1.5 grams of Sustanon, 1.2 grams Tren E (first week)

**KimboHalfSlice** · 12-14-2012, 10:59 PM

Some people in ramping up the dosage with steroids .... whereas I believe in shocking the system, getting the steroid -blood-level high from the get-go, and then reducing the dosage.

This is my first week on juice, although it's my 4th cycle. I'm doing Sustanon and Tren E on their own.

This week so far I've taken 1.25 grams of Sustanon, and 1.2 grams of Tren E. (I started 7 days ago).

Only real noticeable effect is getting out of bed at 4am to go have food (which is a form of insomnia coz I lie there for ages trying to get back asleep before I'm like **** it, get up and eat). Also my recovery time from working out has drastically decreased; I did a leg workout the other day which I though would leave me limping for days, but I was waking fine the next day.

The Tren E should take hold very very soon, so at that point I'll reduce my dosage to:

Sustanon: 100mg per week (no need for an automatising compound, let the Tren do its job)
Tren E: 800mg per week

I'll see how that goes for me. If the sides are bad, I'll drop it down to:

Sustanon: 100mg per week
Tren E: 400mg per week

And I don't get Tren cough at all whatsoever, lucky me. So far so good anyway.

Worst case scenario, I have access to prescription drugs that will ease the side-effects as the Tren leaves my system (i.e. drugs to induce sleep, drugs to reduce blood pressure and heart rate).

By the way, does anyone know a good website where I can buy an empty STERILE 10ml vial? I have a load of 1cc amplues of Sustanon which I want to transfer to a vial.

**Lunk1** · 12-14-2012, 11:03 PM

Hmmm. curious of cycle history and stats there big doser?

**diabolicsoul** · 12-14-2012, 11:06 PM

You mean front loading? I think the results differs from person to person. Some say they feel their cycle kick in faster, some say they only feel the sides come in faster.

As for your last questions. Ar-r has 10 mL vials you can order.

**KimboHalfSlice** · 12-14-2012, 11:36 PM

First cycle: Sustanon
Second Cycle: Sustanon, Deca , Dbol
Third Cycle: Anavar

So this is the fourth.

**Lunk1** · 12-14-2012, 11:39 PM

I will get back to this tomorrow as its night night time...see if someone beats me to it

**stpete** · 12-15-2012, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by Almond

Some people in ramping up the dosage with steroids .... whereas I believe in shocking the system, getting the steroid -blood-level high from the get-go, and then reducing the dosage.

This is my first week on juice, although it's my 4th cycle. I'm doing Sustanon and Tren E on their own.

This week so far I've taken 1.25 grams of Sustanon, and 1.2 grams of Tren E. (I started 7 days ago).

Only real noticeable effect is getting out of bed at 4am to go have food (which is a form of insomnia coz I lie there for ages trying to get back asleep before I'm like **** it, get up and eat). Also my recovery time from working out has drastically decreased; I did a leg workout the other day which I though would leave me limping for days, but I was waking fine the next day.

The Tren E should take hold very very soon, so at that point I'll reduce my dosage to:

Sustanon: 100mg per week (no need for an automatising compound, let the Tren do its job)
Tren E: 800mg per week

I'll see how that goes for me. If the sides are bad, I'll drop it down to:

Sustanon: 100mg per week
Tren E: 400mg per week

And I don't get Tren cough at all whatsoever, lucky me. So far so good anyway.

Worst case scenario, I have access to prescription drugs that will ease the side-effects as the Tren leaves my system (i.e. drugs to induce sleep, drugs to reduce blood pressure and heart rate).

By the way, does anyone know a good website where I can buy an empty STERILE 10ml vial? I have a load of 1cc amplues of Sustanon which I want to transfer to a vial.

Is there a question here? I will say that your that your tren/test ratio is way off. And no, we can't help w/you getting your vials.

**Granovich** · 12-15-2012, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by stpete

Is there a question here? I will say that your that your tren/test ratio is way off. And no, we can't help w/you getting your vials.

That!!
tren /test ration its way off!
test is too low compared to tren. why not like 250mg Sustanon a week. ( 100 mg is REALLY LOW! )
and for tren for first run. dont try 800 man go for the 400 no need to try as tren sides are harsh and you will gain amazing gains on trenbolone taking into consideration diet and workout routine... any AI, HCG , Caber use ???
what about PCT???
care to share those ?

**KimboHalfSlice** · 12-15-2012, 12:59 AM

As regards my very low dosage of Tesosterone, I read the sticky about Tren usage and agreed that I should only need a HRT dose of it if I'm taking Tren. The 100mg of Testosterone per week will be enough to keep my body doing all of its Testosterone-related stuff (sex drive, etc.), while the Tren will be building muscle.

**KimboHalfSlice** · 12-15-2012, 01:00 AM

Oh and PCT will be four weeks of Clomiphene and Tamoxifen (known commonly by their tradenames Clomid and Nolvadex ).

I'll also be taking hCG every other day about 3 weeks into the cycle when my balls have fully shut down.

**KimboHalfSlice** · 12-15-2012, 01:02 AM

Oh and I'm not concerned about using an AI or Caber while on cycle, as I know from my previous cycle of Test/Deca /Dbol that I don't experience gynacomastia even at ridiculously high dosage (we're talking a gram of Test and a gram of Deca per week). It's just not in my genetics to grow tits.

**stpete** · 12-15-2012, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by Almond

As regards my very low dosage of Tesosterone, I read the sticky about Tren usage and agreed that I should only need a HRT dose of it if I'm taking Tren. The 100mg of Testosterone per week will be enough to keep my body doing all of its Testosterone-related stuff (sex drive, etc.), while the Tren will be building muscle.

That would be ok if you're going into comp. If not, expect your diet, sleeping and normal routines to be flawed.

**Granovich** · 12-15-2012, 01:52 AM

i still think you should Use AI . and up the Sustanon to 250
Tren still higher so you are good.
also for first tren run why not acetate bro ?
it gets out the system quicker and you can cut it anytime you want to staart PCT couple of days after the last pin

**Stosh_112** · 12-15-2012, 02:14 AM

What was ur question again??? Maybe this belongs in the members cycle results forum???

**KimboHalfSlice** · 12-15-2012, 07:14 AM

That would be ok if you're going into comp. If not, expect your diet, sleeping and normal routines to be flawed.

Why on earth would my diet, sleeping and normal routines be flawed if I were taking 100mg of Testosterone per week? That's around about a HRT dose, right? What's wrong with that?

i still think you should Use AI . and up the Sustanon to 250

The Aromatase Inhibitor would only be to stop Testosterone being turned into Estrogen. This shouldn't be an issue if I run the Testosterone low at 100mg per week. Right?

I'm relying on Trenbolone for building muscle in this cycle. The one and only reason that I'm taking Testosterone with it is that Trenbolone will shutdown my HPTA, and therefore I'll have no Testosterone in my body (and I do need to have some Testosterone).

**Lunk1** · 12-15-2012, 07:30 AM

1st) Tren is NOT Deca , meaning while you may have been fine running a gram of deca this isn't nearly the case with Tren. We have several very experienced members here that have experience major health problems when getting into that high of a dose of Tren. Given it's A/A ratio there really is no reason to use that kind of dose in the first place. For an example...I am on my 5th tren cycle. I decided to give 750mg EW a go. I have seen no added benifit over my normal 500mg and I have experienced sides that are far worse. Gastro intestanal issues, insomnia (worse than normal), major lethargy. I honestly will go right back to a lower dose the next time I hang out with Tren.

You obviously have a "decent" knowledge base but are still a bit off. Just because you don't get gyno does NOT mean you are not experiencing issues with elevated E2. Your right that keepeing test low may avoid the need for an AI (still want on hand) but you would still need to use PRL control through cycle with Deca or Tren. Use of one or the other will keep prolactin under control.

I would bump the test dose a bit, maybe 150-200mg EW honestly and I urge you to keep the Tren around 500mg EW ( your still talking the effect of nearly a gram of test).

I believe what Pete is talking about is how on doses of Tren like your talking it is difficult to fight the lethargy and find desire to eat and ability to sleep. All of this having adverse effects on your workouts

**stpete** · 12-15-2012, 01:19 PM

^^^ That!

Thanks, Lunk.

**Gi812Many** · 12-15-2012, 05:55 PM

I personally think this whole idea is retarded? Front loading over 2g of test then dropping to 100mgs.....LOL Then your first run of Tren taking 800mgs/ weekly...I have ran Tren up to 1.2g / weekly, while running 1.5g of Test. Your Tren is WAYYYYY OVERKILL for your first time using. You would do amazing with 400mgs / weekly. I agree with what was stated above, as far as running a low dose of Test with Tren towards comp. Keeps the unwanted bloat etc out. But get ready to feel like complete ass and forget about your dick staying hard through out your cycle. Also, as stated above..Your appetite is going to shrink a lot. After all the experience I have had with Tren, I wont run over 800mgs/weekly due to sides..lethargy and just overall negative well being feeling.

**Atomini** · 12-15-2012, 06:11 PM

I think the frontloading idea is wayyy too much. And if you're planning on using Testosterone at TRT doses to maintain normal bodily function (which is a perfectly fine thing to do) while having Trenbolone act as your primary anabolic , why in the sam hell would you frontload the Testosterone? And why 1,200mg for god's sake if you're just using 100mg per week of Testosterone as baseline?

Other than that, not too much else I have to say. Only other thing may be the Trenbolone dose, considering its your first run with Tren ... There is absolutely no need to go that high! I did a 100mg/week Testosterone with 800mg/week Trenbolone dose cycle once, and i'm a very experienced Tren user and I STILL found that a Tren dose that high is the following:

- A waste
- No benefit over a lower dose such as 400mg weekly
- Increased severity of side effects in spite of no greater benefit in gains
- Ridiculously huge increases in lethargy
- Dangerous

I'm never going that high on Tren again. Totally unnecessary especially considering its strength and its anabolic:androgenic ratio. I suggest you do the same, especially considering its your first run with Trenbolone...

**Lunk1** · 12-15-2012, 06:28 PM

I agree...I had to follow Atomini in to the pits of Hell bu bumping to 750...I will def go back to my standard 500 and I may even drop before I'm done with the current as I agree it seems like a waste...I have notice NO added gains but plenty of added sides

**stpete** · 12-15-2012, 06:33 PM

Very knowledgeable and experienced users giving you sound advice. My whole theory behind test is this:

You just want enough test to keep things "active". Well, that's ok i guess. But why not have enough not to only keep you active, but to keep the appetite up and other relative things that test does for a man? does that make any sense? Let me break it down like this. Once you start using synthetic your body recognizes it. It automatically shuts itself down. That's the human body doing a little self preservation. It's a wonderful thing. so wouldn't it stand to reason we would need more test w/a compound like tren to keep our normal, everyday life as close to "normal" as possible? I have done tests on this using myself as a guinea pig. Not that it was my intention, just happened that way. I have ran no test w/tren, a little test w/tren, and more test w/tren. I like the combo of a little more test than tren for the reasons i spoke of above. That being said, if going into comp, more tren is absolutely the way to go. For the everyday user, no. The sides and gains just aren't justifiable.

Just my .02.

**ironbeck** · 12-15-2012, 07:15 PM

good luck

**KimboHalfSlice** · 12-15-2012, 09:07 PM

OK side-effects starting to slowly creep in. And I don't think they're from the Testosterone (coz I've run Testosterone over a gram for weeks on end before)

I'm just after waking up from a strange dream. I was dreaming within a dream, I went about 5 or 6 levels deep, and each time I awoke from a dream, I had the choice of going back in. Never experienced that before. Also, when I finally did wake up, I had two missed calls and one text message on my phone, even though my phone was less than a metre away on full volume. That's extremely irregular for me, I'm usually a very light sleeper.

I wouldn't say that I have fatigue (believe me, I know what fatigue is like, it's horrendous, especially when you have work to go to), but I do have the urge to take naps regularly throughout the day, and I'm sleeping maybe 12 to 14 hours per day.

My pulse feels fine, no faster than normal. I've no way of checking my blood pressure so I might use one of those machines at the pharmacy tomorrow to see what readings I get.

I've stopped my "f***ing around" phase though. My front-loading is done. My body has a ridiculously high amount of Tren and Test in it right now, so I can go to the gym safe in the knowledge that I'm getting the most bang for my buck.

I last injected on Thursday, and it's now Saturday.

I think I'll leave it until Monday until I enter the following routine:

Sustanon : 1cc every 3 days (works out at 583mg per week)
Trenbolone : 1cc every 3 days (works out at 466mg per week)

How does that sound?

As regards Prolactin and it rendering me impotent, I'm not concerned. I'm not in a relationship and I very rarely have sex. In fact I could do with a break from my dick.

Also, if I choose to run an AI along with hCG during cycle, what dosages would you suggest? I hear a little water retention from the Testosterone can be good. But as for the hCG, I was thinking 80 IU every day (works out at 560 IU per week).

Also, another thing, I don't lose hair and I don't grow tits no matter how high I run my Testosterone.

**stpete** · 12-15-2012, 10:06 PM

That's better but you need to pin EOD. and that's preferable for your cycle. not e3d.

250iu's hcg twice a week.

You're not really in touch w/test. I have no issues w/test either, this is why i run it rather high. 800-1,000mgs is normal for me. Yes, i've had many, many cycles and i don't recommend a huge dose for just anyone but it's the best AAS out there w/minimal sides. how can you go wrong?

**Ashop** · 12-15-2012, 10:08 PM

I've ran similar dosages in the past with great success,,but ultimately learned I didnt need that quite of a massive dosage for gains myself.

**KimboHalfSlice** · 12-15-2012, 10:37 PM

Why should I be injecting EOD instead of every 3rd day. Sustanon has 4 esters in it, plus Tren E is a long ester. Surely once every 3 days is fine, no?

**ma_fighter** · 12-16-2012, 04:48 AM

StPete probably figured you're using Ace, you'll be fine doing E3D injects.

I just thought I'd add my 2 cents on frontloading.

Lets just for discussions sake say you got gear (test) with an ester thats got exactly 7days halflife, and you want to run it at 1000mg/week.
So, if you do 1000mg in your first shot, by week 2, half of that is left, when you do another shot, so the total Test in your body will be 1500mg, by week three half of that is left (750mg) plus your third shot = 1750mg etc..
However, if you double the first dose, and do 2000mg in your first shot, by week two you have 1000mg left, add your normal dose of 1000mg and end up with 2000mg, the same as week 1, and bloodlevels should be more or less stable alredy.

I'll demonstrate with a chart

Week............ No front loading...................Frontloading
1 ....................................1000mg........ .......................2000mg
2.................500+1000mg= 1500mg..........1000+1000mg= 2000mg
3.................750+1000mg= 1750mg..........1000+1000mg= 2000mg
4.................875+1000mg= 1875mg..........1000+1000mg= 2000mg
5.................937+1000mg= 1937mg..........1000+1000mg= 2000mg
6.................968+1000mg= 1968mg..........1000+1000mg= 2000mg

etc.

There's no need to do insane amounts of a compound to front it, if your purpose is to reach stable blood levels.

Also, I'd run an AI along with that if I was increasing test dosage above normal, while running tren .
Not a decision based on experience, but based off of Atomini's posts regarding Tren sides and elevated Estrogen levels.

Anyways, GL m8

/Maf

**Lunk1** · 12-16-2012, 07:32 AM

The reason to consider injecting EOD is the blend test. It has short esters that have a short half life and to take FULL advantage of the shrt esters and to maintain the most stable blood levels it should be injected EOD.

Everyone thinks that blend tests are great because they have some of everything, they can be if used correctly!

**--->>405<<---** · 12-16-2012, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by Almond

In fact I could do with a break from my dick.

LMAO!!! theres gotta be somewhere we can put this!

**Lunk1** · 12-16-2012, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

LMAO!!! theres gotta be somewhere we can put this!

That doesnt's sound good either lol

**--->>405<<---** · 12-16-2012, 10:27 AM

haha .. funny fellow

**Far from massive** · 12-16-2012, 10:37 AM

I wouldn't say that I have fatigue (believe me, I know what fatigue is like, it's horrendous, especially when you have work to go to), but I do have the urge to take naps regularly throughout the day, and I'm sleeping maybe 12 to 14 hours per day.

Did you really consider this statement before you typed it? Most would call an unexplained need to sleep 12-14 hrs a day with the urge to nap regularly fatigue.

PS No insult intended just trying to point out that you are likely experiencing some fatigue from the dosages.

**KimboHalfSlice** · 12-16-2012, 11:44 AM

Even when I'm not on juice, I'll regularly sleep 12 hours if I'm left uninterrupted. I've always been this way. I exhibit some symptoms of hypomania such as hypersexuality (hence my comment about not minding taking a break from my dick) so that might explain why I sleep so much.

Fatigue, on the other hand, is torture. That feeling when you've to peel yourself out of bed when you just want to crawl into the fetal position. Even worse when you're sitting at a desk in work and you go spend your lunch break taking a nap in the supply closet.

I want this cycle to be clean clean clean. No fat, no water. Just muscle. That's why I thought I should run Sustanon at 100mg per week. I'm not a bodybuilder, I'm just your average Joe who wants to put some hard muscle on (for vanity, for self-defense, and for the social aspect to it).

I don't do bulking cycles and then cutting cycles. I just aim to put on more muscle without fat and without water.

So what do you reckon about running the Sustanon low at 100mg per week?

**Lunk1** · 12-16-2012, 11:59 AM

I would bump it to 200mg which is still in the higher TRT dose area...thats me..I run mine at 250mg EW

**KimboHalfSlice** · 12-16-2012, 12:35 PM

So how about this, one injection every 3 days:

Sustanon 100mg, Tren E 250mg

This works out at 233mg of Sustanon per week, and 583mg of Tren E per week.

Quick question: Will the Tren not stimulate my appetite alone without the need for a high dose of Testosterone ? I'm curious as to why so many people are advocating that I take more Testosterone?

Also, what does the A:A ratio of Trenbolone have to do with anything?

**Lunk1** · 12-16-2012, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Almond

So how about this, one injection every 3 days:

Sustanon 100mg, Tren E 250mg

This works out at 233mg of Sustanon per week, and 583mg of Tren E per week.

Quick question: Will the Tren not stimulate my appetite alone without the need for a high dose of Testosterone ? I'm curious as to why so many people are advocating that I take more Testosterone?

Also, what does the A:A ratio of Trenbolone have to do with anything?

Tren often times causes ppl to not want to eat...not my case but some!
I like those doses alot!

Some ppl prefer higher test (like Stpete) and they are not wrong either. It's a matter of preference and finding what works best for you. You will have great gains either way but how you run your test may effect sides and your generel overall feeling. There is not a right or wrong...just a preference based on experience!

The A/A ratio has a TOn do do with your dosage decision. Consider that Tren is believed to be 5X as strong of an adrogen then test and therefore using that standard 500mg of tren is liken to 1 gram of test!

I still say that Sus should be injected EOD or go with Tren E!

**Atomini** · 12-16-2012, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

Tren often times causes ppl to not want to eat...not my case but some!
I like those doses alot!

Some ppl prefer higher test (like Stpete) and they are not wrong either. It's a matter of preference and finding what works best for you. You will have great gains either way but how you run your test may effect sides and your generel overall feeling. There is not a right or wrong...just a preference based on experience!

The A/A ratio has a TOn do do with your dosage decision. Consider that Tren is believed to be 5X as strong of an adrogen then test and therefore using that standard 500mg of tren is liken to 1 gram of test!

I still say that Sus should be injected EOD or go with Tren E!

Correction: 500mg of Trenbolone is the equivalent in strength of 2,500mg of Testosterone .

People just do not realize how strong Trenbolone truly is. You don't need nearly as much as you think you do when it comes to Tren.

**Lunk1** · 12-16-2012, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Atomini

Correction: 500mg of Trenbolone is the equivalent in strength of 2,500mg of Testosterone .

People just do not realize how strong Trenbolone truly is. You don't need nearly as much as you think you do when it comes to Tren.

Yes...sorry! Long ass day Atomini is right! Why I couldnt add 5X500 I have noooo idea

**--->>405<<---** · 12-16-2012, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

Yes...sorry! Long ass day Atomini is right! Why I couldnt add 5X500 I have noooo idea

i might be able to compile a list of potentials if u like??

**Lunk1** · 12-16-2012, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

i might be able to compile a list of potentials if u like??

Good thing my E2 levels are controlled or I would cry

**KimboHalfSlice** · 12-16-2012, 08:51 PM

@Atomini

I read your thread from start to finish about Trenbolone . Now admittedly, I realise I've taken way too f***ing much of it this week and so I'm not gonna inject ANYTHING for a couple of days. I was just too eager to get my gains going and was over-zealous.

When I did my first ever cycle of Sustanon alone at approximately 600mg per week, I put on a lot of bloat (fat, water). I don't want that this time.

If I want to look absolutely shredded, and put on nothing but lean muscle, what would you recommend for my Testosterone dosage?

Here's what I suggested above, but maybe I should run the Testosterone even lower, maybe?

So how about this, one injection every 3 days:

Sustanon 100mg, Tren E 250mg

This works out at 233mg of Sustanon per week, and 583mg of Tren E per week.

Just as an aside, I read the following on a different forum, and would like to know if you think it's true:

"Testosterone is manufactured in the Leydigs cells of the testes (in men) and the adult male produces between 2.5 and 11mgs of test per day."