I'm a newbie and proud....umm never mind because I don't know shite about any of this so thank you Mickey. Now I just need to learn all the lingo and decipher the acronyms so I know what the hell you're all referring to.

[AliYousaf]

Five hundred or five thousand? Just making sure we're on the same page.

Ive never seen 500iu vials. But if that's what you have, i would mix .5ml and use .25 on the slin to keep it simple and then each pin = 250iu.

And yes, twice per wk @ 250iu.

Shit, My bad.. its 5000iu.. and I am even more confused now.. I mean how to get a 250iu out of it for one time. I have no idea. I am hoping that once its been mixed with the supplied water it can be refrigerated for further use. ??? 5000iu means 20 Shots per vial ...Is that right ???

[Gaspaco]

Add 2ml of bw to your powder!

0.10ml = 250iu

[AliYousaf]

Add 2ml of bw to your powder!

0.10ml = 250iu

My BW that came with it in a separate vial is 1 ml. In total. ..

Sent from my iPhone.

[MickeyKnox]

I'm a newbie and proud....umm never mind because I don't know shite about any of this so thank you Mickey. Now I just need to learn all the lingo and decipher the acronyms so I know what the hell you're all referring to.

List of common Abbreviations

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...!#.UTn-1TcUX0E

Shit, My bad.. its 5000iu.. and I am even more confused now.. I mean how to get a 250iu out of it for one time. I have no idea. I am hoping that once its been mixed with the supplied water it can be refrigerated for further use. ??? 5000iu means 20 Shots per vial ...Is that right ???

LIke Gaspaco suggested, add 2 ml of Bac Water and then .10 on your slin pin will = 250iu.

If you only have one ml BW, buy some more - its easy to find just do a search. Nobody fakes Bac Water.

After you have reconstituted your hCG , it will be good for about 50 days or so.

[Ole kristian]

two more questions...

1st
Why is it recommended to use both clomid and nolva in PCT, after some reading it looks like they pretty much do the same thing and some websites tells you to only chose one of them.

2nd
why do you have to take PCT if you use HCG ?

oh, and by the way... im here to learn, i like detailed answers or liks to trustwordy information. Thanks!

[MickeyKnox]

two more questions...

1st
Why is it recommended to use both clomid and nolva in PCT, after some reading it looks like they pretty much do the same thing and some websites tells you to only chose one of them.

2nd
why do you have to take PCT if you use HCG ?

oh, and by the way... im here to learn, i like detailed answers or liks to trustwordy information. Thanks!

Why HCG is So Important

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.UIlhVWfX_ft

SERM, AI Definition

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-AI-Definition


“The following explains why it is prudent to use BOTH Nolvadex and Clomid together in your PCT. It is by Dr Scally - probably the foremost expert in the United States on this topic.” JimmyInk’dUp.

Med Hypotheses. 2009 Jun;72(6):723-8. Epub 2009 Feb 23.
Anabolic steroid -induced hypogonadism--towards a unified hypothesis of anabolic steroid action.
Tan RS, Scally MC.

Source
HPT/Axis Inc., 1660 Beaconshire Road, Houston, TX 77077, USA.

Abstract

Anabolic steroid-induced hypogonadism (ASIH) is the functional incompetence of the testes with subnormal or impaired production of testosterone and/or spermatozoa due to administration of androgens or anabolic steroids . Anabolic-androgenic steroid (AAS), both prescription and nonprescription, use is a cause of ASIH. Current AAS use includes prescribing for wasting associated conditions. Nonprescription AAS use is also believed to lead to AAS dependency or addiction. Together these two uses account for more than four million males taking AAS in one form or another for a limited duration. While both of these uses deal with the effects of AAS administration they do not account for the period after AAS cessation. The signs and symptoms of ASIH directly impact the observation of an increase in muscle mass and muscle strength from AAS administration and also reflect what is believed to demonstrate AAS dependency. More significantly, AAS prescribing after cessation adds the comorbid condition of hypogonadism to their already existing chronic illness. ASIH is critical towards any future planned use of AAS or similar compound to effect positive changes in muscle mass and muscle strength as well as an understanding for what has been termed anabolic steroid dependency. The further understanding and treatments that mitigate or prevent ASIH could contribute to androgen therapies for wasting associated diseases and stopping nonprescription AAS use. This paper proposes a unified hypothesis that the net effects for anabolic steroid administration must necessarily include the period after their cessation or ASIH.

PMID: 19231088 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Future treatments:

A treatment goal of HPTA restoration will have its basis in the regulation and control of testosterone production. The HPTA has two components, both spermatogenesis and testosterone production.

In males, luteinizing hormone (LH) secretion by the pituitary positively stimulates testicular testosterone (T) production; follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) stimulates testicular spermatozoa production. The pulsatile secretion of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) from the hypothalamus stimulates LH and FSH secretion. In general, absent FSH, there is no spermatozoa production; absent LH, there is no testosterone production. Regulation of the secretion of GnRH, FSH, and LH occurs partially by the negative feedback of testosterone and estradiol at the level of the hypothalamo-pituitary. Estradiol has a much larger, inhibitory effect than testosterone, being 200-fold more effective in suppressing LHsecretion.

In the case of ASIH, where the individual suffers from functional hypogonadism and the belief for eventual return of function, treatment is directed at HPTA restoration. A medical quandary for physicians presented with hypogonadal patients secondary to AAS administration is there is currently no FDA approved drug to restore
HPTA function. Standard treatment to this point has been testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG ), conservative therapy (‘‘watchful waiting” or ‘‘do nothing”), or off-label prescribing of aromatase inhibitors or selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERM).

The primary drawback of testosterone replacement and hCG administration is that this therapy is infinite in nature. These treatments will remedy the signs and symptoms associated with hypogonadism, but do not alleviate the need for a life-long commitment to therapy. Further, administration serves to further HPTA suppression.

Conservative therapy (‘‘watchful waiting” or ‘‘do nothing”) is the probably worst case option as this does nothing to treat the patient with ASIH. Also, conservative therapy will have the undesirable result of the nonprescription AAS user to return to AAS use as a means to avoid ASIH signs and symptoms.

The aromatase inhibitors demonstrate the ability to cause an elevation of the gonadotropins and secondarily serum testosterone [62]. The administration of SERMs is a common treatment in attempts to restore the HPTA because they increase LH secretion from the pituitary that leads to increased local testosterone production
[63–67].

Guay has used clomiphene citrate as therapy for erection dysfunction and secondary hypogonadism. Patients received clomiphene citrate 50 mg per day for 4 months in an attempt to raise their testosterone level [68]. Clomiphene has been reported in a case study to reverse andropause secondary to anabolic–androgenic steroid use [69]. The patient received clomiphene citrate 50 mg twice per day in an attempt to raise his testosterone level. The patient when followed up after two months had a relapse, tiredness and loss of libido, after discontinuing clomiphene citrate. There are case study reports demonstrating the effectiveness of the combination of clomiphene and tamoxifen in HPTA restoration after stopping AAS administration [70–73]. Clomiphene is a mixture of the trans (enclomiphene) and is (zuclomiphene) enantiomers, which have opposite effects upon the estradiol receptor [74]. Enclomiphene is an estradiol antagonist, while zuclomiphene is an estradiol agonist. The addition of tamoxifen to clomiphene might be expected to increase the overall antagonism of the estradiol receptor.


"Clomiphene is an antiestrogen, which decreases the estrogen effect in the body. It has a dual effect by stimulating the hypothalamic pituitary area and it has an antiestrogenic effect, so that it decreases the effect of estrogen in the body. Tamoxifen is more of a strict antiestrogen; it decreases the effect of estrogen in the body, and potentiates the action of clomiphene. Tamoxifen and clomiphene citrate compete with estrogen for estrogen receptor binding sites, thus eliminating excess estrogen circulation at the level of the hypothalamus and pituitary, allowing gonadotropin production to resume. Administering them together produces an elevation of LH and secondary gonadal sex hormones. " Dr Michael Scally

[Ole kristian]

this will take me a while to understand, good for me that i got all weekend! thanks for the good answere, i guess you know alot about hormones. do you study this field or something?

[Etbthree]

good info here, thanks

[Etbthree]

[AliYousaf]

I will start my cycle in a month, have done my research and am quite sure I have done all my homework. A detailed article on the main website on "how to get off steroid " states that only one SERM is required during a PCT and suggests to save Al's for extreme like when Gyno starts to appear..
I am hoping the recommended Cycles & PCT by OP will be enough to prevent Gyno from even appearing.

Sent from my iPhone.

[MickeyKnox]

I will start my cycle in a month, have done my research and am quite sure I have done all my homework. A detailed article on the main website on "how to get off steroid " states that only one SERM is required during a PCT and suggests to save Al's for extreme like when Gyno starts to appear..
I am hoping the recommended Cycles & PCT by OP will be enough to prevent Gyno from even appearing.

Sent from my iPhone.

Some information is a bit outdated but Staff are working on it.

Everything you read in THIS thread is updated and current. Please make sure you run your AI on cycle and not "save it for gyno." PCT includes Nolva AND Clomid.

[AliYousaf]

Got it Mickey :-) Thanks a lot. I am sure lots of new people do their research via this website. It should be updated soon in the greater good of people.
And BTW I just bought extra 20 ml of Bac water Sodium Chloride for my hCG . The water is simply an OTC I am not sure why won't some people find it as discussed previously in this thread.

Sent from my iPhone.

[MickeyKnox]

Is it 0.9% Sodium Chloride, or Bacteriostatic Water?

BW is not sold over the counter in Canada, or the USA i believe. However, you're located in Pakistan so the laws are likely different there.

[AliYousaf]

Is it 0.9% Sodium Chloride, or Bacteriostatic Water?

BW is not sold over the counter in Canada, or the USA i believe. However, you're located in Pakistan so the laws are likely different there.

It's 0.9% Sodium Chloride. I got it so easily at an OTC store I was thinking what do guys worry about but then you are right. It could be due to local laws or something.

Sent from my iPhone.

[ichad]

BW is sold over counter in Canada. Same with pins.

[Armykid93]

Always love coming back and reading this. Great info.

[MickeyKnox]

BW is sold over counter in Canada. Same with pins.

Really? Not in my city. Why have i not heard of any Canadian, on here up until now, purchasing BW over the counter? I assumed it was the same everywhere in Canada. Im not doubting you, Im simply surprised.

Do you mind me asking where you purchased your BW? Shoppers, Walmart, Rexall?

Thanks for the heads up!

[MickeyKnox]

It's 0.9% Sodium Chloride. I got it so easily at an OTC store I was thinking what do guys worry about but then you are right. It could be due to local laws or something.

Sent from my iPhone.

Dont use 0.9% Sodium Chloride. Pick up some Bacteriostatic Water.

[OnTheSauce]

If u can find Bacteriostatic sodium chloride that works as well

[MickeyKnox]

If u can find Bacteriostatic sodium chloride that works as well

Never used it. I use BW exclusively.

[AliYousaf]

Dont use 0.9% Sodium Chloride. Pick up some Bacteriostatic Water.

Finding bac water isn't as much easy as it was with Sodium Chloride. I have been looking around all day today and no one has it. Sodium chloride was piece of cake to find. Now what are my options ? Home made Bac water ?? I am afraid I ll ever find pure alcohol to begin with.

Sent from my iPhone.

[>Good Luck<]

Finding bac water isn't as much easy as it was with Sodium Chloride. I have been looking around all day today and no one has it. Sodium chloride was piece of cake to find. Now what are my options ? Home made Bac water ?? I am afraid I ll ever find pure alcohol to begin with.

Sent from my iPhone.

If you use anything but bacteriostatic water, you can expect your Hcg to lose potency fast. I believe you must use what you need and discard the rest after FIRST injection...

Bac water is easy to find, just locate a medical supply shop- not a regular pharmacy

[OnTheSauce]

If you use anything but bacteriostatic water, you can expect your Hcg to lose potency fast. I believe you must use what you need and discard the rest after FIRST injection...

Bac water is easy to find, just locate a medical supply shop- not a regular pharmacy

You know sodium chloride is saline solution right? Bacteriostatic sodium chloride is more than fine.

[OnTheSauce]

http://www.mountainside-medical.com/...ter-30-ml.html

[MickeyKnox]

Finding bac water isn't as much easy as it was with Sodium Chloride. I have been looking around all day today and no one has it. Sodium chloride was piece of cake to find. Now what are my options ? Home made Bac water ?? I am afraid I ll ever find pure alcohol to begin with.

Sent from my iPhone.

If you can find the components to make it yourself, here is the recipe..


Homemade Bac Water

99ml Distilled Water
1ml Benzyl Alcohol
1- .2 micron syringe filter
1- 100ml sterile vial
1- 20ml syringe

1. Boil water, then add BA.
2. Pull water/BA mixture into syringe.
3. Attach filter to syringe with a needle and insert into sterile vial.
4. Insert another needle into Vial to release air pressure as you filter water/BA mixture into sterile vial.

[AliYousaf]

http://www.mountainside-medical.com/...ter-30-ml.html

Thanks for the link mate. Unfortunately these guys don't ship to my location. Just finished writing to them inquiring why?? Someone told me to visit hospital pharmacies and damn I did that too. Visited a couple of hospitals in my area to find none.

Sent from my iPhone.

[AliYousaf]

If you use anything but bacteriostatic water, you can expect your Hcg to lose potency fast. I believe you must use what you need and discard the rest after FIRST injection...

Bac water is easy to find, just locate a medical supply shop- not a regular pharmacy

Locating medical supply shops is on my priority list now :-)

Sent from my iPhone.

[MickeyKnox]

After the last few days, this really needs to stay on the first page.

[>Good Luck<]

After the last few days, this really needs to stay on the first page.

Agreed! To the top!

[AliYousaf]

Agreed totally :-)

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